LukeAura Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 They are working towards a mini EVE online, so that explains the economy and the plat and the whole "Cashier" thing. Sure, they have other ways of making money but regardless this is a mechanic they're setting up here. It's for metagame. They don't deny issues. They work past them. Sure, they arent the most on-target Developers but who is? Even Valve bumble around issues for a while before actually fixing them. It's just human nature. But when de finally find that screwdriver they'll work wonders with it. No it doesn't. Any economy they could have set up should have been entirely self contained or at least mostly self contained. Platinum shouldn't be the ever present lord over how you obtain things. They certainly do deny issues, and they pander to us the ones they acknowledge because they do nothing about them and implement against their word. And they don't work past them, they band-aid. Big difference. When they find that screwdriver I'll be waiting, and maybe if they flipped their blueprint rightside up it would help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract_The_Pariah Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 No it doesn't. Any economy they could have set up should have been entirely self contained or at least mostly self contained. Platinum shouldn't be the ever present lord over how you obtain things. They certainly do deny issues, and they pander to us the ones they acknowledge because they do nothing about them and implement against their word. And they don't work past them, they band-aid. Big difference. When they find that screwdriver I'll be waiting, and maybe if they flipped their blueprint rightside up it would help too. When you're focused and in the trenches of development you're unable to see the whole picture. I'm happy that they're at least trying to bandaid fix instead of ignoring it. Eventually they'll do it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamzack Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I agree completely with your criticisms of the market. Pay-2-Win is bad, but DE wasn't in danger of becoming Pay-2-Win. It is becoming closer and closer to approaching Pay-2-Lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidaku Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 To be honest I have been skimming through each iteration of these threads in my spare time, and while I disagree with a fair number of points (In that a lot of the issues people are having with RNG / Grind / Farm / Whatever don't bother me in the slightest, and that I personally can't see a token system helping in the slightest), and I kinda realized something while reading it. That isn't to say that you were an example of what I'm about to say, but your thread(s) kinda made things click for me. I still can't quite put it into words, so I apologize if I start waxing poetic, or if I lose coherence, or something like that. If this game dies, it won't be because DE messed up, or really even did or didn't do anything in particular. It'll be because the community as a whole will suck the will to play out of each other. There is so much negativity and cynicism here in the forums that it is simply cancerous. It is positively venomous to any kind of feedback, and completely ruins any dialogue between the playerbase and the Dev team. But worst of all, it feeds off of itself. It has made people try to find faults in any of DE's actions, it has made people paranoid and convinced DE is out to get them, and above all has made people too frustrated and angry to see any positive side of anything. It creates this environment where people are made either frustrated, sad, angry, or any combination of the three, either directed towards the other members of the community who might have the audacity to disagree, or towards DE themselves, for whatever reason they can find. People are disheartened, then turned angry. They are shocked, then turned sad. But that's when things get ugly. Each person becomes this vessel of cynicism and anger that just infects all others around it, so to speak. When everyone is angry and frustrated, nobody can have fun with anything anymore. The community turns into one giant "negative nancy." Then you start seeing things, things like the conspiracy theories, the accusations, the trying to find anything and everything wrong in something, anything that makes them feel vindicated, or whatever happens to fit whatever crazy view of DE they may have constructed. DE does listen, and DE does try very hard, and people lose sight of that. Yes, it may be that many have lost faith, but how many more do you think have just succumbed to this air of hopelessness, anger, and frustration? How many will leave after being disheartened by seeing others get frustrated? The game will die because of a cancer within the community. Bah... I'm tired of it really. I lived a good 4 or 5 years of my life thinking that I would never really meet anyone as downtrodden and cynical as I was, and then I started becoming active on these forums, and suddenly seemed like I was the only one who still had an ounce of faith left. It is an issue, and it's quite frankly disgusting to me. The level of unwarranted spite and anger is just appalling. The mere fact that DE even has to enforce a no-bashing-devs rule is just sickening. Is that the level of maturity we conduct ourselves in? I mean really? I think this next Developer livestream needs to be longer, to spend time and answer all the questions they can. Two, perhaps even three hours even. Or at least long enough to respond to the communities "issues." As much as I hate to see DE prostrate themselves to people who can't be satisfied, it needs to happen. This disgusting attitude that the collective Forums is now filled with just has to be lifted, or nothing can move forward at any kind of efficiency. I apologize for using your thread as a place to dump my thoughts, but I've been sitting on them for a while. Especially those "nope" post to suggestions that could be useful if reworked -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss4chris Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 players come and go. you wont be the first and you wont be the last. its like you dont want a game of some type of effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 "Don't you dare call DE a joke" Mate, I don't care if its a game developer, a person on the street, or a @(*()$ circus animal. If someone is going to break promises on numerous occasions, I'll call them a joke, no matter what their background story is. The fact that they worked for 10 years to create Warframe (and I seriously doubt its current iteration was their original vision) is irrelevant. DE achieved a lot with the time, and money they have. Unlike Food fight which cost $63,000,000, and took about 10 years to finish, and still came out as.... THE WORST MOVIE EVER... I applaud them for what they can get done ever since seeing that abomination that came out in 2013... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Whats wrong with that? Hm? It's an economy. It's a trading economy right out of an MMO. In my opinion this is for the better. It adds another breathing layer to the game. THEY HAVE TO MAKE MONEY SOMEHOW. What's wrong with being indirectly P2W? Hmm... Well... Basically, that means that DE's RNG setup and couple with a RL currency economy is now crossing the line from encouraging people to want to spend money on them to having to spend money on them. I'll let you figure the rest of that concept out... I've been an MMO player for 15 years... There is no successful MMO with an economy like this one that proved to work, that I have seen. Not one. If you can think of one.. Please do name it. I'd suggest you avoid attempting to name EVE or Diablo 3. I freely admit to having "White Knighted" DE regarding RNG and their handling of it over the past few months... But even I can admit that RNG has moved into the realm of the, "needle in a field of haystacks" variety. I still don't agree with everything that Nugget_ has said, but am big enough to admit when someone is right where I was wrong. Nugget_ called it, he was correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quovander Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 This thread is proving to be inescapable. Just when it was slowly getting shoved underneath the less interesting threads, it comes right back up. I hate to admit it but Nugget was right. It's perpetual RNG. Spend money or grind 'till your eyes bleed. It's evident with U13. Jeez... Waframe has become an indirect P2W MMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazen2013 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Warframe was always P2W. And as long as people keep spending money on it, nothing will change. There are far more better f2p marketing strategies out there with reasonable price models (lol, tf2) which make a lot of more money. Hell even developers who published their games on steam said they sold the game for 15$. After some months they put it on sale for 90% and sold it for about 2$. They made twice the money in this month in total than all the time before together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNaps Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I don't know if I can play this ever again now after reading this. I think I'm just gonna stay in the forums for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katakuna Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I don't know if I can play this ever again now after reading this. I think I'm just gonna stay in the forums for now. We call that "enlightenment." It's okay though, the forums are the true end-game, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourZeroNine Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) Wow, even I'm not this cynical about things, and I'm the guy who's basically given up on all of reality... The first thing you should know is that DE is first and foremost a business, and like all businesses, it will always, always come down to getting more money. It's what they need to survive, after all. Edited April 22, 2014 by FourZeroNine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeAura Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Wow, even I'm not this cynical about things, and I'm the guy who's basically given up on all of reality... One of us. One of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourZeroNine Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 One of us. One of us. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychedelicSnake Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 One of us. One of us. I'm already a cynic. But I like to take my cynicism and convert it to sarcasm, snark, and satire. I then use this as ammo to piss everyone else off for my amusement. I'm eco-friendly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utarious Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I'm already a cynic. But I like to take my cynicism and convert it to sarcasm, snark, and satire. I then use this as ammo to &!$$ everyone else off for my amusement. I'm eco-friendly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminati07 Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 players come and go. you wont be the first and you wont be the last. its like you dont want a game of some type of effort. Right, I don't like Warframe simply because it "requires effort". Nailed it. /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss4chris Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 What's wrong with being indirectly P2W? Hmm... Well... Basically, that means that DE's RNG setup and couple with a RL currency economy is now crossing the line from encouraging people to want to spend money on them to having to spend money on them. I'll let you figure the rest of that concept out... I've been an MMO player for 15 years... There is no successful MMO with an economy like this one that proved to work, that I have seen. Not one. If you can think of one.. Please do name it. I'd suggest you avoid attempting to name EVE or Diablo 3. I freely admit to having "White Knighted" DE regarding RNG and their handling of it over the past few months... But even I can admit that RNG has moved into the realm of the, "needle in a field of haystacks" variety. I still don't agree with everything that Nugget_ has said, but am big enough to admit when someone is right where I was wrong. Nugget_ called it, he was correct. WOW and i doubt you been an mMO play for years lol. RNG is everywhere you go. wanting to get rid of it means you havent played enough to know how the MMO world even works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnat6 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 WOW and i doubt you been an mMO play for years lol. RNG is everywhere you go. wanting to get rid of it means you havent played enough to know how the MMO world even works. RNG is not the problem its how its implemented and the drop tables its pulling from that's the problem or are you trying to say that you see nothing wrong with this picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaddun Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I respect your stance. But, let us all be honest, DE could never become as bad as Piranah Games Ind with Mechwarrior Online. At this point they are a case study on how not to make a FTP game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss4chris Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 RNG is not the problem its how its implemented and the drop tables its pulling from that's the problem or are you trying to say that you see nothing wrong with this picture i've gotten my hydroid long ago. lol. through the who beacons. its just a bad luck/ rng factor. sometimes you win. sometimes. you're facked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lqn8r Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) So since your done with the game, are you not going to do a opinion on badlands/solar rails? Even though you might be done with this game, it would be nice to see what your opinion would be on them. I too have been foolish enough to stick around for this long, but it is only because this game has lots of potential that I even bother to stay. If U14 is as bad as U13 in terms of grinding or lack luster boss fights, I'll probably leave as well. Edited April 22, 2014 by Lqn8r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazer Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Play if you still enjoy the game, if not move on. Don't continue to "force" yourself to play in the "hope" that things get better, it won't. Nothing has changed, nor will it, no matter who or how many people try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arche Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Play if you still enjoy the game, if not move on. Don't continue to "force" yourself to play in the "hope" that things get better, it won't. Nothing has changed, nor will it, no matter who or how many people try. The meaning of Insanity is doing something over and over again the same way and expect a different result. This can be applied to DE, they are constantly creating grind walls and making false promises and expect a different reaction from us. This can also be applied to us, we are constantly posting things on the forums/telling DE(or whatever other method) and expect DE to change how they implement things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 WOW and i doubt you been an mMO play for years lol. RNG is everywhere you go. wanting to get rid of it means you havent played enough to know how the MMO world even works. Don't let the fact that I've probably been playing MMO's since before you could consistently go potty without diapers distress you. I agree, RNG is a factor in every game. The key word here is "factor". RNG is really the only constant factor in this game due to a general lack of other factors in the form of content. No one has said "remove RNG". That's either your opinion of the statements or poor comprehension on your part. What has been said is "reduce RNG" or "create methods to allow progression" In other words, change the farm into a grind. The two actually aren't the same... One has the hope of success while the other has definitive incremental progression. The fact that you missed that clear assertion in Nugget_'s posts pretty much disqualifies your comments. To quote Nugget_," There is no TL;DR" You need to go back and actually read them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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