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Loki Rework Ideas


Suchy1555
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I was playing Loki for a few days, and realised I only play him for his second skill. Only. And I believe most of the players do it too. He's cool idea, but poor execution. Plain and boring to play, with only 1 (well, 2 counting his ult) useful skill. Here I have a few ideas to make him more interesting.

 

1. Decoy - This skill ill utterly useless. The fact that Decoy has health makes it so. My idea is to make its duration shorter, cast time faster (because Loki is really easy to kill), make it possible to cast while moving (because movement is crucial to paper frame like Loki) and remove its health, so it can be usable even at high levels.

This changes would make it actually useful in taking enemy aggro away from you and your team. Like I said before, Decoy's health drops to zero literally the moment Loki finishes his animation. Reworking it like that, would make it useful while still maintaining fluidity of gameplay and it keeps the idea of Loki being a trickster in the first place.

 

2. Invisibility - Bread and butter of Loki. It can't be taken away from him because of obvious reasons. It could be left as it is, but I have a little idea how to change it to make it more interesting. The idea came from movies like "Predator" or similar. While Loki is more of a trickster than a hunter, I believe this change would make him more interactive and engaging to play. The idea is to make this ability make Loki invisible, and let him increase the damage of next attacks more, the longer he is not attacking.

I dont have exact numbers in mind but I believe his gameplay would look something like that after the rework: Pop Invisibility to let it build up extra damage for a moment, choose your target, use Decoy to draw attention, of enemies, quickly attack chosen target (or targets, as I think this buff to damage shouldnt work only on 1 attack, as it would be annoying to use), and just before enemies start attacking you, run away, or use his third Ability, which I described below.

 

3. Switch Teleport - Again - cool idea, poor execution. Second useless ability. Simple change, I propose, is to make this ability set super high aggro on enemy you switched with, so enemies would target and attack him (probably with some damage multiplier) and make Loki draw zero aggro for a few seconds. This ability would be a little panic button to slip away from a dangerous situation and inflict some damage (or maybe debuffs even) on chosen enemy.

 

4. Radial Disarm - and this ability is simple and pretty useful. Currently I don't have any ideas on how to change it, and I believe it actually does not need changing, especially with reworks mentioned above.

 

 

I'm open to criticism (and even listening why I'm just using Loki wrong XD) but even if not these, I believe Loki should be renewed ASAP.

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2nd skill is for when you just want the mission overwith with the least bit of hassle

4th ability, is really strong, even more-so with irradiating disarm augment, if energy is managed then you can win most missions with a spam range build around this ability no sweat

3rd ability is for, trolling OR go fast escort missions on Cetus, although some would claim that nova holes are faster

now, back in the days of U7-U8 Loki's first ability had forced aggro pull of all enemies on the level no matter where they were, it was one hell of a broken ability back then, put decoy in a crack or under stairs and the enemy would just freeze and do nothing, but now the kit around Loki's first is pretty good with survival using the augment, or when you pair decoy with banish it's very effective, you just need to expand your mind to ways of using these abilities.

Loki has been by far the most well balanced and rounded, any changes would be hard to justify, though not ruling the possibility out. just don't be a twit and suggest things you want just because you want them.

decoy could gain a percentage of damage reflect +damage% increase shots fired at Loki's decoy have a 80% capped chance of rebounding and doing 2x-?x the damage

3rd ability change would be interesting if you could hold and charge it up into a sort of scramble teleport AOE or group swap with +2-5 energy per additional enemy?

radial disarm getting a similar ult akin to nova's MP or mag's magnetize would, maybe be a better change, or it might not.

but it's a difficult argument to justify doing any sort of change, changing just for the sake of change, a flashy new paint job and spiffy altered powers, won't change Loki and what the frame is themed around amounts to wasting dev-time trying to fix what's not broken.

torn between choices, let the developers do their thing, wait and see, whatever happens, happens.

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Wouldn't it all be simpler if Loki's 1 was based completely on duration or at least had some sort of mechanic to let it scale the way revenant's mesmer skin does?

And if his 3 only swapped with his decoy so you don't need to aim it or anything? That would make it a whole lot more useful imo. 

 

On 2019-12-21 at 10:07 PM, MakeLuvNotWerFrame said:

3rd ability is for, trolling OR go fast escort missions on Cetus, although some would claim that nova holes are faster

now, back in the days of U7-U8 Loki's first ability had forced aggro pull of all enemies on the level no matter where they were, it was one hell of a broken ability back then, put decoy in a crack or under stairs and the enemy would just freeze and do nothing, but now the kit around Loki's first is pretty good with survival using the augment, or when you pair decoy with banish it's very effective, you just need to expand your mind to ways of using these abilities.
 

 

Okay well cheesing a very specific type of mission and trolling is not exactly a good reason for his 3rd ability to exist. It has little to no combat capability and sees basically no use during 99% of missions. The slot for that ability is just collecting dust, and that makes playing the frame monotonous. 

So his 1st ability can be useful if you hide it away in a place it will never be touched? That kinda defeats the purpose of a decoy. If an ability needs another warframe to make it work good enough to make it viable it will again just be collecting dust in 99% of missions and make playing the frame boring. 

Remember this isn't about making the frame viable or more effective. It's about making the frame fun to play with in a variety of ways. That generally means using all the warframe's abilities and having some synergy between those abilities that encourages using all of them without becoming so simple that it bores the people using it. Without a doubt Loki has a pretty boring kit. That doesn't make him a bad frame, it just means he could use some tweaks to bring him up to speed with other warframes out there. 

 

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On 2019-12-21 at 8:43 PM, Suchy1555 said:

I was playing Loki for a few days, and realised I only play him for his second skill. Only. And I believe most of the players do it too. He's cool idea, but poor execution. Plain and boring to play, with only 1 (well, 2 counting his ult) useful skill. Here I have a few ideas to make him more interesting.

 

1. Decoy - This skill ill utterly useless. The fact that Decoy has health makes it so. My idea is to make its duration shorter, cast time faster (because Loki is really easy to kill), make it possible to cast while moving (because movement is crucial to paper frame like Loki) and remove its health, so it can be usable even at high levels.

This changes would make it actually useful in taking enemy aggro away from you and your team. Like I said before, Decoy's health drops to zero literally the moment Loki finishes his animation. Reworking it like that, would make it useful while still maintaining fluidity of gameplay and it keeps the idea of Loki being a trickster in the first place.

 

2. Invisibility - Bread and butter of Loki. It can't be taken away from him because of obvious reasons. It could be left as it is, but I have a little idea how to change it to make it more interesting. The idea came from movies like "Predator" or similar. While Loki is more of a trickster than a hunter, I believe this change would make him more interactive and engaging to play. The idea is to make this ability make Loki invisible, and let him increase the damage of next attacks more, the longer he is not attacking.

I dont have exact numbers in mind but I believe his gameplay would look something like that after the rework: Pop Invisibility to let it build up extra damage for a moment, choose your target, use Decoy to draw attention, of enemies, quickly attack chosen target (or targets, as I think this buff to damage shouldnt work only on 1 attack, as it would be annoying to use), and just before enemies start attacking you, run away, or use his third Ability, which I described below.

 

3. Switch Teleport - Again - cool idea, poor execution. Second useless ability. Simple change, I propose, is to make this ability set super high aggro on enemy you switched with, so enemies would target and attack him (probably with some damage multiplier) and make Loki draw zero aggro for a few seconds. This ability would be a little panic button to slip away from a dangerous situation and inflict some damage (or maybe debuffs even) on chosen enemy.

 

4. Radial Disarm - and this ability is simple and pretty useful. Currently I don't have any ideas on how to change it, and I believe it actually does not need changing, especially with reworks mentioned above.

 

 

I'm open to criticism (and even listening why I'm just using Loki wrong XD) but even if not these, I believe Loki should be renewed ASAP.

All these other versions of Loki has a decoy that causes self harm. Be nice if our Loki could the same. Maybe a little different where the decoy absorbs all damage and becomes the primary target(range affects enemies further away). When the timer goes out then the decoy returns all damage it absorbed to all enemies within the radius. Or just every enemy that shot at it. 
 

Forth does a lot by disarming the enemies. Be nice if it reached further for extreme wide maps like PoE. Be also nice if it reduced enemy armor and shield to a certain degree as well. Maybe not 100% but close enough. So it would be useful against bosses too. After all, Loki loves leaving people weak and vulnerable.
 

Third I definitely agree. Other than trolling, third is nothing but a waste. Maybe him gaining like a short invincibility while the guy he switches with sort gets a radiation proc that makes other enemies attack him instead would be a simple yet better improvement than the currently existing third. 
 

Second, I feel should already be hushed. Maybe as a new augment, enemies that he attacks(while invisible) but survive turn against their own due to not knowing who attacked them. Like he inflicts a sort of permanent radiation proc that goes away if he gets spotted. After all, Loki loves to manipulate others. 
 

So imagine the synergy between the Forth and the First that would allow Loki to be able to kill enemies with his abilities. And his Second and Third would be good distractions and survivability. 
 

Just my opinion. Btw, I use maxed range Loki in PoE to disarm enemies and speed up the drone traveling. And I use him to bring Liches close to enemies to thrall. 

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I agree Loki needs a rework. Have one suggestion in my compendium thread here:

Spoiler

Loki Trickster Rework

Premise: The theme for Loki is “the trickster” and “the deceiver.” Overall, he has seemed to hold up well since his release in Vanilla, but a few changes to his abilities would improve his kit so he is more on par with the more “meta” warframes, and to really play up the “trickster” theme.

 

Stats: No change. A trickery frame should not be about durability or raw damage mitigation. Loki’s current stats are low, but that fits the frame and its play style.

 

Passive: No change. Loki’s passive isn’t amazing. But this rework is more about his active abilities, and his passive is not really a problem as is.

 

Current 1st Ability:  Decoy: Loki deploys a holographic copy of himself, drawing enemy fire.

400 shields, 200 health, lasts 25 seconds, does no damage, but can inflict impact, puncture, and slash procs.

Current Augment: Savior Decoy: Decoy absorbs fatal damage for Loki, changing places. Reduced cast time by 50%.

Suggested Changes to Decoy –

  • Decoy can now be deployed onto a targeted enemy. If deployed in this manner, the health, armor, and shields of decoy now equal that of the targeted enemy. The enemy is rooted in place for the duration of the ability.

  • Decoy’s base health, armor, and shields when not deployed on a targeted enemy equal Loki’s health, armor, and shields.

  • Loki's Decoy no longer inflicts physical status procs. Instead, inflicts radiation procs on enemies with its secondary.

  • Augment change: Suspicious Decoy: If Decoy dies before the duration expires, it inflicts a radiation proc on enemies within 5/8/10/15 meters. (affected by ability range)

 

Current 2nd Ability: No change. Invisibility is objectively a great ability. Loki has the base duration to make great use of the ability, and it is basically a great defensive ability.

 

Current 3rd Ability: Switch Teleport: Loki instantaneously swaps positions with a target, confusing the enemy.

Current Augment: Safeguard Switch: After teleporting with an ally they will be invulnerable for 6 seconds.

Suggested Changes to Switch Teleport –

  • When switching with an enemy, inflict a radiation proc on the enemy being switched with.

  • When switching with an ally, add +50% Radiation damage to Loki's weapons and 50% Radiation damage to the ally's weapons for 30 seconds. (Unaffected by ability strength, affected by Ability Duration)

  • Augment: No change.

 

Current 4th ability: No change. Radiant Disarm is already legitimately a great ability with an augment that fixes its weakness against the Infested.

 

Reasons for these changes: Creating an illusion on an enemy allows Loki to improve the durability of his Decoy by deploying it on stronger enemies so that other enemies can focus them down for Loki and his allies. Further, having the decoy now apply radiation procs increases the chaos on the field. The augment change would also be well received, as the nature of Savior Decoy right now is that the decoy already draws enough enmity to essentially die before ever making use of this augment anyways, particularly in higher missions. With Switch Teleport, inflicting an enemy with a radiation proc means the enemy switched with attracts enemy fire at Loki’s previous location. Adding radiation damage to Loki and ally weapons also increases the confusion on the field.

Inspiration for this rework concept comes from Marvel Studio's Movie Thor The Dark World, based on Loki's powers

 

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On 2019-12-21 at 8:43 PM, Suchy1555 said:

I was playing Loki for a few days, and realised I only play him for his second skill. Only. And I believe most of the players do it too. He's cool idea, but poor execution. Plain and boring to play, with only 1 (well, 2 counting his ult) useful skill. Here I have a few ideas to make him more interesting.

 

1. Decoy - This skill ill utterly useless. The fact that Decoy has health makes it so. My idea is to make its duration shorter, cast time faster (because Loki is really easy to kill), make it possible to cast while moving (because movement is crucial to paper frame like Loki) and remove its health, so it can be usable even at high levels.

This changes would make it actually useful in taking enemy aggro away from you and your team. Like I said before, Decoy's health drops to zero literally the moment Loki finishes his animation. Reworking it like that, would make it useful while still maintaining fluidity of gameplay and it keeps the idea of Loki being a trickster in the first place.

 

2. Invisibility - Bread and butter of Loki. It can't be taken away from him because of obvious reasons. It could be left as it is, but I have a little idea how to change it to make it more interesting. The idea came from movies like "Predator" or similar. While Loki is more of a trickster than a hunter, I believe this change would make him more interactive and engaging to play. The idea is to make this ability make Loki invisible, and let him increase the damage of next attacks more, the longer he is not attacking.

I dont have exact numbers in mind but I believe his gameplay would look something like that after the rework: Pop Invisibility to let it build up extra damage for a moment, choose your target, use Decoy to draw attention, of enemies, quickly attack chosen target (or targets, as I think this buff to damage shouldnt work only on 1 attack, as it would be annoying to use), and just before enemies start attacking you, run away, or use his third Ability, which I described below.

 

3. Switch Teleport - Again - cool idea, poor execution. Second useless ability. Simple change, I propose, is to make this ability set super high aggro on enemy you switched with, so enemies would target and attack him (probably with some damage multiplier) and make Loki draw zero aggro for a few seconds. This ability would be a little panic button to slip away from a dangerous situation and inflict some damage (or maybe debuffs even) on chosen enemy.

 

4. Radial Disarm - and this ability is simple and pretty useful. Currently I don't have any ideas on how to change it, and I believe it actually does not need changing, especially with reworks mentioned above.

 

 

I'm open to criticism (and even listening why I'm just using Loki wrong XD) but even if not these, I believe Loki should be renewed ASAP.

I wrote down an idea for an ability change for Loki's 4th ability, as i don't like the current one. i never really gave the other three too much thought, and like your take on them. Feel free to give my change a read and tell me what you think.

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