Making Supra And Gorgon Slightly Better

[MECT_HET]

Explain to me how crit mods are somehow more valuable than base damage and elemental mods that the Supra and Gorgon have access to, please.  They can be modded too, you know.

 

Otherwise there's no proof that the Soma has more dps.

Soma's build:

1-2. serration+heavy caliber = +330% base

3. point strike - crit chance

4-5. vital sense+hammer shot = x8.4 crit mult

6. split chamber = x2 overall damage

7. bane = x1.3 overall damabe

8.armor piercing = 60%

 

base (10)*(1+330%)*8.4*2*1.3 = 939 per shot

ap (60%) = 563 per shot

base dps= base (939)*rof(15) = 14085

ap dps = 8445

sustained base dps = base dps*(mag/rof)/(mag/rof+reload time) = 14085*6.7/9.7 = 9728

sustainded ap dps = 5836

 

Supra's build

1-2. serration+heavy caliber = +330% to the base damage

3. split chamber = x2 overall damage

4. bane = x1.3 overall damabe

5. armor piercing = 60%

due to no crit in supra, let's raise it's dps via increasing it's rof

6-7. speed trigger+shred = +90% rof

 

 

base (35)*(1+330%)*2*1.3 = 391 per shot

ap (60%) = 234 per shot

base dps= base (391)*rof(23.75) = 9286

ap dps = 5571

sustained base dps = base dps*(mag/rof)/(mag/rof+reload time) = 9286*3.7/7.9 = 4349

sustainded ap dps = 2609

 

pfff...too bad. Let's add some elemental to be on par:

8. cryo round = +90% ice damage

ice damage per shot = 351

ice dps = 8357

sustained ice dps = 3914

 

Comparing again:

                                       Soma    Supra

overall dps:                    22530    18771

sutained overall dps:     15564    10872

 

And this is btw calculated for an Ideal World where Supra hits the targer in 100% of shooting, i mean, i was ignoring it's awful accuracy becoming even more awful using heavy caliberX

 

EDIT: the most interesting part is AP part because all elementals and base damage will be absorbed by mob's armor, so in the end we've got 8445 Soma's ap dps against 5571 Supra's ap dps. So this gun is totally not worth to pick on endgame match.

 

Need more calculations?

Edited November 18, 2013 by MECT_HET

[Wolfstorm18]

Need more calculations?

 

 

You closed the topic.

[KittyDarkling]

Need more calculations?

 

    Thank you, Thank you, and Thank you!!!!! you saved me the trouble of having to do that math xD so many +1s to you

[nekrojiji]

Explain to me how crit mods are somehow more valuable than base damage and elemental mods that the Supra and Gorgon have access to, please.  They can be modded too, you know.

 

Otherwise there's no proof that the Soma has more dps.

 

Let's say for the 3 mod slots used by Soma for Critical Damage augmentation you use the elemental mods that give the best DPS. (Hellfire, Stormbringer and Cryo Rounds) you have 24(base) + 22 (24*0.9 Hellfire) + 22 (Stormbringer) + 22 (Cryo Rounds) you get 90 per shot but in 3 damages. With Soma you have 84 in one damage, you would say Soma is worse.

 

The nice part starts now:

 

The other elemental mod, and the most important in late game, Piercing Hit, is only 14 (22*0.6) per round, for Gorgon.

Let's see what Piercing Hit does for Soma: 84 * 0.6 = 50 per round. (I have never seen a white damages with 87.5 crit chance on Soma)

 

More, if you install Serration, Split Chamber and enough Heavy Caliber to not throw your bullets like a shotgun, along with the 3 for crit and 1 for AP you will still be able to install another elemental mod.

 

Now you do the math and tell me ....wich one is better at DPS?  Soma or Gorgon?!

Edited November 18, 2013 by nekrojiji

[Nagisawa]

Soma's build:

1-2. serration+heavy caliber = +330% base

3. point strike - crit chance

4-5. vital sense+hammer shot = x8.4 crit mult

6. split chamber = x2 overall damage

7. bane = x1.3 overall damabe

8.armor piercing = 60%

 

base (10)*(1+330%)*8.4*2*1.3 = 939 per shot

ap (60%) = 563 per shot

base dps= base (939)*rof(15) = 14085

ap dps = 8445

sustained base dps = base dps*(mag/rof)/(mag/rof+reload time) = 14085*6.7/9.7 = 9728

sustainded ap dps = 5836

 

Supra's build

1-2. serration+heavy caliber = +330% to the base damage

3. split chamber = x2 overall damage

4. bane = x1.3 overall damabe

5. armor piercing = 60%

due to no crit in supra, let's raise it's dps via increasing it's rof

6-7. speed trigger+shred = +90% rof

 

 

base (35)*(1+330%)*2*1.3 = 391 per shot

ap (60%) = 234 per shot

base dps= base (391)*rof(23.75) = 9286

ap dps = 5571

sustained base dps = base dps*(mag/rof)/(mag/rof+reload time) = 9286*3.7/7.9 = 4349

sustainded ap dps = 2609

 

pfff...too bad. Let's add some elemental to be on par:

8. cryo round = +90% ice damage

ice damage per shot = 351

ice dps = 8357

sustained ice dps = 3914

 

Comparing again:

                                       Soma    Supra

overall dps:                    22530    18771

sutained overall dps:     15564    10872

 

And this is btw calculated for an Ideal World where Supra hits the targer in 100% of shooting, i mean, i was ignoring it's awful accuracy becoming even more awful using heavy caliberX

 

EDIT: the most interesting part is AP part because all elementals and base damage will be absorbed by mob's armor, so in the end we've got 8445 Soma's ap dps against 5571 Supra's ap dps. So this gun is totally not worth to pick on endgame match.

 

Need more calculations?

Actually, yes.  How does the Gorgon fit into this, if you would please.  I would like to see the numbers on it.

[NikolaiLev]

snip

 

There are problems with your mod selections.  What about more elemental damage, especially Wildfire in place of Shred?  And for that matter, you're forgetting about fringe benefits like the puncture you get from Shred.

 

I'm not going to bother pruning through your math to make sure it's correct.  I'd concede to you that the Soma is the better lategame option.  That might be problematic, but that just means the Soma's crit chance should be toned down, or so.

 

Thing is, the Supra is undeniably the better early game and mid game option, because it stacks far better with flat and elemental damages.  Even with maxed Vital Sense and Point Strike (which take 18 mod slots) you won't out DPS a Supra with maxed serration.

Edited November 18, 2013 by NikolaiLev

[Azira]

I did some calculations of my own, with slightly different mods, and yeah, the Soma does get some better damage lategame, though it has a lower ammo economy, which for bullet-hose weapons can be a big deal since there's no room for ammo mutators in these builds. It is worth stating though that the better damage per bullet means that in the mid game, Supra will be dealing excellent damage still because elemental damage hasn't fallen off yet, and will be getting multipliers that the Soma won't. The average player isn't going to have to worry about the true endgame potential of each weapon, though, because the drain costs of these weapons is going to require a potato and a fair bit of forma, which means tons of releveling equipment. In the end I say that the Supra doesn't really need a buff as much as gorgon does. Soma might need some slight nerfing, too. I still wouldn't worry about the power level of Supra though. It's easily strong enough to compete for quite a large range of levels. Unfortunately, the gorgon is a straight downgrade from supra and soma though, and that seems a little power-creep-ish.

[MECT_HET]

 

Actually, yes.  How does the Gorgon fit into this, if you would please.  I would like to see the numbers on it.

not a big deal.

 

overall dps: 12871

ap dps: 7722

overall sustained dps: 7455

 

There are problems with your mod selections.  What about more elemental damage, especially Wildfire in place of Shred?  And for that matter, you're forgetting about fringe benefits like the puncture you get from Shred.

 

I'm not going to bother pruning through your math to make sure it's correct.  I'd concede to you that the Soma is the better lategame option.  That might be problematic, but that just means the Soma's crit chance should be toned down, or so.

 

Thing is, the Supra is undeniably the better early game and mid game option, because it stacks far better with flat and elemental damages.  Even with maxed Vital Sense and Point Strike (which take 18 mod slots) you won't out DPS a Supra with maxed serration.

There is NO a single problem in my mod selection.

 

I'd suggest you to spent more time in game than in forum playing at least aginst 60+ mooks to see what will happen with all your elemental damage. And no, I do NOT suggest to nerf soma's crit chance because it'll make this weapon totally useless. 

 

This is SUPRA is CLAN TECH and you should spent waaaay more resources on crafting it than a regular shopped Soma. It designer for an endgame, not an early game (I think looking for it's cost and rank reqs should give you some idea). And if someone is believing that Supra is "better early game" - things are just go wrong. 

 

And once again - Soma's outdamaging Supra no matter of initial setup. Replace initial pure damage setup i've made viable on the endgame with all these crappy elementals and compare again. Supra is no match and never will be compared with Soma, unless it'll get some major buffs.

 

I just do no believe that someone who hold both guns in his hands is continuing talking the same bs again. Maybe you'll stop arguing with you theoretical speculations and do some real infield tests?

[NikolaiLev]

 

 

I just do no believe that someone who hold both guns in his hands is continuing talking the same bs again. Maybe you'll stop arguing with you theoretical speculations and do some real infield tests?

 

 

According to the wiki, the Supra has a base damage of 10, a rate of fire of 15 rounds per second, 35% crit chance and 300% crit damage.  The Supra has a base damage of 35, a fire rate of 12.5, a crit chance of 2.5% and 150% crit damage.

 

Now then.  To determine a weapon's average damage per shot when accounting for crit, you use the following formula:

 

averageDamage = baseDamage * ((critChance * ((critDamage/100) - 1))) + 1)

 

Therefore, a Soma has an average damage of 17.  Multiply that by its fire rate (15) and you get its DPS: 255.

 

The Supra?  Forget about the insubstantial crit; let's just do its damage and fire rate.  35 * 12.5 = 437.5.

 

Still think the Supra's too weak?

[nekrojiji]

According to the wiki, the Supra has a base damage of 10, a rate of fire of 15 rounds per second, 35% crit chance and 300% crit damage.  The Supra has a base damage of 35, a fire rate of 12.5, a crit chance of 2.5% and 150% crit damage.

 

Now then.  To determine a weapon's average damage per shot when accounting for crit, you use the following formula:

 

averageDamage = baseDamage * ((critChance * ((critDamage/100) - 1))) + 1)

 

Therefore, a Soma has an average damage of 17.  Multiply that by its fire rate (15) and you get its DPS: 255.

 

The Supra?  Forget about the insubstantial crit; let's just do its damage and fire rate.  35 * 12.5 = 437.5.

 

Still think the Supra's too weak?

 

You people are either stupid or you want Soma to be "The Best Weapon In The Game". I hope it's the second.

 

Soma can reach an actual 100% critical chance (yes 87.5% acts like 100% I tested this in the game). So NOT calculating Soma with critical chance is just.... well I said this in the first sentence. 

 

People should stop saying that soma has 10 base damge and 35% critical chance because with 3 mods you get it to 84 base damage. No other weapon can have it's damage increased ~9 times without using serration or heavy caliber. Even if you use seration and heavy caliber at max rank you don't get a 740% damage increase. (330% serration + heavy caliber and another 90% from heallfire, stormbringer or cryo rounds so in total you have a 420% damage increase, but after the 3 critical mods, Soma can have serration, heavy caliber and elemental mods wich are actualy increased by the critical bonus)

Edited November 19, 2013 by nekrojiji

[fatpig84]

Soma is ftw dawg.

Supra is a boon doggle from the start.

[Dark5eiD]

flight speed is all that needs to change with supra orelse its OP. if it had no recoil and increased flight speed over the dera, then you have just made a flux rifle that has no range limit which is insane. not sure why but i love my supra. forma 3 times with stabilizer and i am happy other than flight speed.

[NikolaiLev]

You people are either stupid or you want Soma to be "The Best Weapon In The Game". I hope it's the second.

 

Soma can reach an actual 100% critical chance (yes 87.5% acts like 100% I tested this in the game). So NOT calculating Soma with critical chance is just.... well I said this in the first sentence. 

 

People should stop saying that soma has 10 base damge and 35% critical chance because with 3 mods you get it to 84 base damage. No other weapon can have it's damage increased ~9 times without using serration or heavy caliber. Even if you use seration and heavy caliber at max rank you don't get a 740% damage increase. (330% serration + heavy caliber and another 90% from heallfire, stormbringer or cryo rounds so in total you have a 420% damage increase, but after the 3 critical mods, Soma can have serration, heavy caliber and elemental mods wich are actualy increased by the critical bonus)

 

That math just doesn't add up.  And 87.5% does not equal 100%.  Anecdotal evidence has no credibility here.

 

How do 3 mods allow the Soma to get to 84 base damage?

[Antonie_Van_Leeuwenhoek]

Math does add up, and pointstrike+ Vitalsense+ Hammershot really does give soma x8.4 multiplier.

[MECT_HET]

That math just doesn't add up.  And 87.5% does not equal 100%.  Anecdotal evidence has no credibility here.

 

How do 3 mods allow the Soma to get to 84 base damage?

87.5% is ALMOST equal 100%. You'll got 12.5% to proc a regular shot so this is something you can forget about.

 

10*300%*(1+vital sense(120%)+hammer shot (60%)) = 10*300%*2.8 = 10*840%@87.5% chance or 84 base damage

 

According to the wiki, the Supra has a base damage of 10, a rate of fire of 15 rounds per second, 35% crit chance and 300% crit damage.  The Supra has a base damage of 35, a fire rate of 12.5, a crit chance of 2.5% and 150% crit damage.

 

Now then.  To determine a weapon's average damage per shot when accounting for crit, you use the following formula:

 

averageDamage = baseDamage * ((critChance * ((critDamage/100) - 1))) + 1)

 

Therefore, a Soma has an average damage of 17.  Multiply that by its fire rate (15) and you get its DPS: 255.

 

The Supra?  Forget about the insubstantial crit; let's just do its damage and fire rate.  35 * 12.5 = 437.5.

 

Still think the Supra's too weak?

You're either noob never owned any of these weapons or you're just trying to troll people up.

 

Stop comparing base damage. Just stop. This is not working that way. Grow up already. Make some infield test. Of course if you HAVE got a Supra and Soma.

 

Supra is no match on soma. 

 

using your own stupid formula

 

Soma's averageDamage = 10*((0.875*((840/100)-1)))+1) = 74.75 right after installing point strike, vital sense and hammer shot

 

so Soma's dps will be = 74.75*15 = 1125 without installing serration.

 

Supra's averageDamage = 35*((0.0625((420/100)-1)))+1) = 42

 

Supra's dps = 42*12.5 = 525

 

Yes, Supra IS too weak.

[NikolaiLev]

87.5% is ALMOST equal 100%. You'll got 12.5% to proc a regular shot so this is something you can forget about.

 

10*300%*(1+vital sense(120%)+hammer shot (60%)) = 10*300%*2.8 = 10*840%@87.5% chance or 84 base damage

 

You're either noob never owned any of these weapons or you're just trying to troll people up.

 

Stop comparing base damage. Just stop. This is not working that way. Grow up already. Make some infield test. Of course if you HAVE got a Supra and Soma.

 

Supra is no match on soma. 

 

using your own stupid formula

 

Soma's averageDamage = 10*((0.875*((840/100)-1)))+1) = 74.75 right after installing point strike, vital sense and hammer shot

 

so Soma's dps will be = 74.75*15 = 1125 without installing serration.

 

Supra's averageDamage = 35*((0.0625((420/100)-1)))+1) = 42

 

Supra's dps = 42*12.5 = 525

 

Yes, Supra IS too weak.

 

 

At this point, you're just attacking me instead of my argument.  Another case of ad hominem.  The only time you attempted to strike at my argument was your spoiler, which was comparing the damage of the soma and supra with the same mods.

 

Critical mods are going to suck with the Supra.  Duh.  It has poor crit chance.  But it has excellent base damage.

 

So, with the Soma, Vital Sense, Point Strike and Hammer shot brings your average damage up to 74.75.  Those three mods take up 27 drain.  This results in 1125 dps.

 

Let's take a more reasonable mod choice for the Supra.  Hmm, how about just Serration.  Maxed serration, at 14 drain, yields 165% base damage.  Without accounting for crit (because the Supra has pitiful crit anyway) 35 * 2.65 = 92.75 damage.  As for its dps, 92.75 * 12.5 = 1159.375.

 

And that's only with 14 drain.  Where the Soma had to use 27 drain and didn't even get the same amount of damage out of it.  The Soma will be getting the benefit of a stun, due to Hammer Shot, but uh... yeah.

 

I rest my case.

Edited November 20, 2013 by NikolaiLev

[KittyDarkling]

    The sad bit being the Soma's painfully easy to build when compared to the Supra... I didn't even need to try to farm :/    

 Meanwhile the Supra merely asks you to build/join a clan, research several prereques before having the right to RESEARCH the blueprint for the Supra. THEN you need to build several Felderons which cost a heap of time and credits to make... Not to mention plastids -_-; THEN you need even MORE resources to put all this expensive S#&$ together to make... are you ready?

 

    "A Mid-game weapon"

 

So... DAYS of work, RESOURCES, AND CREDITS or just pick up the Soma for basically nothing from the shops. It's prepolarized... TWICE and scales into late game.....

 

 

The Soma needs to have a hefty increase in build requirements, and the Supra needs a hefty buff. Gorgan too considering you have to be "lucky" to get it now.

[NikolaiLev]

    The sad bit being the Soma's painfully easy to build when compared to the Supra... I didn't even need to try to farm :/    

 Meanwhile the Supra merely asks you to build/join a clan, research several prereques before having the right to RESEARCH the blueprint for the Supra. THEN you need to build several Felderons which cost a heap of time and credits to make... Not to mention plastids -_-; THEN you need even MORE resources to put all this expensive S#&$ together to make... are you ready?

 

    "A Mid-game weapon"

 

So... DAYS of work, RESOURCES, AND CREDITS or just pick up the Soma for basically nothing from the shops. It's prepolarized... TWICE and scales into late game.....

 

 

The Soma needs to have a hefty increase in build requirements, and the Supra needs a hefty buff. Gorgan too considering you have to be "lucky" to get it now.

 

Or just, you know, make research weapons not grindy as hell to get.  Again, we could just give the Soma a tiny nerf to its crit (250% crit damage instead of 300, or so) so it scales into late game as well as the Supra.

 

And remember, even fully maxed out, the Soma is only slightly better.  It won't cost you the game.

 

I don't feel that a given weapon's power should be determined by how hard it was to get.  It should certainly be an interesting weapon, but I feel that ideally, all weapons should be sidegrades of each other.  The Braton shouldn't be an invalid choice just because you have the time and research to make the Dera (and it isn't; the Dera has downsides too).

[MECT_HET]

At this point, you're just attacking me instead of my argument.  Another case of ad hominem.  The only time you attempted to strike at my argument was your spoiler, which was comparing the damage of the soma and supra with the same mods.

 

Critical mods are going to suck with the Supra.  Duh.  It has poor crit chance.  But it has excellent base damage.

 

So, with the Soma, Vital Sense, Point Strike and Hammer shot brings your average damage up to 74.75.  Those three mods take up 27 drain.  This results in 1125 dps.

 

Let's take a more reasonable mod choice for the Supra.  Hmm, how about just Serration.  Maxed serration, at 14 drain, yields 165% base damage.  Without accounting for crit (because the Supra has pitiful crit anyway) 35 * 2.65 = 92.75 damage.  As for its dps, 92.75 * 12.5 = 1159.375.

 

And that's only with 14 drain.  Where the Soma had to use 27 drain and didn't even get the same amount of damage out of it.  The Soma will be getting the benefit of a stun, due to Hammer Shot, but uh... yeah.

 

I rest my case.

This discussion doesn't make any sense. Just pick your weapon and test in game. Nothing else to say.

 

No one needs to calculate base, drain or something else. You're going to fight with a blank unmodded weapons - that's your choice. But do not force anyone to do the same.

 

Once again: make the strongest Supra's build and it won't match with a Soma's crit pure damage build.

 

Yeah, and it won't be SLIGHTLY better. I did calculations: 22k dps on Soma against 18k on Supra in case you'll hit 100% of shots. Which is unable to do.

Edited November 20, 2013 by MECT_HET

[NikolaiLev]

This discussion doesn't make any sense. Just pick your weapon and test in game. Nothing else to say.

 

No one needs to calculate base, drain or something else. You're going to fight with a blank unmodded weapons - that's your choice. But do not force anyone to do the same.

 

Once again: make the strongest Supra's build and it won't match with a Soma's crit pure damage build.

 

Where's your proof of that?  Where's your math?  How much stronger will a Soma's pure crit damage build be than the Supra?  10 dps?  100 dps?  1000 dps?

 

Testing weapons in game yields the same results I got when I did the math, just not as precisely.  The discussion is sound.

 

The only thing the Soma needs, if anything, is a small crit damage/chance nerf.  No more than that.  And if it gets that, it needs a small base damage buff to make sure it isn't horribad in the early game (which it already is).

 

I could concede that it's a little odd that the better lategame option is market-buyable as opposed to the research weapon.  But I feel the biggest problem is that the Supra requires seven fieldrons.  That's just absurd.  It should require two, at most.  The requirement of a Forma is hefty enough.  Why does it even cost credits to make it when the Forma costs 35,000 credits alone?

 

I'm all for reducing or even eliminating the grind in Warframe.  But as for weapon balance itself, these weapons are fine.

[KittyDarkling]

Or just, you know, make research weapons not grindy as hell to get.  Again, we could just give the Soma a tiny nerf to its crit (250% crit damage instead of 300, or so) so it scales into late game as well as the Supra.

 

And remember, even fully maxed out, the Soma is only slightly better.  It won't cost you the game.

 

I don't feel that a given weapon's power should be determined by how hard it was to get.  It should certainly be an interesting weapon, but I feel that ideally, all weapons should be sidegrades of each other.  The Braton shouldn't be an invalid choice just because you have the time and research to make the Dera (and it isn't; the Dera has downsides too).

 

    I'm not sure if it was this post or another but, someone suggested a "LMG" mod that at max level had a 40-60% chance to fire a bullet without cost to ammo. So your Firing 40-60% of your bullets for free. This would mean you could lay down fire over an area for extended bursts without burning all of your ammo. It wouldn't be broken as it'd only effect inaccurate slow loading weapons anyway (Gorgan and Supra). Well to be more specific, In the Supra's case you're expected to miss 30% of those shots due to travel time/inaccuracy/recoil. and in the Gorgan's case... well.. low damage output anyway so this would likely bring up it's sustained dps within that of other weapons.. It would certainly make these weapons "shine" in any case.

 

 BULLET HOES!

[NikolaiLev]

    I'm not sure if it was this post or another but, someone suggested a "LMG" mod that at max level had a 40-60% chance to fire a bullet without cost to ammo. So your Firing 40-60% of your bullets for free. This would mean you could lay down fire over an area for extended bursts without burning all of your ammo. It wouldn't be broken as it'd only effect inaccurate slow loading weapons anyway (Gorgan and Supra). Well to be more specific, In the Supra's case you're expected to miss 30% of those shots due to travel time/inaccuracy/recoil. and in the Gorgan's case... well.. low damage output anyway so this would likely bring up it's sustained dps within that of other weapons.. It would certainly make these weapons "shine" in any case.

 

 BULLET HOES!

 

My only question is: why?  The Gorgon and Supra are already up to the level other weapons are at, and frankly, I don't agree with encouraging users to spray and pray with those weapons, because that's not how you use them effectively anyway.  Depending on your range, you generally want to fire them in medium length (5-15 rounds or so) bursts.  You actually have to aim them.

 

The Supra is obviously harder to use.  But that's because it has so much more damage than the Gorgon and Soma (the latter notwithstanding for late game).  But that just means you use it a little closer.  Gap closing isn't exactly hard to do.

[HackShield]

make supra basicly laser =P so it sarrated dmg like flux and where good nothing is stupid like a lasser faser that uses "bullets" ~.~ and gorgon is fine >.> its a base dmg weapon may give it a slight base dmg boost 

[Dark5eiD]

at the end of the day soma and supra are both good weapons. if a player has more time to invest and is going to be playing a crap ton anyway... the resources that are needed to build the supra is part of the fun in playing the game. if your playing a crap ton you will have tons of credits / fieldron samples etc. me personally... i love the supra, with the stabilizer i find it easier to aim and like someone mention you can shoot 15 shoots ( in 1 sec lol ) and kill just about anything. i am having no trouble aiming it but in most cases i have it equipt as a oh S#&$ weapon. if you get surrounded suddenly supra will clear a path / room inless than one clip in almost all cases. obviously the somas accuracy is better and it can be moded to tear S#&$ up. in a perfect world the soma should have crit dialed back and supra should have flight speed increased as it is alot harder to obtain. i also agree the supra should be laser and i am not really sure why it isnt.

[NikolaiLev]

at the end of the day soma and supra are both good weapons. if a player has more time to invest and is going to be playing a crap ton anyway... the resources that are needed to build the supra is part of the fun in playing the game. if your playing a crap ton you will have tons of credits / fieldron samples etc. me personally... i love the supra, with the stabilizer i find it easier to aim and like someone mention you can shoot 15 shoots ( in 1 sec lol ) and kill just about anything. i am having no trouble aiming it but in most cases i have it equipt as a oh S#&$ weapon. if you get surrounded suddenly supra will clear a path / room inless than one clip in almost all cases. obviously the somas accuracy is better and it can be moded to tear S#&$ up. in a perfect world the soma should have crit dialed back and supra should have flight speed increased as it is alot harder to obtain. i also agree the supra should be laser and i am not really sure why it isnt.

 

You find grinding up the resources for research weapons fun?  That's boggling.  I find the game fun despite its horrific grind, not because of it.

 

Guess there really are people who like grind.

 

I'd rather the Soma get a very gentle crit nerf and the Supra get tuned back to 2 fieldrons (with a similar treatment being given to all research weapons).

Edited November 20, 2013 by NikolaiLev