Nerfing Nova.

[.Monarch]

Responses in bold.

 

Quote from Steve in one of the live stream.

" Don't nerf X, make X as good as Y. Message received, and understood. "

" Vauban and Nova is the new standards. "

 

What is your evidence on proving Nova isn't meant for high tier?

 

Look at it at a new player's perspective.

You start a game, and there are these levels showing Enemy level 5~10. Then on the next planet there are Enemy level 20~30. So on.

Of course eventually you'll get good, but skills isn't going to solve everything.

IE. Bring an unranked Rhino, unranked Soma, unranked Despair, unranked Galatine to a level 90~100. Doesn't matter you're a pro or not, you're gonna die so fast, it'll be done before I finish sneezing.

 

Money solves almost every problem in the world. So let's not look at the alternative on obtaining Nova. (Platinum)

The "legit" way of obtaining her is through high-tier, a corpus boss drop I believe? Was it the flying one?

 

To get there, you already have a decent amount of skill developed, and experience. If Nova is meant for low tier, or to be equal with all other Frames, why would she be put on one of the more complicated or harder boss fight, instead of just a regular leech krill, or Vor? Why not just put her as one of the Phobos drop?

 

There's a stair climb to this game, since it's beta and we've been playing since it was a fetus. We forgot that climb we had, it was easy because we climbed every stair right away when it came out. But for new players, unless they're buying, these are challenges they're going to face.

 

Nova's power is essential, or else you wouldn't be hearing why people so desperately wanting a Nova in their team for a T3 Def, or any of sort.

While it is true that most Frame seems to be "balanced", it is still obvious how most people pick one Frame over the other, pointing out that subconsciously we recognize there's one Frame better than the other. The only difference between, is that these regular Frames have a smaller gap together, so people doesn't notice as much, and won't complain as much.

 

To fix this issue, DE just needs to either

- Implement more Frames to close the tier gap between Nova and the generals

- Start bringing up all general Frames, in process, destroying the tier gap, making starter mission lolcake for every noob out there.

- Nerf Nova like everyone wanted, and leave nothing to deal with high tier enemies easier. So let's just stick to run Kappa for the rest of our lives. 

[Ionus]

Sonar is nothing compared to MP, double damage no matter where you shoot is always good. Lanka can do up to 22k damage, with MP that is 44k add roar and it's 55k damage. That pretty much insta kills everything except bosses. And then you have slow to boot. Nova is better utility frame than banshee.

 

And then you have Wormhole. Pretty overlooked in my opinion, only it offers a teleport with pretty much no distance limit. And everyone can use it, I believe up to 3 people.

 

Nova is pretty much perfect utility, that has synergy with all frames simply because MP gives damage boost where ever you shoot and does damage if something dies which means it can kill or seriously weaken everything nearby.

 

In my opinion some tweaking needs to be done. Like, as I said, remove damage boost or slow from MP but compensate by adding damage to Null Star and make Anti matter drop more reliable.

Am I hallucinating or was Nova called a utility frame? Wat.

 

Wormhole is an "oh sh*t" ability to get the squishy Nova out of a mob of bruisers. It's like saying Trinity or Ember used to be better tanks than Rhino before the changes.

[TheResult]

Look at it at a new player's perspective.

You start a game, and there are these levels showing Enemy level 5~10. Then on the next planet there are Enemy level 20~30. So on.

Of course eventually you'll get good, but skills isn't going to solve everything.

IE. Bring an unranked Rhino, unranked Soma, unranked Despair, unranked Galatine to a level 90~100. Doesn't matter you're a pro or not, you're gonna die so fast, it'll be done before I finish sneezing.

 

This is such a weird argument, though. And you have to use that extreme to make your point, too-- because you realize if you said anything like "rank 10" instead of flatout "unranked", you'd have people gunning to prove you wrong. ( And you'd probably get people who would, because let's face it, there are people out there who are just plain good at the game either way. )

 

I get what you're saying, I do-- there are tiers of equipment, and you don't just come into the endgame with Baby's First Unranked Gun and expect to win. But having a frame that's meant for endgame and having a frame that spits in the endgame's eye are two totally different things, and if it ends up making the tough missions too easy, that's pretty good evidence that balancing is necessary. And it seems to me that a lot of people find that Nova makes the endgame considerably easier than it should be, in comparison to other frames.. Other frames, I'll add, that still can beat those tough 100-200~ missions, just with more effort.

 

If Nova is meant for low tier, or to be equal with all other Frames, why would she be put on one of the more complicated or harder boss fight, instead of just a regular leech krill, or Vor?

 

The boss you get her parts from is just the Raptor that flies over a small building. You can literally just hide inside the building, poke your head out, and pick it off. It's ironic you compare the boss to Lech Kril or Vor, because in terms of "regular" bosses, Raptor is just one of the regular-enemy-reskin bosses that you keep shooting at.. Whereas, for example, Kril requires you to shoot at certain parts of him, and goes through "stages".

 

Nova is not hard to acquire at all.

 

Nerf Nova like everyone wanted, and leave nothing to deal with high tier enemies easier. So let's just stick to run Kappa for the rest of our lives.

 

.. Implying that Nova is necessary on a team to beat high tier enemies, and that nobody can do it without her. Or that balancing her would make her useless.

[akaSM]

Because a single nerf makes the whole entire game S#&$

 

 

[SanityRobot]

T3 Void runs and level 100+ enemies as should all frames be made for.

 

Except like 99% of the game's content is under level 100.

 

Most of it under level 80.

 

The new derelict content is like level 30-40.

 

The content isn't designed for frames to be fighting level 100 enemies, so why the hell should the frames be designed to fight level 100 enemies?

[Enomilli]

Except like 99% of the game's content is under level 100.

 

Most of it under level 80.

 

The new derelict content is like level 30-40.

 

The content isn't designed for frames to be fighting level 100 enemies, so why the hell should the frames be designed to fight level 100 enemies?

Because we have the ability to fight even level 200 enemies?

[SanityRobot]

 

Because we have the ability to fight even level 200 enemies?

 

 

High wave defense doesn't count as content, sorry.

 

Using that logic, frames should be able to kill level 1000 enemies because "we have the ability to fight them".

[Nickeltoe]

Nerf it all till everything is just a skin and all things have same stats.

 

Then PvP crowd is happy and the nerf d-bags are as well.

[neKroMancer]

High wave defense doesn't count as content, sorry.

 

Using that logic, frames should be able to kill level 1000 enemies because "we have the ability to fight them".

 

Frankly, I don't get why people have been using this 'high wave' as an excuse not to balance the game. It's infinite scaling. Buff everything's performance to match with level 200 will result only in death of lower level content and inflated stat which lead to even more bloated stat when someone manage to get level 300 and community requests buffing all the thing to level 9000.

[TheResult]

Nerf it all till everything is just a skin and all things have same stats.

 

Then PvP crowd is happy and the nerf d-bags are as well.

 

Make every frame and weapon kill every enemy in one shot, and unlock them for every person with no effort! That's how real games do it!

 

And while we're at it, every time we get hit by a bullet, Nintendo should give us the option to have Mario play the game on autopilot so we don't have to. Playing games is too hard, I just want to drink a Dr. Pepper and watch things die.

[Enomilli]

High wave defense doesn't count as content, sorry.

 

Using that logic, frames should be able to kill level 1000 enemies because "we have the ability to fight them".

 

Someone must be forgetting about the  void as well. Maybe not level 200 but other level enemies are there as well.

 

Though going by your logic that opposes mine, let's keep the frames made for level 20 enemies and proceed to fight level 100 enemies.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Ystella

[SanityRobot]

Though going by your logic that opposes mine, let's keep the frames made for level 20 enemies and proceed to fight level 100 enemies.

 

Sounds like a lot of fun, honestly. I'd love for a challenge to exist before wave 50 endless defense.

[Enomilli]

Sounds like a lot of fun, honestly. I'd love for a challenge to exist before wave 50 endless defense.

 

Of course challenges are fun but the point of this game is for Warframe abilities to exist along side guns as a secondary option.

 

Not do 10 damage when guns are still going 500 damage.

 

Sad thing is I'm not exaggerating those numbers.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Ystella

[HAYABU5A]

molecular prime nerf - to be exact 

[Zakalwe]

Nova is made for things like T3 Void runs and level 100+ enemies as should all frames be made for?

You don't balance content against the extremes.

The reason M.Prime is overpowered is because, in 90% of the game! a nova can remove all threat from an area before a team mate has had the chance to contribute. Any standard level in game aside from a higher defense or mobile defense, and I can clear rooms using a nova before my team knows what's happened.

This is bad for co-op. Co-op is about people contributing together, not watching a Nova prime the room and remove all opportunity for interaction.

[Icebreccer]

What is it with you people that you can't see that Nova's ultimate is just too good compared to most of the others? It does craploads of damage, has a huge radius, slows the enemies AND makes them take double damage. Easy way to make it more balanced is to just take away the slowdown and the debuff. Also adding some kind of casting animation would do something too.

Or why do you think people are whining about Nova that much? If so many people are pissed off about it, I think there is a reason to dig up that nerf hammer and start smacking the Nova. M. Prime spamming is just for the weak and boring people.

But I guess that I don't care that much about what happens to Nova. I play private with my friend all the time and neither of us likes to use Nova.

[Inez]

What is it with you people that you can't see that Nova's ultimate is just too good compared to most of the others? It does craploads of damage, has a huge radius, slows the enemies AND makes them take double damage. Easy way to make it more balanced is to just take away the slowdown and the debuff. Also adding some kind of casting animation would do something too.

Or why do you think people are whining about Nova that much? If so many people are &!$$ed off about it, I think there is a reason to dig up that nerf hammer and start smacking the Nova. M. Prime spamming is just for the weak and boring people.

But I guess that I don't care that much about what happens to Nova. I play private with my friend all the time and neither of us likes to use Nova.

It's a coop game. We're all working toward the same goal. Even if Nova is OP, she is using her power against your enemies.

 

[Trainer772]

If Mprime didn't give double the damage on primed bosses I'd be fine with that nerf.

 

If they didn't nerf Nova I'd be happier.

[SanityRobot]

 

Of course challenges are fun but the point of this game is for Warframe abilities to exist along side guns as a secondary option.

 

Not do 10 damage when guns are still going 500 damage.

 

Sad thing is I'm not exaggerating those numbers.

 

Yes, most weapons are way too strong and power creep in weapons is also ruining the game.

[General_Krull]

Nova is the epitome of why I play Warframe.  Nerf Nova and the game becomes Nerframe.

 

You can sell it however you want, but, the fact is that she is good fun for me and a lot of other players and we deserve to have fun as much as anyone else.  Our money is as good as anyone elses.  So, I hope DE comes up with some creative ways to solve your problem without it becoming my problem.

 

So your fun is more important than everyone elses? Her skills need balancing. You now have one frame that can do everything. How is that fun?

 

Quote from Steve in one of the live stream.

" Don't nerf X, make X as good as Y. Message received, and understood. "

" Vauban and Nova is the new standards. "

And Vauban got nerfed. How about that.

[TheResult]

It's a coop game. We're all working toward the same goal. Even if Nova is OP, she is using her power against your enemies.

 

I can appreciate that you're actually so enriched by Warframe that you can only comprehend our enemies as being the only true evil; but this is real life, and we aren't Tenno. In real life, games need balancing so that they aren't too easy or too hard. In real life, the developers want the endgame to be difficult no matter what frame or weapon you use, because they need this game to have longevity. In real life, a frame that's obviously preferable to all the others needs balancing, because then people won't buy or play with the others.

 

In real life, the blood of our enemies isn't actually the only thing that matters.

 

Try to step back and look at the broader picture rather than your immediate gratification.

[yessiree]

BUT I LIKE PRESSING 4 AND WATCH S#&$ FLY

[LongDraw]

Just knock her M. Prime ability down to a max of 12 targets that can be primed 8{D

[Wiegraf]

Let's take a step back and see a few things in perspective :

 

Firstly, those who claim that X frame is not viable against Lv.200 enemies and high waves, that's completely intended. The devs have said several times that balance does not take into account absurdly high level defense waves since it's an infinite scaling process. Thus, you cannot balance a frame infinitely against such extremes.

 

Second, if you look at one of the highest, void mission available with a defined end, being T3 Defense, you'll notice it's not "infinite" but capped to 20 waves. Thus, you have to consider then that the optimal challenge would be whatever enemies comes out at the 20th wave of a T3 Defense; anything above is completely out there and for a personal challenge only. Likewise, it's logical to assume that 'any' defense mission, at their core, is intended to be played up to wave 20 for the current power level of the player for a given level range.

 

Thus, if you take those two points together, you come to the conclusion that ALL FRAMES, which ever they are, should at one point be balanced to be viable for content from Lv.1 to Lv.~120. Going over that threshold is going into incertain territory. As it stands now, a few frames are lacking for that range while others do well.

 

Going back to Nova's situation, right now her abilities are much that of a glass cannon; do lots of damage / enhance damage dealing capabilities but breaks in two the moment she takes a shot the wrong way. That is intended. What is to see then is if her damage should be increased/decreased or her survivability improved/reduced within the parameters of a 1~120 content challenge as well as seeing other frames improved to that level of effectiveness or her own reduced to come inline with that content's range.

[low1991]

 

This is not a flame bait thread I swear.

 

 

 

I've just seen people talk about it in a condescending way.

 

 

 

DE said they would buff other frames, not nerf Nova.

 

                                                                                 What is this happening for?

 

yay to nerd Mprime.

sad face if nerd is on AM drop