Answer De, What's The Purpose Of Removing Content?

[Lenzerker]

...and I'm serious about that, I can't see what's the point.

 

As we're all aware now, DE was deciced (once again) to remove content from the game and I'm wondering why.

If you're new to the game you might not know but this already happened before:

 

#1. In closed beta there was a pistol called LATO VANDAL, given to closed beta testers upon the transition to open beta;

 

#2. Later there was the BRATON VANDAL, only available to players who participated in the Open Beta Celebration Weekend;

 

#3. The SNIPETRON, removed from the game on update 8 (with the excuse that it didn't fit the plot);

 

#4. The SNIPETRON VANDAL, a one-time only exclusive (for those that participate the Informant Event);

 

#5. the STRUN WRAITH, another one-time only exclusive (for those that participate the Survival Weekend Event);

 

#6. The ETHER DAGGERS, the MACHETE, the BOAR and the GORGON all vanishing in a few hours;

 

#7. And I might recall you that EXCALIBUR PRIME, SKANA PRIME and LATO PRIME are all saying farewell at November 1st, with the end of the founders program.

 

...and I didn't even mentioned the RAID missions and the exclusive MODs available (mostly in events) and then removed.

 

As a player and as a game dev. I can't understand what's the purpose on removing content.

To be clear and direct, I'll enumerate some reasons that might be argued:

#1. Game-SIZE: Nowdays most games are bigger, in GBs, than Warframe. Also there's no "freeing space" since whomever has the weapons won't lose then, they will only be impossible to get for new players. In a sense they aren't removing content they are blocking it. Fact that makes me feel cheated, since there's content in-game that I cannot unlock by any mean;

 

#2. Game-BALANCE: another nonsense, if a weapon is too powerfull, or too weak, you just need to toy with their statistics, play with the numbers. Online games survive, mostly, based on their variety, removing content is the same than shortening the life-span of the game itself;

 

#3. Items-UNUSED: Same as before. Reduce content, kill the game. With a larger array of gear is obvious that some will be more used than others. If this fact bothers de dev. team, balancing the weapons would be a better way to make some weapons "more popular";

 

#4. item-REPLACEMENT: Same as before. Reduce content, kill the game. You're going to introduce a new weapon that will take the place of an old one? Why not just add the new one? Also this relates to the SIZE matter, you're not removing the gear it still there with the players that got it before;

 

#5. New-METHOD: Ok, so the devs decided that they will change HOW the player will obtain that weapon. That's somewhat fair but you should WARN the players about it. If you're gonna change how a weapon is obtained it's just fair to tell the community that's what's going to happen;

 

#6. EXCLUSIVES: That's a hard one. Some players simply LOVE exclusive content for reasons I'll not dare to mention. Anyway, in my opinion, exclusive content is a way to punish some players while rewarding others, when this is money related is even worse. Pay more earn more exclusives is segregation. At last to be fair, I'm not against prize gear, complete the event earn a gun, join the founders earn gear, and so on. But it shouldn't be the only and permanent way to get it.

 

...the end. FOR NOW!

Edited October 15, 2013 by Lenzerker

[honeybadger]

Raid was boring. Machete, Ether Daggers, Boar, and Gorgon were subpar choices of strictly superior versions. Everyone &!$$ed their pants when the Snipetron was removed without warning -- SVandal was an olive branch.

SWraith and Founder's items are exclusive items. They were never available to the general playerbase so they were never removed from the general playerbase. This extends to event exclusive mods as well (which, by last count, is ONLY Primed Chamber).

Edited October 15, 2013 by honeybadger

[CubedOobleck]

ExcaliburP, LatoP, SkanaP, all the Vanadals and the Wraith were meant to be exclusive from the moment they were introduced so they don't fit at all in the matter of removing content. For the rest I mostly agree.

Edited October 15, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[JackPrime]

In some games they choose to cycle items to create artificial supply and demand. While some of the items are being removed at present, that does not mean they won't pop up at a later date.

 

Personally, I agree that removing weapons makes no sense. Why? With no Endgame content, the only long term goal in this game is Rank. If you know starting out that you will never be able to achieve maximum rank, do to removed content, it can be discouraging and also cause for some players not to pursue continued play. New players that are goal driven and competitive players will quickly realize they will never be able to catch up to the Ranking of players that  received exclusive items or items no longer available. 

 

As an example in professional sports such as running, biking, etc., people have the hope from the start they can make 1st place if they put in the hard work and dedication to their sport. Would they still be willing to compete if they knew heading into a race that the best they could ever do was 14th place?

[honeybadger]

As an example in professional sports such as running, biking, etc., people have the hope from the start they can make 1st place if they put in the hard work and dedication to their sport. Would they still be willing to compete if they knew heading into a race that the best they could ever do was 14th place?

There is no need for a Mastery Rank over 8 at the moment (or is it 9?). Also, this is a PvE game, so any rankings based on Mastery Rank are meaningless because Mastery Rank is a measure of time invested and nothing else. If you care about getting 1st on a leaderboard, this is not the game for you.

[LtZefar]

Raid was boring. Machete, Ether Daggers, Boar, and Gorgon were subpar choices of strictly superior versions. Everyone &!$$ed their pants when the Snipetron was removed without warning -- SVandal was an olive branch.

 

Raid was more fun than Rescue. All they needed to do was improve it. Which could be easily done.

 

The weapons could have been buffed quite easily to make them on par with some other weapons. Going by the "They where subpar weapons" we could easily just justify removing every other pistol other than Acrid. Because Acrid absolutely rules. But that'd be silly.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I really wish they'd add a downvote. 

On topic: The majority of your list are items that weren't removed, they were just exclusive items. The Snipetron had a valid reason for removal. Raid had statistics backing it up apparently. The founders program was never intended to last forever IIRC, so its retirement (along with the removal of the exclusive founders content) was inevitable. This new list of weapons that are being retired are obviously being retired for a reason.

[honeybadger]

Raid was more fun than Rescue. All they needed to do was improve it. Which could be easily done.

 

The weapons could have been buffed quite easily to make them on par with some other weapons. Going by the "They where subpar weapons" we could easily just justify removing every other pistol other than Acrid. Because Acrid absolutely rules. But that'd be silly.

Rescue has some challenge. Raid was just a rush to the mod, rush to extraction. You didn't even have to kill anything.

What I was getting at with the "subpar" weapons is that if they did just buff them, I think they would be too similar to other choices to be of any use outside of Mastery Fodder. Additionally, DE has not stated why they are being removed -- they have all the stats on who uses what for how long, I bet these were among the most underused weapons. However, the Gorgon did fill a niche that is not currently being filled (Grakata and Soma are two sides of the spectrum, but Gorgon falls in between). I bet we will see the Gorgon again.

[Mosychuk]

The fact is DE is removing and adding content all the time for no other reason than: This is their game and they're polishing it to their standards.

 

If you realize the game is still being developed, and in BETA, and stop caring about yourself, it'll make more sense. If DaVinci was yet to add Mona Lisa's eyebrows onto the painting yet, and you liked it that way, do you really think you could have stopped him from adding eyebrows? To that standard, and analogy, WF is DE's art right now, they have a direction for it, and we just need to go along for the ride because we have fun playing their game.

 

It's beyond money, bias, expectation vs reality, etc... Just sit tight while WF prepares for retail, and DE can finally start adding content instead of testing/tweaking/adding/removing from the basics.

[Lenzerker]

In some games they choose to cycle items to create artificial supply and demand. While some of the items are being removed at present, that does not mean they won't pop up at a later date.

This is a valid reason, but if that's the case, why not tell this to the community? Won't you agree?

 

I really wish they'd add a downvote.

On topic: The majority of your list are items that weren't removed, they were just exclusive items. The Snipetron had a valid reason for removal. Raid had statistics backing it up apparently. The founders program was never intended to last forever IIRC, so its retirement (along with the removal of the exclusive founders content) was inevitable. This new list of weapons that are being retired are obviously being retired for a reason.

Inevitable? It's completly evitable. It's their rules, they do what they want.

The statistics about RAIDs pointed that few people was playing it isn't that right? If that's so, why not reduce their number instead removing them completely? Few people still people and the majority wasn't being punished because there was RAID missions in-game.

Also I guess I've already made it clear that I don't agree with exclusive content of any kind.

 

The fact is DE is removing and adding content all the time for no other reason than: This is their game and they're polishing it to their standards.

If you realize the game is still being developed, and in BETA, and stop caring about yourself, it'll make more sense. If DaVinci was yet to add Mona Lisa's eyebrows onto the painting yet, and you liked it that way, do you really think you could have stopped him from adding eyebrows? To that standard, and analogy, WF is DE's art right now, they have a direction for it, and we just need to go along for the ride because we have fun playing their game.

It's beyond money, bias, expectation vs reality, etc... Just sit tight while WF prepares for retail, and DE can finally start adding content instead of testing/tweaking/adding/removing from the basics.

The devs make games for the players at least that's how I believe it should be as a dev myself.

Also about the BETA, so you're basicly saying that you're OK if the devs choose to reset your account (warframes, gear, mods...) after the BETA is over? I bet you would find that very FUN!

By the way I'm not "caring about myself", I have most of the gear mentioned and some of them I simply don't care, personaly.

I'm thinking about the community in general, mostly about the newcomers, and in what I believe to be fair.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Lenzerker

[DiabolusUrsus]

This is a valid reason, but if that's the case, why not tell this to the community? Won't you agree?

 

 

Inevitable? It's completly evitable. It's their rules, they do what they want.

Also I guess I've already made it clear that I don't agree with exclusive content of any kind.

 

 

The devs make games for the players at least that's how I believe it should be as a dev myself.

Also about the BETA, so you're basicly saying that you're OK if the devs choose to reset your account (warframes, gear, mods...) after the BETA is over? I bet you would find that very FUN!

By the way I'm not "caring about myself", I have most of the gear mentioned and some of them I simply don't care, personaly.

I'm thinking about the community in general, mostly about the newcomers, and in what I believe to be fair.

I agree that it'd be nice to have a bit more information on what is going to happen subsequent to the removal of the Gorgon, Boar, Ether Daggers and Machete, but it's not like we're going to be killed by a lack of information. I've already ranked the Boar, and hated every moment of it. Same with the Gorgon. I've got the Blueprints for the Ether Daggers and Machete, so I can still get them if I ever feel like making them. (Not likely.) The point being that it's enough that the Devs warned us this time, unlike what happened with the Snipetron.

 

The exclusive Founder's content was supposed to end earlier this year, so I say that it's about time that it actually ends. Either cough up the cash or live with the fact that you missed out on some items. No big deal. It's actually important for DE to get rid of Founder's packages, since their main appeal is their worth as a status symbol. The longer they're available, the more people can get that "status symbol," and the less exclusive it becomes. As a result, the packages are devalued a bit.

 

I agree that simply removing content rather than buffing it to a level of acceptable viability is not the best idea. However, I'm hoping that the removal is simply a transition to the introduction of new and improved versions of the weapons, perhaps available through clan research. Just look at what happened with the Snipetron and Lanka.

[Makemap]

Ah, I knew there was something missing. Raid missions, wth!

[MrEscher]

people rushing to the exit no matter the objective, sudden loads of enemies out of nowhere, lockdowns all the goddamn time, glitches, unbalances of difficulty in a same mission... and they want to give attention to remove some guns out of the game in the BETA?

 

look there's a lot more to take care in the game than to remove content out of it. the game itself is repetitive, the co-op resumes in rushing, and in the end everyone goes farming in defence. the game needs more, not less. it needs to be fun, not repetitive.

don't get me wrong here, warframe is a great game, but it needs more work first.

 

for once, after you get caught the A.I. always know where you are. and suddenly there are so many enemies in screen that you have nowhere to take cover, left alone recharge your shield. and the lockdowns are so annoying

stealth still doesn't work properly, and it's hard to kill every enemy before they ring the alarm.

you have to play forever to level some mods to max. to make weapons, to polish then so you can use the mods you want. to get drops that you want. it gets boring

 

all these stuff should be taken more attention before removing content from the game, mainly in BETA.

[ShinoKami007]

i agreed with the OP, why removing vandals, even turning to wraith is a mistake, from my point

...but i agreed with the other point too, why exclusive content?

those rare weapons could be obtainable from alerts, in parts like for vauban (just an idea)

 

...

[fatpig84]

people rushing to the exit no matter the objective, sudden loads of enemies out of nowhere, lockdowns all the goddamn time, glitches, unbalances of difficulty in a same mission... and they want to give attention to remove some guns out of the game in the BETA?

 

Those are not DE problems.

In fact you contradicted yourself there.

 

 

1) People rushing is beyond DE's control. 

Even if they added immense rewards, rushing is still better.

And people who screamed at RNG for boss farming got their wish, with guaranteed BP drops.

And you know what that encourages ?

 

MORE rushing. 

Because unlike the old system, where some people just log out if the part isn't what they fancy, the entire team has to extract to see what part they got.  So they go even faster but hey you wanted less farming right ?

 

 

2) Loads of enemies spawning.

With my Loki on solo, i rarely trigger alarms at all.

In fact, on Corpus maps, I have navigated entire rooms that were empty, it was boring as hell.

So I'm sorry, I don't see that problem, even if I messed up, I can get away with it.

 

 

3) Lock downs and double doors.

They ARE supposed to slow down rushing.

Contradiction much ?

 

 

4) Unbalances in a same mission.

Please kindly tell me what unbalances you get ?

Like the entire Grineer extermination consist of nothing but Scorchers and Napalms or something else ?

Edited October 16, 2013 by fatpig84

[tactical_surgeon]

Those are not DE problems.

In fact you contradicted yourself there.

 

 

1) People rushing is beyond DE's control. 

Even if they added immense rewards, rushing is still better.

And people who screamed at RNG for boss farming got their wish, with guaranteed BP drops.

And you know what that encourages ?

 

MORE rushing. 

Because unlike the old system, where some people just log out if the part isn't what they fancy, the entire team has to extract to see what part they got.  So they go even faster but hey you wanted less farming right ?

 

 

2) Loads of enemies spawning.

With my Loki on solo, i rarely trigger alarms at all.

In fact, on Corpus maps, I have navigated entire rooms that were empty, it was boring as hell.

So I'm sorry, I don't see that problem, even if I messed up, I can get away with it.

 

 

3) Lock downs and double doors.

They ARE supposed to slow down rushing.

Contradiction much ?

 

 

4) Unbalances in a same mission.

Please kindly tell me what unbalances you get ?

Like the entire Grineer extermination consist of nothing but Scorchers and Napalms or something else ?

I don't know if it's just me but I feel like there is sometimes too little enemies ~ 

 

[azmyth1]

@Fatpig84: "Like the entire Grineer extermination consist of nothing but Scorchers and Napalms or something else ?"

That would be SO MUCH FUN!
 

[Wolfstorm18]

Rushing is a player problem, not a game problem. The double doors are welcome.

 

Also I dont find many players in Phobos, its very rare to find some there. I usually do defense, survival, etc, alone in Phobos.

 

The Corpus outpost map also have few players, and most of the time I do survival alone on them (Ose and Triton).

 

Why this happens? Because the nubs only want to rush voidz, to get rare prime weaponz and then show them as a sign of status.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Wolfstorm18

[OblivionNecroninja]

Raid was boring. Machete, Ether Daggers, Boar, and Gorgon were subpar choices of strictly superior versions. Everyone &!$$ed their pants when the Snipetron was removed without warning -- SVandal was an olive branch.

SWraith and Founder's items are exclusive items. They were never available to the general playerbase so they were never removed from the general playerbase. This extends to event exclusive mods as well (which, by last count, is ONLY Primed Chamber).

Oh? So, how do I get the Ammo Mutation mods, then?

[Salvo1]

I agree with the OP.  Removing stuff an never making it available again is just a way to make new players feel penalized and left out.  Also, not balancing weapons does ensure that there's not as much variety, and therefore less stuff to use/do, which does lead to a lack of game longevity.  It also makes players not able to pick the weapons that fit their personal style and playstyle and forces them to choose the strongest weapons, not their favorite ones.  And if those players can't play the way they want, they're less likely to keep playing and give money to the developers.

 

I don't understand why Digital Extremes makes so many exclusive and limited time items that are so great (especially the Strun Wraith) that only makes newer players left out.  Don't they realize that if this game is to be a success that they'll need a lot of growth, AKA lots of new players who WON'T have access to all the old exclusives?  That's not exactly a good way to welcome your new players, the lifeblood of your game.  "Hey, welcome to Warframe, look at all this cool stuff that the old veterans have which you will never ever be able to get ever (and some of it is best in class gear that trumps anything you can get right now no matter how long you play or how much money you spend).  You want to start paying real money for platinum now?"

[Azure_Kytia]

In regards to the weapons, I think it's a relatively obvious point that they just don't know what they're wanting to do at this point.

 

First, Sidegrades.

Second, Tiered weapons. Alright.

 

So wait, they're removing Tier 1 weapons from the game because they aren't good enough/widespread enough any more? Why not adjust the Mastery then to encourage players to work with Tier 1 equivalents until they can earn Tier 2 equipment. You could set it up in such a way that each mastery rank unlocks a category or two of weapons, with a special thrown in for good measure

 

Tier 0 : Mk 1 BRATON, Lato, Skana, Machete and other weak Melee weapons

Tier 1 : BRATON, AkLato, Dual Skana, Dual Cleavers, BOAR, Dual Ether Daggers and the like

Tier 2 : Gorgon, Grakata, Bolto, Boltor, Glaive, Kestrel, etc

Tier 3 : -insert stuff here to your imagination-

 

This removal of weapons is silly. Tiers are supposed to have equivalents in other tiers, generally.

[honeybadger]

Oh? So, how do I get the Ammo Mutation mods, then?

Well, they are dropping, but since the drop tables are encrypted...we don't know for sure where.

[cuzquitow]

Maybe the future of warframe will be more interesting to rank up, other than leveling weapons.

[Altey]

In regards to the weapons, I think it's a relatively obvious point that they just don't know what they're wanting to do at this point.

 

First, Sidegrades.

Second, Tiered weapons. Alright.

 

So wait, they're removing Tier 1 weapons from the game because they aren't good enough/widespread enough any more? Why not adjust the Mastery then to encourage players to work with Tier 1 equivalents until they can earn Tier 2 equipment. You could set it up in such a way that each mastery rank unlocks a category or two of weapons, with a special thrown in for good measure

 

Tier 0 : Mk 1 BRATON, Lato, Skana, Machete and other weak Melee weapons

Tier 1 : BRATON, AkLato, Dual Skana, Dual Cleavers, BOAR, Dual Ether Daggers and the like

Tier 2 : Gorgon, Grakata, Bolto, Boltor, Glaive, Kestrel, etc

Tier 3 : -insert stuff here to your imagination-

 

This removal of weapons is silly. Tiers are supposed to have equivalents in other tiers, generally.

Im against tiered weapon system 

[LunchBoxKilla]

As a player who isn't going to S#&$ them selves over new shiny things.. I prefer my gorgon over the Soma any day of the week... I carried my gorgon since my rank 2 to now.. I bought that sucker for 50K and its been true to me.... Its mostly nostalga but She's a beefy gun.. May not have flashy thing sliek crit but if modded right can out shine a soma.