Question About Statements By De

[Mak_Gohae]

Did you watch livestreams yes?

 

 

Except they have. This knowledge has been in the community or a long time now. They said that during one of the oldest livestreams and haven't said anything since to imply that has changed.

 

 

I really cant understand how people can take an explanation why the DE chooses to have certain frames be certain sex as an in-game explanation how Warframes function.

 

The question and answer were a CLEAR outside of the game design choice thing that you folks are, i really dont know how, taking it as an in-game lore thing.

 

 

 

No matter how you try to spin it the number of active players is still not going to be anywhere near 4 million.

 

I agree, no one has ever believed numbers used because we dont know what they consider an account.

It could be someone who played a least 10 missions......

The point is that there are several regions you can choose from to get into games and i havent switched from my region to other to try to get into game in a loooooooooooooooooong time.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[fatpig84]

Active players at anytime is more important.

[Blatantfool]

I really cant understand how people can take an explanation why the DE chooses to have certain frames be certain sex as an in-game explanation how Warframes function.

The question and answer were a CLEAR outside of the game design choice thing that you folks are, i really dont know how, taking it as an in-game lore thing.

"They are all different people." works for both Mak. Maybe it isn't what you'd like for them to do with the lore but it is definitely what they've shared about it in the past and they've done nothing to let anyone know that has changed.

In that sense I definitely feel your pain. My headcanon at this point is going to leave me heartbroken when DE finally tries to flesh out the story.

I agree, no one has ever believed numbers used because we dont know what they consider an account.

It could be someone who played a least 10 missions......

The point is that there are several regions you can choose from to get into games and i havent switched from my region to other to try to get into game in a loooooooooooooooooong time.

Yeah. That is why above I said that I didn't really feel like this thread is trying to make any outstanding statements or crazy claims. It is just talking a bit about some silliness from that email. It is kinda funny to see them playing the marketing spin game in emails to people who know it isn't really the case.

And honestly it isn't like anyone expects DE to do the crazy thing and stop with the marketing talk like that. It wouldn't do them any favors and it wouldn't improve anything for the players regardless.

But it makes for a bit of interesting talk.

[Althix]

 DE to do the crazy thing and stop with the marketing talk

of course not. it's like when Megan said that they will show some funny bugs on wf prime time. yeah right. one shot of negative-pr right in the heart please.

 

advertising->sales. there is also a chance that former players will return to buy a founder package.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Althix

[theGreatZamboni]

of course not. it's like when Megan said that they will show some funny bugs on wf prime time. yeah right. one shot of negative-pr right in the heart please.

 

advertising->sales. there is also a chance that former players will return to buy a founder package.

 

Sales? What sales? This is a free-to-play game. What nets them money is the quality of the product, not how many ads there are. As for returning to buy the founders package; why? The Founders Program is gone come the 1st of November. So what do they stand to gain through advertising? What happens has been proven through their own stupid actions, which is to say, it hurts the game.

 

They advertised U10 on Steam, front page. What they showed in the imagery was S#&$ you could only get after 20+ hours of playing the game, correctly. If you didn't have time for that, you dropped money on the game and still couldn't get access to things like the Djinn, Boar or Mag prime. So what the hell was the point of those being the focus of the ad? Do you not see how counter productive that is?

 

"We need new players"

"People say our game isn't fun and too grindy"

"Then let's really show them how grindy it is!"

"...what?"

 

If you chose to purchase Nekros, you are effectively ruining the game for yourself. Because the only goal of the game is to "collect them all" and even that is locked behind a pay wall. By not having to grind for Nekros, you are one step closer to not having to play the game. So instead of saving the money and effort, that could be used to fix the damn game, they keep blowing their load on ads. Look at this:

 

 

Because of the nature of the content being advertised, the status of the game and the continued ignorance on display, it becomes one giant slap in the face. Oh man, looks the the Refer-A-Friend program really worked!/sarcasm. I could not tell someone I consider to be my friend, to play this game. The Refer-A-Friend model is something that works for established games, for good games. This is not a good game, it barely is a game. So the fact that DE are willing to go into a full marketing blitz, with fudged numbers is again, an insult.

 

Doing a massive marketing campaign for a game that is in beta and more specifically this game, is like inviting people over to your house for a big party you are planning to throw, a week in advance. They will have nothing to do and sit around awkwardly until they decide to leave and proceed to never talk to you again.

Edited October 17, 2013 by theGreatZamboni
Edited out insult

[alocrius]

Actually most of us founders have never gotten a word in. The only voice thats regularly heard is the voice of the pack, the majority. While we were trying to give detailed bugs and glitches..the majority were all talking about scarves and how they would like to play Rhino and Ash in a girl skin.

Not trying to make any point really...just another factor in the low retention level. Also why you absolutely shouod not become a founder for the chance to change the face of the game, or think you will get a direct line to the Devs via Council chat.

To be fair the devs were talking about giving gender choices for frames too, in early livestreams.  And don't act like you wouldn't be down with that.  Its still a good idea especially if they give you a tweaked ability set with the opposing gender.  Two different playstyles for your fav frame.  Scarves is another issue entirely.

[bobafetthotmail]

To be fair the devs were talking about giving gender choices for frames too, in early livestreams.  And don't act like you wouldn't be down with that.  Its still a good idea especially if they give you a tweaked ability set with the opposing gender.  Two different playstyles for your fav frame.  Scarves is another issue entirely.

he was refering to the whiners that wanted female skins (not a new frame with different abilities, that would be actually cool) because "I cannot play male/female frames because I'm a chick/dude" (respectively), an obvious case of identity issues, plus I'm going to call Internet rule There are No Girls on the Internet as I really don't know females that have such identity problems (AND play shooters, anyway).

Edited October 15, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[Mak_Gohae]

"They are all different people." works for both Mak. Maybe it isn't what you'd like for them to do with the lore but it is definitely what they've shared about it in the past and they've done nothing to let anyone know that has changed.

In that sense I definitely feel your pain. My headcanon at this point is going to leave me heartbroken when DE finally tries to flesh out the story.

 

 

You are the only folks bringing up lore here.

Like i said, the question and answer had to do with the internal decision on having certain frames be certain sex.

This was during the time there was a big uproar about frames having opposite sex versions

You folks somehow turned that into a lore thing when nothing surrounding that whole part of the conversation had anything to do with it.

[GTG3000]

Why do I feel like there's going to be another awesome mod resigning soon?

[ThisOneIsAnnoyed]

he was refering to the whiners that wanted female skins (not a new frame with different abilities, that would be actually cool) because "I cannot play male/female frames because I'm a chick/dude" (respectively), an obvious case of identity issues, plus I'm going to call Internet rule There are No Girls on the Internet as I really don't know females that have such identity problems (AND play shooters, anyway).

In any event, the devs were quite clear that each warframe was an individual with defining characteristics not related to the frame itself. Hence, every warframe is a unique Tenno, which still leaves us at the same point we started at for this thread.

[way2faded]

Well I dunno bout you guys, but after seeing that graph Im selling all my Warframe stock.

[bobafetthotmail]

You are the only folks bringing up lore here.

Like i said, the question and answer had to do with the internal decision on having certain frames be certain sex.

This was during the time there was a big uproar about frames having opposite sex versions

You folks somehow turned that into a lore thing when nothing surrounding that whole part of the conversation had anything to do with it.

Feel free to live in your own corner with your own reality, but this doesn't make you less wrong.

[Silvershadow66]

This is the number of people "playing" Warframe. This includes logging in to get your daily reward, logging in to set something to build in your foundry, and logging in to idle in chat. This certainly reflects the activity level of my clan, rather than the game gaining a million players.

 

No,that is not the number of people playing warframe, that is the number of people playing at a particular time of the day. The number of active players is much, much higher than that number. 

 

473,204 members is, again, a far cry from "3/4 million", and much more in line with the numbers I arrived at above. Additionally, the "6,595 most online" number really doesn't support a userbase in the millions. Since that number is based on the most concurrent users ever, in the history of the site, that includes big weekend events. In terms of Tenno, that would be .165% activity, and that number is just absurd on its face. Compared to 473,204, however, it would be 1.393%, and while that is still low, is somewhat more realistic.

 

If you've stuck with me so far, then thank you, and this brings me to the question I mentioned in the topic. DE: which numbers are correct? Is it 4 million players total, or 1/19th of that?

 

Sorry to rain on your parade but in every single online game only a tiny fraction of people ever use the game forums. 10% is on the high end and that would give Warframe over 4 million accounts.

 

4 million Tenno is 4 million player accounts, that is what all games report on when they give figures like this. The number of player accounts in existence. The number of active accounts is always lower but games don't tend to report that, especially F2P games where accounts don't expire as people can stop and start playing when they feel like it.

[Silvershadow66]

Awesome, where's the source that says that? Or were you just making things up as you go, then padding them with assumptions, which is the problem that lead us here to begin with?

 

Well you started with an assumption. Then tried to back it up with misrepresented data.

[Silvershadow66]

Can you educate me as to why that is a fact?

 

Because almost all people don't play all day (they may not play every day of the week) and perhaps most importantly the players are spread over two dozen timezones.

[LunchBoxKilla]

I'm still waiting on the E-mail and Rank here on he forums....

[Althix]

Sales? What sales? This is a free-to-play game.

so? even if somebody pays for 75 plat it is already a sale. your steam statistic have nothing to do with actual numbers of payments made and what size these payments are. i don't know numbers and neither do you.

 

another thing that i doubt game actually have that much accounts as they claim to have. also in f2p game even if 10% of player base are paying, it is supposed to be enough to keep game afloat. on DC forum i see new names everyday. which is also means sales.

 

New people come they pay and so on and so on.

 

And it have nothing to do with the fact that game is empty and have nothing to offer content wise but grind wall. You will not see it on emails, you do not see that on promo actions. It's bad for business © HHH.

 

Look at grand masters, unless they boost dojo, they have a plat for a very very very long time. They are basically lost their value as money income for DE. They are not buying plat because they have no need in that.

 

Active player base =/= sales of plat. it is very obvious really.

 

Take a look at Skyrim TES. Each faction in this game have its own campaign. Each campaign will consume 2-3 hours of game time. In Morrowind each campaign for a faction could take 2-3 days to complete. Difference between time is very easy to explain. Developer would rather make not very complicated and short game to complete after which he will start to make DLC in order to get more money from player base. This is marketing. It is profitable.

 

Warframe is no different really. They way how they handle their marketing maybe be strange from your perspective, but it could be real good from theirs, because they have information that we don't.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Althix

[bobafetthotmail]

4 million Tenno is 4 million player accounts, that is what all games report on when they give figures like this.

 Speculation. Not unbelievable, but still speculation.

 

Well you started with an assumption. Then tried to back it up with misrepresented data.

It was a theory, a speculation started with the question "From where did DE pull 4 millions out of?" (my cynical answer: thin air).

 

He pulled up all reliable data he could find. Which is not much admittedly, and not anywhere near enough to prove his point is right.

[ThisOneIsAnnoyed]

 Speculation. Not unbelievable, but still speculation.

 

It was a theory, a speculation started with the question "From where did DE pull 4 millions out of?" (my cynical answer: thin air).

 

He pulled up all reliable data he could find. Which is not much admittedly, and not anywhere near enough to prove his point is right.

Indeed, which I acknowledged. There's not enough info to definitively say one way or the other is correct without new information coming to light or new statements being made, which is why I asked DE to clarify that at the end of my OP - because we don't have enough information to draw a conclusion.

 

No,that is not the number of people playing warframe, that is the number of people playing at a particular time of the day. The number of active players is much, much higher than that number. 

 

 

Sorry to rain on your parade but in every single online game only a tiny fraction of people ever use the game forums. 10% is on the high end and that would give Warframe over 4 million accounts.

 

4 million Tenno is 4 million player accounts, that is what all games report on when they give figures like this. The number of player accounts in existence. The number of active accounts is always lower but games don't tend to report that, especially F2P games where accounts don't expire as people can stop and start playing when they feel like it.

Try using the multi-quote button so you don't make 3 posts in a row.

 

Do you have a source for the number of active players?

 

What parade? I'm asking questions, not pushing a mantra. I'm very curious as to which set of numbers is more correct, as there are issues with both based on observed effects and statements previously made. Do you have a source for the 10% figure? Also, you're ignoring that forum accounts are made when game accounts are made as well; the two go hand-in-hand, and your forum profile only records the first time you access the forums - not when the account is made.

 

If 4 million Tenno is 4 million players, why do we keep hearing the terms users, fans, accounts, profiles, gamers, Tenno, and players from different sites? Different words mean different things, and you are not an authority to define what they mean in this context. Do you have a source that indicates the account-reporting behavior of other companies?

 

I hate to rain on your parade, but you are not in a position to speak for DE, and ultimately it will be their words, either from previous statements or new ones, that will solve this curiosity.

Edited October 15, 2013 by ThisOneIsAnnoyed

[bobafetthotmail]

Step 1 :

Take some of the last Introduction post which doesnt state "returning to the game"

 

Step 2 :

Read the adress of the poster : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/user/442600-ssfsx17/

 

Important adress part : 442600.

Read the creation date. 22/09/2013.

 

Remember that the forum account is created at the same time than the account.

 

There you are.

 

Step 3 :

Don't care about it, since it doesn't bring anything up than marketing stuff doing marketing.

 

Step 4 :

Remember that the DE that doesn't listen to us have improved dramastically a huge number of things :

- More tiles

- UI. Remember when you have to swap all your mods from frame to frame ? It was 2 months ago.

- Transmute system (which is not in a good state but still exists)

- Mods with disadvantages. (more choices to make, except for the recoil part)

etc... (warframes are now more grindeable than ever, ressources too)

 

Step 5 :

Remember than the guy working on scarves is not the same guy working on NAT issues.

 

Step 6 :

Breathe, and then, write constructive critiscism.

Wrong thread? O.o

 

We are discussing where DE pulled their numbers from. All steps other than 3 are completely tangential to the thread.

Edited October 15, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[Froh]

No it was not. You can see that we're kinda far from 4 millions. But I deleted it anyway.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Froh

[ThisOneIsAnnoyed]

Wrong thread? O.o

 

We are discussing where DE pulled their numbers from. All steps other than 3 are completely tangential to the thread.

Actually, steps 1 and 2 are relevant to the thread.

[Silvershadow66]

Do you have a source for the number of active players?

 

A source for the actual number...of course not, and I did not claim I had one. However that number will be much higher than your graph which solely shows the concurrent user numbers via Steam, especially for a game that does not have regional servers so that every hour is pretty much in the peak times of some part of the world.

 

Steam claim that they have 50 million accounts but I only see 5 million online right now, does that mean that steam are lying or does it mean that not all Steam users are logged in 24/7?

 

If you want an estimate then taking the example of World of Tanks from about a year ago, a F2P game with a grind and a similar game approach of short individual games (so the play patterns are likely to be comparable) when the European Server had a peak of 120k online it had 2 million active accounts (so 16 times the peak number). That active account number was not from the developers but from Users who pulled them from the player profiles that are available to the public. As to registered accounts it was about 7 million back then.

 

Warframe covers far more timezones on its one "server" so I would expect that the number of active players is probably 20-25 times the peak daily number. Steam users would account for about 250-300k. IAH games have been pushing Warframe recently and they operate in a huge market.

 

As to the forum number here, as was pointed out that number only lists accounts that have logged in to the forums at least once. Someone did an analysis for the World of Tanks forums way back when the game was about 6 months old, only 3% of player accounts had made a post on the forums.

 

Of course according to the doomsayers who claim that thousand player clans now only have a hundred people online and the game is dying the number of accounts should be exponentially higher than the number of active players around today.

[ArsVampyre]

Everyone says that in their pitch. I can't even remember a time that it wasn't part of the pitch.

Regardless - what that is directly referencing the the Design Council. Once in a while they vote on something and it happens. That does technically qualify as 'shaping the future'. But as far as feedback is concerned it is all equal here. What you say is just as good as what I say or what some Grandmasters says.

Hell, I actively ignore Founders status these days. It doesn't actually change anything when I'm playing my part of the forums.

In a perfect world that'd be really easy to set up and make happen.

DE doesn't.  If you want your question answered during a livestream, for example, you better be a master or better.

[Mak_Gohae]

Feel free to live in your own corner with your own reality, but this doesn't make you less wrong.

 

 

I think this conversation is suffering is from the alternate dimension problem some of the other conversations here suffer from where you folks live in some dimension where things happen one way then are communicating with a dimension where stuff happened another. 

 

So, yeah, in my reality the question and answer about why DE frame to be just one sex has nothing to with with a lore explanation because lore was never brought up. 

 

We need to find a solution to this problem you folks are having.