Combine "Bleeding Willow" and "Shimmering Blight"

[Kainosh]

Both of these have only 2 combos.

Its not fun to have 2 Stance mods each with 2 combos.   Its much better to have 1 Stance with 4 combos.

 

Yes, i know about  "More important things" and "Twirling spire". 

[Xolgys]

agree with u.

whilst they do this they can also update whip stances to 2020 status since the melee 3.0 didnt do anything good on that end. they are still as terrible as before. its not even the multipliers or forced proccs alone...they feel bad and perform poorly too which is one reason why whips are unpopular from what i can tell. i like the idea of whips for sure, but no matter what stats the weapons have if the gameplay feels meh then why bother when there are so many alternatives, even for that amount of range. 2m less range and a fun, good melee instead ? thats not even a question for me.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Xydeth

[ALCHElVlY]

9 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

agree with u.

whilst they do this they can also update whip stances to 2020 status since the melee 3.0 didnt do anything good on that end. they are still as terrible as before. its not even the multipliers or forced proccs alone...they feel bad and perform poorly too which is one reason why whips are unpopular from what i can tell. i like the idea of whips for sure, but no matter what stats the weapons have if the gameplay feels meh then why bother when there are so many alternatives, even for that amount of range. 2m less range and a fun, good melee instead ? thats not even a question for me.

I agree with you on this 100%

[CopperBezel]

Yes please. Once combos were accessible with Phase 2 I got a Twirling Spire and never looked at Bleeding Willow again. But Twirling Spire is also the pokey-stabby-stab-slam stance. I want a slashy one for my bladier polearms, the ones that are more pudao than spear. Bleeding Willow and Shimmering Blight are both slashy, but they suck now. So combining them to make one complete stance would be aces.

Edited March 12, 2020 by CopperBezel

[shut]

As someone who's been using SB and BW Polearms almost exclusively since Melee 3.0: I'm against this.

Both stances' W+M2 combos are very mobile, meaning that if the stances were merged, the third combo would either have to go into:

• M2+E (which is unintuitive, since M2+E combos are typically stationary), or
• W+E (which completely prevents the default combo from being used while moving forward).

On top of this, the absence of W+E combo makes SB and BW two of the very, VERY few stances that are properly compatible with having the "align attacks to camera" option disabled (which is practically mandatory for those of us that played Vindictus / Monster Hunter / etc before joining Warframe). Of these ~five stances, SB and BW are arguably the only ones that aren't crap.
Right now, attacking with W+E, A+E, S+E, or D+E (or W+A+E, S+D+E, etc) performs the exact same action in different directions-- but giving W+E a brand-new command would break this entirely. No thank you.

 

I've always seen Bleeding Willow and Shimmering Blight as being two slight variations of the exact same role. The simplicity is a large part of their appeal. Merging the stances would likely break a lot of things and cause more harm than good.

Edited March 12, 2020 by SortaRandom

[CopperBezel]

If they're slight variations of each other and also internally have no variation, can we at least have one of them changed to have internal variation and get all four moves? = o

[shut]

12 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

If they're slight variations of each other and also internally have no variation, can we at least have one of them changed to have internal variation and get all four moves? = o

I'd rather both of them got suitable M2 combos. It would address the "too-simple" issue on both stances without introducing any downsides for current fans, since M2+E can simply be avoided if the player dislikes it (unlike W+E).

SB and BW have similar roles, but are still subtly different enough that players have a real choice between the two (e.g. SB has wider hitboxes on its gap-closer, whereas BW has a much longer+taller hitbox at the cost of being a bit narrower). Simply "completing" one of the stances without touching the other would effectively remove this choice for keyboard-aiming players like myself, which is a big no-no.

Edited March 12, 2020 by SortaRandom

[CopperBezel]

Yeah, I'd still rather have a distinct advancing combo than have free movement in the standard combo, but even if they both kept that and just got a good guard combo I'd probably use one of them. Three moves is better than two, and it's an entirely fair tradeoff for the free movement in the basic combo.

[TRPBWhite]

Free movement on the basic combo has been the wish i had fulfilled when the new stances came forward. I would absolutely not being against a standing guard combo, however.

[Kainosh]

13 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

Both stances' W+M2 combos are very mobile,

Both are almost same.  Difference is this : Howling Gale starts with Helicopter jump (multiple slashes), while Drifting Steel starts with Slam jump.  Both combos end with some normal slashes.

I kinda wanted it like this:

Slam leap on a W+ Block + E.  Gap closer with a slam

Helicopter on W+E.  Gap closer with multiple slashes.  Also works as forward motion combo. Less distance than Slam leap.

Normal slashes would be on E  (Lethal Gust and Slashing wind...they are same in both stances)

Block + E is for those "ending slashes" from both Howling Gale and Drifting Steel.

 

So... Every move stays......  Because there is too few to begin with. 

13 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

Monster Hunter

You play MHW?

[shut]

2 hours ago, Kainosh said:

I kinda wanted it like this:

Slam leap on a W+ Block + E.  Gap closer with a slam

Helicopter on W+E.  Gap closer with multiple slashes.  Also works as forward motion combo. Less distance than Slam leap.

Introducing literally anything to W+E is what I'm against. Playing with "align attacks to camera" disabled virtually necessitates that W+E is unbound, so merging SB+BW in this way would essentially remove Polearms from our already-tiny list of playable stance options.
It's not even restricted to players like myself, either-- being able to WASD freely using the default camera-lock is still a huge part of the appeal of both stances.

SB and BW are already functional and viable as is. Merging the stances as you would describe would simply ruin the whole thing for many current SB/BW users. And to the benefit of people who... probably aren't even using these stances in the first place?
Absolutely not worth it. You already have a variety of options in the other >90% of stances. We don't.

 

2 hours ago, Kainosh said:

You play MHW?

I've only played ~20 hours or so. I realize that it probably wasn't the best example for this situation because of how slow/methodical something like rotating your character is in that game, but you get the idea-- not being locked to camera direction is important. Ever more so when the game is as fast-paced as Warframe.

[VentiGlondi]

The silly thing is that the neutral combo on both of those is exactly the same.

If you were to combine them you'd still be missing one combo

 

[CopperBezel]

3 hours ago, Kainosh said:

Helicopter on W+E.  Gap closer with multiple slashes.  Also works as forward motion combo. Less distance than Slam leap.

One other disadvantage for combining them is that despite their lack of an neutral advancing combo and a standing guard combo, the advancing guard is very distinctly and unavoidably an advancing guard type move in both that works the way advancing guards work for every other stance. So it'd be kind of weird to have either of these moves as the regular advancing combo, which is normally quick steps forward you can steer as opposed to a big leap you aim.

[Kainosh]

I play MHW on controller...990 hrs, no issues with controls so far.  And i play Warframe with Camera aligned melee on kb +m. Pretty comfortable. 

44 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

It's not even restricted to players like myself, either-- being able to WASD freely using the default camera-lock is still a huge part of the appeal of both stances.

Thats sad.

I mean....Restricting yourself like that....Playing with only one weapon type and like....2 stances that are identical.... 

Shouldnt you ask DE to let you disable certain stance combos?  I mean...that will let you enjoy more weapons....and you will not have to fuc with my suggestion here at all! Win-win!

 

Also, there is another wae:

You keep your SB and BW......And i get a merged version as a NEW stance!  Also makes everyone happy. 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Kainosh

[shut]

24 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

Shouldnt you ask DE to let you disable certain stance combos? I mean...that will let you enjoy more weapons....and you will not have to fuc with my suggestion here at all! Win-win!

I have. That's the sad part.
UI mockup from a while back, added to "Melee Combos" menu:

I've also requested other customization options as well, like the options to:

• activate moving combos with ASD as well as W if "align attacks to camera" is disabled
• swap stance-specific controls (e.g. swapping the neutral combo and W combo in Iron Phoenix, because who the hell thought it was a good idea to give neutral combo more forward momentum than the forward combo)

Stuff like this, right there on the first page of the Melee 3.0 feedback megathread. Of course, nothing came of any of this.

I've been posting occasional feedback over the past ~6 years with almost none of my suggestions ever being implemented, so at this point I'm pretty used to DE not considering anything I have to say. It's still frustrating, though 😩

 

26 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

Also, there is another wae:

You keep your SB and BW......And i get a merged version as a NEW stance!  Also makes everyone happy. 

I would 100% be down with that! 

[Mephane]

I used to love Shimmering Blight, it was my favourite stance not just for polearms, but in general. Really nice AoE attacks on its main and forward combo while you are still able to move around freely, never stopped in your tracks nor lunging somewhere due to a combo.

Melee 3.0 however made the stance just very... boring, it basically spams the same two attacks over and over and the sound the weapon makes has a rhythm that I find particularly annoying. It feels cheap, sounds cheap, and and is generally a huge letdown.

I eventually switched to Twirling Spire. Not 100% a fan of the stance but at least it has a complete set of combos and can still do proper AoE attacks.

[xenoffense]

Great idea. Shimmering blight's main combo slashing wind is a 2 swipe combo. I know people like this combo and use it often but it looks kind of awful in how it repeats. Its like a modern day zoren copter especially since weapons like plague kripath are fairly meta. Please DE either combine these 2 or give them each 2 new combos.