Harrow rework( for better?)

[Luan_Fsa]

 

Passive - Each kill under the influence of the Condemn and Thurible, grants the harrow and his companions in the affinity radius, 1% critical damage and critical chance, for 10 seconds, this bonus can accumulate up to 100%. Every 10 stacks the bonus time decreases by 1 second, where 1-9 stacks equal 10 seconds, 10-19 equals 9 seconds, and so on, when the remaining time runs out, all stacks will be lost. In addition, you possess 200% Overshields capacity, granting him a maximum of 2,400 Overshields.

 

NEW! condemn

Launch a wave of energy at the enemies that chains them where they are, after leaving the chains, the enemies will slow down. Each held enemy reinforces Harrow's shields. Chained enemies receive 50% bonus critical damage, 100% if it's a headshot.

Strength: 100 / 110 / 125 / 150 (shields per enemy)

Duration: 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 s (Chain)

Duration: 3 / 4 / 5 /6 ( slow )

Range: 15 / 16 / 18 / 20 m

Energy: 25

 

(same)

Penance Sacrifice shields to boost reload, and fire rate while converting damage inflicted on enemies into health for Harrow and nearby allies. Energy: 50 Shield Cost: 100% of shields & overshields on cast

Strength: 5%

(lifesteal on hit) 20% / 25% / 30% / 35%

(fire rate bonus) 40% / 50% / 60% / 70%

(reload speed bonus)

Duration:4 s (base time) 1.25 / 1.33 / 1.43 / 1.54 s (bonus per 100 shields)

Range:N/A Misc:50 m (affinity range)

 

NEW! Thurible

Channel life from arrow to thurible to generate a buff. once finished, killing enemies affected by skill will supply energy to nearby allies, the more health channeled, the more energy will be supplied, headshots provide bônus energy.

Strength: 6.67 / 7.5 / 8.33% / 10% (life convert)

Duration:20 / 25 / 30 / 35 s

Range:13 / 15 / 17 / 20 m

Misc:4.0x (headshot multiplier)

Energy: 25

 

 

(same)

Covenant Protect nearby allies with an energy force that absorbs all damage and converts it to a Critical Chance bonus for all those under the Covenant. Headshots are amplified even further. Strength:1.50% (critical per 100 damage) Duration:3 / 4 / 5 / 6 s (invulnerability time) 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 s (critical chance time) Range:N/A Misc:4.0x (headshot multiplier to bonus critical chance) 50/250 m (affinity range/open-world affinity range) Energy: 100

 

 

 

 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

And why are you suggesting these changes?

[S0me0ney0ukn0w]

As a harrow main i feel like i should comment on these changes, while i think harrow does need a buff i believe it should be small, and not as big as this would be, my stance is his condemn augment should be replaced with something more interesting and any/all allies in range of harrows abilities can trigger them the same way harrow can, ie allies in affinity range get the firerate/reload speed buff and gain lifesteal shared with all allies in the area, anyone in range of harrows thurible gain energy on kill 4x on headshot etc... basically just making it so you dont have to worry about your allies stealing your kills, aside from this i dont think harrow needs much improvement he is solid in his role as a support/buffer

that being said, your proposed changes:

2 hours ago, Luan_Fsa said:

Passive - Each kill under the influence of the Condemn and Thurible, grants the harrow and his companions in the affinity radius, 1% critical damage and critical chance, for 10 seconds, this bonus can accumulate up to 100%. Every 10 stacks the bonus time decreases by 1 second, where 1-9 stacks equal 10 seconds, 10-19 equals 9 seconds, and so on, when the remaining time runs out, all stacks will be lost. In addition, you possess 200% Overshields capacity, granting him a maximum of 2,400 Overshields.

this would be an incredibly strong buff and this buff alone would probably be enough to launch him to at the very least high A tier and potentially S tier i think this buff would be too strong i think his passive is good enough as is

2 hours ago, Luan_Fsa said:

NEW! condemn

Launch a wave of energy at the enemies that chains them where they are, after leaving the chains, the enemies will slow down. Each held enemy reinforces Harrow's shields. Chained enemies receive 50% bonus critical damage, 100% if it's a headshot.

Strength: 100 / 110 / 125 / 150 (shields per enemy)

Duration: 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 s (Chain)

Duration: 3 / 4 / 5 /6 ( slow )

Range: 15 / 16 / 18 / 20 m

Energy: 25

This is alright but i think the "chained enemies receive 50% bonus critical damage. 100% if it's a headshot" would be significantly more balanced if it were to take the place of harrow's condemn augment

as you havent edited penance or covenent ill skip over those

2 hours ago, Luan_Fsa said:

Channel life from arrow to thurible to generate a buff. once finished, killing enemies affected by skill will supply energy to nearby allies, the more health channeled, the more energy will be supplied, headshots provide bônus energy.

Strength: 6.67 / 7.5 / 8.33% / 10% (life convert)

Duration:20 / 25 / 30 / 35 s

Range:13 / 15 / 17 / 20 m

Misc:4.0x (headshot multiplier)

Energy: 25

not sure how i feel about this one given that it would furthur encourage players to build health, thus making umbral harrow more viable, however it also would require atleast a slight rework of the thurible augment as it seems kinda counter-intuitive to have damage reduction for the duration of which you are draining health but on the other hand it makes using this ability significantly more dangerous, i personally believe this ability is mostly good as is though i would like it to use affinity range instead of ability range purely to bring it in line with harrow's other abilities though i also recognise this would be too strong as it would make running negative range a very minor issue rather than it only being acceptable if your running sojmething like eidolons in which you only need the invincibility phase

 

overall i believe these changes are unnecessary and would buff him far too much, all he needs is a light touch up around things like trouble with kill stealing/nuking making it hard for him to keep his buffs up and/or get the most out of said buffs, the buffs you propose would bring him to the front of the meta as it would give many top tier frames immediately stronger if theres a harrow in the squad, I dont think we need a stronger mesa or wukong or even titania and with that passive if you bring a nuke frame like saryn then the buff from your passive would have 90% uptime at maximum which would be way too strong for weapons such as the kuva nukor, zymos or sporothrix to name a few, your talking about having a harrow and saryn in your squad meaning you get 1 tier higher crit always, which can vary from being a minor buff for some weapons to being a 21* damage buff for something like the kuva nukor with its insane crit damage

[sunderthefirmament]

Harrow just needs some QOL and a few tweaks to make him worth playing in a team.  He's an awesome frame with a fantastic concept and theme, but he suffers from needing to get kills himself and he has to spin too many plates to keep his kit functioning.  He's not as taxing or unfun as Gara (if you're maxing out the 2 damage).  But I would prefer to spend less time spinning my thurible.

 

For QOL:

• Double the base duration of Thurible.
• Headshots add +1 second (affected by duration mods) to Penance and Thurible.

 

For teams:

• All energy sacrificed while casting Thurible goes directly to allies in range.
• While spinning Thurible, allies in range gain some sort of other boost (power strength?  damage?  HP regen?).
• Put an "on finish casting" effect for Thurible, like a slight boost to shields for all allies in range.
• Remove/replace the Condemn augment and bake its functionality into Thurible's base state.

 

That said, Harrow is in a comparatively great place when you look at some other frames.  And if it's too much to ask of DE to rework/polish frames at all, than I would rather they focus on those who really need it, like Hydroid and Yareli.

 

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

And why are you suggesting these changes?

+1 this !!!

@Luan_Fsa according to the pinned threads here DE asks for Clean, Specific and Detailed Feedback.... It's going to be hard for them Decipher the reasons behind your Rework Suggestion....  So you really should start with describing the issue first....

 

1 hour ago, S0me0ney0ukn0w said:

this would be an incredibly strong buff and this buff alone would probably be enough to launch him to at the very least high A tier and potentially S tier i think this buff would be too strong i think his passive is good enough as is

You might be right but since this is a Team Synergy Buff then playing it safe just isn't going to cut it.... It really does need to be near broken for people to care about it.

 

[S0me0ney0ukn0w]

12 hours ago, Lutesque said:

14 hours ago, S0me0ney0ukn0w said:

this would be an incredibly strong buff and this buff alone would probably be enough to launch him to at the very least high A tier and potentially S tier i think this buff would be too strong i think his passive is good enough as is

You might be right but since this is a Team Synergy Buff then playing it safe just isn't going to cut it.... It really does need to be near broken for people to care about it.

if it was an active ability then yes but if simply having a harrow nearby gives this crit buff (im assuming it would be absolute crit chance like covenant) everyone would want harrow on their team, personally i think if DE made it so that allies could trigger harrow's on kill/on headshot kill effects that alone would solve all his problems assuming they also reworked the condemn augment, anything more than this would probably be too strong given harrows ability to make any weapon viable as a crit weapon notable examples being the sporothrix and the nukor he's very strong as is, he's just annoying to play if you have a nuker or someone running an aoe weapon on your team fix that issue and he immediately becomes significantly more playable