Fix Defense Missions

[Jax_Cavalera]

So I made a post a while back which happened to coincide with another post of similar theme. Unfortunately DE must not have read it and/or the community didn't put enough attention onto it for them to notice so I'll try again but with a slight tweak to it based on an idea another member of the community left as a final thought in 

IDEA / PROPOSED CHANGE

Currently a wave in defence is based on X number of enemies you have to kill for it to complete. Replace this mechanic with a 60 Second timer per "wave". Enemies at that wave's level of difficulty endlessly spawn and charge the objective, which the player defends.

This should stop players falling to sleep, make the gamemode far more exciting and likely provide a little more incentive to play it. If XP boosting is a concern, just half the XP gained per enemy call them shadow mobs or something, I really couldn't care less how or what DE have to do to make it happen, I just cannot deal with slow peace meal mob clusters that stroll around the map getting lost during defense slowly spawning in patches... where there is a single clear target they should be going after with urgency!

[5p33dy_01]

1 hour ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

So I made a post a while back which happened to coincide with another post of similar theme. Unfortunately DE must not have read it and/or the community didn't put enough attention onto it for them to notice so I'll try again but with a slight tweak to it based on an idea another member of the community left as a final thought in 

IDEA / PROPOSED CHANGE

Currently a wave in defence is based on X number of enemies you have to kill for it to complete. Replace this mechanic with a 60 Second timer per "wave". Enemies at that wave's level of difficulty endlessly spawn and charge the objective, which the player defends.

This should stop players falling to sleep, make the gamemode far more exciting and likely provide a little more incentive to play it. If XP boosting is a concern, just half the XP gained per enemy call them shadow mobs or something, I really couldn't care less how or what DE have to do to make it happen, I just cannot deal with slow peace meal mob clusters that stroll around the map getting lost during defense slowly spawning in patches... where there is a single clear target they should be going after with urgency!

this has been requested over and over again, i think i even made a post about it, its not that DE didnt read it, they dont seem to care.

the idea of the game is to only spend about 20min in a mission, which is roughly the first C rotation, then you must take a break. 

[Scar.brother.help.me]

2 hours ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

IDEA / PROPOSED CHANGE

Currently a wave in defence is based on X number of enemies you have to kill for it to complete. Replace this mechanic with a 60 Second timer per "wave". Enemies at that wave's level of difficulty endlessly spawn and charge the objective, which the player defends.

This should stop players falling to sleep, make the gamemode far more exciting and likely provide a little more incentive to play it. If XP boosting is a concern, just half the XP gained per enemy call them shadow mobs or something, I really couldn't care less how or what DE have to do to make it happen, I just cannot deal with slow peace meal mob clusters that stroll around the map getting lost during defense slowly spawning in patches... where there is a single clear target they should be going after with urgency!

I like this idea very much! (I do fall asleep very often during Defence Missions, especially when mobs get stuck and the wave slows down, then I wake up wave 11 or 16 alone and start to spawn Specters)

 

 

1 hour ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

the idea of the game is to only spend about 20min in a mission, which is roughly the first C rotation, then you must take a break

Then why not make it a MISSION COMPLETE after the wave/minute 20 and all back to orbiters?

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Scar.brother.help.me

[5p33dy_01]

6 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Then why not make it a MISSION COMPLETE after the wave/minute 20 and all back to orbiters?

because some people want to stay longer.

i know its boring, everyone knows its boring, but some people prefer it over survival or other endless missions, because everyone pretty much sticks together, you dont have to run 700+ meters for drops.

in fact DE should make those small tile sets the same for survival, then you will see even less people playing defence, thats probably why they havent.
its not hard, its basically what ESO is.

not only is it the most boring mode, its the easiest to cause problems for others.
around when i first started playing warframe, i was in the defence mission IO, and i wasnt really able to handle high content on my own, i was around MR5, we got to wave 30 or so and literally on the last second my squad left me, i was on stay and they didnt pick to stay or go until the last second, then they all left, and i inevitably failed. i lost a huge amount of resources that i REALLY needed at the time.

i bought Hildryn with the aegis and barrier R3 arcanes, pulled out the Tonkor and made a volt spectre with it, then solo'ed to wave 45 when i got utterly bored, now i've never had a problem since.
from that day i have made sure i am strong enough to take on pretty much everything in the game, so i use broken builds because i never want to go through that again.

from a bit of research, i found that i wasnt the only one to have experienced people leaving on the last second, so many people do it to others.

anyway, not only do i find the mode so boring, i have a personal bad experience with the poor design.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

Small area survival would be sweet
Even better if there was a tower defence like endless mission

[Jax_Cavalera]

On 2020-05-05 at 4:32 AM, 5p33dy_01 said:

i know its boring, everyone knows its boring, but some people prefer it over survival or other endless missions, because everyone pretty much sticks together, you dont have to run 700+ meters for drops.

in fact DE should make those small tile sets the same for survival, then you will see even less people playing defence, thats probably why they havent.
its not hard, its basically what ESO is.

from a bit of research, i found that i wasnt the only one to have experienced people leaving on the last second, so many people do it to others.

That sucks regarding your bad experience with the game mode, I've had it happen to me and have accidently been in a squad where it happened to someone else. It doesn't feel good either way, probably worse when it happens to someone else in the squad coz then you know they're left thinking you did it on purpose and can cause unnecessary friction within a chill squad.

While still off-topic, the thing we used to love about survival is that you could have a 4 squad on comms bunker down somewhere and become the defence objective. This aligns with what I imagine when I picture someone surviving, I don't picture people running around out of cover, going up to enemies who have deadly weapons and stabbing them with sticks or whatever melee weapon people run these days. Survival should have remained a tactical game mode instead of becoming a run and gun.

Anyway naturally they trashed survival when they changed it to suffocation, a game mode where you are more likely to suffocate from lack of life support long before some enemy gets the drop on you.

So back on topic, defence missions were our next best option when they started messing with the survival bunker play-style. Everyone figured, ok so i gotta defend this objective out in the open, at least we can find some kind of tactical positions and hold it down with a nice stream of enemies. DE didn't enjoy watching players churn through waves so fast.. they started to break down the flow of enemies so the entire wave won't spawn in one go.

I think this is roughly when the game mode changed from Defence to Slumber.. leaving us with 2 less than ideal options for endless gameplay.

Changing spawns so it's a timer you defend an objective for vs X number of enemies will prevent players rushing through each wave, but will keep the tension up as you have this constant hoard charging at the objective and what you do't kill doesn't matter it despawns at the end of the wave.

 

[5p33dy_01]

21 minutes ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

 DE didn't enjoy watching players churn through waves so fast.. they started to break down the flow of enemies so the entire wave won't spawn in one go.

i didnt know it was like this before... the fact they took it away, just means it probably wont be coming back.

but seriously, for someone to think its better to add delays on the spawning, is just dumb, when its an action game.

a BETTER solution would be changing the wave's, e.g 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 etc, you are doubling the waves and still keeping the action, which is the enjoyment.
the mode is ONLY boring because of the spawn system.
hell, they could tripple it or quadruple it, as long as there is action, people will enjoy it.

i much rather sit for 60min in survival than 20min in defence, thats how much of a difference it makes.

[Jax_Cavalera]

On 2020-05-08 at 8:31 AM, 5p33dy_01 said:

i didnt know it was like this before... the fact they took it away, just means it probably wont be coming back.

but seriously, for someone to think its better to add delays on the spawning, is just dumb, when its an action game.

a BETTER solution would be changing the wave's, e.g 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 etc, you are doubling the waves and still keeping the action, which is the enjoyment.
the mode is ONLY boring because of the spawn system.
hell, they could tripple it or quadruple it, as long as there is action, people will enjoy it.

i much rather sit for 60min in survival than 20min in defence, thats how much of a difference it makes.

The main difference with the proposed change and what they had was that in the original the mobs streamed in so it was easier to rush a wave through vs this option that works on a timer so it's keeping the objective alive till the timer runs out each wave.

Then all they need to do is remove the objective and we have legitimate survival haha a tenno can dream

[5p33dy_01]

1 hour ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

The main difference with the proposed change and what they had was that in the original the mobs streamed in so it was easier to rush a wave through vs this option that works on a timer so it's keeping the objective alive till the timer runs out each wave.

Then all they need to do is remove the objective and we have legitimate survival haha a tenno can dream

defence and survival are pretty much the same thing.

defence you're defending a particular object (person in arbitrations)
survival you're defending yourself

but to say that its better to reduce action (enjoyment) as a way to increase the time it takes for each wave, is just a stupid way to think.
i broke it down in the topic i made a while ago, its got mini waves inbetween each full wave (i.e, all the enemies dont spawn at once), this is what makes it even more boring.

yes you can have a timer, but then it would be the same as survival (as you stated)

in a perfect world, what needs to be done is a steady stream of enemies, you kill 1 and another spawns

the same thing should be done with survival, including reducing the size of the map.
the amount of times people skewer the spawns and it literally messes up the entire mission is just ridiculous.
i just played an arbitration survival and my team literally ran off to each corner of the map, the spawns were so spread out that they couldnt be killed fast enough to sustain life support.
watching on the mini map and hunting down enemies, i found soo many just chilling, not doing anything.

at the moment, both modes are broken and have been for a really long time.
survival, the enemies dont teleport like they should
defence, the enemies get stuck and you have to go find them
even disruption, the demolysts get stuck in the environment and you have to go find them.

on top of the problems with enemies not teleporting, the pathing sucks too.

bottom line, there is some serious work that needs to be done with those modes, but they probably wont get around to resolving those issues, since people still play and they still have money coming in.... its also ok, because fashion frame is a thing, and a broken game doesnt matter, as long as you look good.

if even a fraction of detail they put in fashion was put in the game modes, we wouldnt have these problems.

Edited May 9, 2020 by 5p33dy_01

[anarchy753]

On 2020-05-04 at 7:27 PM, 5p33dy_01 said:

this has been requested over and over again, i think i even made a post about it, its not that DE didnt read it, they dont seem to care.

the idea of the game is to only spend about 20min in a mission, which is roughly the first C rotation, then you must take a break. 

Meanwhile to get some units to spawn as eximus just to scan them for the codex requires going past 30 mins minimum.