Fixing self damage (and a big reason it needs to stay)

[(NSW)Mystc]

While removal is better than leaveing the old self damage model in, removing it altogether is a terrible idea. If you remove it, there's no reason anyone should use anything other than lenz, bramma, and prisma angstrum. Sure other weapons can one shot pretty much anything, those can one shot everything, it's buddy, that other guy it doesn't like on the other side of the room, and timmy down the street that doesn't even know there's a battle happenning, all in the same shot. And before you say it, I don't use chroma regularly, and never felt gimpping one of my guns to build the buffs was worth it. So about fixing it, here's what I think:

Each instance of self damage does 35% of your max health as true damage. That way, there's still a risk to the power, but it isn't instant death just because the projectile clipped some weird collision randomly. Also a more general fix, but is really needed for this: your projectiles pass through any allied entity. That way, little timmy wandering infront of you just as you fire isn't a bad time, nor is the 3rd time your space cat decides to be in your face right as you fire

If it needs a certin distance between you and the target before it'll explode, it doesn't do self damage. These need a very specific thing to happen to even cause self damage, which most players probably won't do anyways.

Remove cautious shot entirely, and give a more reasonable replacement. That mod has such a bad reputation, there's no saving it. It's the worst mod in the game period. The replacement is simple enough to work: a mod, dropped by bombards, that has a base cost of 3 and 5 ranks. Its effect is simple:

At max rank

-100% self damage

-90% explosion radius

With this eqquiped, you no longer hurt yourself, but you no longer kill everything in front of you in a single shot. Contrasting this, firestorm gets a few changes:

At max rank

+70% explosive radius

Self damage increases to 80% of max health

Now you can choose just how much rish you're willing to take, and are rewarded accordingly by being able to kill more for a higher risk.

Probably forgot something, but there's how I'd do self damage. Feel free to use it DE.

Edited March 3, 2020 by (NSW)Mystc

[Thural]

No, get rid of it, it needs to be gone.

[Rodeskun]

losing a game why you brahma explodes in your face, it is frustrating, although removing the self damage will also bring abuse to this, one solution would be to reduce the damage caused by the weapon to the player, another could be a damage counter, let's say  you receive 5 explosions in a row, this is equivalent to draining the player's entire life, but if you last for a period of 10 sec without taking damage from your own weapon, it goes back to 0

[xZeromusx]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Mystc said:

If you remove it, there's no reason anyone should use anything other than lenz, bramma, and prisma angstrum.

In the next mainline, you're still going to be punished by these weapons if you don't have some skill when using them. Getting staggered or possibly knocked down is still an incentive to not blast yourself in the face with these weapons. You MIGHT one shot the high level enemy, but if you don't, they MIGHT beat on your face as you try to recover, or other enemies might do it for them. Punishment comes in forms other than self-damage.

[Rodeskun]

hace 4 minutos, xZeromusx dijo:

In the next mainline, you're still going to be punished by these weapons if you don't have some skill when using them. Getting staggered or possibly knocked down is still an incentive to not blast yourself in the face with these weapons. You MIGHT one shot the high level enemy, but if you don't, they MIGHT beat on your face as you try to recover, or other enemies might do it for them. Punishment comes in forms other than self-damage.

hahaha, I understand perfectly what you say, but it is not the idea to go for a boss, and win, but lose why you lost your lives with your weapon, you have to keep in mind that so be careful, an enemy can appear in front of you,  and it's the main problem that mechanics has, although I don't think it's a good idea to remove it, it should simply be improved

[moarmasx]

hace 8 minutos, (NSW)Mystc dijo:

Each instance of self damage does 35% of your max health as true damage. That way, there's still a risk to the power, but it isn't instant death just because the projectile clipped some weird collision randomly. Also a more general fix, but is really needed for this: your projectiles pass through any allied entity. That way, little timmy wandering infront of you just as you fire isn't a bad time, nor is the 3rd time your space cat decides to be in your face right as you fire

The part that the explosion causes a fixed damage to health and does not kill us with a shot serves as a warning. It seems a reasonable solution.

 

hace 9 minutos, (NSW)Mystc dijo:

If you remove it, there's no reason anyone should use anything other than lenz, bramma, and prisma angstrum.

That is simply not true. People will continue to prefer to use a lenz or bramma whether or not self-damage. Because even the worst weapon with AoE that nobody uses can kill us with one shot like any other and does not justify its power. So I see it better to eliminate it or make it not kill us suddenly.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

13 hours ago, moarmasx said:

The part that the explosion causes a fixed damage to health and does not kill us with a shot serves as a warning. It seems a reasonable solution.

 

That is simply not true. People will continue to prefer to use a lenz or bramma whether or not self-damage. Because even the worst weapon with AoE that nobody uses can kill us with one shot like any other and does not justify its power. So I see it better to eliminate it or make it not kill us suddenly.

Agreed 100%

[(PSN)SpartanLegend_27]

14 hours ago, (NSW)Mystc said:

. If you remove it, there's no reason anyone should use anything other than lenz, bramma, and prisma angstrum. 

That's simply not true. A: there's going to be dragged on them, which can open you up to get nuked in high level missions. B: This assumption is made thinking all players care about is what pumps the best numbers in the widest areas. I for one will still be sticking to my Zenith or Hek, because those weapons are more fun for me.

The many negatives self damage has far outweigh the positives. It's not worth trying to improve either, cause even if you balanced self damage perfectly, most warframes already trivialize missions. No point in trying to keep a mechanic that isn't fun and has a negligible effect on game balance when you're literally playing walking nukes, in my opinion.