"What If?" A Thought on Primary Kitguns - "The Extra Piece"

[Librus_107]

So - I for one was super-hyped once they announced primary kitguns. I never could quite find a primary I liked for long, so the premise of a gun I could modulate into something ideal for me without really sacrificing anything like alt-fires or anything like that had me thrilled. And seeing how my Rattleguts sidearm shreds - I put my hopes on a pretty high-up shelf. Unfortunately, as the community has voiced here and there (particularly in test build videos I frantically tried to find after the update hit)... somehow these are worse than their sidearm siblings. And they don't offer a lot of traits, attributes & options a lot of people wanted - a lack of a sniper kitgun seems to be the biggest thing that's merited an outcry.

There's a lot of reasons people have said why this is the case: the other two parts are scaled for sidearm damage, riven disposition, lack of foresight from DE... but it's safe to say that there's now a question up in the air: how exactly will this be handled? Will they just be left as-is? Will they get a overall stat boost in due time? Until an announcement is made (or is never made), we don't really know - and it has me a little on edge - I'm eager to start building my primary murder baby sooner, not later! So, to help channel my worry into something productive, I had an idea. This isn't me saying "DE, implement this please!" - this is more me just sticking something to the wall and seeing what people think, and hopefully get a little attention to some creative solutions to this thing that the community is miffed over that (when compared to other things they're upset about) looks like a relatively easy(ish) fix.

So, title drop: Scopes. 

Basically: rather than just simply have the base of the gun up all the stats when primary - why not allow the primary kitgun grips to fit an extra part on them? They're far larger - and something that slaps on the top of the gun, like an ironsights, would be pretty cool (and not muddle the designs of those chambers all that much. Maybe even have two "connection points" - one atop the chamber/barrel, and the other atop the backside of the grip. These would basically provide a stat boost in a few departments, as well as change the way the chamber part works to make it behave more like a primary. So, here are my very rough draft ideas - I'm not a game designer, these are just what came to mind. (And why the numbers/stat changes are left ambiguous.)

Needlepin- "Sometimes you want to punch someone very, very, far away."

- Boosts base damage, crit damage, and stability.

- While reducing recoil, magazine size, and reload speed.

- Provides a massive zoom boost - and the only scope to feature an actual border when zoomed, like other in-game snipers.

- Y'know stats a sniper would only care about!

- The kitgun officially qualifies as a "sniper" - sniper mods and sortie requirements included.

Catchmoon: Provides a "choke" on the shotgun-like shockwave - while also letting it fly for a much, much longer distance before dissipating. 

Gaze: Railgun. Plain n' simple. Charge up to fire before unleashing a shot that packs one heavy punch - and also packs some heavy recoil. Like a build-an-opticor, but the radius is so precise, you do need to aim responsibly.

Rattleguts: Semi-auto distance rifle. Firing in bursts, and not super accurate - but still good for getting headshots at a distance a pistol shots won't reach.

Tombfinger: Your actual sniper-rifle-sniper. The explosion is much smaller - and only triggers when it hits an enemy. 

Gripcore- "Stay true to your roots - but still slap them senseless harder than they expect."

- Boosts pretty much everything all-round, Status, Critical, a little sprinkle of extra damage... this is your rifle scope.

- No reductions... this is supposed to be just the "viable primary kitgun quick n' easy fix".

- Zoom is moderate - but not super high. Juuuuuust enough to get a good aim on the head.

Catchmoon: No changes. 

Gaze: No changes here, either.

Rattleguts: Same here.

Tombfinger: You know what to expect - no changes. Surprise.

Gobblegut- "Bend your knees and hold onto your teeth - it's time to seriously enforce your personal space."

- Boosts damage, status, status chance, and crit rate... and recoil. Do Warframes even have teeth?

- No real serious reductions - I'm not shotgun-savvy enough to know what'd be cut down.

- Zoom is barley noticeable. The part is more of a giant battery stapled to the back than an actual scope.

- The kitgun is officially labeled as a "shotgun". Mods, sorties, you get the idea.

Catchmoon: Open wide - the radius/spread gets a nice, hearty boost on it's angle, but goes out only about 0.2 meters before vanishing. What you expect in a video-game shotgun - the pellets turn into confetti after a short distance. No idea how they do that.

Gaze: With the focus removed on the lasering part - it's basically a plasma thrower now. Like a radioactive surrogate cousin to the Ignis - though you won't sweep the floor with it. Think of it more like a tiny energy whip that spills out from the opening of your gun.

Rattleguts: Flak cannon. The shots go far - comparatively speaking, anyway - but the accuracy is about as reliable as a D.E. announcement date. (Sorry, I'm so sorry, I had to. D.E, you all are wonderful. Please get some rest.) Big ol' conical blast of metal bits.

Tombfinger: Fires the shot, but unleashes the explosion at a much, much closer range - just far enough to not send you flying yourself. 

Giddycharge- "For the specialist at heart, or someone who wants to bring a little extra."

- Behaves similarly to the "Gripcore", but stats are slightly less.

- In exchange, you get a sweet alt-fire mode! 

- Zoom varies here - it all depends on the chamber this time.

- "Special" mods (if applicable) can be slotted in here. 

Catchmoon: Alt-fire releases a shot that costs some extra ammo that has a different shape (not sure what). Maybe if it's not scary enough - the projectile travels back the way it came afterwards!

Gaze: Charge up the alt-fire to unleash a Battacor-like beam with high punch-through - but also empty your entire mag. Damage is tied to how much of your clip you decide to vomit at once. (As expected!)

Rattleguts: Mode switch - but not semi-auto to full-auto... instead toggles a "overclock" on your gun to make it go full-on BRRRRT. Of course, good luck aiming during the three seconds you'll be able to fire for. Really just for shredding through tanky bad guys up close as to not waste your precious time. (Maybe adds some heat damage?)

Tombfinger: Alt-fire: grenade(?) launcher! The shot will arc over a shorter distance and pop - maybe scattering secondary charges at a cost of some extra ammunition. 

 

So, there you have it. Let me once again remind you this isn't a suggestion (or a demand) or anything like that - I don't want to impose, and I also am absolutely not a game designer. It's entirely possible that whatever solution ends up happening - if a solution is pushed at all! - will be something entirely different. If anything, consider this a more... for fun sort of thing, something I just thought I'd write down to feel less disgruntled about not being able to build a daddy gun to my sidearm. Feel free to absolutely tear into this one and bring about your own thoughts, too - this is a forum after all. Otherwise, just let this venting of a thought sink to the bottom pages like a Norg turd - just thought I'd share. 

[0_The_F00l]

I too would like some more options on the primary kitguns,

I will settle for some additional arcanes and a second arcane slot for them.

[taiiat]

sure, this could be plausible.

however please space out your Lines better. everything having the same Line spacing makes it one giant double spaced Paragraph. i would strongly recommend Bullet Lists for your uh, well, bullets, and then Line Break between sections.

Edited June 14, 2020 by taiiat

[overlord504]

i would like to see at least ability to change wich fire mode you want because i was hyped for primary kitguns and when i built gaze primary i thought "lets name it flux rifle 2.0" and i was disapointed because it wasn't shooting like flux rifle at all it wasn't pure laser beam it was like glaxion vandal and with that mi kitgun can't be named flux rifle 2.0 anymore because of how it behaves. kitguns are great but now they aren't all that modular as they should be in my opinion

thats my opinion and also idea how to change existing kitgun building mechanics 

[PancakeLord333]

I feel like kitguns are just sterile in general. IMO they need to scrap the gild system and let us re-assemble kitguns any time we like on the orbiter (like the up-coming archwing rework?) and like the Railjack loadout system. 

Zaws make some sense as a guilded thing, as Hok is a master blade craftsman who, presumably, forges the parts into one piece ... but Zuud is just the firearms equivalent of IKEA, offering to bolt the parts together for 5k credits (i.e. for free) which feels unnecessary as we technically mod our own guns and stick fusion reactors into them all the time.

So I don't see a flavour/"lore" issue preventing this change, and it would add some (more) gameplay to kitguns, beyond 1) pick your muzzle type, 2) take the high crit magazine (high cap or fast reload) and 3) either the high fire rate or high damage stock - then ignore everything else.

Being able to swap kitgun components as we please would also then let them add in a lot more variety to the parts themselves, rather than magazines just adding X statistical property:

• one magazine might also make your projectiles bouncy (or beams reflect off surfaces) or
• another might turn your bullets/catchmoon shots into heat seeking projectiles. Or
• some stocks could offer special firing modes like 4shot burst,
  • or let you do unique reloads - like borderlands lets you throw a gun away as a grenade and teleports another one in etc. 

This would actually make kitguns fun to tinker with (and encourage more fortuna standing grind, as once you have everything its another meaningless location), and would mean kitguns would no longer be something that you look up the meta build for on youtube, max out, then forget about.

I'm all for more part categories. But, adding more parts, without also doing something like the above, will only mean that people look up one extra weirdly named item for their meta build, before promptly forgetting about it again.

Edited June 14, 2020 by PancakeLord333
formatting

[Librus_107]

13 hours ago, taiiat said:

however please space out your Lines better. everything having the same Line spacing makes it one giant double spaced Paragraph. i would strongly recommend Bullet Lists for your uh, well, bullets, and then Line Break between sections.

... Yeah, sorry. Haven't used the forums in ages - I basically just had tunnel vision on the bold/italics/underline section, had no idea the rest of those options were right there... I'll be sure to remember this if I ever do this again. Thanks.

11 hours ago, PancakeLord333 said:

I feel like kitguns are just sterile in general. IMO they need to scrap the gild system and let us re-assemble kitguns any time we like on the orbiter (like the up-coming archwing rework?) and like the Railjack loadout system. 

Zaws make some sense as a guilded thing, as Hok is a master blade craftsman who, presumably, forges the parts into one piece ... but Zuud is just the firearms equivalent of IKEA, offering to bolt the parts together for 5k credits (i.e. for free) which feels unnecessary as we technically mod our own guns and stick fusion reactors into them all the time.

So I don't see a flavour/"lore" issue preventing this change, and it would add some (more) gameplay to kitguns, beyond 1) pick your muzzle type, 2) take the high crit magazine (high cap or fast reload) and 3) either the high fire rate or high damage stock - then ignore everything else.

Being able to swap kitgun components as we please would also then let them add in a lot more variety to the parts themselves, rather than magazines just adding X statistical property:

• one magazine might also make your projectiles bouncy (or beams reflect off surfaces) or
• another might turn your bullets/catchmoon shots into heat seeking projectiles. Or
• some stocks could offer special firing modes like 4shot burst,
  • or let you do unique reloads - like borderlands lets you throw a gun away as a grenade and teleports another one in etc. 

This would actually make kitguns fun to tinker with (and encourage more fortuna standing grind, as once you have everything its another meaningless location), and would mean kitguns would no longer be something that you look up the meta build for on youtube, max out, then forget about.

I'm all for more part categories. But, adding more parts, without also doing something like the above, will only mean that people look up one extra weirdly named item for their meta build, before promptly forgetting about it again.

This is a really good assessment - and something I didn't even consider. Changing how the big pile of loaders work would add a lot of variety too! A true mix-n-match sort of thing with them would be good fun, actually being encouraged to collect all the parts. Maybe even getting a foundry upgrade from Zuud at some point to let you easily fiddle with the swapping from the orbiter/your armory. (And honestly - I wouldn't mind having incentive to return to the Vallis and grab more standing... I feel like there really should be more reasons to return to the established open-world zones, but that's another post in its entirety.)

As fond as I am of my meta pistol kitgun, this would be great - and the lore nerd in me appreciates you even reasoning with this in terms of what's established. 😄