Out With Drop Tables! In With Token System.

[Starmachine24]

Just say no to Fokens(intentional misspell).  RNG is good and bad, we have all experinced both its sides.  But as humans we tend to remember the bad stuff more than the good stuff.  I got all my Nekros frame parts in 3 runs exactly.  But it took many a run to get all Ash and Volt parts. 

 

I think in Warframe, its better to go after several different Warframes at once.  If you just defeated Hek BP or BP, move on to say Raptor and see what BP drops from there.  It keeps things fresh and interesting.  Already have all the warframes you want? 

 

Then hitch rides to the Void and just help other players out.  Maybe you will get rewarded with a Prime part you did not want but did not have and could always use later. 

 

Basicly, stop trying to farm one thing over and over, and just mix things up.  You will get everything you want in time if you play it in moderation and maybe it will not feel like a grind.

You sir are completely right about whatt you said there.

 

When i feel like its to much of an hassle to get said part for an example: latron prime, i play some other missions awhile and then start at another go trying to get that piece.

 

The reason why so many of the prime weapons feel like a grind is that you try so hard to get the specific prime weapon or other stuff and when you don't get it after said times it's start to feel more and more like a grind.

 

Also im against a token based system.

As i feel that would take out the fun of being surprised that you finally got that part you wanted from a T2 void instead of a T3 where the part is much more common. (happend to me with latron receiver)

 

Edit: spelling fixes

Edited September 24, 2013 by Starmachine24

[Relkin]

With this, I could someday have my flow....hundreds of hours and still no flow T__T  SOMEDAY

[Jedriden]

Yes please. I support this fully.

[shinydunsparce]

 Well, to be honest, my idea revolves around not trying to cut all the grind out - because in the long run it is a lot of necessary fat to keep us wolves chewing through something. 

 

 Even if a token system is added there is an extremely high likeliness DE will ensure that at least a certain amount of grind exists even using that.

 

  

 In a roundabout sort of way my idea isn't too far off from a token shop anyhow. Only difference is that my 'shop' is just a Transmute feature with a more direct purpose and my 'tokens' are just the BPs people already end up with a ton of anyway.

 

If they're so similar, why add unneeded convolution?

[Jhakoon]

"Tokens are for subways and some pinball and arcade games."

 

-Mark Jacobs

 

 

...'nuff said.

[Tei_S]

Again, I say this: Why completely rebuild a system that is not inherently broken, when you can just fix the things that are wrong with it?

 

I also love how the term grind trap gets thrown around when Warframe has such a light grind/farm compared to a majority of other games. I feel like because Warframe has attracted such a vastly different audience than those games, that people complain about a system that isn't nearly as bad as it could be, as if it were the worst thing in the world. I feel like, at the end of the day, people won't care what actually gets implemented so long as they get their precious items. I can't help but wonder what the players from Asia think of this issue.

 

But again, the RNG is actually quite forgiving, compared to the abysmal >1% drop rates of other games.  RNG is NOT "bad," it just needs to be "smart." Everything will fall on a bell curve eventually, but there have to be per-player checks and stops to make sure a person doesn't get the "unlucky" (a comical term to use here, in all honesty. different people have different goals, etc)  end of the spectrum several hundred times or however many times is appropriate by whatever arbitrary standard gets used.

 

A token system, as said, removes the element of failure from the game. You will always get what you want, every single time, no matter what. The only limiter is time.... which would, by the way, necessitate more grinding to balance out the value of the items. Other fallbacks are necessary than just "NAH M8 DON'T WORRY YOU'LL GET IT JUST KEEP TRYING" or "NAH M8 JUST SAVE UP FOR 3 WEEKS TO GET IT."

 

I am traditionally a very unlucky person in every single f2p game I've ever played. Warframe is the one game where I don't feel like I'm getting held back because of RNG. It was only after the introduction of the clantech materials (mutagen, detonite, etc etc) that I started to suffer with drop rates on high-value materials, which was soon fixed anyway, with the exception of Neurodes, which now have another, far more reliable source anyway. The void was never an issue because I enjoy the void, and because I got everything fairly quickly. In fairness, I wound up spending somewhere around 1-2k of my founder's plat on both void keys and forma (mostly forma) for my friends and clan in the first week of u8, but still. I've only hit a "wall" with the new void stuff because I'm just not as interested in it. I'm not going out of my way to get keys nor do I have the platinum to buy any. Lord knows I'm not going to run public, either. I hate running public missions, because I just hate people.

 

So yeah. Got sidetracked, but that's what I have to say. RNG is not inherently bad, people are just frustrated and want their items.

[SoloCreep]

No.

[CriticalVoid1]

Signed!

 

-CJ

[Hyxin]

Token systems kill games for me.

 

Grinding for tokens is so boring it's a slow and stale progress, while grinding for rngbased loottables aren't optimal atleast i get that feel that maybe just maybe i'll get that drop i want and that makes it worth it even if i have to run the mission just as much or more then a token based system.

[shinydunsparce]

Token systems kill games for me.

 

Grinding for tokens is so boring it's a slow and stale progress, while grinding for rngbased loottables aren't optimal atleast i get that feel that maybe just maybe i'll get that drop i want and that makes it worth it even if i have to run the mission just as much or more then a token based system.

 

Why do people keep thinking the 2 are mutually exclusive? There can still be random drops / rewards in addition to a token system. 

[ComCray]

I'm all for tokens... I've seen several f2p titles picking this up and it works fine (mainly TCG games but hey).

However... If tokens are going to behave like currently a lot of stuff in our inventory (you know THEY DISAPPEAR) I'm not sure that's the way foreward.. Last thing I want is to go to the token-shop only to find me 375 tokens turned into -26 tokens... That would SO wreck my [keyboard/screen/mouse/anything -else-I-can-get-my-hands-on]...

And yes, I AM going to nag about DISAPPEARING ITEMS any chance I get until they fix this.

Edited September 24, 2013 by ComCray

[Ketec]

I wond bother readign all the posts... but major problem:

Most maps, missions are worthless.

 

If all i get is tokens to trade with... ill most likely get bored soon and stop playing withing  a month or two.

[plznohurtme]

Since I highly dislike the repetitive grind to get a chance to roll dive that may never be in my favour, and I much rather have tangible, even if slow, progress towards a goal, I highly approve of a token system. It has been mentioned before, but the response of "We're looking into it." seems rather hollow if down the line we are getting Droprate Fiasco v2.0 instead.

This is exactly the type of thing a lot of us do not want however. A token system takes any chance of out it and turns the game into a managed grind fest and nothing else. You're in the hands of what the developer wants and how much of it they want you to experience. Perhaps you have some specific idea of a token system implementation that I haven't seen yet? If so I haven't seen anything detailed as of yet.

I'm a fan of having a safety net on the RNG for the unlucky people, but if RNG was to be taken out of the game there's no reason left to play at that point for me. I do not want to feel like I have to do something x number of times to get whatever I want. Sometimes I just want to give it a go a couple of times and try my luck sometimes it's good, sometimes not (example: me and a friend went to try to get paris prime last night and did perhaps 7-8 total missions and got 3/4 pieces). I don't want to have that turn into "we have to do this mission x times to get enough tokens for the reward".

On the flip side there should be something put in as a maximum safety net, and quite frankly Blatantfool's idea for a transmutation type process seems like a good idea (though personally I'd have it set to allow a maximum discount of 100%).

PS: People who keep thinking transmutation is a bad idea should actually read his post (I was guilty of this at first glance too) he's talking about it in a literal transmute x into y, not RNG transmute x into good luck!

[War-Zone]

I'm inclined to agree with the OP. My GF and I have really been enjoying this game but after trying to farm Frost prime for the last month or so, and Mag Prime since it's release we're almost ready to stop playing all together due to the consistent disappointment of RNG here.

[xenapan]

This is exactly the type of thing a lot of us do not want however. A token system takes any chance of out it and turns the game into a managed grind fest and nothing else. You're in the hands of what the developer wants and how much of it they want you to experience. Perhaps you have some specific idea of a token system implementation that I haven't seen yet? If so I haven't seen anything detailed as of yet.

I'm a fan of having a safety net on the RNG for the unlucky people, but if RNG was to be taken out of the game there's no reason left to play at that point for me. I do not want to feel like I have to do something x number of times to get whatever I want. Sometimes I just want to give it a go a couple of times and try my luck sometimes it's good, sometimes not (example: me and a friend went to try to get paris prime last night and did perhaps 7-8 total missions and got 3/4 pieces). I don't want to have that turn into "we have to do this mission x times to get enough tokens for the reward".

On the flip side there should be something put in as a maximum safety net, and quite frankly Blatantfool's idea for a transmutation type process seems like a good idea (though personally I'd have it set to allow a maximum discount of 100%).

PS: People who keep thinking transmutation is a bad idea should actually read his post (I was guilty of this at first glance too) he's talking about it in a literal transmute x into y, not RNG transmute x into good luck!

The problem is with the current drop system... the only piece that matters is the LAST piece. usually the lowest drop %. cause take miter for example.. you can kill lech adn vor 50 times, get 100 bps off them. it really doesnt matter how many of the other 3 pieces of miter you have.... its just the blade that matters. essentially blade = the only one that matters and all the other pieces are worthless (cause you will have a dozen+ of each other piece farming for blade)

[Pisirk]

A system that rewards people for their efforts and not troll the hardcore players...

 

Lucky players: "No thanks, current system works fine"

Average players: " You have my interest, give me more details"

Unfortunate soul: " Omg dis is a dream come tru. Plox dew it."

[rangeless]

you know there's an easier idea.

 

1. Keep old drop tables.

 

2. For those that have probably done the same thing 50 times, add a token system which exchanges a large amount of spare items to get the missing piece. For example, 30 Frost Prime Chassis for 1 Frost Prime Blueprint.

 

I think this way both lucky players and grinders will benefit and if the 2nd option makes the game too easy, please remind yourself the hardest warframe to acquire and ask yourself, why would you want anyone to endure 1 more minute of attempting to get that nonexistent systems... RNG is RNG but nobody deserves to farm 20+ hours to get just one simple warframe because that is how much time it took me to get the regular Frost parts.

Edited September 25, 2013 by rangeless

[Loswaith]

Again, I say this: Why completely rebuild a system that is not inherently broken, when you can just fix the things that are wrong with it?

 

I also love how the term grind trap gets thrown around when Warframe has such a light grind/farm compared to a majority of other games. I feel like because Warframe has attracted such a vastly different audience than those games, that people complain about a system that isn't nearly as bad as it could be, as if it were the worst thing in the world. I feel like, at the end of the day, people won't care what actually gets implemented so long as they get their precious items. I can't help but wonder what the players from Asia think of this issue.

...

Honestly just because things do it worse doesnt mean it isn't bad.  If it was the case one person killing another is forgivable because of serial killers killing many.

 

Token systems kill games for me.

 

Grinding for tokens is so boring it's a slow and stale progress, while grinding for rngbased loottables aren't optimal atleast i get that feel that maybe just maybe i'll get that drop i want and that makes it worth it even if i have to run the mission just as much or more then a token based system.

I hate to tell you but you are already grinding tokens in warframe, though warframe calls them resources rather than tokens.

 

 

This is exactly the type of thing a lot of us do not want however. A token system takes any chance of out it and turns the game into a managed grind fest and nothing else. You're in the hands of what the developer wants and how much of it they want you to experience. Perhaps you have some specific idea of a token system implementation that I haven't seen yet? If so I haven't seen anything detailed as of yet.

I'm a fan of having a safety net on the RNG for the unlucky people, but if RNG was to be taken out of the game there's no reason left to play at that point for me. I do not want to feel like I have to do something x number of times to get whatever I want. Sometimes I just want to give it a go a couple of times and try my luck sometimes it's good, sometimes not (example: me and a friend went to try to get paris prime last night and did perhaps 7-8 total missions and got 3/4 pieces). I don't want to have that turn into "we have to do this mission x times to get enough tokens for the reward".

On the flip side there should be something put in as a maximum safety net, and quite frankly Blatantfool's idea for a transmutation type process seems like a good idea (though personally I'd have it set to allow a maximum discount of 100%).

PS: People who keep thinking transmutation is a bad idea should actually read his post (I was guilty of this at first glance too) he's talking about it in a literal transmute x into y, not RNG transmute x into good luck!

You do realise Blatantfool's idea is a token system?  Pay 4+ parts (tokens) + credits (again a different token) for what you want.  (few people are against RNG and tokens)

 

We are already in the hands of the developer because they set drop rates as well, however the difference is they can set a token system to be "this frame is worth 10 runs" or "this part has 10% drop rate so it should take about 10 runs", the first is they know for certain that it takes 10 runs to get it, the secondary there is no certainty.

[StrangeCandy]

GIVE ME TOKENS OR GIVE ME DEATH

(or just bloody do something with the RNG)

[plznohurtme]

You do realise Blatantfool's idea is a token system?  Pay 4+ parts (tokens) + credits (again a different token) for what you want.  (few people are against RNG and tokens)

 

We are already in the hands of the developer because they set drop rates as well, however the difference is they can set a token system to be "this frame is worth 10 runs" or "this part has 10% drop rate so it should take about 10 runs", the first is they know for certain that it takes 10 runs to get it, the secondary there is no certainty.

You say few people are against RNG and tokens, however the "token" system everyone in this thread has been championing is doing away with the RNG system and replacing it with a token system. This is what we don't want to have happen, and quite frankly the fact that so many people seemingly want it concerns me, because I like this game and don't want to have it ruined.

Right now we're in the developers hands from a relative standpoint, however it's impossible to gauge how much time it will actually take which is both the good and bad part of the current system. This is why the suggestion is to put some sort of upper bounds on how long it should take rather than making it a set number. Personally I'd rather it started at a bigger number than just four, but the overall concept is the right idea to use rather than scrubbing RNG and replacing it with tokens.

[Darkseal]

+1

[Vabla]

But but if they add tokens it will be impossible to do over 200 runs without getting what you want!

And people might start getting something out of helping others with places that they already got loot from!

 

I say the life of a space ninja needs to be cruel, frustrating and alienating. And so should the interactions between the cool space ninja and the ones still working on their trophy collection.

[Ced23Ric]

This is exactly the type of thing a lot of us do not want however. A token system takes any chance of out it and turns the game into a managed grind fest and nothing else.

 

93 runs to get Nova Systems

57 runs to get Frost Prime Systems.

46 runs to get Rhino Systems.

Over 50 Void Keys to Braton Prime.

 

Tell me this is not an unmanaged grindfest because you or some others got lucky on the diceroll. Tell it to people who ran and still run for Blaze and Hammershot at 1.05% drop chance. Tell it to the people who are still trying, after fixed drop rates, to get a Dakra Prime Blade. How cynical does one have to be to be against a tangible, transparent system because one rather takes the chance with an arbitrary, uncaring randomized system, and defend it because one is so deep in the Skinner Box that an RNG system (that does not care about your efforts. At all. Ever.) is preferrable to having clear input for clear output?

 

My apologies for these blunt words, but you are might be a victim of endorphine conditioning.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Ced23Ric

[WanderoftheAether]

This would save me hours trying to get that one certain kind of void key of a certain tier that would net me highest chance to get that certain item.

Doubt it would happen though. If we can get what we want faster, then we would play less and if we play less we would not spend as much platinum on keys, which would mean less money to DE.

 

Its a nice suggestion though, seen it before, I fully support it.

I personally LOVE the idea, but i dont think they'll implement it thought.

(i hope i just jinxed them to do it.)

[jubling]

Tokens would be like credits. A controlled distribution to players, who accumulate it over time. We can see where credits have gotten us.

 

+1 however to these ideas (underlined):

 

Defense wouldn't be as bad if they at least extended the system they already have in place and had higher tiers than tier 3 which would slowly start dumping the bad items until like tier 10 when you'd have nothing but rare mods, tier 3 keys, that faction's banshee part, and whatever nice loot they'd like to have in there.  Maybe start introducing the rarer nightmare mods at high tiers?  It shouldn't take them long to implement and it'd make doing really well in defenses and making it to high waves mean something.

 

 

you know there's an easier idea.

 

1. Keep old drop tables.

 

2. For those that have probably done the same thing 50 times, add a token system which exchanges a large amount of spare items to get the missing piece. For example, 30 Frost Prime Chassis for 1 Frost Prime Blueprint.

 

I think this way both lucky players and grinders will benefit and if the 2nd option makes the game too easy, please remind yourself the hardest warframe to acquire and ask yourself, why would you want anyone to endure 1 more minute of attempting to get that nonexistent systems... RNG is RNG but nobody deserves to farm 20+ hours to get just one simple warframe because that is how much time it took me to get the regular Frost parts.