Valandras Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 First things first, the game has huge potential. The gameplay is great, the combat is fast, frenetic and fun. Its looks nice, and is actually well optimised for a beta. Customisation is again great. Deep and complex, lots of options for builds and tactics. Aaaaaaand then the "micro"-transactions show up, and things nosedive rapidly. Its easy to argue that everything is "optional" and that nobody needs to buy anything to progress, and its true. As far as I know, the devs are going for "Pay-to-Shortcut" instead of "Pay-to-Win". But £20 for a frame? Platinum sale options that go up to £100 (which should in itself tell you everything you want to know about Warframes "F2P" model). And the worst, most scummy kick in the teeth for free players I have ever seen (outside of maybe SW:TOR); Pay 4 Respawns. Wow. Just wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namacyst Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 And the point of this Thread is...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog548 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Pay to win is something we always need to watch out for and hold the Devs in check for, but I don't see any basis for what you're claminging about the game as-is. Pay to shortcut is exactly what we've got going on so far, including paying for respawns. You get 4 respawns per warframe per day. I almost never hit that cap unless I get a wild hair to try a mission I'm just not prepared for. The closest thing to a valid complaint currently I think is the pricing and money to plat exchange rate maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixShot Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Respawns reload on an 24 hour basis, once they are going they reload again for the next day, so everyday one gets 4 respawns PER FRAME! that is damn generous, they could have just said 4 respawns for all frames but its only per frame so it is awesome. The frame cost? buy an blueprint, farm the materials and you have it, took me 3 days to get everything i needed for the rhino minus 3 more days of crafting. And 100 dollar platinum is to be able to give you bonuses. Or they could just kill the bonuses and have a 5 bucks only for 75 plat. 2100 Pt (1500 + 600 Bonus Pt) USD $99.99 Best Value Most of the time it will be between 5-10bucks for catalysts and reactors/slots everything else does not bother to much, just craft and farm. I see no problem what so ever to offer a better deal. Its regular sales, you can buy this mazda for 500 bucks or this used BMW for 1000bucks, you pick. Edited February 22, 2013 by SixShot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FateZero Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 This is not even cost to pay to win; all weapons and frames can be built in-game without platinum. Reactors and Catalysts drop from alerts. Mods are not buyable and can be found by anyone and are random. Respawns cannot be bought during the mission, so if you run out, you will still fail the mission. (afaik, correct me if I'm wrong) Also if you happen to run out of the 4 respawns for the day, you might want to get better gear, do an easier mission, party up, or just back out and retry/rejoin the mission. Nothing that helps you win in missions are platinum exclusive, everything is either found or buildable in-game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valandras Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 This reminds me of the WarZ forums. "ITS NOT P2W ITS JUST DIFFERENT AND YOU DONT UNDERSTAND IT" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveDude8 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Games like Warframe are NOT pay to win. They are at best pay-for-convenience, at worst pay-for-not-spending-a-day-getting-one-item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixShot Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 This reminds me of the WarZ forums. "ITS NOT P2W ITS JUST DIFFERENT AND YOU DONT UNDERSTAND IT" Either that or the fact. 2 different completely forums with almost 99% certanty are also different people are giving you the same answer, either you are wrong or a lot of other people are wrong. Explain to me how it is p2w to have a frame faster then you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feindfeuer Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 4 respawns per frame per day for free, and free unlimited respawns back into the lobby. As this game has absolutly no downside to player death, no lost items, no lost xp, no nothing, i don't see anything wrong with restarting the mission again. I personaly have more than enough plat (see founder status) but i have no idea why anyone would ever buy revives. But maybe i have a bit of an old-school mentality to restarting a level instead of relying on unlimited retries. Also optional you could always get some friends to also revive you for free an unlimited time during mission, it's an co-op title after all. (though I have to admit, i solo most of the time, unless my friends are online) If i were you, I'd complain about the limited inventory slots for warframes and weapons instead. Do that and you'll have my support. That's something i'd personaly call P2W, as free players are heavily limited in the tactical selection prior to a mission, while paying players can have a wide variety of setups to face any combination of enemies and eviroment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G3rman Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 If i were you, I'd complain about the limited inventory slots for warframes and weapons instead. Do that and you'll have my support. That's something i'd personaly call P2W, as free players are heavily limited in the tactical selection prior to a mission, while paying players can have a wide variety of setups to face any combination of enemies and eviroment. Specced right any frame can take on any level. They need more variety and more strength/weaknesses unique to the class before you can argue from that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Steve Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Sorry if you're frustrated but I can't see how we can make everyone 100% happy without giving away everything for free and going out of business. :( We have been vigilant in always providing a way for items acquired through platinum having a blueprint or credit equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencley Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Agreed, This is NOT Pay2win. You can obtain everything in game and a relatively easy pace and small time frame. 3 days in i started crafting rhino, After rhino 3 days later i crafted Frost. No problems what so ever. THe fact they require you buy WArframe slots is fine, It is like most free to play games you have to buy character slots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G3rman Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Sorry if you're frustrated but I can't see how we can make everyone 100% happy without giving away everything for free and going out of business. :( We have been vigilant in always providing a way for items acquired through platinum have a blueprint or credit equivalent. That's fine Steve, and I agree that there should be a plethora of things that cost platinum, but the plat/currency ratio is a little crazy when you look at it. Having to pay over 20 dollars for a single warframe which basically equates to a new class? That is a bit insane.. I like the direction you are going with skins and other cosmetic items being platinum only, as they are in most other cash shop games. Just it feels like for the price the warframes and some of the weapons it isn't worth buying with platinum. Edited February 22, 2013 by G3rman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Steve Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 That's fine Steve, and I agree that there should be a plethora of things that cost platinum, but the plat/currency ratio is a little crazy when you look at it. Having to pay over 20 dollars for a single warframe which basically equates to a new class? That is a bit insane.. I like the direction you are going with skins and other cosmetic items being platinum only, as they are in most other cash shop games. Just it feels like for the price the warframes and some of the weapons are it isn't worth buying with platinum. Fair point and something we're apt to reevaluate. At the very least rotating sales gives us a chance to experiment with that without screwing ourselves and having to raise everything (which causes more grief in that direction). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwicanfly Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) lol, its a business, if they made every thing free then they would go bank rupt. pretty much every thing you can buy with plat can be made for free, which is very generous compared to other F2p games. - though they should make weap and frame slot avaliable to free players. eg. rank up bonus/ gift Edited February 22, 2013 by kiwicanfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feindfeuer Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 They also Specced right any frame can take on any level. They need more variety and more strength/weaknesses unique to the class before you can argue from that point. Yes, most warframes are. But you ingore the part where the slots for weapons are also limited. And this limited pool includes melee, primary and secondary weapons. And some weapons are a lot better against certain enemy types as others, and having the ability to have a full set of primary, secondary and melee weapon to counter every specific threat is certainly a very real edge over someone who as to make do with a generic loadout that he has to re-adjust with mods between missions if he wants to get a good performance out of it. I personaly don't have a problem with that at the moment as i already have pledged quiet a bit of money and am happy with what i get in return. But it's one of the design decisions that bothered me from the beginning and that i will continue to voice my discomfort with until it gets changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenterr Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 It's only considered pay to win if there are items that you have to spend money on get and they are the only ones in existent but everything is free except the slots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaptafeltje Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Maybe i am stupid but how is this game pay to win? You are only fighting mobs and not other players. So if a dude wants to spend money so he has a easier time too clear the map, be my guest i say. If this game has pvp then its a complete other story. As for me there is no pay to win in a pve game only in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feindfeuer Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 It's only considered pay to win if there are items that you have to spend money on get and they are the only ones in existent but everything is free except the slots Sidegrade weapons/equipment and vanity items can be money-only without beeing pay2win, as they offer the paying player no advantage over the free player. And yes, Klaptafeltje has a good point, that as we're faced with a pure PvE enviroment, the advantage paying players have with the broader selection of weaponry and therefore effectivness versus those enemies is not realy a gamebreaking restriction for free players and therefore not pay2win. I still feel that people would probably be more willing to buy stuff if they didn't have to worry about having enough room to fit it all in. You can even see it in the thread about the end of the founder program, with people asking if they will be able to fit those prime weapons and frames into the inventory without having to expand it first. And i personaly always see this as a wall that hits me before i pay for something in a game. If i have to buy inventory before buying the item i actually want... i always hesitate... well, not atm, as i'm swimming in plat in this title. But a good comparison would be my spending habits in World of Tanks vs War Thunder... i have probably spend in the 2 months i played the later more than i've spend on the first in a year, cause i'm not restricted in my inventory space, i can keep all my stuff without having to expand a virtual 'bag' that holds it. And this makes spending my money a lot easier... and i like spending my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Steve Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Hey Feindfeuer - are you talking about a Plat weapon needing a slot? We are looking at changing this, I agree it feels like a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainDreamer Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) I think you guys are going really well with the skin options. I really like the new scindo/zoren skin, and would buy it, if it is around 20-35 plat (can't really justisfy buying it for $75 when it doesn't give anything extra like the helmet). When you guys have more skins for warframe/weapons, along with maybe special effects for abilities, maybe those prices can go down a bit, and I would buy more. I love customizing my stuff. At the moment, the onlything keeping me from going on a spree and buying founder is because of the catalyst/reactor. Nothing else seem worth buying over those, except slots. Only thing I bought outside of those was the colour extender. And I imidiately regret it, because with the same amout of money, I could buy more reactor/catalysts/slots, which are much more useful. Maybe remove those reactor/catalyst systems so that I don't feel like I am wasting money buying cosmetic, then I would buy a lot more cosmetics instead of just holding my money back and buy reactor/catalysts for new weapon/frame. Edited February 22, 2013 by RainDreamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cawkslapjones Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Games like Warframe are NOT pay to win. They are at best pay-for-convenience, at worst pay-for-not-spending-a-day-getting-one-item. Catalysts/Reactors? Those are definitely win items, they do NOT drop every day, and when they do, you have ~30 mins of a window to get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feindfeuer Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Hey Feindfeuer - are you talking about a Plat weapon needing a slot? We are looking at changing this, I agree it feels like a wall. Yes, that is kind of what i'm talking about... though that's only half of the problem (though it's my half), but I would prefer it if nobody needed those slots. Not me, buying my way to a wide selection of sci-fi murdertools, nor the free player who grinds weeks to get the resources and blueprints to craft the stuff. For plat buyers it's a additional pay-wall that may hinder a buy, for the other it's a point of frustration that might make him buy a slot, but may also just lead to him quitting on warframe, as he feels like he can't get past a certain point in terms of item progression. But maybe others don't see it as that much of a problem, but i can of course only ever effectivly argue from my own personal point of view as long as i don't have neutral info about the thoughts of others about this issue. Edited February 22, 2013 by Feindfeuer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G3rman Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Catalyst/Reactor system is bad, no one is denying it, but the point is that you do not have to pay to acquire them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namacyst Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Hey Feindfeuer - are you talking about a Plat weapon needing a slot? We are looking at changing this, I agree it feels like a wall. Hopefully if changes go in the direction where slots will be available for credits that those who spend plat for it get the option the get the plat refunded so they have the same chance to choose how to buy the slots like everyone who have not bought yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts