The Sacrifice's Operator vs. Umbra mission is still one of the worst quests in an MMO, and it sets an abysmal precedent for anyone who finishes The War Within.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

You can also sit on top of the tree in the center and win the battle while AFK, without dying once. You're probably not clever enough to use verticality to your advantage, though. You, and a lot of people here, misinterpret my argument and I assume it is because you're too stupid to understand it (ignorance before malice, etc.) Before you use the "Git Gud" argument, do some research on the history of the meme. That meme is used to make fun of people like you.

I'll put it in nice, simple language so you can understand it with your functional neuron: this fight is one of those things that can be easy or difficult, and is bad regardless. I'm sorry you have trouble understanding that. They could have taken the quest in many other interesting directions, and they chose "sit there and shoot them for five minutes" when The New War shows that they are very willing to design interesting gameplay segments people will only see once or twice simply because said segments are interesting, and yet they chose this for The Sacrifice which is, lore-wise, one of the most important quests in the game.

People like you take my argument, extrapolate it out to fit your own insecurity, and then IMAX your stupidity for all to see as the cherry on top. That isn't my problem. I'm more annoyed that you're wasting my time with your brain-dead arguments, if you can't tell. If this was the zombie apocalypse, you'd be the last thing on a zombie's mind. If that hurts your feelings, don't act like a moron.

Aw, you were so close to breaking 10 ad-hominems in one post. Good try!

Your behaviour is a classic combination of moving the goalposts and aforementioned ad hominem typical of people who lack legitimate rebuttal when aspects of their argument are criticised and debunked.

 

Sacrifice is one of the most important quests in the game? "One of" is deliciously ambiguous and totally subjective to boot. There's a nice helping of lore/backstory in many quests, this one just happens to hit a little closer to home in its subject matter.

You asserted the Umbra fight is "attrite, get one-shot, repeat" which is factually untrue if you can observe and develop. It, along with the ending of the War Within, is less about being a 'fancy, interesting fight' as it is about leveraging the story beats while encouraging the player to further develop their Operator-play - the story leads to necessity of using the operator, developing toward that last instance into pure Operator. It's a functional trial by fire to figure out how to actively attack and manoeuvre in Op-mode rather than staying in-frame (or in void-mode immunity) and only popping out the frailer kiddo when you need to do 'an action' (as with Kuva Guardians).

Draw the comparison to Heart of Deimos - the 'big' mech-on-mech fight is not unique or terribly interesting in itself compared to its out-of-quest analogue - the cooler stuff is what happens around that fight - it's there more to teach you A) how to fight against mechs so you can do Vaults later and B) how to fight in a mech of your own, abilities included, by introducing it as an obliged limitation with an opponent curated to pose a reasonable threat.

 

The Umbra fight is reasonably possible for but not centrally balanced upon a player who has no Amp or no upgrades/mote Amp, while if you're geared, unbound and focused to the teeth, they expected that's because you've spent your fair share of Kiddo time at least in getting yourself those Eidolon shards.

It's not even the climax of the quest, either, fighting with Umbra is the payoff gameplay moment of Sacrifice. You already had 'kiddo mode is the climactic payoff' back in War Within.

It's not 'bad'. It' just isn't trying to be especially 'good'; it's trying to be functional.

[PollexMessier]

The main issue with the sacrifice is that the game does nothing to require or even suggest you should upgrade your operator significantly before doing it, or rather, that it expects you to have an upgraded operator in the first place. When upgrading your operator is something you have to go way out of your way to do. I feel like having a requirement of soloing the Teralyst before you can start the quest would pretty much solve this because it would essentially force you to learn how the operator works and how to improve them.

I'm not saying that's the *perfect* solution. Far from it. But it's a minimum effort change that would vastly improve the experience of the sacrifice because now you have better operator gear, possibly the health or armor skill from vazarin or unairu, and know how to improve now if you're still struggling. It would be an annoying roadblock, but it would make the sacrifice so much less painful.

A better, slightly more effort solution though would be to have umbra deal %health damage to operator and take %health damage from operator so he just straight up scales to how strong or week your operator is.

Its been so long I don't see DE re balancing the quest at this point though. But I agree it has massive issues.

[Lutesque]

3 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

I feel like having a requirement of soloing the Teralyst before you can start the quest would pretty much solve this because it would essentially force you to learn how the operator works and how to improve them.

It wouldn't....

Simply because if people Actually didn't mind doing the most Toxic content in the game then they would have already done that....

But I still agree with your suggestion because forcing people to suffer through that content is the best way for people to finally start Complaining about it to finally get fixed just like they did with the Reskinned Bounties after The New War....

They were always broken.... But nobody cared because they weren't gate keeping any nice goodies ... Then all the new content Dropped and was locked behind these Broken Bounties.... And we Complained...and whined... And Complained and whined even more then we took a short tea break then went right back to complaining....

I'm gonna level with you... I don't even think they fixed them.... But atleast it shows that forcing people to Suffer is a great way to get Feedback so yeah.... I think you're Idea is Awesome 👍 !!!

4 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

I'm not saying that's the *perfect* solution. Far from it. But it's a minimum effort change that would vastly improve the experience of the sacrifice because now you have better operator gear, possibly the health or armor skill from vazarin or unairu, and know how to improve now if you're still struggling. It would be an annoying roadblock, but it would make the sacrifice so much less painful.

The down side is you have do kill a Terralyst just to complete a quest....

I mean.... Does that seem like it's a fair Request ?

4 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Its been so long I don't see DE re balancing the quest at this point though. But I agree it has massive issues.

Well now they don't have a choice... Since they are removing Void Blast and Changing Void Dash... They have re-evaluate all the quests that require thesee Mechanics to do them....

Perhaps they might do something about the experience while they're at it....

I mean I don't expect they will... But if it is gonna happen... This is the only time it's realistically ever going to happen....

 

[PollexMessier]

7 hours ago, Lutesque said:

The down side is you have do kill a Terralyst just to complete a quest....

I mean.... Does that seem like it's a fair Request ?

Cus they didn't do that with railjack and new war or anything

The eidolan bosses are a mechanic you're going to want to learn eventually if you wanna get arcanes which are extremely powerful. And they're actually fun boss fights once you know what you're suppose to do. The teralyst isn't all that powerful anymore. There's loads of effective strategies and weapons against it. The other two would be a problem but just the teralyst is pretty reasonable.

The thing is the sacrifice was literally balanced around the idea that players have already done that because that's what DE does with story missions. They assume players have done major content that was released before it. Which is an awful assumption that doesn't work in a game that's constantly updating and getting new players. Which is why they should ether enforce that content as a roadblock to ensure players are up to date on what the quest was balanced around, or not balance it around side content in the first place.

But DE's gonna be DE.