Nightwave 2.0

[kz3dart]

When the first season of Nightwave came up , I was disappointed because DE is known for that, they try to implement the best solutions from all the game world into Warframe to make the best game-play available but this was bad. "Ok" I say, DE try to make something different than  Fortnite, Destiny2 and other games but finaly we get something good, something that will use 20 NPC we have in the game, or Syndicates, or... but this is 3 season and it still bad let me elaborate .

In Destiny 2 when season start you have 100 levels and you are rewarded with materials, seasons armors, season weapons, ornaments ect. So every 100 day you can collect something new and unique ... but this is no difference with Nightwave!? so what is the difference?? Difference so big that make me want to play all day , on every character in D2!, and whats is so bad in Nightwave that like the most players I want to finish everything in one go, one day as fast as I can?.

In my opinion the difference is in the approach to the system that grants player progress thru season. If you did not play D2 the progress thru season is achieve by simply collecting XP wherever you want, you want to play in PVP you can, and still progres thru season, you want to play Gambit you can and still progress thru season, you want simply roam the planets and do random quests you can and still progres thru season. There is no special way to get the progress. Of course you have special iteration of main game gameplay loop that are story related and break the monotony,  you still play the same, do the same , but with different "flavor" but you do not have to do those season mission to progress you can play whatever you want.

In Warframe we have many different game play mechanics, almost 20 NPC, different game play loops but the progress in Nightwave is limited to forcing you to play what DE want you to play. This approach to player is inherit wrong,  that's why 90% of players do not play those mission for fun they do them like homework, like some kind of punishment as fast as they can, so after they finish they can play what they want not what they are forced to do.

My hope for Nightwave 2.0 is change to something like D2 but with warframe flavor .

- Progress thru season will be XP related, we have regalia/sygils so let say if the season is Solaris related if you equip Solaris you collect more XP that let you progress thru Nightwave levels. You can play whatever you want and DE can cap progress to 7 levels per week by introducing every week  mission that allow you to go next 7 levels. So now Im playing what i want when i want and as long i want, imagine Protea quest made one step every week , so you get new warframe after 3-4 weeks not in first 1h of update.
- in every season we get Syndicates currency witch we can spend in Syndicates to add Syndicates effects to weapon of our choice, limit those so we can convert only 1-2 weapon per season but this will bring Syndicates to life and limit DE work with adding new weapons. #DE# of course you can limit weapons that are allow to have those proc like no Kuva or changing Syndicates weapons or simply add new proc like more credits now only in one weapon 😞.
- Nightwave offerings stay but to buy them you need to do Bountis/Missions from NPC all over the warframe so no picking mission from planet, only NPC Bountys Earth/Venus, Maroon, Darvo, Syndicates Medalions ect,. You still keep 80% of missions but now only players that wants to buy something play those because .. .After second never ending intermission I bet most of players have everything that Nora can offer so now collecting those credits is pointless , until we get some new mods but still its like one or two purchase and finish with Nightwave offerings, so giving those credits to all players is wasting of players time. "yee I get 50 creds I can buy ....nope I have everything including 50 potato and 100 nintans, 200k Kuva"

Those are simply changes that not only change the way we progress thru Nightwave but also revitalize the game, give players new ways to change weapons, let us farm seasons credits on mission that we like not some random one and giving DE more time to work.  Imagine how good those seasons become if DE have 3-5 weeks more to finish new warframe , to polish new quest mission becouse they do not have to finish everything like players in day one they can work on content as we thru alll 100day..

[MetalGrayFox]

Current system is okay, you compared to Destiny a lot, which uses a bounty system to boost XP. This is kind of similar, you can play missions with some bounties just completing (e.g. kill enemies, do some spies, do some sabotages etc) however for big XP you need to do certain things in the Warframe universe. Similarly in Destiny, the last few season just had ppl taking bounties and farming lost sectors. I hear it has changed/will change, not sure how much difference the changes will make.

I am not sure bringing in the Destiny approach would be as effective in Warframe, as Warframe does not have bounties, so this will basically just push ppl to buy affinity booster to rush through the weekly XP cap. I think the Warframe system is better, the flavour is there with doing a variety of things (some passively done as you play).

 

[chaotea]

On the other hand: Destiny 2 forces you to play every day to get the maximum rewards, however Warframe lets you play when you can / want.

- Doing it by xp is stupid, as its not balanced. An MR 1 player may have to grind for 30 hours to get that xp filled each week. I can earn enough to max rank 3 weapons, a warframe and a pet (plus pet weapon) in a single 20 min run. Plus as we have affinity boosters, it suddenly becomes a pay-to-win system.

- Syndicate weapon conversion would ruin balancing for the most part, but more than anything else it would make the concept of 'syndicate weapons' obsolete. Better as it is now that these weapons feel special.

- First, the offerings are ballanced so you can get most of these items you want by level 30. The extra credits is for those who want to use it to get kuva or nitan, or those who dont have everything and want alt helms, ect. Second, forcing people to run missions they dont want to do in order to get specific things seems silly. Though i do agree that something new should be added. Riven shards or relics maybe?

You say 'let us farm seasons credits on mission that we like not some random one ', but just before this you were saying that you wanted to get bounties from specific npcs instead off just picking mission. So you want to let people pick a mission, but not let them pick a mission? Very few bounties say 'do this one type of mission', and even then are a limited amount. Far more are applied to every mission.

[ShortCat]

22 hours ago, chaotea said:

Doing it by xp is stupid, as its not balanced.

I see it as OP. The exp comparison was an attempt to introduce and explain an universal measurement unit.

The problem with Nightwave is, that it points at certain tasks and says "do it". There is no other way to gain standing from a "find 3 Sabatoge cashes" task, other than do 3 Sabotage missions. NW does not check, whether the content it points at is actually good content. I have over 3k gameply hours, I have done pretty much everything there is. In order for me to actually enjoy Warframe at his point, I actively avoid certain activities and focus on what I like to do. Such a strong-arm approach is a solid turn off. I imagine every player feels the same with a certain task, which is bad design.

Of course, not all tasks are this bad. "Kill 500 enemies" or "Kill 100 Eximus" or "Collect 8 rare mods" are universal tasks and can be completed by just playing the game. There are ways to finish them faster, like going into ESO for Eximus, or Index for rare mods, but you do not have to. Players still have options to chose where and how they want to finish such task. Options are good.

Under this circumstances a universal currency to progress within NW would lead to an overall improvement. Experience just happens to be universal. That said, it doesn't have to be experience, just something not as narrow as "Find 3 cashes".

 

[chaotea]

6 hours ago, ShortCat said:

The problem with Nightwave is, that it points at certain tasks and says "do it". There is no other way to gain standing from a "find 3 Sabatoge cashes" task, other than do 3 Sabotage missions.

........... I have over 3k gameply hours, I have done pretty much everything there is. In order for me to actually enjoy Warframe at his point, I actively avoid certain activities and focus on what I like to do. Such a strong-arm approach is a solid turn off.

........... I imagine every player feels the same with a certain task, which is bad design.

........... Of course, not all tasks are this bad. "Kill 500 enemies" or "Kill 100 Eximus" or "Collect 8 rare mods" are universal tasks and can be completed by just playing the game. There are ways to finish them faster, like going into ESO for Eximus, or Index for rare mods, but you do not have to. Players still have options to chose where and how they want to finish such task. Options are good.

........... Under this circumstances a universal currency to progress within NW would lead to an overall improvement. Experience just happens to be universal. That said, it doesn't have to be experience, just something not as narrow as "Find 3 cashes".

 

Just to counter argue here for another perspective,

I find the 'do 3 of x mission' way more enjoyable than 'kill x eximus' kind of missions. Because I know that if i do 3 missions, ill get the payout. But the generic ones are such a dice roll. I could do 3 missions, or i could do 5.

Ive got alot of game time too. Im up to MR 28 (so close to 29, but im not doing kdrives 😛) As such most of what i do is survival or other endless missions, because its best for affinity grinding (all i really do is formaing these day, but i like it). So I like that these missions make me do something different.

True, im sure at least 1 player dislikes each task. This is probably why there are so many varied tasks. Also why you dont need to do every one of them to complete rank 30.

These tasks are bad. As you say theres efficient and un efficient ways to do them. Sure you could just eventually get 500 kills, but its way better to jump into 1 low level survival and clean up. Yes you could eventually kill 100 eximus, but its way faster to jump into ESO. You could pray to RNG gods for 8 rare mods, or just do index and get them in 1 run. To take the view that these are 'tasks you can get just by playing, then surely you should be able to see that the others are the same. Im sure over a week you'd probably end up doing 3 captures, ect. Maybe a relics there, or an alert. Maybe it rolls into the sortee.

Universal currency for NW would make it exactly the same as syndicates, and thus utterly boring. Now im not against some changes to the NW system. I voiced my complaints when it first came out, and to be honest alot of my complaints got sorted (like the fact you no longer 'loose' bounties after the week is up). Sure its can get better, but i feel incrimental improvements to the existing system is a better view than scrapping the entire thing to just do something thats already in the game in another form (syndicates and focus. Dear god we dont need another focus).

 

[ShortCat]

15 hours ago, chaotea said:

then surely you should be able to see that the others are the same.

Except, a good half of exsisting tasks are not.

15 hours ago, chaotea said:

Universal currency for NW would make it exactly the same as syndicates, and thus utterly boring. Now im not against some changes to the NW system. I voiced my complaints when it first came out, and to be honest alot of my complaints got sorted (like the fact you no longer 'loose' bounties after the week is up). Sure its can get better, but i feel incrimental improvements to the existing system is a better view than scrapping the entire thing to just do something thats already in the game in another form (syndicates and focus. Dear god we dont need another focus).

Currency was not the best word to describe it, universal progression maybe? Something that does not shoehorn players into predetermined paths.

 

15 hours ago, chaotea said:

Also why you dont need to do every one of them to complete rank 30.

Following words go off topic, but this arguemnt is a huge fallacy and has no value.
It may be true at the start of NW, but the more time passes, the less time remains to progress within a running season. Especailly, since there is no fixed/known end date. Season 3 might run the intended 15 weeks, so somebody who starts playing today, or next week, or a week after would have to do all tasks to safely reach rank 30. They also already missed daily tasks and are only allowed to recover 3 tasks per week, so they cannot just catch up. "You do not have to do them all" is only true, if the player is there at the beginning and stays till the end. Otherwise, it is false and an unnecessary FOMO source.
Furthermore, why is reaching rank 30 the final goal? Last internmission lasted half a year, there surely was enough time to reach rank 30 and collect all rewards, but stretching those 30 ranks over 180 days is a pitiful yeald. NW has not only rank rewards, but also shop items. You would get whooping 450 shop creddits to buy exclusive auras, weapons, mods, cosmetics, resources & potatoes. Aiming only for rank 30 is a horrible advise for newer players, since they need NW shop items even more than rank rewards. Additionally, those are usually the people who cannot easely complete all taks.
Now combine FOMO from uncertainty in NW's runtime, inability to progress at full speed as well as dire need for essential, yet limited items and you have a recepie for misery.

This is a view of a person, who is at the top and forgot how it is to climp up.

[chaotea]

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

Except, a good half of exsisting tasks are not.

I feel like you just ignored everything I said there. Its about how the general missions are often rng related, while the more specific missions offer a clear and concise mission / reward structure.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

Currency was not the best word to describe it, universal progression maybe? Something that does not shoehorn players into predetermined paths.

The problem is that everything shoehorns you into certain paths.

I feel you've more ideas on what it shouldn't be than a clear picture on what it would be like. Lets talk about how it would be if it was changed to universal. Every challenge would be universal. So only 'kill x enemies', 'kill x eximus' & 'pick up x rare mods' would be available. So you'd do three bounties and that's it. Because EVERY OTHER BOUNTY shoehorns you in some way.

Complete x amount of a mission type, that's out. Scan simaris? You only get 1 race and have to go to a specific tiles set to scan so that's out. Complete sorties is out, as that's shoehorning you into that. Complete index without leaking, out. Defeat an eidalon, or profit taker, that's out. Kill x enemies with a specific element? That's shoehorning you into using a specific elements, so that's out.

This is the issue, as everything in warframe, at a base level, requires you to do a specific thing (be it a mission type or enemy type) to get a specific reward. To do anything else is to go against the grain of the game itself and just doesn't work.

The OP referenced Destiny 2 a lot, but spoiler alert, Destiny 2 is repetitive garbage. And I say this as someone who loved it. But I got board after about 8 months and walked away. Its bounties ask you to do specific missions, or do generic kill missions that are just bounty version of beacon quests you do since day 1. and while it may make players want to come back for 100 days to do 100 levels, it also means you have to come back for 100 days or you miss out. Warframes nightwave is great because I can put time into it when I want / can. Some days I get an hour or two. Some days I cant spare 10 min. But that's ok.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

Following words go off topic, but this arguemnt is a huge fallacy and has no value.

Not true. If you get to level 30, you get all the unique rewards for the nightwave. Anything above 30 is a bonus for non-unique rewards that can be gained even in intermissions.

So getting to level 30 is the only really important thing. Doing every mission can get you to rank 30 in 8 weeks. So the argument does have value.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

It may be true at the start of NW, but the more time passes, the less time remains to progress within a running season. Especailly, since there is no fixed/known end date. Season 3 might run the intended 15 weeks, so somebody who starts playing today, or next week, or a week after would have to do all tasks to safely reach rank 30.

What about the person who starts 3 min before the NW ends? Changing bounties to universal isn't going to help that. I don't think this 'people starting late' is enough of a rational to say that the idea you don't have to do every bounty. If you only play for the minimum weeks, then yes, you'll have to do every bounty. But that's like saying that schools should open later, because some students might sleep in.

The point is that you don't need to complete every task each week to get to 30. There's enough bounties that even not getting any dailies you can still complete the NW. As for the catch up system, Im pretty sure its 3 at a time, and that you can complete those 3 to get the next 3.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

Furthermore, why is reaching rank 30 the final goal?

Its not, but 30 is the end of unique rewards you cant get in other seasons. So its the ultimate goal, but anything else is a bonus.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

You would get whooping 450 shop creddits to buy exclusive auras, weapons, mods, cosmetics, resources & potatoes.

None of these are exclusive. They're available in every NW offerings, and sometimes in alerts.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

Aiming only for rank 30 is a horrible advise for newer players, since they need NW shop items even more than rank rewards.

Im not advising new players, im advising people hurumphing about how they don't want to do bounties that make them do 3 sabotages once every 4 weeks. New players will be doing all these missions anyway as they work though the star chart.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

Additionally, those are usually the people who cannot easely complete all taks.

The tasks they usually cant complete arnt the shoehorn ones however, as these are relatively easy for newer players. Its just the more exotic, like railjack or sorties. Fortunatly these are rarer missions.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

Now combine FOMO from uncertainty in NW's runtime, inability to progress at full speed as well as dire need for essential, yet limited items and you have a recepie for misery.

 

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

inability to progress at full speed

You said you ageed with the OP, who wants a change from the 'do it all at once' to a more 'one task a day' system. That's not progressing at full speed.

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

This is a view of a person, who is at the top and forgot how it is to climp up.

I get this is a personal view, and im the same. But the main issue in this discussion is the OPs desire to make NW not better, but less interesting. The comparisons to destinys weekly bounty system is flawed, because that system with its factions is far closer to a combination of Syndicates and Focus. Lets also not forget that Destiny 2s season is built around the fact you have to pay for it. Its stretched over 100 days because it wants to seem worth the price tag.

If you only read 1 bit here, then this is the biggest point for me.

To pick out 1 bit of what the OP said, from the viewpoint of a player at the top:

On 2020-06-15 at 11:41 AM, kz3dart said:

In Warframe we have many different game play mechanics, almost 20 NPC, different game play loops but the progress in Nightwave is limited to forcing you to play what DE want you to play.

The issue with this statement I have is this. There are many play mechanics, 20 NPCs, different loops. AND IVE DONE IT ALL. There's no reward left for me to do a sabotage any more. When was the last time I chose to do a spy? What do invasions have to offer me? The only thing that holds value at this point is high level missions for levelling guns, and whatever new content comes out. Honestly that's fine, I enjoy it. But NWs 'shoehorned' missions give me a chance to explore mission types and planet tilesets I rarely play. It gives me a reason to go back to lower level missions and less affinity lucrative gamemodes. At its heart, Nightwave keeps the game interesting, and encourages me to ingage with the Nightwave system. If it simply wated me to get kills or find mods. Well i'd probable do what I usually do and keep running Sanctuary onslaughts over and over.

And to be honest, I rush through the challenges each week, because it excites me to do so. If I had to come back one a day, it'd be like log in rewards. And I couldn't care less about them. Sure, I want the stuff. But the repetition of doing it every day eventually doesn't seem worth it. The changes suggested risk pulling all the interesting parts out of NW, making it another daily log in reward, focus farm or syndicate standing. Sure its not perfect, but at least its different.

 

[ShortCat]

8 hours ago, chaotea said:

Its about how the general missions are often rng related, while the more specific missions offer a clear and concise mission / reward structure.

This is definitely not the case. "Kill X enemies" is not RNG, "Find 8 rare mods" has RNG elemets, but you roll the dice everywhere in the game. The main difference is not RNG, but number of available options to solve a task. The range.

On the other hand: "Catch fish" or "Mine stuff" or "Find cashes" or "hunt wildlife" or "Complete X races" etc leave very little freedom and are islands you might have finished years ago + just plain boring.

8 hours ago, chaotea said:

I feel you've more ideas on what it shouldn't be than a clear picture on what it would be like. Lets talk about how it would be if it was changed to universal. Every challenge would be universal. So only 'kill x enemies', 'kill x eximus' & 'pick up x rare mods' would be available. So you'd do three bounties and that's it. Because EVERY OTHER BOUNTY shoehorns you in some way.

Imagination. I am not a proffesional game developer, but if I can come up with some tasks in 2 minutes, then DE should be able to do so as well:

• kill x with consecutive headshots
• kill x in lifted state
• revive X teammates
• ragdoll an enemy x meters
• finish a mission without taking damage

...etc, some new tasks like "complete a mission only with melee" follow those guidelines.

9 hours ago, chaotea said:

Complete x amount of a mission type, that's out. Scan simaris? You only get 1 race and have to go to a specific tiles set to scan so that's out. Complete sorties is out, as that's shoehorning you into that. Complete index without leaking, out. Defeat an eidalon, or profit taker, that's out. Kill x enemies with a specific element? That's shoehorning you into using a specific elements, so that's out.

Doing X missions is not inherently bad, if said missions are well made or if at least certain spin is added to the mundane routine. It is also OK to shoehorn in important activities, like Eidolons or Orbs. On the other hand, when was the last time you logged in and though "I would really like to run some Rescue missions."? Probably never, yet NW asks you to do it. If parts of the game are not played/liked then make them better. Slapping a new carrot on a stick does not make the activity itself better. This is the point I am trying to make.

9 hours ago, chaotea said:

What about the person who starts 3 min before the NW ends? Changing bounties to universal isn't going to help that. I don't think this 'people starting late' is enough of a rational to say that the idea you don't have to do every bounty. If you only play for the minimum weeks, then yes, you'll have to do every bounty. But that's like saying that schools should open later, because some students might sleep in.

What about a person, who did not get the point? I am not asking to boost late-comers, but I see how they are put under pressure with FOMO as well as a possibility to perform unpleasent tasks. This is a double red flag with core design!

10 hours ago, chaotea said:

The point is that you don't need to complete every task each week to get to 30

Just a sentence above you already noticed it does not work that way. Why are you still repeating it?

10 hours ago, chaotea said:

Its not, but 30 is the end of unique rewards you cant get in other seasons. So its the ultimate goal, but anything else is a bonus.

It was a rather rhetorical question. Even then, you defend a standpoint, that playing less Warframe is somehow good? NW had not the intent to let players play less, it should be an incentive to play more. By saying "Don't bother with everything" you confirm the mistake, but you are not conscious of it.

10 hours ago, chaotea said:

None of these are exclusive. They're available in every NW offerings, and sometimes in alerts.

Exclusive to NW.

10 hours ago, chaotea said:

Im not advising new players, im advising people hurumphing about how they don't want to do bounties that make them do 3 sabotages once every 4 weeks. New players will be doing all these missions anyway as they work though the star chart.

So, there are people doing all those tasks, enjoyable or not. I am glad I am in a position to skip parts of the game while other scrubs still have to wade through S#&$. This could be one of the reasons for poor retention.

10 hours ago, chaotea said:

You said you ageed with the OP, who wants a change from the 'do it all at once' to a more 'one task a day' system. That's not progressing at full speed.

"Full speed" was used by me in entirely different context -> If you do not complete all tasks in a week, you will find yourself in situation where you do not reach creddit milestones for the shop and cannot buy anything for a week. Thus, miss a shot at an entire shop rotation, that could come in another 5 weeks. All this feeds into FOMO or negativ perception.
I also only agreed on a more universal approach, I thought it was obvious, since I wasn't talking about anything else.

 

10 hours ago, chaotea said:

But the main issue in this discussion is the OPs desire to make NW not better, but less interesting. The comparisons to destinys weekly bounty system is flawed, because that system with its factions is far closer to a combination of Syndicates and Focus. Lets also not forget that Destiny 2s season is built around the fact you have to pay for it. Its stretched over 100 days because it wants to seem worth the price tag.

I do not find current NW iteration interesting, or much different from any other syndicate. Never played Destiniy, so I cannot comment on any comparison.

11 hours ago, chaotea said:

There are many play mechanics, 20 NPCs, different loops. AND IVE DONE IT ALL. There's no reward left for me to do a sabotage any more. When was the last time I chose to do a spy? What do invasions have to offer me? The only thing that holds value at this point is high level missions for levelling guns, and whatever new content comes out. Honestly that's fine, I enjoy it. But NWs 'shoehorned' missions give me a chance to explore mission types and planet tilesets I rarely play. It gives me a reason to go back to lower level missions and less affinity lucrative gamemodes. At its heart, Nightwave keeps the game interesting, and encourages me to ingage with the Nightwave system.

This is exactly the point. Warframe has a ton of content, most of which is bad. Objectively, bad content does not get better, because it offers a shiny. I can enjoy an activity without meaningfull rewards. For me, those invasions do not get more enjoyable, because there is an Umbra Forma promissed at the end. I actively avoid them to ejnoy the game. You seem to be more reward centric.

[chaotea]

10 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Imagination. I am not a proffesional game developer, but if I can come up with some tasks in 2 minutes, then DE should be able to do so as well:

• kill x with consecutive headshots
• kill x in lifted state
• revive X teammates
• ragdoll an enemy x meters
• finish a mission without taking damage

...etc, some new tasks like "complete a mission only with melee" follow those guidelines.

Not to be too mean here, but i can tell. While headshots and lifted are fine enough, the others are terrible. Firstly, revive teammates relies on something compleatly out of control. With the others, you have to ask yourself 'whats the easiest way to compleate these tasks'. In the case of those, its a case of use this 1 warframe or dont bother. At least the compleate x missions lets you use whatever weapons or frames you want.

10 hours ago, ShortCat said:

when was the last time you logged in and though "I would really like to run some Rescue missions."? Probably never, yet NW asks you to do it. If parts of the game are not played/liked then make them better.

I went more onto this, but you're right, i dont choose sertain missions alot. Thats why its nice to be pushed back to these content bubbles by NW. I never choose to do spy missions, but actually had fun doing them solo during the sortie challange this week (i dont do sorties either usually. Or edilons. Though after doing the Tridalon challange it think i might get back into it again).

10 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Just a sentence above you already noticed it does not work that way. Why are you still repeating it?

Repeating it because the sentance above miss understood the point i was making, just like this one.

10 hours ago, ShortCat said:

It was a rather rhetorical question. Even then, you defend a standpoint, that playing less Warframe is somehow good? NW had not the intent to let players play less, it should be an incentive to play more. By saying "Don't bother with everything" you confirm the mistake, but you are not conscious of it.

Its not about playing less per say, but I dont think playing more is really a great thing. Do i like warframe? Sure. But I've been playing it for years. I also am playing alot of satisfactory right now. Also playing Before we Leave, Animal Crossing, Payday 2 and Deep Rock Galactic. Warframe isnt the only thing I want to play. In fact, once I reach level 30, I'm likely to stop playing every day and just passivly gain NW levels as i play. For me, being a top tier player, I dont need anything the shop offers. Even kuva. So yes, I stick the fact that level 30 is the goal. I get where you're comming from, but rather than a making a mistake, you're just not seeing the viewpoint im expressing.

10 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Exclusive to NW.

Which is almost constantly on with acts or intermissions.

10 hours ago, ShortCat said:

So, there are people doing all those tasks, enjoyable or not. I am glad I am in a position to skip parts of the game while other scrubs still have to wade through S#&$. This could be one of the reasons for poor retention.

The same could be said for endo farming, focus farming, kuva farming, ect. At the end of the day, every type of activity is neccisarry by some and optional to other. Thats the very nature of the game. And this wouldnt change by making it more universal. Those like us that can clear a map of 500 enemies in a few min might love the kill 500 enemies tasks, but some lower levels struggle more.

10 hours ago, ShortCat said:

"Full speed" was used by me in entirely different context -> If you do not complete all tasks in a week, you will find yourself in situation where you do not reach creddit milestones for the shop and cannot buy anything for a week. Thus, miss a shot at an entire shop rotation, that could come in another 5 weeks. All this feeds into FOMO or negativ perception.

To be clear, even getting all the credits this season, ive missed out on some rewards in rotation. But im not feeling any FOMO, as im confidant they'll be around again at some point.

10 hours ago, ShortCat said:

I also only agreed on a more universal approach, I thought it was obvious, since I wasn't talking about anything else.

I guess I was confused by the words you used and the fact you didnt say anything against the other parts.

10 hours ago, ShortCat said:

I do not find current NW iteration interesting, or much different from any other syndicate.

So the question is, how would the changes you suggest make it more interesting? I dont mind suggestions for change, but it has to be change for the better, not change for the sake of change.

10 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Never played Destiniy, so I cannot comment on any comparison.

What OP was suggesting would be like going to relays or foruna, ect, and talking to NPC's to get bounties (usually kill x of an enemy faction). Youd get about 5 bounties a week from that NPC (i think you can only hold 5 at a time) and you'd get reputation just for that NPC (basically what we already have for faction standing).

10 hours ago, ShortCat said:

This is exactly the point. Warframe has a ton of content, most of which is bad. Objectively, bad content does not get better, because it offers a shiny. I can enjoy an activity without meaningfull rewards. For me, those invasions do not get more enjoyable, because there is an Umbra Forma promissed at the end. I actively avoid them to ejnoy the game. You seem to be more reward centric.

Personally i dont think im as board of basic missions as you. Im reward centric sure, but arnt we all? Oftem, i play just to level, but i never really do a mission just for the experience, but because i want to gain something from it. If you're not interested in rewards yourself, why would you even bother with Nightwave in the first place? Its not like its actual content itself. It was brought in originally as a way to replace the alert system. Though if we can agree on something, the invasions are shoit 😄

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by chaotea