Mag's Pull Poll Pool (Its A Poll For Mag's Pull)

[PHOBIE]

Damage on pull is fine. Could get Armor Piercing damage to be able to scale into lategame. Right now its scaling is poor. Pull changes into pure CC after level 60-80 enemies at the latest. Provided you are in an environment where simply spamming it won't do the trick. This whole debate is not worth much if you do not compare the abilities against scaling enemy level and mission type.

[ninosan]

bump

[Keltik0ne]

I thought I'd run a bunch of PUG missions (varied types, mostly MD and survival though) to see how the new Mag master race was affecting the game and came to this conclusion:

There are a whole lotta Rhinos in game and no Mags or Novas. This was only over 40 or 45 missions though, so maybe I didn't give it much of a chance. When you see a minimum of 2 Rhinos per mission though, it's gotta mean something and that's unlikely to be "Mag needs nerfed back to uselessness".

[PenutReaper]

I thought I'd run a bunch of PUG missions (varied types, mostly MD and survival though) to see how the new Mag master race was affecting the game and came to this conclusion:

There are a whole lotta Rhinos in game and no Mags or Novas. This was only over 40 or 45 missions though, so maybe I didn't give it much of a chance. When you see a minimum of 2 Rhinos per mission though, it's gotta mean something and that's unlikely to be "Mag needs nerfed back to uselessness".

 

It means that Rhino is the most reliable frame to play PUGs with. His skills are easy to understand and use and are effective in just about every situation.

 

On the topic of Mag and pull, I think that the fact that pull is more effective than crush is just silly. I enjoyed Mag and pull back when you could still pull teammates, I even enjoyed pull v2. Pull v3 is the best 1 ability in the game, but that's not all, it is one of the best abilities period. It's up there with M Prime and Rhino Stomp. It needs to be changed.

[Keltik0ne]

It means that Rhino is the most reliable frame to play PUGs with. His skills are easy to understand and use and are effective in just about every situation.

 

On the topic of Mag and pull, I think that the fact that pull is more effective than crush is just silly. I enjoyed Mag and pull back when you could still pull teammates, I even enjoyed pull v2. Pull v3 is the best 1 ability in the game, but that's not all, it is one of the best abilities period. It's up there with M Prime and Rhino Stomp. It needs to be changed.

 

It means that Rhino is the most reliable frame to play PUGs with. His skills are easy to understand and use and are effective in just about every situation.

 

On the topic of Mag and pull, I think that the fact that pull is more effective than crush is just silly. I enjoyed Mag and pull back when you could still pull teammates, I even enjoyed pull v2. Pull v3 is the best 1 ability in the game, but that's not all, it is one of the best abilities period. It's up there with M Prime and Rhino Stomp. It needs to be changed.

 

The main probem is that Mag is a totally underwhelming frame: she does nothing as well as her peers and her skills are in many cases, garbage. She needed a rework and got a mild polish.

 

So we're basically left with a slightly shinier turd, with an OP 1 skill and garbage in all other slots.

[Kesella]

The main probem is that Mag is a totally underwhelming frame: she does nothing as well as her peers and her skills are in many cases, garbage. She needed a rework and got a mild polish.

 

So we're basically left with a slightly shinier turd, with an OP 1 skill and garbage in all other slots.

 

Quite the opposite, she has the most well rounded skill set in the game.  Pull was the best setup power in the game, period.  No need to wait for enemies to walk into it, just plop the room full of enemies at one spot and nuke the hell our of them.  Shield Polarize drains 50% of the targets shields and turns it into 250% damage as an explosion from the target.  That is nothing to sneeze.  Not to mention that with it looking like we will be getting PullV2 back we can cause even more overlapping explosions.  Bullet Attractor is a love/hate relationship with Mag.  It feels overcosted but with the lockdown you can do and comboing it with the Glaive or Miter can deal massive damage.  That and it allows shotgun users to be able to guarantee full pellet count from a distance.  Crush's damage is suffering the same fate as every other non-armor ignoring weapon/power in the game and will see a indirect buff with the new damage formulas.  All this made her usable in nearly any group comp.  Her only weakness is Toxic's and to be honest if her only weakness is one enemy type in one of four enemy factions in the game that is not much of a weakness.  It just takes caution.

[Wynn]

So they talked about bring the old pull back on the night stream last week then posted here after the stream about it and no dice still.

[Preanette]

So they talked about bring the old pull back on the night stream last week then posted here after the stream about it and no dice still.

No dice for the other warframes either...so let's wait.

 

I think they are in the process, since now I've noticed ancients get pulled all the way past you instead of just toppling down now.

[Kesella]

Right now they are doing minor tweaks and bug fixes.  I think what they want to do is keep the ragdoll and add the bring-to-your-feet that Pull V2 had (basically what we thought we were getting) but one of the first things they had to do was fix the ragdoll multi-hitbox bug.  If they did not we would of just pulled all to one spot and instagibbed with a Ignis blast.  Once they are sure that there is no ragdoll shenanigans they will probably go through with the rest of the changes.  We probably will not see anything until the next round of major Warframe changes.  Until then Fleeting Expertise pull spam.  Correct me if I am wrong but this with Streamline makes pull 2.5 energy?  Streamline saves 7.5 energy and Fleeting Expertise saves 15 energy.

[Preanette]

Right now they are doing minor tweaks and bug fixes.  I think what they want to do is keep the ragdoll and add the bring-to-your-feet that Pull V2 had (basically what we thought we were getting) but one of the first things they had to do was fix the ragdoll multi-hitbox bug.  If they did not we would of just pulled all to one spot and instagibbed with a Ignis blast.  Once they are sure that there is no ragdoll shenanigans they will probably go through with the rest of the changes.  We probably will not see anything until the next round of major Warframe changes.  Until then Fleeting Expertise pull spam.  Correct me if I am wrong but this with Streamline makes pull 2.5 energy?  Streamline saves 7.5 energy and Fleeting Expertise saves 15 energy.

There is actually a cap to power efficiency at 75%. So mag's pull will be 6.25 energy with no rounding up or down as the energy bar visually indicates.

 

So 1 energy orb could = 4 pulls. But considering only BA requires duration, I would gladly replace streamline with fleeting expertise for 60% efficiency since 75% is pretty excessive unless crush finds some use over pull.

 

Pull V2 + ragdoll is not a bad choice. If only ragdoll would be visually more professional looking and the enemies don't bounce away from you after you pull them.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

I would actually like the old pull back exactly as it was, but under a new name "tactical pull" instead. Players would only get to equip one of the pull versions onto Mag and everybody is happy. And really, honestly people, is there anything more fun than playing T3 exterminate and sending heavies into the air for some skeet shooting? :D

[leonvision]

for its big aoe, compared to other 25energy skills, it does way too much damage. edit: not to mention it's armor ignore.

pull should be pulling enemy towards mag, preferably up to mag so we can melee, spray the floor. if it doesnt pull towards the caster, why is it called pull and not "fling around"

ragdoll is fine, but only if it's not as unpredictable as now and if it, again, pulled instead of just fling them around, commonly upwards.

Edited October 11, 2013 by leonvision

[Preanette]

I would actually like the old pull back exactly as it was, but under a new name "tactical pull" instead. Players would only get to equip one of the pull versions onto Mag and everybody is happy. And really, honestly people, is there anything more fun than playing T3 exterminate and sending heavies into the air for some skeet shooting? :D

If that ragdoll pull is a second choice, it must have it's damage nerfed. If it isn't, the only way to justify using crush is to buff it to 1200 armor ignore damage or even higher. Lovers of other warframes will cry foul if crush overpowers Saryn's Miasma. 

[Kesella]

There is actually a cap to power efficiency at 75%. So mag's pull will be 6.25 energy with no rounding up or down as the energy bar visually indicates.

 

So 1 energy orb could = 4 pulls. But considering only BA requires duration, I would gladly replace streamline with fleeting expertise for 60% efficiency since 75% is pretty excessive unless crush finds some use over pull.

 

Pull V2 + ragdoll is not a bad choice. If only ragdoll would be visually more professional looking and the enemies don't bounce away from you after you pull them.

 

 

I literally just read that about the cap in a Blind Rage thread where just two points in Blind Rage will not have a negative effect on energy cost if you have max Streamline and Fleeting Expertise.  This would put Pull at 471 damage for 6.25 energy.  So until they fix Pull, spam nuke away.

[Preanette]

I literally just read that about the cap in a Blind Rage thread where just two points in Blind Rage will not have a negative effect on energy cost if you have max Streamline and Fleeting Expertise.  This would put Pull at 471 damage for 6.25 energy.  So until they fix Pull, spam nuke away.

hmm wow....that 471 dmg is JUST NICE for constant 1 shotting up to 20min at saturn cassini and every light mob in the orokin derelicts.

 

Don't get too addicted haha, or else when V2 comes back you might be a lil disappointed.

[litlit]

Now that ragdoll is fixed (ragdolled enemies can now be damaged normally), I don't really care if Pull keeps ragdoll. I want to be Pull again, pulling everything directly onto the Mag.

 

As long as that happens I don't care about the ability's other aspects.

[MuhhhhKuh]

for its big aoe, compared to other 25energy skills, it does way too much damage. edit: not to mention it's armor ignore.

pull should be pulling enemy towards mag, preferably up to mag so we can melee, spray the floor. if it doesnt pull towards the caster, why is it called pull and not "fling around"

ragdoll is fine, but only if it's not as unpredictable as now and if it, again, pulled instead of just fling them around, commonly upwards.

 

i too think the damage is too high atm, maybe it should be designed like shootguns damage, the further afar an enemy is, the less damage is dealt.

maybe till 5 m 300 damage then % reduced till minimum of 50 damage at 20m or above.

 

i like would like to see a final pull version that lifts the enemies into the air like now, but the enemies should hit the ground 2-3 meters in front of mag. 

But if this is what is intended by DE, they should set the damage as a whole to only 50 again, or 300 not armor ignore damage, otherwise its even more overpowered.

[Preanette]

Now that ragdoll is fixed (ragdolled enemies can now be damaged normally), I don't really care if Pull keeps ragdoll. I want to be Pull again, pulling everything directly onto the Mag.

 

As long as that happens I don't care about the ability's other aspects.

I saw your thread on the ragdoll bugs. Thanks for making that thread and then testing that the hitbox problem has been fixed.

 

Now ragdolled enemies should ragdoll with a less "weird" mechanism, so they won't hop around or swim/stick to the air.

[Kesella]

hmm wow....that 471 dmg is JUST NICE for constant 1 shotting up to 20min at saturn cassini and every light mob in the orokin derelicts.

 

Don't get too addicted haha, or else when V2 comes back you might be a lil disappointed.

 

Yea, but while I wait for the devs to fix pull there is no reason not to abuse spam nuking it.  That's 1884 damage at the cost of one energy orb.

[Wynn]

What the hell is going on with Mag we got them commenting on changing it and then nothing.

[Kesella]

What the hell is going on with Mag we got them commenting on changing it and then nothing.

 

From what I can tell from history, they like to do warframe changes in bulk.  Pull functionally works right now so there is no rush.  When they push out the next batch of changes we should see something there.

[PHOBIE]

I think people fail to realize that MAG pull will fall off after a certain level of enemies. So it will then be converted to CC. Which is perfectly in tune with the game so far.

[Kesella]

I think people fail to realize that MAG pull will fall off after a certain level of enemies. So it will then be converted to CC. Which is perfectly in tune with the game so far.

 

From my experience that does not happen until lv 150 with vanilla mods and no Nova or Rhino in the group.  With Corrupt mods and a Rhino and a Nova in the group a Mag will push much higher than that.  This is where the main problem lies, Mag is advertised as a control/support frame and she does not play like that until those super high levels.  With most of the game content being between lv 40-100 Mag is not fulfilling her advertised roll and is instead just another Nova.

[PHOBIE]

How about trying out how far you can go playing Xini with two MAGs. Let me tell you you won't get far. Stating that MAG can handle level 150 enemies seems dangerously close to misinformation to me. Unless you mean with a full team, which she then supports and synergizes nicely with. Which is the purpose of the game. Teamplay. I still think that MAG has an awesome #1 skill. I just do not believe your reasons for "advertised as a control/support frame and she does not play like it" hold true.

[cyrus106]

How about trying out how far you can go playing Xini with two MAGs. Let me tell you you won't get far. Stating that MAG can handle level 150 enemies seems dangerously close to misinformation to me. Unless you mean with a full team, which she then supports and synergizes nicely with. Which is the purpose of the game. Teamplay. I still think that MAG has an awesome #1 skill. I just do not believe your reasons for "advertised as a control/support frame and she does not play like it" hold true.

funny, I made it to wave 40 on xini with 1 mag and 1 ember, you sure about that?