Warframe idea

[(XBOX)M0NKEY KlNG4403]

Gheist - A frame based on ghosts/possession. Legit ghost frame. Weak af, but can hide inside other enemies. Survivability ranges from none at all with low energy, to invincible so long as there are enemies to possess. 

Abilities:

Passive: While possessing an enemy, Gheist takes no damage from enemies and does not set off laser grids.

 

1. Forced Transference. Jump into an enemy's body. While possessing enemies, possessed enemy weapons deal slightly more dmg and the host's health drains, but yours heals back to full. Activate ability again to swap hosts. If the host dies before you jump out/swap, you get hit with magnetic proc and knockdown.

Range affects possession range, efficiency/duration determines how quickly enemy hp drains, duration affects proc duration (higher stat, lower proc), strength affects dmg bonus

 

2.  Emergence. Rip free from a host, causing slash proc, knocking them down and granting you a brief moment of invulnerability and a stealth dmg bonus. If this ability kills its host, also triggers a localized fear effect and grants an additional dmg bonus against affected enemies.

Unaffected by duration, efficiency reduces cost, strength increases fear chance and fear bonus dmg, range increases fear radius

 

3. Ethereal form. Your frame becomes mostly intangible for a short time, providing high dmg resistance and a melee dmg buff, but greatly reducing gun dmg dealt. Reactivating the ability while active grants ends the resistance buff/debuff early, but inverts the bonuses for 1/4 the remaining duration.

Duration affects timer, strength affects buffs/debuffs and resistances, unaffected by range, efficiency affects cost.

 

4. Unnamed ult. After a blinding flash, become invisible to enemies and radiate a menacing aura. Enemies in the radius are affected by gas dmg/s within the aura. If an enemy dies within range, chance for them to decay, creating more auras and potentially affecting more enemies.

Strength affects gas damage, range affects radius, efficiency and duration affect ability time, decay chance unaffected by mods 

[(XBOX)Danish Chief]

Sounds interesting

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Syun Wukong said:

2.  Emergence. Rip free from a host, causing slash proc, knocking them down and granting you a brief moment of invulnerability and a stealth dmg bonus. If this ability kills its host, also triggers a localized fear effect and grants an additional dmg bonus against affected enemies.

Unaffected by duration, efficiency reduces cost, strength increases fear chance and fear bonus dmg, range increases fear radius

So, a skill that is literally useless without the need of another one? No, bad design. Merge this one with his first.

[(XBOX)M0NKEY KlNG4403]

7 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

So, a skill that is literally useless without the need of another one? No, bad design. Merge this one with his first.

You mean like limbo's stasis or rift surge? 2 abilities that are useless without the use of either his 1 or 4. It promotes synergy between Gheist's 1 and 2, that way players aren't tempted to just spam his 1. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by (XB1)Syun Wukong
Typo

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

28 minutes ago, (XB1)Syun Wukong said:

You mean like limbo's stasis or rift surge? 2 abilities that are useless without the use of either his 1 or 4. It promotes synergy between Gheist's 1 and 2, that way players aren't tempted to just spam his 1. 

Stasis and Rift Surge are NOT dependent on each other one bit. Where did you get that from? Both can function independently and synergize. Rift Surge, along the entirety of his kit, depends on the Rift.

Your proposed skill literally cannot be used without using the first one. That is NOT synergy, it's dependence. And is exactly why Wisp's original 3rd skill was overhauled. It could not be used unless you created reservoirs with her 1

Edited September 4, 2019 by (PS4)LoisGordils

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

9 hours ago, (XB1)Syun Wukong said:

Passive: While possessing an enemy, Gheist takes no damage from enemies and does not set off laser grids.

This is also not a passive, it's a trait of his first ability. Passives cannot be solely triggered by skills or require energy. They have to be constant, skill-independent abilities that can be triggered when a certain condition is met. Some can be triggered by skills, but those same passives can be triggered by other things (Ash's passive can he activated by skills like Shuriken, as well as weaponry).

[Dinosnore42]

Have you been playing Super Mario Odyssey recently, by any chance? 😄

[(XBOX)M0NKEY KlNG4403]

11 minutes ago, Dinosnore42 said:

Have you been playing Super Mario Odyssey recently, by any chance? 😄

No. Why? 

[WellIHopeThisOneWorks]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Syun Wukong said:

You mean like limbo's stasis or rift surge? 2 abilities that are useless without the use of either his 1 or 4. It promotes synergy between Gheist's 1 and 2, that way players aren't tempted to just spam his 1. 

The issue with that is limbo's 2 can effect enemies he places into his 1 or 4 retroactively. The issue with this, is why would you not rip your way out of an enemy to jump into another? Even if you don't (lets say for stealth purposes) why not still have the ability to rip out of a target by holding her one, but you just exit/jump by pressing it? I feel based on Gauss' recent design, having a frame that works off of spamming their 1 isn't to bad of a thing. (there is also the fact that you just straight up can not cast this 2 without first casting your 1, which makes it feel like the ability should be part of it).

Could replace the ability with one that replaces the enemies weapons with your own, allowing you to actually deal damage to other enemies while within their ally, instead of having a minor damage bonus that will make it just as effective as a Nyx mind control target (that being, not much at all). 

Suggestion for 4: Ghastly Visage: basically what you describe but with a description that he/she becomes a Visage of true horror, applying the effects you describe, before fading away from view and spreading lingering death to those around him/her. Maybe adding in corrosive procs to, just to exemplify the feeling of decay even further. 

Other than that, Seems very interesting, and a rather fun concept!

Edited September 4, 2019 by WellIHopeThisOneWorks

[(XBOX)M0NKEY KlNG4403]

4 minutes ago, WellIHopeThisOneWorks said:

The issue with that is limbo's 2 can effect enemies he places into his 1 or 4 retroactively. The issue with this, is why would you not rip your way out of an enemy to jump into another? Even if you don't (lets say for stealth purposes) why not still have the ability to rip out of a target by holding her one, but you just exit/jump by pressing it? I feel based on Gauss' recent design, having a frame that works off of spamming their 1 isn't to bad of a thing. (there is also the fact that you just straight up can not cast this 2 without first casting your 1, which makes it feel like the ability should be part of it).

My thoughts behind it are as follows: ghosts don't necessarily leave behind evidence of possession. Using Gheist's 1 hides his actual form within the enemy, protecting him, but also enhancing the enemy. He can hide in most enemies at will (with energy). But swapping from host to host just leaves the original a little dazed (small stagger effect) upon exit. Similar to how Limbo's stasis and surge only affect enemies in the rift, *and how you can't actually cast surge unless there IS an enemy in the rift,  Gheist's 2 can only be cast from within a host. Instead of swapping to a new host, he rips out of his current host. Violently. The shock factor here is the basis for his brief moment of invulnerability and dmg buff. If the host dies in the process, more things happen.

 

12 minutes ago, WellIHopeThisOneWorks said:

Suggestion for 4: Ghastly Visage: basically what you describe but with a description that he/she becomes a Visage of true horror, applying the effects you describe, before fading away from view and spreading lingering death to those around him/her. Maybe adding in corrosive procs to, just to exemplify the feeling of decay even further. 

I like the name, and the visual, but the reason for gas dmg/invisibility is, well, haunting. Powerful Ghosts are frightening in that they can affect the world around them without being seen. Poltergeists can move things around, certain ghosts can possess living creatures. Sometimes just being in the presence of a powerful ghost leaves you feeling sick. And you'll never see the cause of that sickness. 

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Syun Wukong said:

Gheist's 2 can only be cast from within a host

Again, only possible if casting his 1. Merge 1&2 into a tap/hold skill. It's two sides of the same coin. Exactly like Tailwind/Divebomb

[(XBOX)M0NKEY KlNG4403]

6 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Stasis and Rift Surge are NOT dependent on each other one bit. Where did you get that from? Both can function independently and synergize. Rift Surge, along the entirety of his kit, depends on the Rift.

Your proposed skill literally cannot be used without using the first one. That is NOT synergy, it's dependence. And is exactly why Wisp's original 3rd skill was overhauled. It could not be used unless you created reservoirs with her 1

Not dependent on each other, but dependent on limbo's 1 or 4, which is what I said. Additionally, like I said earlier, you can't even cast Rift Surge unless an enemy is already in the rift. Synergy and dependence are, on occasion, one and the same.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

 

6 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

This is also not a passive, it's a trait of his first ability. Passives cannot be solely triggered by skills or require energy. They have to be constant, skill-independent abilities that can be triggered when a certain condition is met. Some can be triggered by skills, but those same passives can be triggered by other things (Ash's passive can he activated by skills like Shuriken, as well as weaponry).

I'll agree here, it was really, really late for me when I was thinking about a passive. 

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Again, only possible if casting his 1. Merge 1&2 into a tap/hold skill. It's two sides of the same coin. Exactly like Tailwind/Divebomb

And again, like limbo's rift surge, they are separate abilities

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Another “directly control an enemy” frame. DE already said they aren’t going to do anything that involves that.

[(XBOX)M0NKEY KlNG4403]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Another “directly control an enemy” frame. DE already said they aren’t going to do anything that involves that.

I must have missed that. But there aren't any frames that DIRECTLY control an enemy. There are several that turn them into allies, or mess with their targeting. 

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Syun Wukong said:

Not dependent on each other, but dependent on limbo's 1 or 4, which is what I said. Additionally, like I said earlier, you can't even cast Rift Surge unless an enemy is already in the rift. Synergy and dependence are, on occasion, one and the same.

They're dependent on the Rift. Which is not a singular skill, but a whole mechanic behind the Warframe. Again, why not merge 1&2? Why so hesitant? Is it because you can't create another skill in its place? 1&2 are literally two sides of the same coin. How would it feel to have Equinox's Metamorphosis split into two ability slots? One skill for switching to Day, and the other one for Night. Silly, right? Same here. Cast 1 to get in, cast 2 to get out. Why? Merge them and put something new on the second slot.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Syun Wukong said:

And again, like limbo's rift surge, they are separate abilities

Stasis and Rift Surge are NOT two sides of the same coin, however. Your Limbo comparison is rather silly. But, I'll give it a rest. It's not like this is an official Warframe. Which, if it were, DE would merge 1&2. Guaranteed. 

[Xepthrichros]

5 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

DE already said they aren’t going to do anything that involves that

Which doesn't matter because they once did not intend to give vacuum to kubrows and kavats, but the community kept asking and eventually it happened.

They once said they will take away Itzal blink, but the community countered and eventually they decided blinks for all archwings.

Likewise for Wukong rework and Vauban. At one point they seemed like they will never do it, even made statements that suggested they are okay with the way the frames were despite community feedback, then eventually, they caved. Wukong got his. And they said on multiple times they are now relooking Vauban.

------

 

On to TC's idea. I agree with some of the comments in this thread, merge Forced Transference and Emergence together.

Then add a new skill. Maybe something which lets Gheist interact with team mates.

Friendly Ghost (placeholder) 

Gheist hitches a ride on an allied Warframe. Allied character gets Gheist's HP, armor and energy pool added to theirs for the duration of the ability, and also enjoys improved reload speed, holster speed and ability cast time animations. Gheist player surrenders directional control to the ally (hence hitching a ride) and cannot use other Gheist abilities, but can end this ability early by tapping 2 again, and can still use weapons. Visually, imagine the allied Warframe character running about as per usual, but with an ethereal silhouette of Gheist popping out of the allied Warframe (something like Nyx chaos silhouette animation). 

Potential uses of this ability might be granting an ally a larger energy pool for them to use abilities, or covering an allies' back - so if ally is busy shooting enemies in one direction and overlooks something that spawned in another direction, Gheist player has them covered. 

 

To prevent possible AFK of Gheist player while using this ability, Gheist player will stop receiving affinity if they don't deal any damage for more than 30 secs (duration debatable), and other AFK penalties may apply (like no reward at the end of wave 5 defense etc.)

[(XBOX)M0NKEY KlNG4403]

I don't dislike the idea of your friendly ghost, but maybe that should also fall under Gheist's transference. Can't think of an alternate to Emergence atm, really bad migraine.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

Which doesn't matter because they once did not intend to give vacuum to kubrows and kavats, but the community kept asking and eventually it happened.

They once said they will take away Itzal blink, but the community countered and eventually they decided blinks for all archwings.

There’s a large difference between those and being able to control any enemy. Blink and uni-vacuum are just expanding a mechanic to other things.

Possessing an enemy requires adding controls and animations to every single enemy. And there are a lot of enemies. That’s a lot of work for just one frame.

so your “well they did this so they HAVE to do this” arguement holds zero ground.

[Xepthrichros]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There’s a large difference between those and being able to control any enemy. Blink and uni-vacuum are just expanding a mechanic to other things.

Possessing an enemy requires adding controls and animations to every single enemy. And there are a lot of enemies. That’s a lot of work for just one frame.

so your “well they did this so they HAVE to do this” arguement holds zero ground.

Everything requires work. Creating Gauss animation and Mach Rush mode requires work. Creating a new walking animation for Wisp requires work. Creating Titania's fairy form requires work. Creating Grendel's ball form requires work.

You are strawmaning TC's idea to make it sound impossible to do, just to win an argument, when it could be really easy. You don't have to make enemies bullet jump. You don't have to give them new melee animations. They could literally just walk and move the same way they do now but with some minor modifications as stipulated by the TC. You don't have to add any new animations or skills. TC DID NOT say that all the enemies now, when possessed by Gheist, suddenly can double jump, bullet jump, etc. And until he says that possession actually makes enemies get all these things and a bunch of new melee combos or whatever, then there's not much work to be done except mapping the enemy's current move set to player input buttons. I've seen people achieve similar things via modding in other games - which implies this task is not as difficult as you assume it to be.

Thus, you have zero ground either. You probably just don't like TC's idea. Don't need to make random weird excuses to support your distaste.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

52 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

Everything requires work. Creating Gauss animation and Mach Rush mode requires work. Creating a new walking animation for Wisp requires work. Creating Titania's fairy form requires work. Creating Grendel's ball form requires work.

You are strawmaning TC's idea to make it sound impossible to do, just to win an argument, when it could be really easy. You don't have to make enemies bullet jump. You don't have to give them new melee animations. They could literally just walk and move the same way they do now but with some minor modifications as stipulated by the TC. You don't have to add any new animations or skills. TC DID NOT say that all the enemies now, when possessed by Gheist, suddenly can double jump, bullet jump, etc. And until he says that possession actually makes enemies get all these things and a bunch of new melee combos or whatever, then there's not much work to be done except mapping the enemy's current move set to player input buttons. I've seen people achieve similar things via modding in other games - which implies this task is not as difficult as you assume it to be.

Thus, you have zero ground either. You probably just don't like TC's idea. Don't need to make random weird excuses to support your distaste.

You’re deliberately ignoring just how much work is actually required to do that. Easily 10x the work required to make a frame.

I like the idea of possessing enemies and controlling them. But the work load is far too much for just one frame.

[(XBOX)M0NKEY KlNG4403]

I imagine it wouldn't be terribly hard to do, given most humanoid enemies act and react the exact same way. It would probably mostly be a case of configuring the ai skeletons to react to controller/keyboard input and adding a an animation or 2. But yeah, while possessing an enemy, you're not going to be able to do any parkour or double jump. If the enemy couldn't do it naturally, you won't be able to do it while possessing them. The enemy is also very slow, so while possessing them, your movement speed will take a hit.

[Xepthrichros]

16 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You’re deliberately ignoring just how much work is actually required to do that. Easily 10x the work required to make a frame.

I like the idea of possessing enemies and controlling them. But the work load is far too much for just one frame.

You are deliberately white knighting over nothing. "Too much work". They are paid to do it. And adding new frames has more potential to make them more money (cos that frame gets primed eventually too, adding a second layer of income after the initial release and just plat price) than a new game mode, or reworking old frames, or making cutscenes and lore content . 

16 hours ago, (XB1)Syun Wukong said:

I imagine it wouldn't be terribly hard to do, given most humanoid enemies act and react the exact same way. It would probably mostly be a case of configuring the ai skeletons to react to controller/keyboard input and adding a an animation or 2. But yeah, while possessing an enemy, you're not going to be able to do any parkour or double jump. If the enemy couldn't do it naturally, you won't be able to do it while possessing them. The enemy is also very slow, so while possessing them, your movement speed will take a hit.

Overall I think your frame idea sounds like an interesting alternative to Ivara. If DE makes something similar to Gheist, Gheist will definitely be a strong option for me when I am deciding what to use in my Spy missions. Plus your 4th ability does Gas damage, which I think right now no Warframe ability has that covered yet. So...  that's nice.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[(XBOX)M0NKEY KlNG4403]

27 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

Overall I think your frame idea sounds like an interesting alternative to Ivara. If DE makes something similar to Gheist, Gheist will definitely be a strong option for me when I am deciding what to use in my Spy missions. Plus your 4th ability does Gas damage, which I think right now no Warframe ability has that covered yet. So...  that's nice.

Thanks for the positive feedback!