Physx

[JariWeis]

Just a simple y/n question:

 

Should PhysX be allowed to run on your CPU when you have an AMD GPU?

[TisEric]

AMD doesn't support PhysX.

Nvidia Developed PhysX , Owns it , which is why its on their cards.

giving away the exclusivity would be dumb for them.

 

should it? maybe , its better for the consumers if it was. 

will it? never , its a dumb business decision to give your direct competitor free stuff.

Edited October 9, 2013 by TisEric

[Annnoth]

Yeah kinda like how AMD has the hair physics thing... I wish I had an nvidia card ;-;

Edited October 9, 2013 by theharddrinkingapplejack

[ArtfulPanda]

You can use hybrid physX but, still you need a nvidia card.

[JariWeis]

AMD doesn't support PhysX.

Nvidia Developed PhysX , Owns it , which is why its on their cards.

giving away the exclusivity would be dumb for them.

 

should it? maybe , its better for the consumers if it was. 

will it? never , its a dumb business decision to give your direct competitor free stuff.

 

AMD GPU's don't, with most games it can be ran on the CPU.

Warframe is the only one I own where that isn't an option.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

AMD doesn't support PhysX.

Nvidia Developed PhysX , Owns it , which is why its on their cards.

giving away the exclusivity would be dumb for them.

 

should it? maybe , its better for the consumers if it was. 

will it? never , its a dumb business decision to give your direct competitor free stuff.

Actually it's not a bad business decision IF and only IF physx ran THAT much better on Nvidia hardware. If all players got to see what PhysX looked like, really enjoyed using it, and found that it only runs optimally on Nvidia hardware it would be a great selling tool.

[Letter13]

No.

 

Should have bought an Nvidia. Don't care what you say, this is a valid response.

 

(Also the GPU PhysX effects that run in Warframe would cripple your CPU's performance. The number of particles the GPU PhysX calculates and displays on screen way, WAY higher than the PhysX effects in games like Borderlands 2 (which used low-poly fluid and cloth PhysX).)

[GottFaust]

This game already uses CPU PhysX for all physics calculations.

Ragdolls? CPU PhysX.

Syandanas? CPU PhysX.

Force applied via powers/weapons? CPU PhysX.

Vortex and Vacuum's ability to throw around items? CPU PhysX.

"Non-PhysX" Particles? CPU PhysX.

What the "PhysX" option enables are the GPU accelerated advanced features used to generate the massive particle count, complex particle movement, and extended particle lifetime. These features require GPU acceleration to run at an acceptable framerate. GPU accelerated PhysX requires CUDA cores which are only present on Nvidia cards as AMD is not willing, or is unable, to liscence it. AMD cards are physically incapable of running it as it stands.

A quote as proof:

Te remove the confusion, the game uses CPU PhysX.

However, some advanced effects use NVidia propietary technology. This is what you can activate in the graphics options in Warframe. Halas, this technology wont work with ATI cards and there's nothing we can do about it. You can always email your concerns to NVidia.

We made sure that these effects do not interfere with the gameplay.

Source: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/82785-physx-support/page-2#entry1085874 Edited October 10, 2013 by GottFaust

[TisEric]

Actually it's not a bad business decision IF and only IF physx ran THAT much better on Nvidia hardware. If all players got to see what PhysX looked like, really enjoyed using it, and found that it only runs optimally on Nvidia hardware it would be a great selling tool.

 

Depends... id argue it would just create a strife within the consumer base , "why is nvidia physx better then amd ? its by the same company! " and other such  things....  would create a feeling of being cheated or ripped off .

the selling point of physX is that its ONLY available on Nvidia ... and all the games that support it make a big deal out of it.

 

i would rather AMD makes their own version of it so we can have some more competition between them , PhysX hasn't really improved much...

 

 

AMD GPU's don't, with most games it can be ran on the CPU.

Warframe is the only one I own where that isn't an option.

 

Not the Complete set of features tho.

The Card based stuff is far more potent in games that actually adopt it instead of just  making some cloth move.

Edited October 10, 2013 by TisEric

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

No.

Should have bought an Nvidia. Don't care what you say, this is a valid response.

(Also the GPU PhysX effects that run in Warframe would cripple your CPU's performance. The number of particles the GPU PhysX calculates and displays on screen way, WAY higher than the PhysX effects in games like Borderlands 2 (which used low-poly fluid and cloth PhysX).)

Lol. This response basically says tough luck.

Sigh... It's not a big deal to me. I'm running dual video cards that were $400 a piece. Granted they're from 2009, but still handle everything beautifully. To drop $2-300 on a new Nvidia GPU is peanuts to me. I'm a NVDA shareholder lol. (And I'm worried about that actually)

Anyways, if physx effects were opened up to all hardware, but the hardware acceleration were only available on Nvidia hardware. It would help sales of Nvidia GPUs for people who enjoy those particle effects.

If the PhysX effects were really that desirable and people saw that on AMD hardware they couldn't get that same fluid gameplay, then yeah people will start buying more Nvidia GPUs.

About crippling CPUs. Well the PS4 will be rocking an AMD CPU and GPU. It's running PhysX. This is a win for Nvidia, because they get pure profit from licensing intellectual property, yet don't have to sell, develop and/or support any hardware at all. That is very good business.

Personally I was in the market to get a couple of 760 gtx cards to SLI, because they outperform the Titan (in most situations) which costs double to get. I was just about ready to pull the trigger a couple days ago until I heard Nvidia was dropping prices soon, because of the new AMD cards being stronger yet costing less.

Unfortunately though all Nvidia has going for it now are those particle effects, and going forward there's a new thing called Mantle that allot of studios are going to start using. (It's in BF4.)

At the moment, while I want to see the nice particle effects, I don't know if I want to get an Nvidia card and be without mantle. I also hear that Nvidia cards don't support the complete feature set of the latest version of DX11. (I also heard those features were minor too.)

This is a Warframe forum. Not an Nvidia vs. AMD fanboy battle. I'm sure all of us as PC owners here have gone between both sides and when purchasing a GPU it's just better to pick whatever is strongest and within budget.

So no.. "Tough cookies for you cuz you bought the wrong one.."

:)

Edited October 10, 2013 by sushidubya

[CompositeGNFNR]

Actually PhysX would run almost if not just as well on CPU if Nvidia would actually optimize it for that. They will not though due to trying to get people to buy their cards. This is why I will not buy Nvidia cards if I can help it.

 

(Source was an article published, was thrown about the forum quite a while ago.)

[Letter13]

Actually PhysX would run almost if not just as well on CPU if Nvidia would actually optimize it for that. They will not though due to trying to get people to buy their cards. This is why I will not buy Nvidia cards if I can help it.

 

(Source was an article published, was thrown about the forum quite a while ago.)

No, it really wouldn't. Calculating physics requires a lot of double precision and floating point calculations, neither of which traditional CPUs are very good at. GPUs on the other hand are very good at these sorts of calculations because 3D rendering also utilizes double precision and floating point calculations.

 

About crippling CPUs. Well the PS4 will be rocking an AMD CPU and GPU. It's running PhysX.

[...]

So no.. "Tough cookies for you cuz you bought the wrong one.."

You are aware that the PhysX software that will be running on the PS4 is the CPU PhysX instructions and not the GPU/CUDA accelerated PhysX, yes?

Because that's what's running on the PS4. Also the advanced PhysX effects in Warframe on the PS4 (pretty particles) are dumbed down from the PC counterpart (the number of actual particles being processed is severely cut down) because.... you guessed it! CPUs are not very efficient at the sorts of calculations needed to display the amount of particles that Nvidia GPUs can process. That isn't to say that some advanced PhysX can't be processed by the CPU, but to have the CPU execute/process the same level of quality that Nvidia GPUs can provide simply won't work, the CPU performance will drop considerably.

CPU = Jack of all trades, master of none

GPU = Specialized processing unit that decimates floating point and double precision calculations

Edited October 10, 2013 by Letter13

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

...

 

You are aware that the PhysX software that will be running on the PS4 is the CPU PhysX instructions and not the GPU/CUDA accelerated PhysX, yes?

Because that's what's running on the PS4. Also the advanced PhysX effects in Warframe on the PS4 (pretty particles) are dumbed down from the PC counterpart (the number of actual particles being processed is severely cut down) because.... you guessed it! CPUs are not very efficient at the sorts of calculations needed to display the amount of particles that Nvidia GPUs can process. That isn't to say that some advanced PhysX can't be processed by the CPU, but to have the CPU execute/process the same level of quality that Nvidia GPUs can provide simply won't work, the CPU performance will drop considerably.

CPU = Jack of all trades, master of none

GPU = Specialized processing unit that decimates floating point and double precision calculations

Yes on your reply to me. I'm aware... I've been building computers for close to 25 years. ;)

I know it'll probably be scaled back because there are no CUDA cores and yes, I have a couple of friends who've worked on some of the Marvel/DC movies doing CG animation, etc. They swear by Nvidia GPUS because the desktop versions that are bought for $500-999 are really based on the same silicon as those $5000-10000 cards that are being used to render CGI and special effects in those films.

Sorry if I made a big reply (a little flamey too) to your post earlier, but yeah I still maintain my point that enabling PhysX to run on AMD setups (even though they won't see the full benefits of GPU acceleration) is still not a bad idea for Nvidia as people who enjoy those effects will likely want to buy Nvidia hardware to get the best visual experience.

I wrote so much there and shared my personal experience because I was literally going to buy an Nvidia GPU just a couple days ago. Then upon further research I found that AMD has rebadged some of their higher end products to compete in the same price brackets with some of Nvidia's mid to lower end offereings. I also discovered that AMD is making a new card that's about $700 which will surpass the GTX Titan in performance. In response to this Nvidia is lowering prices, so I'm holding off for now.

Either way I'm not disagreeing with you, but I just felt the whole, "no tough luck to you" thing isn't the best approach when talking about graphics cards. I bought AMD in 2009, because during that time the GTX 480 (first GPU based on Fermi Architecture) was a thermal mess. Also at the time AMD was fully DX11 compliant, while Nvidia was still stuck on DX10.1.

Warframe is the one game I can say I've played for over 600 hours. The fact that it's using PhysX has seriously got me wanting to get a Nvidia GPU. I like all the sparkly stuff that I see on the videos from time to time.

However unless the 800 series offers more than more cuda cores, memory bandwidth, etc. I'm not sure Nvidia is the way to go right now.

Sadly, we don't even know if DX12 is being worked on or not and considering that AMD hardware is in both the XBONE and PS4 it's also another factor right now. Unfortunately AMD IS trying to do the same thing Nvidia did with PhysX, by introducing something proprietary which is Mantle. Nvidia GPUs will not be able to work with Mantle in the same way AMD GPUs won't work with Physx.

Sigh.. No one knows lol. Mantle could just be a bunch of hype that never lives up to its name. Everyone knows that PhysX was introduced years ago and only recently (past couple of years) are we really seeing what it can really do.

My comments are just observations from what I see going on in the GPU market, because I'm in the market for a new GPU recently.

Edited October 10, 2013 by sushidubya

[GottFaust]

Yes, please degenerate into arguments about about semantics while completely ignoring the fact that Warframe already uses CPU PhysX to the limit of its capabilities without destroying the framerate...

You can't enable what is already enabled.

[razorbak92]

NVIDIA PSHYX it's a feature of NVIDIA Video cards. If you don't have a NVIDIA, you can't use it.

[Letter13]

Yes on your reply to me. I'm aware... I've been building computers for close to 25 years. ;)

-snip-

tl;dr

No but really. Gonna upvote your posts now because you do know your stuff. Also CUDA is the bee's knees. Nvidia really did score big when they released it and made it programmer friendly.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

tl;dr

No but really. Gonna upvote your posts now because you do know your stuff. Also CUDA is the bee's knees. Nvidia really did score big when they released it and made it programmer friendly.

Yah.. t'was big wall of txt like. lol. You know.. Geeks talking 'puters. ;)

[Letter13]

'puters.

I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE!