10 Hours Of Farming For 2 Days Still No Hammershot.

[Kolos1001]

lesson is: don't burn yourself out. If you don't feel like you're having fun anymore, stop. You can play anytime, this is F2P. Take a break.

 

QFT

[Dogspeonlegs]

 

Your personal anecdote of luck is good for you, but does not address statistical outliers and those less fortunate than you. I suggest, before you dismiss feedback of others, you check your privilege. People like you are an issue in itself. "It's fine because it worked for me." Sometimes, a horizon is so low, it's really just a circle, and some people then call that their point of view. Try a little compassion and situational awareness, gentletenno.

I just hate whiners. I can't get something WHAAAA. Don't play a game with drop rates scrubs. Go back to CareBear land.

 

I don't care if you waste all your life on this game farming for something and it doesn't drop, just means your an idiot.

[Dogspeonlegs]

This is exactly why nightmare weekend alerts should be a permanent aspect of the alert system (but rare mods such as Blaze and Hammer Shot should only be available 1-2 times a month like forma/reactors/catalysts)

 

Nope should make them 0.01% now that most people already have it. Let the other people whine about drop rates on forum later.

[Asbeel]

In four hours to get all the mods nightmare

[Ced23Ric]

I just hate whiners. I can't get something WHAAAA. Don't play a game with drop rates scrubs. Go back to CareBear land. I don't care if you waste all your life on this game farming for something and it doesn't drop, just means your an idiot.

Nope should make them 0.01% now that most people already have it. Let the other people whine about drop rates on forum later.

 

On the verge of sounding like a broken record: Feedback includes satisfaction and fun a game provides. No mechanic in the world can save a game if it isn't fun. Here are people complaining about an aspect not being fun. Who are you to deny that feedback, and even going as far as denouncing it as whining? We have to provide this feedback, if we want changes to the game. And if a developer thinks that a 1% chance to receive an item is far, we need to remind them of their own words, concerning grind and the amount of it.

 

Please look past the rim of your teacup. And please don't be an unintentional troll.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Ced23Ric

[Dogspeonlegs]

On the verge of sounding like a broken record: Feedback includes satisfaction and fun a game provides. No mechanic in the world can save a game if it isn't fun. Here are people complaining about an aspect not being fun. Who are you to deny that feedback, and even going as far as denouncing it as whining? We have to provide this feedback, if we want changes to the game. And if a developer thinks that a 1% chance to receive an item is far, we need to remind them of their own words, concerning grind and the amount of it.

 

Please look past the rim of your teacup. And please don't be an unintentional troll.

Feedback is feedback and crying about a game mech. that you know is in place is just whining.

 

Some people are lucky and some people unlucky, this is the design path they have chosen. You either live with it or quit.

 

OMG I CAN'T GET THE ONE ITEM I WANT IN GAME SUPER EASY. Go rage on board and cry for item. These type of people ruin games.

 

There needs to be hard to obtain or items almost impossiable to get, to give something for the hardcores to aim for.

 

Also say someone did invest 200+ hours farming for an item. Does that means he deserves it? No. It was his choice, time, and effort to try to obtain this item. Just because something says it has a 1% or 10% doesn't mean it has to ever drop for you.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Dogspeonlegs

[Ced23Ric]

Feedback is feedback and crying about a game mech. that you know is in place is just whining.

Some people are lucky some people unlucky this is the design path they have chosen. You either live with it or quit.

OMG I CAN'T GET ONE ITEM I WANT IN GAME SUPER EASY. Go rage on board and cry for item. These type of people ruin games.

You have to have hard to obtain or items almost impossiable to obtain to give something for the hardcores to aim for.

 

You are a problem.

 

You seem to think that any mechanic that is in-game is no longer up to debate. I disagree strongly. Luck-based drops with low percentages are artificial content extenders with little fun involved. You may think that the train ends there, but some of us would like to take it further and put it back on the table. It is not about super-easy, so you can can that strawman. No one said "super-easy", no asks for things to be thrown at them all willy-nilly. There is no rage and no crying.

 

You ruin games. People like you. People who roll over and accept a broken design decision because of blind obedience. There is no "working" towards an RNG system. There is only rolling the dice over and over again and hoping to get lucky. Acquring such an item is not a sign of dedication or skill, effort or will. It is a sign of luck, chance.

 

A gets Hammershot on run #2.

B doesn't get it after weeks.

 

Both are statistical outliers, and both have a problem. For A, it was too easy. He didn't have to do anything special. Take me for example. I got three Blaze and Hammershot the day Nightmare started, didn't know they were hard to get, didn't pay much mind to them. No feeling of accomplishment or reward, just a checkbox on something to get. On the other end of the spectrum you have people like the oP, who cannot, for the life of them, try as they might, get these items. Neither of us has fun because of the system chosen.

 

And that is where complaints/feedback are necessary to tell the designers the player's perspective, so they can change/adapt the systems and make a more rewarding system.

 

You on the other hand, are a problem, because your perception ends just a few steps past your point of view.

[Alohoe]

Noobs be like "give me my mods now with no effort"

[Dogspeonlegs]

You are a problem.

 

You seem to think that any mechanic that is in-game is no longer up to debate. I disagree strongly. Luck-based drops with low percentages are artificial content extenders with little fun involved. You may think that the train ends there, but some of us would like to take it further and put it back on the table. It is not about super-easy, so you can can that strawman. No one said "super-easy", no asks for things to be thrown at them all willy-nilly. There is no rage and no crying.

 

You ruin games. People like you. People who roll over and accept a broken design decision because of blind obedience. There is no "working" towards an RNG system. There is only rolling the dice over and over again and hoping to get lucky. Acquring such an item is not a sign of dedication or skill, effort or will. It is a sign of luck, chance.

 

A gets Hammershot on run #2.

B doesn't get it after weeks.

 

Both are statistical outliers, and both have a problem. For A, it was too easy. He didn't have to do anything special. Take me for example. I got three Blaze and Hammershot the day Nightmare started, didn't know they were hard to get, didn't pay much mind to them. No feeling of accomplishment or reward, just a checkbox on something to get. On the other end of the spectrum you have people like the oP, who cannot, for the life of them, try as they might, get these items. Neither of us has fun because of the system chosen.

 

And that is where complaints/feedback are necessary to tell the designers the player's perspective, so they can change/adapt the systems and make a more rewarding system.

 

You on the other hand, are a problem, because your perception ends just a few steps past your point of view.

Your whole post screams give me easy loot. Go play hello kitty online.

[Dogspeonlegs]

 

Noobs be like "give me my mods now with no effort"

 

+1

[Ced23Ric]

Your whole post screams give me easy loot. Go play hello kitty online.

 

I am sorry that you suffer from that delusion. You are talking to someone who has farmed for, grinded for and obtained every item this game has ever had since U5. On the other hand, you are also not offering any arguments to substantiate your position, so I must assume you ran out of arguments and need to switch to ad hominem attacks as a last resort.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Ced23Ric

[CrayptorCraw]

Get those farms in Tenno. The capture nightmare mission is up right now. Now is the time to farm nightmare.

[Tartanu]

Your whole post screams give me easy loot. Go play hello kitty online.

Glad to see a guy who's given as much to this game and community as Ced get branded a whiny loser who should F*** off and die.  This community sure is going places.  I have the utmost faith.

[Tartanu]

Oh, and for all those idiots who think that the RNG is "work," you probably haven't "worked" a day in your lives.

 

When you "work," you clock your hours/days/weeks and get compensated proportionately.  You work more, you get more, not "you have a <1% chance to get a bonus."  To anyone who thinks the latter can be characterized as "work," have fun playing the lottery for a living, bro.

[Dogspeonlegs]

I am sorry that you suffer from that delusion. You are talking to someone who has farmed for, grinded for and obtained every item this game has ever had since U5. On the other hand, you are also not offering any arguments to substantiate your position, so I must assume you ran out of arguments and need to switch to ad hominem attacks as a last resort.

Cause nothing is wrong with the current loot system. So there is no arguement to really make. Just rage the whiners not getting there mods and bp drops MAUAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHA

[Hayden11121]

Noobs be like "give me my mods now with no effort"

Smart people be like "give me dat mod I worked for it"

[ChaoticVice777]

Cause nothing is wrong with the current loot system. So there is no arguement to really make. Just rage the whiners not getting there mods and bp drops MAUAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHA

 

Sorry if I offend you, but you just downgraded from being a troll to being delusional. Have you read the numerous threads complaining about the current loot table/RNG? 

[batmany8]

It scares me how people actually ran that many runs and still haven't gotten what they want. Thank the RNG gods that they like me

[YouHaveShamedYoFamory]

i like how so many people quoted me o.o

[Kolos1001]

Having a system where luck is rewarded instead of effort is not really the optimal way of creating a game. When you get what you wanted on the first run it's nice but there's little to no satisfaction and you probably won't play it again. I got every nekros piece in 3 runs and I haven't gone back. Once I get all the nightmare mods I want I won't go back to those either because quite frankly I don't think that mode is fun.

 

When you get what you want after hundreds of runs you don't feel satisfied with your effort you feel resentful that you had to play hours and hours to get something that other people got without any work at all.

 

When you have a goal and you get litterally no progress no matter how many runs you do because of the game mechanics...that means those are bad mechanics. No one is asking for "easy rewards" people are just asking that working hard for what you want will yield something in return.

[Trainer772]

I ran Jackel over 150 times for rhino. On our teamspeak, there's a joke where if RNG doesn't give something someone wants, we say "(boss, mode, etc) went Jackel on him"

 

I'm cool with it though. It made me appreciate how much faster the other frames were to get (half the number of runs for ALL THE OTHER FRAMES COMBINED)

 

Randomness is tedious but I don't see any other way.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Trainer772

[Dunkelheit]

You are a problem.

 

You seem to think that any mechanic that is in-game is no longer up to debate. I disagree strongly. Luck-based drops with low percentages are artificial content extenders with little fun involved. You may think that the train ends there, but some of us would like to take it further and put it back on the table. It is not about super-easy, so you can can that strawman. No one said "super-easy", no asks for things to be thrown at them all willy-nilly. There is no rage and no crying.

 

You ruin games. People like you. People who roll over and accept a broken design decision because of blind obedience. There is no "working" towards an RNG system. There is only rolling the dice over and over again and hoping to get lucky. Acquring such an item is not a sign of dedication or skill, effort or will. It is a sign of luck, chance.

 

A gets Hammershot on run #2.

B doesn't get it after weeks.

 

Both are statistical outliers, and both have a problem. For A, it was too easy. He didn't have to do anything special. Take me for example. I got three Blaze and Hammershot the day Nightmare started, didn't know they were hard to get, didn't pay much mind to them. No feeling of accomplishment or reward, just a checkbox on something to get. On the other end of the spectrum you have people like the oP, who cannot, for the life of them, try as they might, get these items. Neither of us has fun because of the system chosen.

 

And that is where complaints/feedback are necessary to tell the designers the player's perspective, so they can change/adapt the systems and make a more rewarding system.

 

You on the other hand, are a problem, because your perception ends just a few steps past your point of view.

 

 

Cedric, the problem is not the RNG... the problem is that you run the mission ONLY to get this mod. This makes it boring, tedious and say "mum, please help" in soft words.

 

If you would have the fun of your life running those missions, then sooner or later the mod would drop for you. It would not be a big deal and for sure you won't post on an internet board.

 

So the real angle here is to make the missions so much fun that you don't run it for the reward, but for the gaming experience.

 

 

 

Another argument:

 

In how many missions do you actually need hammershot to play this game? Or even better: In how many weapons do you have Hammershot equipped?

 

The mod is not needed at all. There are things like multishot and serration who are really needed. To make multishot rare is an issue, but not the rarity of hammershot.

If someone comes to the forum and whines that he cannot get hammershot, it does not show a problem in game design, it shows that this person wants to have it badly, but cannot get it. It is like the real world: Someone drives a Ferrari and you go to the Ferrari company and whine that they are too expensive and cannot get them. And the guy who won the lottery could buy it, this is so unfair.

 

Well, you don't really need a Ferrari to live. If you don't have food or a place to sleep, even some luxury items like a computer or a nice vacation, then you have a reason to complain, but not for a Ferrari.

 

Hammershot is the Ferrari, you need luck to get it and you don't need it. If you try to get it badly, if you invest all your energy and fail, there is the problem right there. It is you! You should have fun in a game. Do things you like and let the rest come towards you. If you actually "work" for something in a "game", this is all wrong.

 

Blaming, arguing and fighting a company for their design decision to let luck play a factor in THEIR game is a bit overboard. I for one don't want a token system. I don't want to know that I have to run this mission 23657 times to get my mod. This feels like work and I don't want to work in a game. I  am very happy with the RNG based system.

 

I have run T2 about one hundred times to get Mag Prime systems when I did not know that the drop chances in T3 are a lot higher. But I had fun doing it. I tried out different warframes, levelled up weapons, looked for the parcour rooms and got some rare mods, a lot of credits in the process. If I would not have fun, I would stop looking for that and wait for an opportunity. I would not go to the forums and complain, complain, complain.

 

I am all for people having fun in the game, but when the "fun" in the game is "posessing an item", then it is no real fun, it is greed. And I can tell you, in the material world, when you get your item in the end, it will be very soon very outdated for you. Even a Ferrari would at one point be a normal car for you if you were that rich to afford one.

 

Sorry that I got at you so hard, but this complaining day in, day out, it is really a bit much atm.

[ChaoticVice777]

Hammershot is the Ferrari, you need luck to get it and you don't need it. If you try to get it badly, if you invest all your energy and fail, there is the problem right there. It is you! You should have fun in a game. Do things you like and let the rest come towards you. If you actually "work" for something in a "game", this is all wrong.

 

Blaming, arguing and fighting a company for their design decision to let luck play a factor in THEIR game is a bit overboard. I for one don't want a token system. I don't want to know that I have to run this mission 23657 times to get my mod. This feels like work and I don't want to work in a game. I  am very happy with the RNG based system.

 

I have run T2 about one hundred times to get Mag Prime systems when I did not know that the drop chances in T3 are a lot higher. But I had fun doing it. I tried out different warframes, levelled up weapons, looked for the parcour rooms and got some rare mods, a lot of credits in the process. If I would not have fun, I would stop looking for that and wait for an opportunity. I would not go to the forums and complain, complain, complain.

 

I am all for people having fun in the game, but when the "fun" in the game is "posessing an item", then it is no real fun, it is greed. And I can tell you, in the material world, when you get your item in the end, it will be very soon very outdated for you. Even a Ferrari would at one point be a normal car for you if you were that rich to afford one.

 

Sorry that I got at you so hard, but this complaining day in, day out, it is really a bit much atm.

 

Hammer Shot and Blaze cannot use the Ferrari analogy because they really do change gameplay in a significant manner. Combining Blaze and Point Blank allows shotguns to gain damage on par with Rank 9 Serration (albeit costing more slots and Forma). Combining Vital Sense and Hammer Shot allows critical hits to hit even harder, going from the "regular" 420% critical damage to the extreme of 840% critical damage.

 

RNG is actually a valid loot system, but computers can only simulate RNG. Additionally, there's also the possibility that such a psuedo-RNG is fixed in a specific manner, which is what the token system is supposed to counter. An example would be Vindictus and the Raid Seal Shop. Level 70 items used to be incredibly difficult to find due to the individual rare mats being only found on specific raids that could only be usually run once or twice per day. The RNG was fixed, and the chances were a lot lower than 1%. The inclusion of these rare materials into the Raid Seal Shop (Raid Seals were gained by doing raids every day) was a literal miracle and a half. Don't even get me started on the enhancement system.

 

It's fine to have fun, but I seriously doubt it's fine rolling the dice in the same manner hundreds of times.

[Dunkelheit]

We were talking about Hammershot here...

I still don't have Blaze, too... but I mow through the content like there is no tomorrow. Even Blaze is actually not needed. If we were talking about Blaze, the issue would be a whole other story though and you are absolutely right. This mod should be available, because it makes shotguns more viable for the endgame.

 

But the OP was talking about Hammershot. And whining about Hammershot is not viable atm. Or which shotgun exactly do you build with crit build?`Well, then we have another problem, because rainbow is far more viable for all shotties atm (correct me, if I am wrong).

 

So whining about Hammershot - lame

whining about Blaze - justified (even though you can manage without)

 

At least till Armor 2.0 changes stuff around.

[Ced23Ric]

If you would have the fun of your life running those missions, then sooner or later the mod would drop for you. It would not be a big deal and for sure you won't post on an internet board. So the real angle here is to make the missions so much fun that you don't run it for the reward, but for the gaming experience.

 

Another argument:

In how many missions do you actually need hammershot to play this game? Or even better: In how many weapons do you have Hammershot equipped? The mod is not needed at all. If someone comes to the forum and whines that he cannot get hammershot, it does not show a problem in game design, it shows that this person wants to have it badly, but cannot get it. It is like the real world: Someone drives a Ferrari and you go to the Ferrari company and whine that they are too expensive and cannot get them. And the guy who won the lottery could buy it, this is so unfair.

 

If you try to get it badly, if you invest all your energy and fail, there is the problem right there. It is you!

 

Blaming, arguing and fighting a company for their design decision to let luck play a factor in THEIR game is a bit overboard. I for one don't want a token system. I don't want to know that I have to run this mission 23657 times to get my mod. This feels like work and I don't want to work in a game. I  am very happy with the RNG based system.

 

In chronological order:

The aspect of missing fun has been feedbacked on for a long time. Players have provided loads of ideas on how to enrich the game experience, but not a lot has been picked up upon. I agree with you that if people would have fun, the focus of obtaining item X would be less, and the game would be more enjoyable. That does, though, no invalidate the complaint about a 1% drop chance. Even if the game would be more fun, that droprate would still be 1%, and still be disheartening.

It is not about what you need. No one needs Warframe to begin with. It is, indeed, about what people want. That is not greed, though, but a valid desire. DE put item X in the game, people want item X. Dismissing that as greed is a little bit too simple. For example, you want to have fun while running a void mission. You want something. It's not an item, it is an experience, but where is the difference? And what entitles you to make that distinction? One needs to be careful when judging the desires of others. Your priorities and perception are not a Golden Standard, nor are they more justified than others. The desire of another player to collect all mods, regardless of requirement or necessity, is just as valid as a goal as getting to rank 12 or defeating T3 Defense with melee only.

PS: I have Hammershot equipped on the Soma, because it actually makes crit builds viable. Boosting that is nothing but consequential building.

You shouldn't start with "someone whines", because you already judge them right there. Listen to what they have to say instead of dismissing it. Apply logic and situational awareness, and stay level-headed. Dismissing the desires of others is nothing short of ignorant, with all due respect. If you want to indulge in a meaningful debate, you need to start expanding your horizon. A RNG system that dangles a reward at 1% chance is not an engaging game mechanic, and it certainly isn't good design. Good design uses effort and risks to make rewards valueable.

RNG and random loot drops are the deliberate abuse of Skinner Box mechanics, to extend content with an arbitrary, unnegotiatable luck factor that is simply uncaring for anything the player does. When these systems came into being, the players advocating them were Skinner Box trained by endorphine release and rather had the rush of a reward then the accomplishment of work. It's like the lottery. People get lucky. Getting lucky is easier than working. And since  "profit numbs the feelings", people gamble, play the lottery and say that they like the RNG. But they don't. People like winning and getting lucky, not gambling and lottery and RNG. This is basic psychology.

I don't care who's game this is. It doesn't matter. I am saying that RNG / Skinner Box abuse systems are bad and malicious in their very nature. Did so in Firefall, against Red 5, and eventually, random loot (upgrades) was removed. Now they only drop sidegrades and midgrades, upgrades need to be crafted. Players still get assisting loot, but the real deal comes from tangible, controlled effort. And while I rag on Firefall everywhere I go, that is probably the best midway solution I have seen in a while. It combines tangible effort/reward with a bit of luck on the way to where you want to go.

Say you want stronger jets, which require an amount X of resources. So you go out and farm those resources, and while you do that, you kill a mob that drops Green Jets. Now, you are going to craft blue or better, but the green ones are nicer than the stock stuff you start with. So in the interrim, you install those, get a little bit of an improvement and get the smile of a lucky drop - but the reward and feeling of accomplishment comes later and replaces those.

Being happy with any RNG system is a cognitive dissonance. You know you have the same chances as everyone else, you know your chance to get Hammershot is 1%, but you subconsciously hope that it will either drop eventually (luck) or you get lucky when you go to get it (luck again). You are not looking at the clear data that shows how dreadful your chances are, you hope for the lucky moment, and ignore the unlucky ones. And then you enjoy your endorphine rush and feel as if RNG is good.

 

It is not.

 

PS: "It is you!" - That argument falls flat on it's face. I am the only factor I can control, and I am doing whatever necessary to acquire item X. If the RNG denies me that drop, how is it me? A change in personal predispositon does not change the RNG. All I can do is roll the dice as often as I can make that happen, without any guarantee of a payout. Ever. It is certainly not the player. Believing that is a little warped.

 

because rainbow is far more viable for all shotties atm (correct me, if I am wrong).

 

So whining about Hammershot - lame

whining about Blaze - justified (even though you can manage without)

 

Shotguns run best with these mods:

Hell's Chamber, Point Blank, Blaze, Accelerated Blast, Flechette, Incendiary Coat/Charged Shell, Chilling Grasp, Tactical Pump/Ammo Stock

 

The Soma runs best with:

Split Chamber, Serration, Shred, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Hammershot, Wildfire/Ammo Mutation, Piercing Hit.

 

It is not about shotguns, Hammershot doesn't even go on shotguns. What are you talking about?

Edited October 2, 2013 by Ced23Ric