So What Is The Point Of The Shield!?

[General_Krull]

Go throw that phrase around elsewhere.  I'm sick of hearing it now. 

Doesn't make it any less true.

[gell]

Go throw that phrase around elsewhere.  I'm sick of hearing it now. 

 

And it's actually pretty irrelevant so far, yet people keep using it. It's always a concern, but people may have forgotten that the increase in power (that includes things beyond damage, such as utility, mobility, defensive abilities) is not a bad thing during development. In fact, it's a good thing. Power creep is only bad when a game relies on the ever increasing power to create new content. As long as DE rebalances the old weapons, which they said they will so we'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now, there is no power creep, but only development. If anyone where I work talked about power creep during development, I'd punch them in the face. It's not even a thing during development. It's okay to totally change damage, systems, and designs before release. Designers have to be careful, but they should actually be doing a lot of it.

 

As for the OP, he's finally given a tiny bit of info on his set up, and it's starting to become clearer. Not sure which map he's playing on, but if he's trying to walk around like superman with all bullets bouncing off  his chest, he's playing the wrong game. Yes, look at my forum join date. It's earlier than the OP's. I remember how Warframe used to be. It was super super super easy. I didn't even buy more than 1-2 nodes of shields on my SKILL TREE (remember those?) because the game was suuuuuuuuuuuuper easy. The game has gotten a lot better. It's far from complete, but numbers can be worked out, and it's good the game got harder. I hope bullet sponges go away eventually, but the idea is that if you're closing your eyes and killing everything on the hardest planets, DE did something very wrong.

[Teneroth]

And it's actually pretty irrelevant so far, yet people keep using it. It's always a concern, but people may have forgotten that the increase in power (that includes things beyond damage, such as utility, mobility, defensive abilities) is not a bad thing during development. In fact, it's a good thing. Power creep is only bad when a game relies on the ever increasing power to create new content. As long as DE rebalances the old weapons, which they said they will so we'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now, there is no power creep, but only development. If anyone where I work talked about power creep during development, I'd punch them in the face. It's not even a thing during development. It's okay to totally change damage, systems, and designs before release. Designers have to be careful, but they should actually be doing a lot of it.

 

As for the OP, he's finally given a tiny bit of info on his set up, and it's starting to become clearer. Not sure which map he's playing on, but if he's trying to walk around like superman with all bullets bouncing off  his chest, he's playing the wrong game. Yes, look at my forum join date. It's earlier than the OP's. I remember how Warframe used to be. It was super super super easy. I didn't even buy more than 1-2 nodes of shields on my SKILL TREE (remember those?) because the game was suuuuuuuuuuuuper easy. The game has gotten a lot better. It's far from complete, but numbers can be worked out, and it's good the game got harder. I hope bullet sponges go away eventually, but the idea is that if you're closing your eyes and killing everything on the hardest planets, DE did something very wrong.

 

Warhammer, as much as I love it, is the classic case of power creep. Like you said, power creep is only bad if it either gets blown way out of proportion (makes game far to easy, see: World of Warcraft) or leads to the company constantly making stronger and stronger items imposing a FotM feel to the game (see: warhammer) 

 

As for the OP, hopefully he'll keep giving us information, excal is a nice frame, but it isn't exactly the sturdiest, it's better than nova or something, but won't stand to a hurricane of bullets like a Rhino will. 

 

There has been some power creep in warframe, but it has:

A- been mostly due to bugs in how weapons/skills work than actual design intent, and 

B- those frames/weapons which are intentionally stronger have brought changes to previously existing items to balance everything out (Vaubon)

[KuroAka]

I get they want to make the game harder, and that is fine. Yes the game was super easy when there was skill trees. There also was zero point to even play the game after a certain point. But going to the mod system I personally don't think was the right change. It should have been a mix of both a small tree and some mods, not all mods. But the game being changed to be made "harder" they way that DE has gone about it is just a lazy way of doing it with zero thinking at all. Making all the enemies dmg, HP, and armor all increase is just bad. How about make some better AI, make a better/ an actual stealth mechanic, maybe even a cover system. More divers enemy types. Having an actual melee combo system, make blocking actual work. It would have been one thing to improve the actual mechanics of the game, then up the enemies dmg, hp and armor. Then there is real things in the game to make the game harder and adds much more skill to playinging then how the game is now. I would love to know what your "tactics" are when your going a lvl 70 mission and there are 12+ grineer in a room. Using the same warframe that I am, and no auto weapons.

 

DE says they messed up and they are going to fix it, but as the game has changed they only make the game worse and add more and more issues that they "fix" with yet another issue. DE only seems to be full of mistakes and they are focusing on the wrong things and not actually making real improvements to the core mechanics of the game.    

[Wolfstorm18]

So I have been playing a few missions and have become extremely frustrated when I have maxed out shield and regen, but it seems to do absolutely nothing when I get hit once and the shield drops to zero. Is this a bug or did they nerf the shield to the point where it is pointless? Just wanted to know if anyone else is experiencing this. Before the patch I didn't think it was this bad, but when you spend a lot of time and mobs getting that stuff to max and now have it do nothing, its pretty frustrating.   

 

 

Thats true, one melee attack by an infested charger at any mission in Eris take half the shield out, even if you maxed it. Two melee attacks and you will already be losing health. 

[Teneroth]

I get they want to make the game harder, and that is fine. Yes the game was super easy when there was skill trees. There also was zero point to even play the game after a certain point. But going to the mod system I personally don't think was the right change. It should have been a mix of both a small tree and some mods, not all mods. But the game being changed to be made "harder" they way that DE has gone about it is just a lazy way of doing it with zero thinking at all. Making all the enemies dmg, HP, and armor all increase is just bad. How about make some better AI, make a better/ an actual stealth mechanic, maybe even a cover system. More divers enemy types. Having an actual melee combo system, make blocking actual work. It would have been one thing to improve the actual mechanics of the game, then up the enemies dmg, hp and armor. Then there is real things in the game to make the game harder and adds much more skill to playinging then how the game is now. I would love to know what your "tactics" are when your going a lvl 70 mission and there are 12+ grineer in a room. Using the same warframe that I am, and no auto weapons.

 

DE says they messed up and they are going to fix it, but as the game has changed they only make the game worse and add more and more issues that they "fix" with yet another issue. DE only seems to be full of mistakes and they are focusing on the wrong things and not actually making real improvements to the core mechanics of the game.    

 

-sigh- so this is less about shields and more about how DE makes the game more difficult?

 

Alright, DE has admitted that the current armor scaling system tends to make enemies a bit bullet spongy, and are working on armor 2.0 as a fix. 

 

improving AI is something DE also is working on, though they are likely holding off till armor 2.0 as it will also incorporate a stealth system, making it a bit of a large change which means it is unlikely to be be paired with armor 2.0, and will be the patch afterwards.

 

Stealth system will likely come with the new AI, which will be after improved armor

 

If you want cover, put a wall between you and your hostiles. if you want to glue your back to a wall with a button press go play gears of war. 

 

If you want tactics look up crash course warframe on youtube, mikeb gives great advice for a large assortment of frames. He also almost managed to solo a t3 defense mission in a Nyx, which is impressive. 

 

Mods are a part of things, deal with it, I'm hoping there will be a small mastery skill tree which will apply to all your frames and weapons, it is one of the things I have been pushing over in the concept forum, but mods, except for being screwed by RNG (I have yet to see a split chamber mod, which makes my latron prime sad) is a good system. Few people have any major complaints. If you have a reason why we should go back, if only part way, to a skill node system give an example of how it is better. Simply *@##$ing about 'the good ol' days' is not going to get you any traction.

[KuroAka]

I have said about a mix of a treeish/upgrade system that is not mods. But it got shut down, by other players. I want to see more of an RPG system, not a RNG, if I have zero life and play this game all day every day, I am just boss and know everything about the game and how to make the best build for every weapon and warframe; Like MikeB. Not everyone works at home and makes money just by playing video games all day. And what is so wrong with having a cover system? warfames are to be ninjas, sneaking around assassinating targets and using shadows and cover to do this. Not running around in the mix of massive groups of enemies trying to run and gun them all down. If you're so against a cover system then the combat, melee combat needs to be much more like Ninja Gaiden. With combos, weapon skills and much better way to get around the environment then having a stamina bar and only being able to walk run and climb.      

[greymalken]

So, to cut away the chaff, the derailings, the divergences into a half dozen things that have little to do with original post. Lets get to the Basic Question:

 

 

"So What Is The Point Of The Shield!?"

 

-It absorbs incoming damage and will refill itself given a chance, vs. HP which does not refill itself. Serves as an early warning to incoming damage (much like the pain response)

 

(If this is too confusing, try the new tutorial - accessed from your profile page in game. Lotus explains it very succinctly and even gives you an example fight)

Edited October 1, 2013 by greymalken

[KuroAka]

So, to cut away the chaff, the derailings, the divergences into a half dozen things that have little to do with original post. Lets get to the Basic Question:

 

 

"So What Is The Point Of The Shield!?"

 

-It absorbs incoming damage and will refill itself given a chance, vs. HP which does not refill itself. Serves as an early warning to incoming damage (much like the pain response)

 

(If this is too confusing, try the new tutorial - accessed from your profile page in game. Lotus explains it very succinctly and even gives you an example fight)

 

Thanks for being condescending.

[kediec]

Seeing that picking enemies off from a doorway doesn't really work since as soon as you fire a shot and it doesn't kill or do any dmg whatsoever, altho you have a dmg mob, armor piercing and puncture with multishot. The enemies rush, or there are just so many in one area that no matter where you go moving and shooting your going to die no matter what. Maybe the issue is that I play mostly solo and since there is zero scaling and with this awfully bad implementation of what DE thinks is making the game harder. Its only making me fed up yet again.    

 

(I'm gonna bite and feed a pie to the OP)

 

Maybe your problem lies in aiming ?

 

Not trying to be funny, but this is so over exaggerated, it reached all the way from Mercury to Pluto ( and beyond).

 

As a new player I took Mag as my first frame (before i spent money supporting DE) and the only time i have died is from my own stupidity of thinking " yeah, i can just rush those, it's only 7 or so" , yet not seeing the reinfrocements hiding around elsewhere.

I regularly thin the enemy ranks from doorways, and run from cover to cover while using my frame abilities and giving my shield chance to regen (yes, this does indeed actually work and help you survive).

 

Maybe if you gave some specifics to the questions asked, instead of trying to dodge it and just saying " whaaa , it's too hard i just die" in every response, you may get better help.

 

So far i have had zero problem playing solo on Mag / Loki / Excalibur / Trinity / Saryn or Rhino ( yes, i bought them cause i like the game:P )

 

My 2 cents anyway as a new comer with only about 40 hours game time to my name.

[TurboPorridge]

And it's actually pretty irrelevant so far, yet people keep using it. It's always a concern, but people may have forgotten that the increase in power (that includes things beyond damage, such as utility, mobility, defensive abilities) is not a bad thing during development. In fact, it's a good thing. Power creep is only bad when a game relies on the ever increasing power to create new content. As long as DE rebalances the old weapons, which they said they will so we'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now, there is no power creep, but only development. If anyone where I work talked about power creep during development, I'd punch them in the face. It's not even a thing during development. It's okay to totally change damage, systems, and designs before release. Designers have to be careful, but they should actually be doing a lot of it.

 

As for the OP, he's finally given a tiny bit of info on his set up, and it's starting to become clearer. Not sure which map he's playing on, but if he's trying to walk around like superman with all bullets bouncing off  his chest, he's playing the wrong game. Yes, look at my forum join date. It's earlier than the OP's. I remember how Warframe used to be. It was super super super easy. I didn't even buy more than 1-2 nodes of shields on my SKILL TREE (remember those?) because the game was suuuuuuuuuuuuper easy. The game has gotten a lot better. It's far from complete, but numbers can be worked out, and it's good the game got harder. I hope bullet sponges go away eventually, but the idea is that if you're closing your eyes and killing everything on the hardest planets, DE did something very wrong.

 

This is good information.  

 

I am definately getting annoyed in seeing people throw it around.  they seem to be doing it just to increase a post count, see a thread about any sort of damage and BAM power creep power creep etc.  

[Phoenix86]

Its clear to me that this thread isn't someone trying to get assistance about a problem with gameplay, its merely a rant disguised as a call for help to get more attention.

 

I'm done.

 

^ this

[Bazools]

They AREN'T viable for all levels.

 Agreed!

[Bazools]

I can solo t3 exterm with any frame

 

So is T3 Ext the hardest thing for u in the game!? Jeezus... If u said do a T3 Defense solo i would kinda get ur back but EXT!? Jeezus!

[LordMidnightX]

So is T3 Ext the hardest thing for u in the game!? Jeezus... If u said do a T3 Defense solo i would kinda get ur back but EXT!? Jeezus!

exterm missions are one of the few besides defense that require you to actually fight the enemies. I have soloed much harder missions as well but usually I just rushed past them all.

[kevbob]

For one it shouldn't matter what warframe I'm use, they should all be viable to play the game with. One should not be better or worse than any other. It should also not matter what "cover" you are taking seeing that there is no actual cover in the game.This is also a whole other issue, one that I very much doubt that DE will ever actually implement a cover system. Also when your shields get dropped in seconds taking cover is pointless. It also seems that having any amount ot shields above the base doesn't matter it all its depleted just as fast.  

 

different warframes have different base stats, such as shield.  mods that affect these stats increase the stat based on a percentage of the baset stat.

 

what level warframe, with what level shield mod versus what level mobs are you having a problem not dying with?

 

hope this helps!

[Teneroth]

different warframes have different base stats, such as shield.  mods that affect these stats increase the stat based on a percentage of the baset stat.

 

what level warframe, with what level shield mod versus what level mobs are you having a problem not dying with?

 

hope this helps!

 

I've been trying to squeeze that information out of him myself. 

 

If he is complaining about having his Excal with maxed shields stripped by level 100+ enemies then he is an idiot. Even my frost/rhino can't weather THAT much punishment for long. 

 

At higher levels enemies WILL be more difficult. If we assume that the power amount for a frame is your frames level than the max level you can get is 74 (30 from frame, 30 form tater, 14 from aura), then the mobs are 14 levels higher than you, which is a lot. At that point they will tear you down in an instant if you make a minor mistake, but that's how it should be. If you could wade through fire like freaking master chief then the game would have no challenge. 

 

As for cover systems... I have frankly had enough of the 'take cover and shoot at pop up target' style games (battlefield, CoD, Gears, ad. infinum). I would like to assume you are smart enough to press the crouch button when behind a wall if you want to hide, or simply put a wall between yourself and whoever thinks you need your daily dose of lead. I do NOT think we need a button that magnetizes your back to the wall or anything like that. It would ruin the pace, encourage camping, and basically ruin the game for me. 

 

If the OP wants to tell us what was happening when he has such difficulties, his frame, it's mods, and the like then I can help him with the build of his frame. 

 

Speaking of which, there is not only one build for any given frame. Weapons right now are a little like that because of the armor system at higher levels (not that it has stopped me from bringing my latron everywhere) but frames are very flexible. I've seen someone with a speed & caster build frost, instead of my ridiculously tanky one. You just have to know how to play the frame. Building a tanky excal is possible, but it will not be as tanky as a rhino or frost, it just won't be. It'll do a hell of a lot more damage with slash-dash than a tanky frost will with avalanch, but...  it's all about how you play it. If I built a speed excal and tried to play it as a tank, charging into melee without a care, I'll get destroyed. simple as that. It isn't because the build 'isn't viable' but because I'm being a moron with it. Fast frames should avoid 90% of attacks, tanky frames can still avoid attacks, but can, and will, take more hits. Casters kill things before they do too much, supports control everything and just hide behind their CC and friends. 

 

Trying to build a frame for one thing then playing it wrong is just asking for trouble. 

 

I love the skyrim reference earlier. I play a 2h muscle man in skyrim, I can cast a few spells, mainly healing so I don't waste potions between combat, but I don't try to shoot down dragons with spells when I can just beat them into the ground with my hammer. 

[LazyKnight]

Shields are not effective past level 70+ on any NPC that has guns. This is due to how the NPC scale damage and how the shields have a static value that doesn't increase. I have 1290 shields with my frost and I still hide in a snow globe if I see a level 100+ heavy gunner. People wanted a harder game so DE doubled the NPC level, but didn't double player shields.

 

I solo mission of all types include T3 defense and the key is to find ways that avoid taking direct damage by either using CC, things like frost snow globe or exploiting line-of-sight to keep as few as possible NPC from being able to target you. Use cover do not stand in the open, move around if NPC are using non hit scan weapons. The only frame that can take any beating at all in rhino and that is because of his iron skin, but even using that frame it is a good idea to avoid direct line of fire with multiple NPC.

[KuroAka]

I'm just going to be down with this game till DE wants to stop making awful mistakes and actually adds things in terms of better mechanics to the game. Instead of just upping the enemies and gimping players that want to use certain weapons and warframes. They are not all viable at all, and it shouldn't matter how anyone builds a warframe or weapons or what weapons they use. DE needs to fix this game and make it actually fun again and not the frustrating game that it has become. I had zero problem with anything my mods, the way I played the game. It was what made the game fun. But now its just not, and there is no point to the game when its not enjoyable to log in and try to kill stuff. DE needs to really take the time to think about how they want this game to be. Either its going to be fast paced hack and slash game, or its going to be a slower style game where you are going to have to pick and choose your battles. The game mechanics and what DE is trying to do are only at odds. And only the game and players are suffering. I'm all for making the game hard, but not the way DE thinks is making it hard. This game continues to get worse with every update. I can't imagine what people are going to think of this game when it hits the PS4.    

Edited October 1, 2013 by KuroAka

[Teneroth]

I'm just going to be down with this game till DE wants to stop making awful mistakes and actually adds things in terms of better mechanics to the game. Instead of just upping the enemies and gimping players that want to use certain weapons and warframes. They are not all viable at all, and it shouldn't matter how anyone builds a warframe or weapons or what weapons they use. DE needs to fix this game and make it actually fun again and not the frustrating game that it has become. I'm all for making the game hard, but not the way DE thinks is making it hard. This game continues to get worse with every update. I can't imagine what people are going to think of this game when it hits the PS4.    

 

They will probably love it, it's a great game and the vast majority of us enjoy it greatly (though I wish there was some more endgame to it)

 

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

Edit: if you ever want to come back and provide actual information to let us help you, feel free. If you are just going to complain and ignore everything we say and ask then.... see previous line

 

Double Edit: also, post 69 /\. Teeheehee

 

Yes, I have a problem... I know it...

Edited October 1, 2013 by Teneroth

[Beas7ie]

I have a Rhino with about 1100 shields and it seems that at mid to higher levels my shields drop almost instantly if I don't have Iron Skin activated.  

[Teneroth]

I have a Rhino with about 1100 shields and it seems that at mid to higher levels my shields drop almost instantly if I don't have Iron Skin activated.  

 

that's normal. Shields get no bonus from armor or resistances. But they regenerate. Think of them as a buffer rather than actual protection. 

 

Maybe a % of armor should apply to shields but... so long as you are a good ninja you can keep from taking too much health damage. 

[Beas7ie]

that's normal. Shields get no bonus from armor or resistances. But they regenerate. Think of them as a buffer rather than actual protection. 

 

Maybe a % of armor should apply to shields but... so long as you are a good ninja you can keep from taking too much health damage. 

 

They should be a buffer but it seems you get no lee way it's just  a cpl of hits and then boom shields gone, hell even with 80% armor bonus my health goes down fast too.  I know the idea is to not get hit but it does seem to me that defenses can  get just a SLIGHT buff.  Especially if you're supposed to be a "tank" class or a class that's more melee focused.

[KuroAka]

They will probably love it, it's a great game and the vast majority of us enjoy it greatly (though I wish there was some more endgame to it)

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Edit: if you ever want to come back and provide actual information to let us help you, feel free. If you are just going to complain and ignore everything we say and ask then.... see previous line

Double Edit: also, post 69 /\. Teeheehee

Yes, I have a problem... I know it...

Why would I ever give any information? Just to be told that I'm playing the game wrong and get yelled at by others that think that their way is the only "right" way to play and that is the only way; but it's not the way that I liked to play and worked just fine till DE decided to make the game "hard" and did it in such a awful way.

Edited October 2, 2013 by KuroAka

[bobafetthotmail]

Sorry, but as you see none gives a F*** about whiners. If you asked for help we would have helped.

 

That said, shield gets raped pretty quick even at low-ish levels if you just walk around like Rambo. Learn to use cover.

 

And if your weapon is ineffective, get a new one with better stats. It's simply idiotic to expect that you can go from Mercury to wave 20 of Void Defence T3 with the exact same configuration and weaponry.

 

 

If you don't like the game, stop playing.

Edited October 2, 2013 by bobafetthotmail