Energy Siphon Is Currently Unhealthy

[Replacement]

*I do not want to nerf Energy Siphon.

*I do not  play super endgame stuff.  If you think this invalidates my opinion, just close the tab/window now instead of responding with fallacious arguments which don't address my issues.

 

I'm starting to hate how much I require Energy Siphon.  I am sad for the friends of mine who do not have this aura, because we are playing different games.  They're playing this game where they need to focus on guns beyond all else and occasionally have a neat trick to pull.  Particularly while playing solo.  I'm playing a game where I can always plan my combat around my power use.  

 

My issue in a nutshell: Energy Siphon distorts the game too much for a mod as rare as it is. 

 

A secondary problem this causes is that all other auras are moot in comparison to energy siphons, which only get better when stacked.

 

All I really want is a personal, non-Rage, non-Alert energy return mod.  It seems the easiest way to implement this (and I'm surprised it isn't in the game already!) is as weapon mods which give a portion of damage dealt as energy gained.  I'd like to see something like that priced at 6-11 mod slots, but I'd even use it at a cost of 10-13.  This method comes with built-in opportunity cost (as a weapon mod, it forces the user to give up damage mods).  This also frees up other aura mods to actually see the light of day.

 

If DE doesn't agree with that implementation, figure something else out.  Ideas are cheap.  Come up with one that makes me less reliant on blue balls and a single, hard-to-obtain, game-changing aura mod.

[Ned_Wiki]

Energy Siphon is top-tier. I'd like to have Energy Leech / Life Leech weapon mods though because I'd like to be even more immortal.

[Genoscythe]

Well, theres always fleeting expertise and streamline, makes my rhinos ultimate go 25 energy, I dont even need to collect all blue orbs in a game. An enery returning mod would be nice, how bout energy return for ability damage gained? it makes you use your abilites more wisely and you could be rewarded with energy for using it well and not on every 3 or 4 mobs.

[Hybridon]

Then Im crazy for using Regeneration and Rifle Amp on some of my builds? :(

[Tsoe]

We Have "Rage" for that

 

 

it convert health lost in energy

 

now go find it and have fun

Edited October 21, 2013 by Tsoe

[honeybadger]

The addition of corrupted mods has lessened the strict need for Energy Siphon. I find myself picking Rifle Amp or Corrosive Projection much more often now that I have +duration and +efficiency corrupted mods.

[taiiat]

4pts unranked

5 rank mod

0.5% energy per connecting shot(alternatively per ammo used). calculating the actual totalled per hit damage(including all elementals and etc), not the potential damage. the damage you actually dealt to the enemy.

 

3% of your damage returned as energy is actually a lot, before you complain it's too low. 

even at 3% such a mod would allow you to use a 100E power with one magazine of the average assault rifle, even with mods that aren't that great.

 

3% might even be a bit high. come to think of it, it probably is. 1% is probably the best number.

We Have "Rage" for that

someone's good at reading.

 

edit:

though, to be fair, i almost always have Energy  Siphon equipped, and most of my frames.... i can't use Energy fast enough. it's pretty much always full.  save for more intensive groups of enemies, such as some of the Mobile Defenses and Defenses with massive enemy counts. even then, i only ever really end up using 150 or 175E at any given time, and then all's quiet on the Western Front.

Edited October 21, 2013 by taiiat

[cruceo]

I am with you on the non-super-endgame game play but I do have a different experience. I use Rhino and Nova as my two main warframes and I find that I rarely am starving for energy when I do not have the energy siphon aura. I do tend to use my melee weapon quite heavily with rhino and only use my 4th skill when there are a lot of enemies. Usually when there are that many enemies the energy is refilled by the drops so I never end up running out. Occasionally (in T3 defense) my Nova runs dry from anti-matter spam but thats part of the difficulty in my opinion. 

 

There are mods that reduce the cost of powers too so you are more efficient in your power use. I guess what I am trying to say is that I do not agree that there is a problem with energy drops. I will admit that the mods are on the rare side and could probably use a lower level version for people who are newer to the game, but at the same time that is the challenge of playing the game. The lasting appeal of the game is to be able to keep getting stronger.  Just my 2 cents

[Seanjuju]

I use rifle amp. I disagree that energy siphon 'distorts' the game. It supports a play style. You'll need to explain in more detail what the issue is. Aside from that, we don't need more ways to obtain energy.

[Tyrian3k]

My solution would look like this:

 

Auras stop stacking, so players will benefit from having different auras equipped.

Their power may need adjustment with this and the equipped aura needs to show up in the mission lobbies, but it would solve the problem of energy siphon being the only used aura.

[TheStag]

Some frames are built upon power, some are built upon weapons, and some are nicely balanced.

Vauban is based on power. He is very squishy.

Rhino is built upon weapons and tanking, and some of his abilities complement that.

Excalibur is nicely balanced. See?

[CubedOobleck]

All you say is true and yet energy siphon isn't as useful as it used to be, at least in 'stationary' mission like endless defense, survival and mobile defense energy is always available because the orbs don't despawn. Even on regular missions I rarely bring energy siphon anymore because I like using streamline and I often find plenty of energy in lockers and crates.

Energy siphon is indeed good, but I don't think it's that much better than other auras anymore.

Auras stop stacking, so players will benefit from having different auras equipped.

But stacking is half the fun of auras, that'd take away to much of what makes them special. Edited October 21, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[Ned_Wiki]

Some frames are built upon power, some are built upon weapons, and some are nicely balanced.

Vauban is based on power. He is very squishy.

Rhino is built upon weapons and tanking, and some of his abilities complement that.

Excalibur is nicely balanced. See?

Yeah except Rhino is the most powerful caster in the game.

He's the strongest, fastest, smartest, biggest Warframe. Him and Trinity are disproportionately more powerful than everybody else. Which I love because I main them.

[CubedOobleck]

Him and Trinity are disproportionately more powerful than everybody else.

Meh, that's always arguable and depends on the situation: imo they are the warframes with the most survivability, but I wouldn't say they are the strongest. Edited October 21, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[Tyrian3k]

But stacking is half the fun of auras, that'd take away to much of what makes them special.

 

Ok, what the hell is supposed to be fun about always stacking 4 energy siphons?

[CubedOobleck]

Ok, what the hell is supposed to be fun about always stacking 4 energy siphons?

Who says it will be energy siphon? I almost never stack energy siphon, but it's fun to organize with your clan and having the option to stack 2 or 3 or 4 of a particular aura is part of it. Edited October 21, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[Ned_Wiki]

Meh, that's always arguable and depends on the situation: imo they are the warframes with the most survivability, but I wouldn't say they are the strongest.

But they are the strongest.

Trinity is invulnerable 100% of the time with infinite Blessing.

Rhino is invulnerable 100% of the time with infinite Stomps.

If you put them together they are the most broken comp you can think of. They can never die and kill everything in the game with impunity. Godtier.

[Seanjuju]

Yeah except Rhino is the most powerful caster in the game.

He's the strongest, fastest, smartest, biggest Warframe. Him and Trinity are disproportionately more powerful than everybody else. Which I love because I main them.

Rhino and Trinity are survivability frames. They're not the fastest or the most powerful.

[Ned_Wiki]

Rhino and Trinity are survivability frames. They're not the fastest or the most powerful.

Rhino is the fastest. Rhino Charge + Rush/Vanguard helmet. GG nobody is outrunning that.

Trinity isn't the fastest but she's invulnerable 100% of the time. Same thing with Rhino.

They CAN'T die. If that doesn't make them godtier nothing will.

[CubedOobleck]

Rhino is the fastest. Rhino Charge + Rush/Vanguard helmet. GG nobody is outrunning that.

Trinity isn't the fastest but she's invulnerable 100% of the time. Same thing with Rhino.

They CAN'T die. If that doesn't make them godtier nothing will.

Meh, only Trinity is really really hard to kill, but even so what good does that do if you can't protect a rescue target or an objective? Rhino can definitely die, his iron skin has defined limits and sometimes you just can't run away, luckily he can do good damage too, but he doesn't really excel in anything, nowadays he's the jack of all trades even more than Excalibur.

In some situations crowd control or stronger nukes are more useful, other times survivability or speed are the best choice and that's just looking at solo without considering team strategies.

You just can't say such and such warframes are The Best and hope people agree with you; and before you even think of saying I haven't tried them, trinity is my main and I've used rhino for a long time too.

[theammostore]

"Energy Tap"

Convert X% of damage dealt into Energy

 

D polarity, Rare, 9-13 cost

 

Starting numbers for X, feel free to suggest your own: 1,2,3,4,5

 

"Convert 1% of damage dealt into Energy"

"Convert 2% of damage dealt into Energy"

"Convert 3% of damage dealt into Energy"

"Convert 4% of damage dealt into Energy"

"Convert 5% of damage dealt into Energy"

 

With this, it gives people with lower damage builds plenty of energy, as more often than not those low damage builds are very fast rate of fire, while those with high damage builds don't get infinite energy constantly. If both people are starting at 0 energy, there will be plenty of downtime for them to use their guns. How's this?

[LtZefar]

Rhino is the fastest. Rhino Charge + Rush/Vanguard helmet. GG nobody is outrunning that.

Trinity isn't the fastest but she's invulnerable 100% of the time. Same thing with Rhino.

They CAN'T die. If that doesn't make them godtier nothing will.

 

Scorcher will roast both of them in under a second. Well Scorcher does that to everyone. About Rhino not being able to die is though a bit false.

 

Iron Skin isn't all that tough on high levels. In fact it gets ripped apart quickly. Unless now you're relying on Rhino Stomp when using maxed Flow. Then I can understand Rhino not dying so easily. But otherwise Rhino can go down quite quickly against high level enemies.

 

As for the Aura itself. I don't exactly find it to be the most powerful one. In solo it only regenerate 0.6 Mana per second. I find more mana from enemies with that and when I got maxed Flow I have no need for this mod. Due to that Rhino Stomp kills enough enemies to drop more than 4 orbs.

 

With Rhino I just stick with the Assault rifle amp Aura(Well it's the only useful one I can use) but it's hard to tell if there is a huge difference with it on or not.

 

Also those who suggest having anything that acts as life steal but for mana have no idea how insanely over powered it'd be.

The Mana regen on the mod is 0.6 per second. We have weapons that fire far more bullets per seconds and several bullets at once.

[Replacement]

I use rifle amp. I disagree that energy siphon 'distorts' the game. It supports a play style. You'll need to explain in more detail what the issue is. Aside from that, we don't need more ways to obtain energy.

Ok. I can try to give a bit more detail.

When I say it distorts the game, I mean it literally changes how you play.

I'm glad you make use of rifle amp. But it augments your rifle play in a natural way -- by making your rifle x% better at doing what it already did: kill stuff you're looking at.

By contrast, energy siphon lets you play in an entirely different way. To come close to how much this changes the game for people who rely on powers, imagine if rifle amp completely removed reload animations. Bottomless clips. Do not get hung up on the power this example theoretically provides. Focus on how this would change your Boar strategy. That shift in strategy is similar to what happens when a backliner like me gets a hold of energy siphon.

I don't honestly think this distorts the game in a *bad way*. It just shouldn't be the only way to enable this playstyle.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Replacement

[LtZefar]

You get more mana orbs from enemies than what Energy Siphon can regenerate faster.

 

I don't see how it drastically change the gameplay unless someone just wait for mana to refill.

[Replacement]

Dry spells. They happen. They suck.

EDIT: I wish I didn't fire off that ^ response. Whether or not you happen to find blue balling your missions sufficient, a mod that enables all new functionality instead of improving existing (streamline, flow) will always create a jagged-edged break in gameplay between the haves and have-nots. It sucks to be a couple of my friends when I'm not around.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Replacement