Mastery Tests Need A Serious Overhaul

[Kiregean]

Let's face it, at this point the topic has been brought up a thousand times and it all devolves to the same argument of "It's there to gate content" or "It's there to test skill." Neither of these arguments is valid in the grand scheme of things. Mastery Tests should be revised to give access to additional planets/zones rather than Warframes and weapon variants as well as the cooldown timer should be quartered or removed entirely. The fact that you can purchase a weapon or Warframe via a bundle for platinum (IE Prime bundles) and it straight bypasses Mastery Rank but if you wish to craft the same weapon you are unable to is beyond nonsensical.

Furthermore much of the gatekeeping is illogical. Warframes in particular. Rank 0 encompasses nearly the entire Warframe roster except for Mesa Prime, Titania Prime, Limbo Prime, Equinox Prime, Hydroid Prime, Wukong Prime, Chroma Prime, Zephyr Prime, Banshee Prime, Mirage Prime, and Oberon Prime and yet these Warframe's non-Primed versions are available at Rank 0. Does that make sense? No one could make an argument that would explain that given that for nearly every Prime variant the only difference is a minor health, shield, and energy boost with different polarity.

Let's be completely honest here, and I know for many of you that means putting your ego aside and using logic and reason. Gatekeeping weapons and Warframes serves no purpose, any player can be equally effective with Nekros as they can with Banshee Prime or Mirage Prime or any other Warframe for that matter. The same extends to Primary, Secondary, and Melee weapons, there's no reason to prevent someone from accessing certain weapon types for days or even weeks because of an arbitrary system in which the test most of the time doesn't even correlate to the weapon/Warframe that it locks. Granted the tests could be remade to actually correspond to what they lock and then MAYBE it would make sense.

An example of this would be that if they wish to continue to gatekeep content then taking the Rank 8 test for instance, you would choose to use one of the three locked Warframes (Banshee, Oberon, or Mirage) with one of the locked weapon types to undertake a task that fits those.

And to preempt the already foreseeable "But you can do it easily and get to Rank (insert number) fast, just follow a guide." or some other bollocks along those lines. Remember that much of Warframe falls on the RNG factor. Unless one were to buy platinum and constantly exhaust their trades daily to obtain parts then one must rely on RNG in hopes of getting the parts to make the next weapon or Warframe you need to be able to accumulate Mastery Points in order to reach the next rank meaning that if someone was lacking on time (As many of us with demanding jobs are) then we could be locked out of using our preferred weapons for substantially longer than necessary all because of this unmitigated disaster we call the Mastery System.

Now then if someone wishes to present an argument that extends outside the aforementioned scope then I'll gladly hear you out but as of this time I can say with rather certainty that it's time this system be overhauled.

[Marine027]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb Demithian:

Furthermore much of the gatekeeping is illogical. Warframes in particular. Rank 0 encompasses nearly the entire Warframe roster except for Mesa Prime, Titania Prime, Limbo Prime, Equinox Prime, Hydroid Prime, Wukong Prime, Chroma Prime, Zephyr Prime, Banshee Prime, Mirage Prime, and Oberon Prime and yet these Warframe's non-Primed versions are available at Rank 0.

That is simly gameplay aspect, so MR hasa reason to exist at all at least. What speaks against higher MR anyway? Easier to level things later due more mod points from the start. It is a gameplay aspect vs logic and lore, something you always have to split in games ot a certain degree even fi DE foolishly trys to explain gameplay mechanics lore wise often that clearly should not be connected.

It is like asking why no one executes you in a game when captured and give you the chance to escape, it is dumb yes but then you would have a game over or so early and no game.

I rather wish MR would mean more for people rather then a fake status then be forgotten and pushed away because people nor like it, it is not hard to reach a certain level, i tho say very, very old weapons and frame,s non prime ones should get a xp boost due very outdated, we simply goten to much over time and it shows now and DE tries to balance this out with MR.

[taiiat]

your explanation you request of why you can't skip to __ Prime at Mastery 0 is so that the Player is actually encouraged to like, yno, play the rest of the game there rather than just skipping the majority of the Solar Map and making __ Prime for everything. Players end up doing it as soon as possible anyways, even despite it, so.

Weapons have Mastery requirements because some Weapons are intentionally made to be objectively superior. this trend has some rocky places like Shotguns, but it's the same deal as __ Prime then, it's separated out to encourage you to engage with the rest of the game instead of skipping it. 

i don't see it as a big deal that a Mastery Test and the things that you gain access to don't necessarily (and usually won't) thematically pair with each other. there's two different sides to it, one side is the actual Test that asks the Player to know how to do something, and the number side that is a rough gauge of the Players' experience with stuff in the game.

i don't think having every Mastery Test be themed specifically around a few Warframes or Weapons is that practical - it's a strictly linear system, rather than a Parallel one. there isn't much for a logical reason to have Warframe __ set before or after Warframe __. what you say would be a nice thing for the game to do, but probably not with Mastery Rank, rather with some separate system.

 

it sounds like it's you that has an ego problem.

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locked out of using our preferred weapons

that's sounding a lot like a compaint of not being able to skip the stuff in the game and go straight to whichever Equipment someone heard in some Youtube Video is ""OP"".

[Firetempest]

MR is a system to make even 'trash' items compelling to collect and build and entices all players to participate in playing all levels of content to earn them and buying slots for collectors. Or to pay money to skip the time gate all together. Its all business oriented and shoehorned as progression. Most Primes are MR0 as they likely stand to make more money on new players buying plat to trade for them.

In other words, my personal feelings about MR is moot. Its not really players you need to debate and convince into changing the system simply because you as a consumer don't want to participate, nor pay. Unless the new thing to replace it offers equal or more revenue options and 'encourages' equal player participation in farming, The minimal MR locking wont be changing. But DE is also reluctant to add locking past 16 as the return on players looking at that time investment likely has diminishing effects.

[Kiregean]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

it sounds like it's you that has an ego problem.

that's sounding a lot like a compaint of not being able to skip the stuff in the game and go straight to whichever Equipment someone heard in some Youtube Video is ""OP"".

And you immediately devolved into one of the arguments I already pointed out so let me point this out once more. I don't care what some foolish Youtuber likes, I use weapons and items I prefer and always have. Going back to my actual point... If someone is limited on time having specific item classes, not specific items (which prime or not there are many weapon types locked behind the Mastery barrier) and this can become a time sink that not all of us have thus negating the enjoyment of the game. I frankly could care less about the rate of progressing quickly through the Story as I've experienced it a great deal already on PS4 but as for weapons and Warframes I have preferred ones that I cannot access because I'm forced to redo the tedious grind that is the Mastery System.

[Kiregean]

Also to anyone who might bring up the "Well if you want to skip it just buy the Prime bundle to get the Warframe and Weapon you want." That would be a valid option if they weren't vaulted and rotated so that limits the ability to get whatever you want even if you have the funds to do so.

[taiiat]

7 hours ago, Demithian said:

I frankly could care less about the rate of progressing quickly through the Story as I've experienced it a great deal already on PS4 but as for weapons and Warframes I have preferred ones that I cannot access because I'm forced to redo the tedious grind that is the Mastery System.

making a Thread requesting to set something on fire because of extraneous circumstances, isn't a very good reason.

i made the effort to bring up a few different aspects of Mastery separately from each other to talk about them, and expected to then talk about them...
though your strategy was to just try and bully anyone that doesn't agree at a 100% level that.
but it's k, unfortunately for you, i wasn't born yesterday and those strategies don't work on me to neither deflect the subject matter or hide ulterior motives.

[Kiregean]

On 2020-08-25 at 4:41 AM, taiiat said:

making a Thread requesting to set something on fire because of extraneous circumstances, isn't a very good reason.

i made the effort to bring up a few different aspects of Mastery separately from each other to talk about them, and expected to then talk about them...
though your strategy was to just try and bully anyone that doesn't agree at a 100% level that.
but it's k, unfortunately for you, i wasn't born yesterday and those strategies don't work on me to neither deflect the subject matter or hide ulterior motives.

You didn't make any arguments, you merely said exactly what I'd said is always the answer everyone gives and yet you provided ZERO to the conversation of why this outdated system is still around especially given how many of the rank tests are broken or bugged. There's so many issues with Mastery Rank quests that are reported constantly including but not limited to malfunctioning AI, clipping issues, disconnect issues, quest loading failure issues, broken NPC behaviour (Rank 9 in particular you can fail instantly as the 2nd mob's line of sight is such that it can see through and behind walls so crouching does nothing to prevent being spotted and you must immediately rush behind or be spotted and half the time be spotted anyway because running can trigger the alert behavior causing it to turn.)

Everything you've said equates to nothing more than bragging rights for duration and does nothing to further gameplay. Testing skill would be one thing if the rewards correlated to the skills they tested but when there is none it's simply an arbitrary barrier to slow progression and given the fact they are talking about vaulting older content that seems no longer needed. There is enough content to keep new players busy for a long time and the fact of the matter is that I've seen more than enough new players frustrated by storyline much less tossing the nonsensical Mastery system on top to drive them insane. I've done half the content and the Mastery system still drives me mad moving from PS4 to PC. There are so many factors which can cause you to fail without even failing of your own accord simply because of the nature of the programming. Your excuses for why it should stay, your so called points, weren't valid points at all being as you ignored the biggest issue completely, that of the lockout timer.

[taiiat]

40 minutes ago, Demithian said:

 you ignored the biggest issue completely, that of the lockout timer.

there wasn't anything to say about the 'Cooldown' Timer and other facets of Mastery Tests i didn't speak of - because everyone since 2013 has agreed on those aspects so there's nothing to talk about on those, everyone (but Digital Extremes apparently) already agrees.

[Lutesque]

On 2020-08-25 at 2:03 AM, Demithian said:

No one could make an argument that would explain that given that for nearly every Prime variant the only difference is a minor health, shield, and energy boost with different polarity.

Actually The Energy Difference is far from Minor depending on which Warframe.

The best example used to be Volt & Volt Prime... Vanilla having 150 Energy while Prime has 300 Energy... That's Double The Maximum Energy...

Of course this was last year... I don't know if it's still the case.

 

[Kiregean]

11 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Actually The Energy Difference is far from Minor depending on which Warframe.

The best example used to be Volt & Volt Prime... Vanilla having 150 Energy while Prime has 300 Energy... That's Double The Maximum Energy...

Of course this was last year... I don't know if it's still the case.

 

As mentioned before nearly every Prime is Mastery Rank 1 except for a few and in the grand scheme double energy doesn't make much difference as energy orb drops are fairly prevalent and even basic frames can maintain max levels relatively easily.

[Kiregean]

57 minutes ago, taiiat said:

there wasn't anything to say about the 'Cooldown' Timer and other facets of Mastery Tests i didn't speak of - because everyone since 2013 has agreed on those aspects so there's nothing to talk about on those, everyone (but Digital Extremes apparently) already agrees.

If everyone agrees then the the argument is already validated. People have hated them since the inception of them, the lockout has always been a problem since anything that interrupts can trigger it meaning that not only does it not test skill but it can also punish players for aspects out of their control. That alone says the system needs a rework and no one with any bit of common sense would disagree. And referring to it as a cooldown is being pleasant, it's a lockout if not a punishment. It's the equivalent of the punishments on other games for their Dungeon/Duty Finder/Whatever system they use that blocks you from using the particular system. It's the same, it locks you out of content for 24 hours regardless of if the failure was your own fault or a bug/glitch/disconnect. Trying to say otherwise is disingenuous at best.

[Lutesque]

7 minutes ago, Demithian said:

double energy doesn't make much difference as energy orb drops are fairly prevalent and even basic frames can maintain max levels relatively easily.

The only situation where Double Energy doesn't make much Difference is ESO since Simaris keeps undoing your Progress and Disables Items.

Everywhere else having Double the Energy Pool is a game changer.

I don't know what Prevalent means.... All I know is Energy Orbs are not Reliable.... Even if they were they are only worth 25 Energy each... For most Warframe's that's only enough to use their first Ability a single time.... Do you know of a Warframe that can kill enough enemies with. Single Caste of their first Ability ?

The only one that comes to mind is Octavia.

[Kiregean]

15 hours ago, Lutesque said:

The only situation where Double Energy doesn't make much Difference is ESO since Simaris keeps undoing your Progress and Disables Items.

Everywhere else having Double the Energy Pool is a game changer.

I don't know what Prevalent means.... All I know is Energy Orbs are not Reliable.... Even if they were they are only worth 25 Energy each... For most Warframe's that's only enough to use their first Ability a single time.... Do you know of a Warframe that can kill enough enemies with. Single Caste of their first Ability ?

The only one that comes to mind is Octavia.

Their first ability? Well Chroma for starters but other abilities can murder entire rooms instantly if modded right. Khora is a prime example, my Stranglethorn can destroy entire rooms instantly and I usually solo Survival maps for 30-45 minutes easy double casting, it never running out modded for duration, range, and power.

[R.A.H]

24 hour wait for a forking test to be done again because I failed at tracking the targets and shoot them. What targets? Didn't know wtf to shoot until till the end. The cooldown timer of 24 hours is frustrating and stupid.