I Give Up, Some Does More Ap Dps Than Even Flux

[ChaoticVice777]

I'll have to get my hands on a Synapse and throw some Forma at it before they change things too much.

 

Synapse definitely looks better than Soma damage wise, but that ~25m range hurts. I've done some measurements, and by the time I'm missing more than half of my aimed shots with Soma, targets are 140-150m away. Granted, this range is very rarely necessary, but it's there.

 

I'm not worried about the 25 meter range, especially since I'm used to the Flux Rifle. The hard 25 meter range restriction is still sufficient for most purposes. I'm more worried about the accuracy, although the beam seems to have 100% accuracy (even if it doesn't look like it) in videos.

 

EDIT: Also, it looks like the Synapse might need to wait for Armor 2.0, as the Flux Rifle does the advantage of innate armor ignoring damage.

Edited September 23, 2013 by ChaoticVice777

[Saenol]

EDIT: Also, it looks like the Synapse might need to wait for Armor 2.0, as the Flux Rifle does the advantage of innate armor ignoring damage.

 

Depending on exactly how these boosted double crits people are reporting work, Synapse could still be delivering more damage.

 

That's most of the reason why I want to build one; I love testing seemingly anomalous things.

[Patzer]

 

Where did you get this information Synapse being better than Soma unless there is some hidden mechanic?

 

"Perfect" Synapse Build

• Cryo Rounds
• Hammer Shot
• Hellfire
• Piercing Hit
• Point Strike
• Serration
• Split Chamber
• Vital Sense

DPS

12560.136

Details

Name :: Synapse

Magazine Size :: 100

Total Ammo :: 640

Crit Chance :: 125%

Crit Damage Multiplier :: 560%

Fire Rate :: 10 rounds per second

Reload Time :: 1.5 seconds

Damage :: 213.987

Damage Shields :: 270.631

Damage Corpus :: 427.975

Damage Grineer :: 213.987

Damage Infested :: 270.631

Crit Damage :: 1198.33

Crit Damage to Shields :: 1515.535

Crit Damage to Corpus :: 2396.66

Crit Damage to Grineer :: 1198.33

Crit Damage to Infested :: 1515.535

Average Damage :: 1444.416

Average Damage to Shields :: 1826.761

Average Damage to Corpus :: 2888.831

Average Damage to Grineer :: 1444.416

Average Damage to Infested :: 1826.761

Damage per Mag :: 144441.562

Damage per Mag to Shields :: 182676.094

Damage per Mag to Corpus :: 288883.125

Damage per Mag to Grineer :: 144441.562

Damage per Mag to Infested :: 182676.094

DPS :: 12560.136

DPS to Shields :: 15884.878

DPS to Corpus :: 25120.272

DPS to Grineer :: 12560.136

DPS to Infested :: 15884.878

Burst DPS :: 14444.156

Burst DPS to Shields :: 18267.609

Burst DPS to Corpus :: 28888.312

Burst DPS to Grineer :: 14444.156

Burst DPS to Infested :: 18267.609

Now some interesting facts:

• The Synapse can "red crit" with a maxed Point Strike.  The number simply doesn't show as red.  Test it yourself: go fight an infested ancient with just Point Strike equipped and shoot at his lower torso from behind so as to avoid head shots.  You'll see a whole bunch of 3s and 4s with some odd 30s and 40s mixed in. Those are the 25% "red crits". Make sure you do this as the host (solo guarantees this) as all numbers are screwy when you're a client.
• Corrosive Projection dropping 30% of an enemy's armor doesn't increase the damage by 30%.  It drops the armor's numerical value by 30% which can often result in a massive damage increase against armored opponents at higher levels. This basically means it's a very good idea to bring at-least one when doing high level play until Armor/Damage 2.0 goes live.

 

 

 

This is what I got while including reloads, maybe I should do colum also for build that does not include Shred (my personal preference basically)

 

[GottFaust]

This is what I got while including reloads, maybe I should do colum also for build that does not include Shred (my personal preference basically)

 

Which mods are you assuming? The Synapse uses a very unconventional build as you can see from the quoted post.

Also: your calculations seem a bit off, what formulas are you using?

[YouHaveShamedYoFamory]

Please look at the table before you reply! This is AP DPS Vs. AP DPS, armor does not affect these portions of either weapons DPS because it is armor piercing portion of their DPS

 

Refined bit my DPS calculation sheet. Soma AP mod DPS > Flux AP mod dps+base damage dps (serrated blade)

 

 

Edit:

DAMAGE REWORK / ARMOR 2.0: Please tell me since this came up too, how do you make two weapons of same type, weapon x with 1 dps to be on par with weapon y with 2 dps with universal armor/damage rework without touching stats of these weapons? Seems like some assume that rework will magically fix everything. I'm just trying to bring attention to these things while providing mathematical proof, F*** me right?

 

Edit2:

Bonus! Damages with reload, I'm bit unsure about ammo consumption values though and maybe I should do build for Flux and Synapse that does not have Shred. (I used 1 as multiplier for those since afaik they don't benefit from fire rate bonuses)

 

Red is AP DPS

Green is raw DPS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Earris]

From what i see i am not sure if you keep in mind that Stormbringer works like another Serration for Synapse.

[Patzer]

Which mods are you assuming? The Synapse uses a very unconventional build as you can see from the quoted post.

Also: your calculations seem a bit off, what formulas are you using?

 

I got 11562 dps with you build and if I use your fire rate (Fire Rate :: 10 rounds per second) I got 12277 (yours 12560.136) I would say we are pretty close each others values. And I don't use total ammo anywhere in my formulas. I could upload my sheet somewhere if you want to take a look.

 

Edit: does this work: http://speedy.sh/3drDu/Book1.xlsx

 

Edit2: Also no formulas for "red crits" yet either or crit change going over 100%.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Patzer

[Saenol]

From what i see i am not sure if you keep in mind that Stormbringer works like another Serration for Synapse.

 

Does it though? Shouldn't Stormbringer just add another set of electrical damage?

 

Can anyone confirm that Stormbringer is increasing the weapon's base damage?

[FunkDoctaSpock]

The main problem with any weapon feedback at the moment?

 

New damage system is coming. 

 

This means that unless you didn't know that piece of information, this kind of complaining basically IS whining. The new weapons were probably made with the new system in mind, and all of this DPS is going to probably change. 

 

The Soma is also supposed to have a higher Mastery Level requirement, and Scott said that was coming. 

 

Not only that, but I think it is good for people who don't want to be part of a clan to be able to get a good weapon.

 

Finally, like before, anything you calculate damage-wise is going to probably change, so getting mad and complaining about it at the moment is useless and basically whiny. Reserve all the complaining until after the new damage system is in place. If the Soma is still that much better, then you should think about complaining, but not before. There is no point in complaining right now about damage. 

If there's no use for any sort of feedback until armor 2.0, why are you here reading the posts except to waste thread space ? Go back to the future Mcfly ... 

[SoulEchelon]

I guess some people just mistake valid feedback for whining when it disagrees with their point of view ...

 

It's not really that. It's just...everyone knows soma is powerful. We've had billions of threads about it already and DE themselves addressed it. And, as everyone else stated, Armor 2.0 is around the corner. Let's just wait until that comes before anymore input.

[TheAlfax]

To counter the OP's incredibly detailed proof, I offer you: yet more graphs.

 

 

Not everyone uses guns for their raw power. My friends use the Flux rifle because it offers pewpew, and I use the Soma because I need my daily dose of dakka.

Just use whatever you want. No need to go Bill Nye over virtual guns.

[ChaoticVice777]

To counter the OP's incredibly detailed proof, I offer you: yet more graphs.

 

 

Not everyone uses guns for their raw power. My friends use the Flux rifle because it offers pewpew, and I use the Soma because I need my daily dose of dakka.

Just use whatever you want. No need to go Bill Nye over virtual guns.

 

I counter with Battletoads.

 

/insidejoke

 

Obviously, DPS isn't everything, but it sure proves how the Soma is "fairly imbalanced", at best.

[Dasmir]

THEORICAL DPS FROM A TABLET BALBALBLABLABLABLA ! QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ !

 

thats what i read, OP dont even consider the perfect aim of the Flux...

[ChaoticVice777]

THEORICAL DPS FROM A TABLET BALBALBLABLABLABLA ! QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ !

 

thats what i read, OP dont even consider the perfect aim of the Flux...

 

And you didn't consider the above average accuracy on the Soma. Your point?

[taiiat]

we can sum this up to that Soma shoots a lot of bullets really fast, and Flux is a laser. think about it. a machine gun that shoots 652 bullets per second, compared to a 5 inch 100w Tactical Laser(theoretical, not Warframe). sure, if you just throw enough bullets at the target fast enough, you'll out damage that laser. 

 

same story like how Mech Warrior does it's weapons, Beam Lasers do great Alpha damage, but if you were to fill every single slot with a machine gun, the concatenated pebble guns all together, would have crazy DPS. 

 

whether or not either one is practical to you, is a personal preference.

 

 

 

 

as for the numbers, due to this difference between the weapons, comparing which one should be how much higher is difficult.

Edited September 24, 2013 by taiiat

[Patzer]

To counter the OP's incredibly detailed proof, I offer you: yet more graphs.

 

 

Not everyone uses guns for their raw power. My friends use the Flux rifle because it offers pewpew, and I use the Soma because I need my daily dose of dakka.

Just use whatever you want. No need to go Bill Nye over virtual guns.

 

And I use Ignis because it's freaking flame thrower but still want to know if this seemingly arbitrary DPS rollercoaster between weapons is intentional or not. I also like doing stuff like this. :)

 

 

No need to go Bill Nye over virtual guns.

 

Day = Made xD

[Dasmir]

And you didn't consider the above average accuracy on the Soma. Your point?

 

Soma is accurate but not enought to archive a 100% headshot rate like flux thats the point. Even if you hold much the soma acc is going to spread a lot missing like 10% or 20% of the bullets or doing a bodyshot.

 

Soma QQ are going to QQ, De already say isnt going to get "nerfed".

[Patzer]

Soma is accurate but not enought to archive a 100% headshot rate like flux thats the point. Even if you hold much the soma acc is going to spread a lot missing like 10% or 20% of the bullets or doing a bodyshot.

 

Soma QQ are going to QQ, De already say isnt going to get "nerfed".

 

Flux also has 25m range so Soma is infinitely more accurate beyond that point, derp. Well anyway, how would I take accuracy to DPS calculations? Because thats what I did and nothing else.

[fatpig84]

Does it really matter ?

I still won't hate my flux.

It is my to go weapon for high level infested games since it works like a huge melee sword with shred, cutting AND staggering through them. And it is even more important now for my Vauban now since I got a Bastille cap.  

 

Against ancients I just switch.

 

 

Soma is good for damage but it is NOT good for CC.

 

However OP should be using Supra as a comparison and not Flux. 

Both weapon serve similar purposes while Flux is a different ball game all together.

Edited September 24, 2013 by fatpig84

[LazyKnight]

However OP should be using Supra as a comparison and not Flux. 

Both weapon serve similar purposes while Flux is a different ball game all together.

Supra should be compared to shotguns and gorgon. Supra isn't a good rifle and shouldn't be compared to them.

[Patzer]

Does it really matter ?

I still won't hate my flux.

It is my to go weapon for high level infested games since it works like a huge melee sword with shred, cutting AND staggering through them. And it is even more important now for my Vauban now since I got a Bastille cap.  

 

Against ancients I just switch.

 

 

Soma is good for damage but it is NOT good for CC.

 

However OP should be using Supra as a comparison and not Flux. 

Both weapon serve similar purposes while Flux is a different ball game all together.

 

No one is asking you to hate your Flux! argh. This is DPS thread, no more no less. I would really appreciate if people kept it that way without derailing it. I use Ignis atm for tit sake because I like it.

[dukarriope]

Fluxra is waaaay easier to handle with Shred against large swarms of Infested, so I'm going to stick to it when I want to. Soma is not the end-all to everything, it's certainly not stopped me from using my Flux Rifle.

[fatpig84]

No one is asking you to hate your Flux! argh. This is DPS thread, no more no less. I would really appreciate if people kept it that way without derailing it. I use Ignis atm for tit sake because I like it.

 

And why do you choose to argue about the DPS ? 

If using DPS is everything, nobody will actually use the Ogris / Torid or any sniper rifle / bow for that that matter.

 

In fact if not factoring their AOE effects, Ogris and Torid are actually very very subpar in terms of DPS, Same for sniper weapons where their damage per shot is high but their DPS is just "alright" and not to mention, they need very optimal settings to maintain their one shot one kill abilities since they don't usually have too many chances.

 

Different weapons all serve different purposes. 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2013 by fatpig84

[Dasmir]

Flux also has 25m range so Soma is infinitely more accurate beyond that point, derp. Well anyway, how would I take accuracy to DPS calculations? Because thats what I did and nothing else.

 

Thats the point of theorical dps its really pointless, its like saying Supra has more dps than bratom prime but we all know supra is going to miss pretty much all the shot unless the guy is hugging the mob.

 

in other words you cant say a weapon is better only for the raw dps.

[Patzer]

And why do you choose to argue about the DPS ?

 

Because this is weapon feedback forum? I don't think it's argument either when we have two numbers and look which one is bigger. And it's only one aspect of weapon anyway.

 

 

Thats the point of theorical dps its really pointless, its like saying Supra has more dps than bratom prime but we all know supra is going to miss pretty much all the shot unless the guy is hugging the mob.

 

in other words you cant say a weapon is better only for the raw dps.

 

Was I ever saying so? I only brought up one aspect of said weapons. Never implied it makes those "best" weapons, bigger the number is.

 

 

geez you guys are tough audience...