0 Shields And Energy Drain Should Never Be Together In Nm Mode

[muccmaster]

Getting 0 shields and energy drain in nightmare mode is incredibly broken and borderline unplayable, these two mods should never be together. If you play against grineer or even corpus with these mods on good luck, you're probably not going to get very far unless you use Rhino and get enough energy together quick enough to cast Iron Skin. The  aimbot/split second shooting as soon as you come out of cover the AI has makes playing a game like this absolutely unfair and is some of the biggest BS I've ever seen in a game. Make it so these mods never can pair together and how about introducing some interesting effects to Nightmare instead of bland artificial difficulty mods?

[VegetableBasket]

I agree 100%. You're forced to shoot every enemy since you can't use powers, and you're unable to win more than one or two confrontations because your health doesn't regenerate. When I get this I just quit out and try again.

[Maou]

Imo its pretty fun, you can actually die for once xD

[Saenol]

It's Nightmare Mode, not Wet Dream Mode where they hand out rare nightmare mods for three minutes of challenge barely worthy of a tutorial.

Seriously, they already nerfed the snot out of it once; make it any easier and it and it will be a complete joke.

 

So no, I cannot agree with this suggestion.

[Ayoshi]

I'll just leave this lil' hint

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVDiaYQXBVs

[kgb_cyborg]

It's silly against Grineer, because aimbot+hitscan.

 

Reasonable difficulty vs. Corpus, and kiting galore vs. Infested.

[Liacu]

I thought it was fun against Corpus because for once I actually used proper flanking moves instead of LOLOLRUSHBANGDEAD.

Against Grineer however might be a bit problematic since it's hitscan.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Liacu

[Flaming_Snake]

Imo its pretty fun, you can actually die for once xD

 

I agree with this dude. This mode is one of the only real challenges left. Everything else is too easy.

[TheBrok3n]

I'll just leave this lil' hint

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVDiaYQXBVs

 

Are you suggesting dear sir that the tenno relearn the lost ways of gun-kata?

[Liechea]

Are you suggesting dear sir that the tenno relearn the lost ways of gun-kata?

 

I believe the term is "Gun-Fu" nonetheless. You didn't get the answer right. 

2nd Hint. It's from the Survival Event. 

[muccmaster]

It's Nightmare Mode, not Wet Dream Mode where they hand out rare nightmare mods for three minutes of challenge barely worthy of a tutorial.

Seriously, they already nerfed the snot out of it once; make it any easier and it and it will be a complete joke.

 

So no, I cannot agree with this suggestion.

Lol I love tryhards like yourself who try to look cool on the forums but alt+f4 every time they get this combo. Against Grineer it is broken and cheap due to hitscan and AI aimbot, please post a video of yourself playing this bogus setup so I can laugh as you eat your words. NM is a joke because the mods are a joke aside from these two, how about they fix broken setups like the one discussed and add some more challenging mods to the pile so NM isn't incredibly easy on one end and ridiculously broken on the other.

[HailCreation]

Personally I think it makes the round fun. 

 

Solo is annoying as hell, but nightmare mode doesn't work well for Solo any way. 

 

With others though, just stick together and rush. 

[muccmaster]

Personally I think it makes the round fun. 

 

Solo is annoying as hell, but nightmare mode doesn't work well for Solo any way. 

 

With others though, just stick together and rush. 

I guess I should of put that in my OP, yes I'm running it solo because I'm sick of awful/laggy hosts. In a party it's much easier because there's more bodies to soak up damage and you can be revived. Solo it's completely broken, but I guess that's more of the games fault for not adjusting AI settings regardless if there's 4 people in a party or 1.

[Dairkrinn]

I'm fine with that combo, it made some of my games extremely hard and exciting. That being said, with the solo and grinner factors it can be indeed too hard and unfair/frustrating.

I think the problem with Nightmare is not that, but the complete lack of risk vs rewards.

This combo grants the same reward as, for exemple, reduced gravity and timer (and/or vampire etc), which is incredibly easier.

 

I think that the way the games randomize the mods should be changed for something like this :

a system where each modificator were attributed a value (for example : no shield = 4, reduced gravity = 1, draining energy = 4, higher level enemies = 2 ...) and a nightmare could bear X values of mods (if this is 5, it could have no shield + reduced gravity as it is 4+1 = 5, but not draining energy + noshield as it would be 4+4=8).

Then we could have different difficulties of nightmares, with 1 to 8 mod values, with the more value the more rewards, exemple :

a nighmare 2 could grant 1 basic mod, a 3-4 will have a chance of a more rare mod (like blaze), and a nightmare 8 could grant 8 mods with 1 rare guaranteed, with increased credits andressources droprate.

 

Sorry if this is not very clear, english is not my native language.

[muccmaster]

^That is actually a very good idea, I doubt DE would put the effort in to create a smart system like that though.

[Saenol]

Lol I love tryhards like yourself who try to look cool on the forums but alt+f4 every time they get this combo. Against Grineer it is broken and cheap due to hitscan and AI aimbot, please post a video of yourself playing this bogus setup so I can laugh as you eat your words. NM is a joke because the mods are a joke aside from these two, how about they fix broken setups like the one discussed and add some more challenging mods to the pile so NM isn't incredibly easy on one end and ridiculously broken on the other.

 

For the record, I have never alt+f4ed or abandoned a Nightmare mission and I have multiple copies of all Nightmare mods. So, you can shove your asinine presumptions up your exhaust port.

 

I've completed no shield + energy drain nightmare missions at least three dozen times, twenty plus of those times without Rhino, almost always solo, and have failed fewer than 5% of them.

 

However, I do go into Nightmare missions prepared. Meaning as much health and armor as possible on a given frame, and weapons that kill quickly at long range.

 

Video coming soon.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Saenol

[Archistopheles]

Did anyone mention that 2-3 people with energy siphon negates energy drain?

 

Cuz, you know, it does...

[Saenol]

Video is transcoding now. Stalker jumped me in the middle of it and ruined my flow, but he died, and I completed the Grineer, no shields, no energy mission without burning any revives, despite numerous stupid mistakes and getting agitated enough to rush the second half of it.

 

Did anyone mention that 2-3 people with energy siphon negates energy drain?

 

Cuz, you know, it does...

 

Solo (well private with no one else) is the only way to Nightmare.

 

I normally don't even bother to equip any frame powers on anything but Rhino (unless it's a defense mission) when I do Nightmare mode because I gear up for the worst case scenario, which means I won't have the energy to use anything of relevance.

 

No frame powers = more room for more sensible preparations.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Saenol

[NevikEeirnb]

I think that the way the games randomize the mods should be changed for something like this :

a system where each modificator were attributed a value (for example : no shield = 4, reduced gravity = 1, draining energy = 4, higher level enemies = 2 ...) and a nightmare could bear X values of mods (if this is 5, it could have no shield + reduced gravity as it is 4+1 = 5, but not draining energy + noshield as it would be 4+4=8).

Then we could have different difficulties of nightmares, with 1 to 8 mod values, with the more value the more rewards, exemple :

a nighmare 2 could grant 1 basic mod, a 3-4 will have a chance of a more rare mod (like blaze), and a nightmare 8 could grant 8 mods with 1 rare guaranteed, with increased credits andressources droprate.

First of all, assuming I understood you Dairkrinn I think that is a fantastic idea (to have each NM modifier weighted and added together to rate the difficulty of the mission and the corresponding rewards)

As for the overall topic, I think if you have even a minority of people saying their happy with something that's difficult then you should keep it in. Warframe is a vast game with lots to do, if you find that a particular game mode combination is too difficult due to your current team, equipment or for any other reason then you don't have to play it. You can restart and get different modifiers as previously mentioned or do a different mission altogether.

I may be mistaken but to my knowledge there is nothing in Warframe that isn't completable. The prospect of having to use particular team combinations, warframes, equipment and/or strategies to complete more difficult missions excites me and you need only look at the opening cinematic with Captain Vor to infer that it's what the developers had in mind as well.

[Saenol]

As promised:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6DHXZ2Bp7E

 

Use this if the above video doesn't work correctly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6DHXZ2Bp7E - 1440p should provide the best experience.

 

Rank 28 Grineer Sabotage. Energy drain, no shield, and low grav, soloed with an Excalibur and no Sentinel. Stalker even decided to show up.

 

A pretty half-assed job in an easy mission, but it's the best I could come up with on short notice. I had to rush near the end to keep file size manageable (it was 70 gigs before transcoding). Next time they move around I'll try to get a nice high level Ceres one.

 

More examples to come.

 

please post a video of yourself playing this bogus setup so I can laugh as you eat your words.

1. Click above link.

 

2. Speak for yourself.

 

3. Bite me.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Saenol

[muccmaster]

As promised:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6DHXZ2Bp7E

 

Use this if the above video doesn't work correctly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6DHXZ2Bp7E - 1440p should provide the best experience.

 

Rank 28 Grineer Sabotage. Energy drain, no shield, and low grav, soloed with an Excalibur and no Sentinel. Stalker even decided to show up.

 

A pretty half-assed job in an easy mission, but it's the best I could come up with on short notice. I had to rush near the end to keep file size manageable (it was 70 gigs before transcoding). Next time they move around I'll try to get a nice high level Ceres one.

 

More examples to come.

 

1. Click above link.

 

2. Speak for yourself.

 

3. Bite me.

LOL! Congrats, you used stealth to get through an incredibly short and easy mission with level 30 enemies that barely spawned while using the two most overpowered weapons in the game. Because every mission is like that right? On the big maps where enemies spawn from all sides it's not that simple. I never said it was impossible, I said the two mods together when solo are broken and they still are. One incredibly easy mission that was cheesed means nothing fool, F*** off.

Edited September 28, 2013 by muccmaster

[Saenol]

Maybe you should have added the qualifier that you must play like a complete moron, then I would have known stealth (with an Excalibur and no sentinel) was somehow out of bounds.

 

The weapons I was using were specifically chosen because they are some of the most potent weapons that have a low mastery rank requirement and no special conditions to obtain. Anyone can get Kunai and Soma. My Kunai weren't even repolarized and I only used the Soma against Stalker (because I didn't feel like putting a silencer mod on it).

 

Enemies barely spawned because I never let any of them touch a console and I backtracked as little as practical. The alarm was never sounded. This was intentional, because fighting Grineer with no shields is difficult, so obviously I'd like to spawn/fight as few as possible. Being suicidal wasn't a stipulation in your earlier post.

 

I had little control over the map or mission as that was the highest rank Grineer Nightmare mission available at the time that was not a rescue, and normal rescues (due to Hostage AI) are vastly more annoying than any combination of Nightmare handicaps that has ever been in the game.

 

Zero shield and energy drain are not broken. People either play Nightmare for the challenge, or they play for the mods. If you find it frustrating rather than challenging, stay away. if you need the mods you can go to Venus, where even these handicaps are irrelevant because nothing can do any damage anyway.

 

The idea that sensible choices to maximize one's chance of success is "cheese" is utterly ridiculous. Maybe you should reevaluate your lack of preparation and unwillingness to adapt your gameplay to the requirements of the game rather than complain about the mode being "broken" and demanding that the game be tailored to yourself.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Saenol

[Makemap]

I agree about this. Energy drain should be with Timed because timer isn't even difficult at all.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Makemap

[agung.up]

<snip>

Just letting you know, saenol. People like muccmaster shouldn't be taken seriously. Whatever you do, they will still found a way to mock you. I appreciate your effort in doing the video, but I strongly advise you to back down immediately while you can. Never feed a troll.

Edited September 28, 2013 by agung.up

[NevikEeirnb]

Neither you furthering your explanation of how NM missions with zero shield and energy drain are possible to complete (you've already established that) nor paying exclusive attention to one person (not a majority on the topic) who is trolling you is in any way useful to the topic. Please stay on it.

If anybody has a better definition which might better clarify why this game mode might be broken other than "it's broken" or has a significant point to defend this game mode beyond "it's definitely completable" (As far as I can tell everybody has already agreed that it is) than I sincerely want to hear it.

Vegetable Basket mentioned "You're forced to shoot every enemy since you can't use powers".
As far as I'm concerned, depending on your Warframe your powers might not facilitate avoiding shooting enemies anyway so this is already the case in a lot of missions with certain Warframes. This might delimit some of the more stealthy Warframes but in my mind that's just the nature of the mission.
Like I said before, it takes a certain type of strategy, I see no problem with that. It also hints at the problem being with the "energy drain" being the broken element rather than the zero shield/energy drain combination which makes it a different question altogether.

I'd like to hear back from Vegetable Basket or anybody else who has an opinion on the above as I think his statement is possibly tapping into the heart of why people are becoming so impassioned about this.

Also, I apologise if the start of my post may have come off as a bit snarky but I posted here because I'm interested in improving the game and giving the most useful feedback possible to the developers. I hope that most of us care enough about the game to have a similar goal in mind whilst posting here.