Hek, The Dethroned King.

[Cwierz]

Now I understand DE, that the strun wraith is an event weapon so it SHOULD be very powerful. The main complaint here is that NOBODY wants any other shotgun to be up to par with their "exclusive" weapon. 

I remember the pre-nerf hek. That thing was a monster, for different reasons then the strun wraith. It had effective ranged combat at the expense of clip size, and was still viable at close range. I (and others too) would like to see some of its power returned, in the way of decreasing damage falloff to compensate for the general superiority or the sobek and strun wraith. Also, a clip size boost to 6 would be nice, so that it can house 8 with a fully upgraded ammo stock, or a decrease in reload time, so that tactical pump makes a difference.

[Temporary]

Damage 2.0 and the release of the new Tenno shotgun should change where this sits when they're eventually brought out.

[Seanjuju]

Hek is mastery 4. Maybe it should be lower. It doesn't need a buff. Maybe we should have a rank 6 shotgun.

[taiiat]

strun wraith is an event weapon so it SHOULD be very powerful.

nope. there's no reason why an exclusive weapon needs to blow every other weapon out of the water. a difference between Braton and Braton Prime, is plenty for an exclusive weapon. a slight increase, to make it favorable for those that have it. that's all an exclusive reward 'needs'. honestly, it only needs to have identical stats to it's original counterpart, there's no need for it to be superior.

 

Tenno only want every new thing to be superior because they want the game to be super easy. then complain it's super easy. then complain enemies got more difficult to combat all the new stuff making the game super easy. then complain they need new stuff to make the game super easy.

 

see the circle of dumb? i do. nothing changes, it just goes in circles, and wastes immense amounts of Development Time. and everyone hates every stage of that circle, so it's best to just not have the circle. 

 

on topic:

increasing the shells Hek can hold would make no sense. 4 tubes, 4 shells. that makes sense. 

honestly, Hek should reload quickly, but reload shell by shell. so you can quickly keep moving shells through the gun and hitting enemies, but a few seconds of down time would give you the opportunity to reload all 4 tubes for more effective burst damage. 

Edited November 11, 2013 by taiiat

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

Hek died long time ago since DE added damage drop-off for shotguns.

[Seanjuju]

@taiiat Exclusive weapons don't need to be more powerful than every other weapon in its family but its needs to be an alternative to weapons useful around at least lvl 70 to prevent them from being immediately being thrown in the trash.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Seanjuju

[Cwierz]

nope. there's no reason why an exclusive weapon needs to blow every other weapon out of the water. a difference between Braton and Braton Prime, is plenty for an exclusive weapon. a slight increase, to make it favorable for those that have it. that's all an exclusive reward 'needs'. honestly, it only needs to have identical stats to it's original counterpart, there's no need for it to be superior.

 

Tenno only want every new thing to be superior because they want the game to be super easy. then complain it's super easy. then complain enemies got more difficult to combat all the new stuff making the game super easy. then complain they need new stuff to make the game super easy.

 

see the circle of dumb? i do. nothing changes, it just goes in circles, and wastes immense amounts of Development Time. and everyone hates every stage of that circle, so it's best to just not have the circle. 

 

on topic:

increasing the shells Hek can hold would make no sense. 4 tubes, 4 shells. that makes sense. 

honestly, Hek should reload quickly, but reload shell by shell. so you can quickly keep moving shells through the gun and hitting enemies, but a few seconds of down time would give you the opportunity to reload all 4 tubes for more effective burst damage. 

Valid points, I agree. However, it doesn't fire each shell from one tube. Each tube fires one bullet, its magazine is actually the weird cylindrical shaped thing on the right side. I just want this back because I miss the old playstyle the hek had, and unlike others that powercreep this is an actual alternate (ex. Strun vs Braton vs Latron)

[nintega]

I agree, the Hek does deserve some type of buff. It was the best shotgun before the Strun Wraith, though the Sobek was on an equal level to it, in terms of sustained damage. Make the Hek a strong, long ranged shotgun. Also, buff its damage. Hell, make it higher than the Strun Wraith's, since with the criticals the Strun Wraith has, it'll blow the Hek out of the water regardless.

 

Give Hek 200 damage per shell, remove the damage drop-off, and give away a skin for 1 credit that makes it look like a Wraith weapon. Okay, that's just messing around.

 

But compared to other weapon types, the shotguns are few enough that it would be really easy to give each one its own niche. Sobek could be a constant, steady stream of shotgun DPS, Strun Wraith can remain the monster it is, and Hek can be a long ranged cannon, like it used to be a long time ago.

[CY13ERPUNK]

Damage 2.0 and the release of the new Tenno shotgun should change where this sits when they're eventually brought out.

[Xoxile]

Shotgun? Long range? Yeah let's just throw out every sniper weapon. Who needs specialization. Let's just have one weapon that does it all.

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

Hek having more than 4 shots as a base doesn't make much sense. it's a quad-barrel shotgun. It SHOULD hold 4 shots in the chamber as a base.

[SquirmyBurrito]

nope. there's no reason why an exclusive weapon needs to blow every other weapon out of the water. a difference between Braton and Braton Prime, is plenty for an exclusive weapon. a slight increase, to make it favorable for those that have it. that's all an exclusive reward 'needs'. honestly, it only needs to have identical stats to it's original counterpart, there's no need for it to be superior.

 

Tenno only want every new thing to be superior because they want the game to be super easy. then complain it's super easy. then complain enemies got more difficult to combat all the new stuff making the game super easy. then complain they need new stuff to make the game super easy.

 

see the circle of dumb? i do. nothing changes, it just goes in circles, and wastes immense amounts of Development Time. and everyone hates every stage of that circle, so it's best to just not have the circle. 

 

on topic:

increasing the shells Hek can hold would make no sense. 4 tubes, 4 shells. that makes sense. 

honestly, Hek should reload quickly, but reload shell by shell. so you can quickly keep moving shells through the gun and hitting enemies, but a few seconds of down time would give you the opportunity to reload all 4 tubes for more effective burst damage. 

 

I want my exclusives to be powerful to make the effort obtaining them worthwhile AND to give me a reason not to just sell it for the slot. I'm not saying they have to be the best in their class, but if they aren't somewhere up on the list I see no reason for it to sit in my inventory any longer than it takes me to level it to 30. Not everyone wants the game to be easy, there are valid reasons for wanting powerful exclusives that don't reside in a desire to cheese the game.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Shotgun? Long range? Yeah let's just throw out every sniper weapon. Who needs specialization. Let's just have one weapon that does it all.

 

Shotguns IRL have pretty good range. It's video game logic that gimps their range.

[Cursor]

Just to throw this out there, but Brakk embarrasses every single shotgun in the game.  So like...yeah.  That's a thing. (okay, arguable not the wraith, but only arguably)

Edited November 11, 2013 by Cursor

[SquirmyBurrito]

Just to throw this out there, but Brakk embarrasses every single shotgun in the game.  So like...yeah.  That's a thing. (okay, arguable not the wraith, but only arguably)

 

...is this going to turn into a 'Nerf the Brakk' thread? Is so I'm leaving.

[Xoxile]

Shotguns IRL have pretty good range. It's video game logic that gimps their range.

Oh it's a real life simulator now? Guess we should be pushing to get Tenno, warframes, Corpus, Grineer, and The Infested removed from the game while we are at it.

It's a game. Good games have choices, and consequences for your choices. If you choose to have a weapon superior in close range combat then the consequence should be it is not as good in long range combat compared to weapons that are specialized for it.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Xoxile

[Cursor]

...is this going to turn into a 'Nerf the Brakk' thread? Is so I'm leaving.

 

Not trying to say that, just that the bar is shifting, and Hek isn't the only shotgun falling behind.  I'm fine with new powerful weapons, but not at the expense of old ones.  I want buffs, not nerfs.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Oh it's a real life simulator now? Guess we should be pushing to get Tenno, warframes, Corpus, Grineer, and The Infested removed from the game while we are at it.

It's a game. Good games have choices, and consequences for your choices. If you choose to have a weapon superior in close range combat then the consequence should be it is not as good in long range combat compared to weapons that are specialized for it.

 

Yeah because it has to be one or the other, amirite? No. A game can give weapons more realistic range without going full simulator. A shotgun (even in games where it is given longer range) won't be as good as a sniper rifle at that range. Because pellet spread exists and video games usually ignore just how absurd it is for a shotgun to have a meter wide spread two feet out the barrel. If you don't like what I say and wish to give a rebuttal do so properly. Don't just exaggerate my stance and debunk that (strawman). It makes it difficult for me to take you seriously.

[ValhaHazred]

I'm fine with the damage falloff. At least it isn't at the Halo melee-weapon-that-goes-bang level.

From the sound of things the Corpus Flak shotgun will lose it's falloff when charged, so that could be neat!

[taiiat]

Valid points, I agree. However, it doesn't fire each shell from one tube. Each tube fires one bullet, its magazine is actually the weird cylindrical shaped thing on the right side.

uh. wut?

Hek  has 4 barrels, and fires 7 pellets. mfw i try to understand how four tubes firing one pellet, equals 7. 

 

i won't discount it, but that makes no sense. 

I want my exclusives to be powerful to make the effort obtaining them worthwhile AND to give me a reason not to just sell it for the slot. I'm not saying they have to be the best in their class, but if they aren't somewhere up on the list I see no reason for it to sit in my inventory any longer than it takes me to level it to 30. Not everyone wants the game to be easy, there are valid reasons for wanting powerful exclusives that don't reside in a desire to cheese the game.

well, the ideal example, SWraith - it didn't need to be as insane as it is, it's not that SWraith needed to be even close to what it is now, more that Strun was relatively meh to use to start with. ideally, Strun should've been rebalanced a bit to make it a little better, then SWraith a decent, though overall somewhat minor, upgrade over. 

 

Strun could have been 13*10, and Crits 15/200%, SWraith could have been 15*10, and Crits 20/200%.

20 extra damage would already be a pretty good upgrade. and the nudge up on Crits. 

 

 

on topic:

even if Hek was effective at midrange (which is what it exists for, isn't it? to be usable at midrange?), it would still pale compared to Sniper rifles and other more effective long range weapons.

because despite all it's 'awesomeness', Hek has a pretty good amount of spread. at medium range, only ~50% of the pellets will hit the target at all, let alone  hit a weakpoint. so it's not like Hek would be outperforming a long range weapon, by far. just be usable there. 

Edited November 11, 2013 by taiiat

[xoxcloudxox]

The Hek is beautiful, and when damage 2.0 comes out if its any good ill sell my S. Wraith as with it being level 30 i dont need it anymore, who cares if its "exclusive".

[Drifter11]

I agree, I wouldn't mind the Hek being more useful. Right now, it's just a non-option between my Strun Wraith or Sobek.

[Voidcrash]

The falloff should be removed from shotguns, and shotgun mods should be buffed.

[GhostUnitVII]

Exclusive items are ment to be powerful, in some aspects. But doesnt mean that they wont release it for future content, or have it where there is a weapons similar to it in stats. Shot guns use to be great, till Every other shot gun, including the HEK which started this mess, made them all nothing but close range YOLO!! cannons. In all honesty, the shotguns need a buff more than a nerf, and the exclusives should be left alone, or sightly more powerful than its common counterparts.

Edited November 11, 2013 by GhostUnitVII

[Naqel]

Now I understand DE, that the strun wraith is an event weapon so it SHOULD be very powerful.

 

Thing is, it shouldn't be powerful. That's the whole problem with the mentality of the playerbase nowadays.

 

New weapons shouldn't replace or invalidate older ones.

Limited availability(event) items shouldn't invalidate their common counterparts.

Warframe's power progression used to be and should be based on the mod system, not the mastery one.

 

It's this stupid notion that stronger guns will somehow make the game better, or that they have to be better for anyone to buy them, that has lead to the rampant power creep within the game.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Naqel