So I Don't Understand...

[Andaeros]

...The logic in this post - This is a reply that's a little altered from its former state, and thought perhaps some folks here could help clarify some issues below. Maybe I have it all wrong, maybe not.

 

 

From a Lore standpoint, the losing Faction doesn’t get their weapons, but the Lotus created blueprints to share with them so they can rank up and grow in their mastery like their brethren.”

 

 

This doesn't really make sense, because if she can make blueprints of the Grineer weapon why is that not doable with the Corpus one? Is the idea that the weapon is simply unobtainable because it doesn't reach Tenno possession and the Brakk does so it's able to be replicated? Because I recall there being this statement:

• You did not support them: A BRAKK blueprint stolen from a Grineer datacenter.

So did the Lotus create the blueprints or were they stolen? These two statements seem to conflict, and if the statement about them being stolen is true it's perfectly reasonable to imagine that they could have been stolen from the Corpus due to their losses and possible hasty retreat from their facilities.

 

 

Below are more quotes from Megan's post.

 

 

>  At a Design standpoint, this would have split the player-base for what gear they could get.

It *was* split already, I don't follow the logic but not a big deal I guess. Actually, this really doesn't seem logical.

>  The Grineer victors would be asking in a few weeks ‘how will we get that Corpus gun?’

While Corpus losers are asking why they don't get the Corpus gun. Again, I don't follow the logic.

>  This way we have a completely different weapon to roll out later on.

This makes sense, saves time of development as there is already something in the stash so to speak to roll out.

 

If anyone is without context here, I'm grabbing the quotes from https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/128185-november-4th-community-hot-topics/#entry1528755

 

Which is the most recent "Hot Topics" post by DE_Megan. I'm quite confused about some of these points,

Edited November 5, 2013 by Andaeros

[Anarties]

Since when did Warframe Lore make sense?

[Andaeros]

Since when did Warframe Lore make sense?

I'll play along and give the obvious answer; It hasn't, but that's largely for lack of content. In this instance, to me, this is contradictory which I haven't seen before.

[Anarties]

I'll play along and give the obvious answer; It hasn't, but that's largely for lack of content. In this instance, to me, this is contradictory which I haven't seen before.

The entire event was stupid "lore" wise to begin with.

 

Lotus: OMG TENNO, I'LL LET YOU PICK ONE OF THE BAD GUYS AND POTENTIALLY PIT YOU AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.

AS A LEADER I AM GOING TO NOT LEAD YOU.

 

This event was just a total mess and no amount of lore would ever let this make sense.

[Ziggypow]

Doesn't matter, played warframe

[BlueQuail]

We we're rewarded the Brakk.
Lotus reverse engineered it.

We didn't get S#&$ from the corpus.

[ValhaHazred]

Lotus: OMG TENNO, I'LL LET YOU PICK ONE OF THE BAD GUYS AND POTENTIALLY PIT YOU AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.

AS A LEADER I AM GOING TO NOT LEAD YOU.

More like "Hey Tenno, I'm your guide in a world you are just returning to and barely understand. Both sides have good and bad points, and I can't make the moral decision for you. Do what you think is right."

It makes perfect sense.

[Anarties]

More like "Hey Tenno, I'm your guide in a world you are just returning to and barely understand. Both sides have good and bad points, and I can't make the moral decision for you. Do what you think is right."

It makes perfect sense.

Pitting your precious space ninjas against each other does not sound like perfect sense at all.

[CutterSlade]

it make sense fine. we got greener this time. both greener and corpus have 1 location each where you could find the development of that gun. if you have no idea where it is, it is like looking for needle in a haystack. but when the greener got the pistols to give out as reward. they gave clues for where that info on how to make those handgun exsist, bam she can steal the info then make a bp for it to give to rest of the teenos

Edited November 5, 2013 by CutterSlade

[Morgax]

just be patient it will released eventually, i too want detron, brakk is still a good gun.

[Anarties]

just be patient it will released eventually, i too want detron, brakk is still a good gun.

We wont see it for 7 months I promise you.

[theasl]

This doesn't really make sense, because if she can make blueprints of the Grineer weapon why is that not doable with the Corpus one? Is the idea that the weapon is simply unobtainable because it doesn't reach Tenno possession and the Brakk does so it's able to be replicated? Because I recall there being this statement:

• You did not support them: A BRAKK blueprint stolen from a Grineer datacenter.

So did the Lotus create the blueprints or were they stolen? These two statements seem to conflict, and if the statement about them being stolen is true it's perfectly reasonable to imagine that they could have been stolen from the Corpus due to their losses and possible hasty retreat from their facilities.

DE is really inconsistent with their lore, so you have to look at this from a different standpoint: the design standpoint, which is what is addressed below.

 

>  At a Design standpoint, this would have split the player-base for what gear they could get.

It *was* split already, I don't follow the logic but not a big deal I guess. Actually, this really doesn't seem logical.

You're thinking the wrong phase - she's talking about after the event, when the weapons are distributed - one set of players would have Grineer while the other would have Corpus. See below (again) for why this would be bad.

 

>  The Grineer victors would be asking in a few weeks ‘how will we get that Corpus gun?’

While Corpus losers are asking why they don't get the Corpus gun. Again, I don't follow the logic.

She's talking about the case where the Grineer supporters wouldn't ever be able to get the Corpus gun, and the Corpus supporters wouldn't ever be able to get the Grineer gun, unless they released both in some way later, which is much more logistically difficult than just one as they're doing now. So DE took the most efficient route: we get one now, and they release the other to obtain later.

Edited November 5, 2013 by theasl

[Acos]

Pitting your precious space ninjas against each other does not sound like perfect sense at all.

How often did you fight Tenno in your event? 

Actually, it makes a lot of sense from a "balance" perspective; neither side could really be allowed to win or lose, as the costs for either side winning or losing would be detrimental to the universe and the Tenno. Mostly the Tenno. So Lotus decided to let the Tenno decide how to fight which resulted in a weakening of both forces rather than leaving one in total control of the solar system. The Grineer may have won the war "more than" the Corpus, but they didn't really win it ENOUGH to get anywhere.

They certainly didn't wipe out the Corpus enough that they could do something crazy like, for example, turn their army and resources at us, which is precisely what I imagine would happen if they did get that large of a foot-hold as we are the next most obvious threat to them. As powerful as a single Tenno is, I don't think we're quite in the position to start having full scale wars with any empires; we tend to work in the shadows for precisely that reason. 

As to the OP; I agree that there is a contradiction here. It would have made more sense to me if you you acquired the blueprint from the team you fought the most for, as it would have made sense to me that you would have happened upon it while you were defending that enemy faction. I think it's probably just a case of the lore bending to fit the intended gameplay mechanics, which isn't always elegant. 

Edited November 5, 2013 by Acos

[Anarties]

How often did you fight Tenno in your event? 

Actually, it makes a lot of sense from a "balance" perspective; neither side could really be allowed to win or lose, as the costs for either side winning or losing would be detrimental to the universe and the Tenno. Mostly the Tenno. So Lotus decided to let the Tenno decide how to fight which resulted in a weakening of both forces rather than leaving one in total control of the solar system. The Grineer may have won the war "more than" the Corpus, but they didn't really win it ENOUGH to get anywhere. 

As to the OP; I agree that there is a contradiction here. It would have made more sense to me if you you acquired the blueprint from the team you fought the most for, as it would have made sense to me that you would have happened upon it while you were defending that enemy faction. I think it's probably just a case of the lore bending to fit the intended gameplay mechanics, which isn't always elegant. 

You cannot fight other Tenno because this game is not PvP oriented so don't bring that worthless argument into this. If this were an actual scenario this would be the case.

 

Balance? This event did nothing but shift the balance. How did that in any sense retain it?

[Andaeros]

just be patient it will released eventually, i too want detron, brakk is still a good gun.

 

My point isn't to have a veiled attempt at pushing for that thing to be released, that was just one of the things I mentioned. Players are asking why they don't get "x" regardless.

 

We wont see it for 7 months I promise you.

 

I doubt it will be that long, but perhaps. There will be other interesting things to come along anyway.

 

We we're rewarded the Brakk.

Lotus reverse engineered it.

We didn't get S#&$ from the corpus.

 

It doesn't say that, in fact it says they're stolen.

 

The entire event was stupid "lore" wise to begin with.

 

Lotus: OMG TENNO, I'LL LET YOU PICK ONE OF THE BAD GUYS AND POTENTIALLY PIT YOU AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.

AS A LEADER I AM GOING TO NOT LEAD YOU.

 

This event was just a total mess and no amount of lore would ever let this make sense.

 

To say no amount of lore would let it make sense doesn't make sense as well. "Lore" isn't a simple resource to be added in a certain quantity, it entirely has to do with the content of it. Players like choice, choice was given. Repercussions were bad, event was handled bad, although the storyline outcome seems to be taking place with really no regard to what just happened. Not going to say it was a total mess as it added some lore and got people talking about it, when that didn't exist to a large extent prior, at least not coming from much officially-existing lore because not much was there. 

[Andaeros]

DE is really inconsistent with their lore, so you have to look at this from a different standpoint: the design standpoint, which is what is addressed below.

 

You're thinking the wrong phase - she's talking about after the event, when the weapons are distributed - one set of players would have Grineer while the other would have Corpus. See below (again) for why this would be bad.

 

She's talking about the case where the Grineer supporters wouldn't ever be able to get the Corpus gun, and the Corpus supporters wouldn't ever be able to get the Grineer gun, unless they released both in some way later, which is much more logistically difficult than just one as they're doing now. So DE took the most efficient route: we get one now, and they release the other to obtain later.

I can't speak for the Grineer supporters as I was not one, but I imagine that there are some who are asking where the Corpus one is. That question has been answered, and from a design standpoint as I said it made sense to have something to roll out later. I'm not upset anymore about not getting my faction's stuff, just confused that it would be stated that they fixed the problem of players wanting the other item by... Not giving the other item. I don't understand that part.

 

I haven't experienced inconsistencies I can think of currently for DE's lore, assuming you're only speaking about Warframe. Coming at this with the perspective of being surprised at there being an inconsistency, because formerly in my memory it is just that there isn't much storyline to explain things, rather than a lot of storyline with a lot of plot holes(that comes later, maybe, hopefully not).

[SilentCynic]

Since when did Warframe Lore make sense?

 

Since when has Warframe had lore with more depth than a parking lot puddle?

[theasl]

I can't speak for the Grineer supporters as I was not one, but I imagine that there are some who are asking where the Corpus one is. That question has been answered, and from a design standpoint as I said it made sense to have something to roll out later. I'm not upset anymore about not getting my faction's stuff, just confused that it would be stated that they fixed the problem of players wanting the other item by... Not giving the other item. I don't understand that part.

I was a Corpus supporter too, so I don't know either. The thing is, I'm pretty sure they had a method of getting Detron or Brakk planned out that would have made releasing both at once a less viable solution. Without knowing what they have planned in that regard, we can't really make a judgment call on what they decided to do. It's somewhat hard, but I'm going to trust the dev team on this one.

I haven't experienced inconsistencies I can think of currently for DE's lore, assuming you're only speaking about Warframe. Coming at this with the perspective of being surprised at there being an inconsistency, because formerly in my memory it is just that there isn't much storyline to explain things, rather than a lot of storyline with a lot of plot holes(that comes later, maybe, hopefully not).

Yeah, I'm addressing Warframe specifically. I didn't play Dark Sector or any other DE game before. They haven't been particularly consistent when there even is any here, but you know, they're only human. Edited November 5, 2013 by theasl

[Anarties]

Since when has Warframe had lore with more depth than a parking lot puddle?

I like you.

[Acos]

You cannot fight other Tenno because this game is not PvP oriented so don't bring that worthless argument into this. If this were an actual scenario this would be the case.

 

Balance? This event did nothing but shift the balance. How did that in any sense retain it?

The shift in balance was going to occur more dramatically if we had done nothing. By fighting for both sides, against both sides, we ensure that neither side gets a foothold. I know you're busy dismissing my rational as "worthless", but do at least attempt to read it first. 

Tenno\ did not fight each other specifically because Tenno do not fight each other. Even the PVP we do have is depicted as combat training, rather than a duel to the death. 

[BETAOPTICS]

Yeah it doesn't make sense in a lore standpoint, actually it invalidates all the weapons in the past and future as well. If she can make that then she might as well be able to do it with all of the weapons from past and future. That being said, it is because of gameplay design and because of that, it makes sort of sense they made it like this. After all, that standpoint overwrites all the others.

[BETAOPTICS]

We wont see it for 7 months I promise you.

Could be, then again we saw one of DE employee teasing us with it at the other day so it could also mean that it is coming soon anyways. I'd be more than happy if it were so, even if I supported the dogs of Grineer.

[Phoenix86]

From what i've understood is:

 

Grineers are victorious and gave to some of us a full potatoed Brakk...

than Lotus got the weapons from Tennos who sided with Grineers and made BPs for the other Tennos who sided with Corpus

and didnt get payed nor by Grineer (because they fought against them) nor by Corpus (because they lost)

but are still Tennos and so Lotus wanted to help them too

 

Isnt that clear? We, Tennos, are all by the same side so as long as 1 single Tenno received something by either Grineer or Corpus he would share what he got with Lotus and Lotus shared it with all the other Tennos thanks to Reverse-Engineering

 

;)

Edited November 5, 2013 by Phoenix86

[Jandor]

Does anyone else think the term 'Tennos' sounds weird?

[Andaeros]

I was a Corpus supporter too, so I don't know either. The thing is, I'm pretty sure they had a method of getting Detron or Brakk planned out that would have made releasing both at once a less viable solution. Without knowing what they have planned in that regard, we can't really make a judgment call on what they decided to do. It's somewhat hard, but I'm going to trust the dev team on this one.

 

I agree that they had this planned; I have mentioned in previous posts that I figured this whole thing was planned out a fair bit prior to the event commencing. It fell to lack of foresight however in certain features, such as the fissure between players in clans, leading to a high frequency of people being removed and having sore feelings. I'm not making a judgement call on this, or at least I'm not intending to, but this whole thing seems pretty murky is all.

 

Yeah, I'm addressing Warframe specifically. I didn't play Dark Sector or any other DE game before. They haven't been particularly consistent when there even is any here, but you know, they're only human.

 

It can become pretty dangerous to get too inconsistent with lore, and if it continues it makes the entire process of creating it in the first place pointless because it isn't following existing aspects.