The rework Limbo deserves...

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

So as we all know, Limbo has been having a pretty hard time lately. Not only is his kit kind of janky without increasing his dodge and ability cast speed, but now the eximus changes messed him up really badly.

On the first topic, people have recommended damage bypassing the rift as a solution to his problems. However, I thought of a way that would make him feel much faster, but still aligning with his original theme.

First, (the elephant in the room behind eximus changes), limbo should have better casting on his abilities. What I mean is, limbo should be able to walk while casting banish, then all abilities are given a 25-50% increase to their cast time. This will make for smoother casting of his abilities.

Second, limbo no longer enters and exists the rift by rolling. Instead, he does it by sliding. This happens at the beginning of the slide, allowing limbo to flawlessly pop into the other dimension while casting abilities and attacking, while allowing him to quickly jump between plains and put enemies into the rift, while finishing the rest.

Think of it as being some sort of "rift warrior": sliding in and out of the rift, laying down fire, and then sliding back into the rift to finish them all off in safety.

Now onto the eximus...

I think they need to stop bypassing rift, it ruins the whole point of limbo as he's supposed to be the "master of the rift, popping in and out to divide his enemies and seize control" but then the eximus just kill him as he jumps into his supposed "safety."

A second change would be to make them immune to the effects of banish like boss enemies. That way, you pop out of rift, banish the other enemies and then their all frozen. And now you are safe so you can pop back out, deplete overguard, and freeze the eximus.

(You will still be able to rift surge them as well by using your 4th ability so if you want to focus on instakilling the eximus, you still can, it'll just be safer.)

I feel like if they made limbo faster using these changes or similar ones, he would be more fun to play and feel less clunky utilizing his abilities which is the main problem with his kit.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

So as we all know, Limbo has been having a pretty hard time lately. Not only is his kit kind of janky without increasing his dodge and ability cast speed, but now the eximus changes messed him up really badly.

On the first topic, people have recommended damage bypassing the rift as a solution to his problems. However, I thought of a way that would make him feel much faster, but still aligning with his original theme.

First, (the elephant in the room behind eximus changes), limbo should have better casting on his abilities. What I mean is, limbo should be able to walk while casting banish, then all abilities are given a 25-50% increase to their cast time. This will make for smoother casting of his abilities.

Second, limbo no longer enters and exists the rift by rolling. Instead, he does it by sliding. This happens at the beginning of the slide, allowing limbo to flawlessly pop into the other dimension while casting abilities and attacking, while allowing him to quickly jump between plains and put enemies into the rift, while finishing the rest.

Think of it as being some sort of "rift warrior": sliding in and out of the rift, laying down fire, and then sliding back into the rift to finish them all off in safety.

Now onto the eximus...

I think they need to stop bypassing rift, it ruins the whole point of limbo as he's supposed to be the "master of the rift, popping in and out to divide his enemies and seize control" but then the eximus just kill him as he jumps into his supposed "safety."

A second change would be to make them immune to the effects of banish like boss enemies. That way, you pop out of rift, banish the other enemies and then their all frozen. And now you are safe so you can pop back out, deplete overguard, and freeze the eximus.

(You will still be able to rift surge them as well by using your 4th ability so if you want to focus on instakilling the eximus, you still can, it'll just be safer.)

I feel like if they made limbo faster using these changes or similar ones, he would be more fun to play and feel less clunky utilizing his abilities which is the main problem with his kit.

TL;DR fix the eximus immunity DE or think it through because ^this^ hurts alot. On a ton of frames. Granted It should work on gloom, etc ,but Avalanche, Limbos entire kit, Loki's disarm there should be some thought to this.

Also on slide is cool but that would interfere with parkour. Just give him a leave rift ability or stick to the roll.

[gamingchair1121]

you have no idea how much i slide

i even have it bound to my mouse wheel down

roll into rift is better

also the portals shouldnt force into the rift it should be press x and you go into the rift for allies and for you its instant

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

TL;DR fix the eximus immunity DE or think it through because ^this^ hurts alot. On a ton of frames. Granted It should work on gloom, etc ,but Avalanche, Limbos entire kit, Loki's disarm there should be some thought to this.

Also on slide is cool but that would interfere with parkour. Just give him a leave rift ability or stick to the roll.

The difference is rolling is slow and clunky, sliding is fast, spammable, and you can attack or cast banish while using it.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

2 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

you have no idea how much i slide

i even have it bound to my mouse wheel down

Sliding would allow you to attack while going between dimensions. It's also way faster than rolling so not as annoying.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

Just now, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

The difference is rolling is slow and clunky, sliding is fast, spammable, and you can attack or cast banish while using it.

Yeah its spammable, its how you start every bullet jump. So if you were to slide to try and bullet jump, It would pull you out of void.

[gamingchair1121]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Sliding would allow you to attack while going between dimensions. It's also way faster than rolling so not as annoying.

ok sure but it still messes with movement

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

Just now, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Yeah its spammable, its how you start every bullet jump. So if you were to slide to try and bullet jump, It would pull you out of void.

And then you just slide again, not to mention rolling has the same problem, but slower.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Sliding would allow you to attack while going between dimensions. It's also way faster than rolling so not as annoying.

I see what your saying, what if void toggled when you are shooting, Like ivara's prowl? it'd be busted but cool

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

44 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

I see what your saying, what if void toggled when you are shooting, Like ivara's prowl? it'd be busted but cool

Essentially what the sliding does, but now banish is useful because it will be much faster and won't have the "must be the same dimension" problem.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Essentially, but now you banish is useful because it will be much faster and won't have the "must be the same dimension" problem.

To be fair, the same dimension problem is what made him balanced. The only caveats to that are nullifiers and the new eximus

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

Just now, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

To be fair, the same dimension problem is what made him balanced. The only caveats to that are nullifiers and the new eximus

Yeah but because of how slow and clunky the dash is, most of the time the bubble is better, so my idea is to make banish faster, while cataclysm has the high range.

[sunderthefirmament]

There is no delicate way to say this.  The rift is a bad mechanic and it's unhealthy for gameplay.  It should be removed outright and Limbo's kit should be rebuilt from the ground up.  No more griefing.  No more steadily shrinking sphere of you-can't-hit-that.  No more items floating around after you waiting to be picked up.  No more needlessly complicated third ability.  No more getting body blocked by enemies in another dimension somehow.

 

To those that like his passive style of invulnerability and would miss it, I'm sorry.  Try a stealth frame.  Or Inaros.  Limbo is too feast-or-famine in his effect on the game, and he should be changed.  There are plenty of ways to be true to his theme of "interdimensional wizard" without preserving the sad rift mechanic.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

4 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

There is no delicate way to say this.  The rift is a bad mechanic and it's unhealthy for gameplay.  It should be removed outright and Limbo's kit should be rebuilt from the ground up.  No more griefing.  No more steadily shrinking sphere of you-can't-hit-that.  No more items floating around after you waiting to be picked up.  No more needlessly complicated third ability.  No more getting body blocked by enemies in another dimension somehow.

 

To those that like his passive style of invulnerability and would miss it, I'm sorry.  Try a stealth frame.  Or Inaros.  Limbo is too feast-or-famine in his effect on the game, and he should be changed.  There are plenty of ways to be true to his theme of "interdimensional wizard" without preserving the sad rift mechanic.

Limbo is the rift. The rift is limbo. Read limbo's description; it literally says he's supposed to divide and conquer using the rift. Look at his prime description: he's called a "golden riftwalker." He's supposed to slide in and out of the rift, killing some enemies and banishing the others where he can kill them safely.

If there's no rift, there's no limbo.

[sunderthefirmament]

26 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Limbo is the rift. The rift is limbo. Read limbo's description; it literally says he's supposed to divide and conquer using the rift. Look at his prime description: he's called a "golden riftwalker." He's supposed to slide in and out of the rift, killing some enemies and banishing the others where he can kill them safely.

If there's no rift, there's no limbo.

The rift can be reinvented as teleportation, buffs, debuffs, utility, and other effects that aren't so disruptive to gameplay.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

3 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

The rift can be reinvented as teleportation, buffs, debuffs, utility, and other effects that aren't so disruptive to gameplay.

There's actually a version of limbo without the rift.

He's named Harrow...

[sunderthefirmament]

Just now, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

There's actually a version of limbo without the rift.

He's named Harrow...

The two have very little in common in terms of gameplay.  Yes, they're both associated with the void or extradimensional powers/beings.  But this just proves that Limbo's theme can be interpreted in any number of ways in gameplay.  The rift as we know it in terms of gameplay should be completely discarded.  It's led to nothing but problems.  Limbo's relevance gets chipped away in each major update, leading me to believe that DE doesn't like the idea of a player being completely safe and shutting down the map.  If we lose the rift (as we know it in terms of gameplay) then Limbo could be reworked to play with others in a better way and be more useful in a variety of missions.

 

He deserves to not be the frame that people roll their eyes when they see in a public mission.  To get him to that level, his needlessly complex and frustrating rift mechanic needs to be thrown out.

[gamingchair1121]

3 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

The rift as we know it in terms of gameplay should be completely discarded.  It's led to nothing but problems.  

have you tried him in mobile defense yet?

4 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

If we lose the rift (as we know it in terms of gameplay) then Limbo could be reworked to play with others in a better way and be more useful in a variety of missions.

the rift is limbo's gimmick. if its removed limbo is no longer limbo

also limbo is good in just about every mission. which ones and why:

• Assault
• - Defensive ability
• Capture
• - Ability to stay in the rift for most of the mission
• Defection
• - Heals defectors
• Defense
• - Defensive ability
• Excavation
• - Defensive ability
• Infested Salvage
• - Good
• Interception
• - CC and AI stopping
• Mobile defense
• - Defensive ability
• Rescue
• - Heals rescue target
• Sabotage
• - Ability to stay in the rift for most of the mission
• Spy
• - Bypasses lasers in the rift, disables drones using stasis
• Survival
• - Ability to stay in the rift for most of the mission and excels at camping

and compared to the ones he's bad at, just 4:

• Assassination
• - Squishiness, although you could spam Magus Repair or something to heal
• Disruption
• - Just plain useless there, rift doesn't affect demos at all
• Exterminate
• - trust me dont bring him unless you know you will have teammates
• Hijack
• - On the low side of shields for hijack effectiveness

[sunderthefirmament]

3 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

have you tried him in mobile defense yet?

I'm MR32 with an obscene amount of hours in this game.  I used to use Limbo quite a bit on Grineer and Infested mobile defense sorties.  You could pop the 4 and the 2 with a nice small build and only have to refresh your 2 once.  Easy.  I would just stare at my phone.  Not great gameplay, is it?  This is that feast-or-famine style of gameplay I was talking about.  It's not engaging or healthy for the game.

 

4 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

the rift is limbo's gimmick. if its removed limbo is no longer limbo

Per my previous comment:

25 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

The rift can be reinvented as teleportation, buffs, debuffs, utility, and other effects that aren't so disruptive to gameplay.

What you think of as "the rift" is inconsistent invulnerability and an inability to affect things in the game.  It's not a great execution of "another dimension" or whatever DE was going for.  You're still getting blocked by physical objects and enemy bodies.  And the negative effects it has on other players' experiences when not managed properly just outweigh any benefits of "But I like to press shift and no longer need to play the game."

 

6 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

also limbo is good in just about every mission. which ones and why:

There are better picks than Limbo for basically everything now except the "3 wins in a row while the enemies score zero times in Index" for Nightwave.  He can be used in all sorts of missions with varying degrees of effectiveness, sure.  So can every frame.  But no other frame will be anywhere near as disruptive to other players, outside of a Slowva on defense or something.

 

Look, you obviously like Limbo enough to drop ~$50 on him for that glyph.  I don't mean to insult you by criticizing what you like.  I just don't think he's a very engaging frame to play, and I don't think the effect he has on the game is good for the long term health of Warframe.  I think DE agrees with me.  Why else would they be eroding his performance?  He lost the ability to fire exodia blasts through the rift.  Then he lost his ability to stop sentients completely.  The new eximus units ignore the rift's CC effects, and can fire their powers right through it.  These changes might not all be targeted at Limbo, but the end result is the same.  He's losing ground. 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

The two have very little in common in terms of gameplay.  Yes, they're both associated with the void or extradimensional powers/beings.  But this just proves that Limbo's theme can be interpreted in any number of ways in gameplay.  The rift as we know it in terms of gameplay should be completely discarded.  It's led to nothing but problems.  Limbo's relevance gets chipped away in each major update, leading me to believe that DE doesn't like the idea of a player being completely safe and shutting down the map.  If we lose the rift (as we know it in terms of gameplay) then Limbo could be reworked to play with others in a better way and be more useful in a variety of missions.

 

He deserves to not be the frame that people roll their eyes when they see in a public mission.  To get him to that level, his needlessly complex and frustrating rift mechanic needs to be thrown out.

Limbo has cc, damage boosting, energy on enemy kills and invulnerability.

Harrow has cc, damage boosting (via crits multiplying damage), energy on enemy kills, and invulnerability.

The difference is harrow has less invulnerability but has shield gating while limbo has the rift.

[Mazifet]

As a self-certified Limbo main, I find that his problem isn't his kit, but the way specific enemies interact with him. The topic of nullifiers and reworked eximus units effects on Limbo has been discussed many times, and this is my opinion on it. Firstly, nullifiers are a massive pain, as they appear extremely often is both corpus and corrupted missions, and completely disable your cataclysm. Instead of completely negating the cataclysm, when a nullifier comes in contact with the cataclysm, it will create a gap within the cataclysm protecting them and other enemies within it from the rift. Imagine an air bubble in water, the bubble being the nullifier going through the cataclysm, and the water is the rift. Since the bubble is not considered within the rift it can only be damaged when you are outside the rift. Additionally once the bubble has been destroyed the nullifier unit can not re cast the field as long as they are under the effect of stasis. Personally I do not have a problem with eximus's interaction with Limbo as I am still able to damage and therefore kill them making them a non-threat.

 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)Upl0rdYT:

So as we all know, Limbo has been having a pretty hard time lately. Not only is his kit kind of janky without increasing his dodge and ability cast speed, but now the eximus changes messed him up really badly.

On the first topic, people have recommended damage bypassing the rift as a solution to his problems. However, I thought of a way that would make him feel much faster, but still aligning with his original theme.

First, (the elephant in the room behind eximus changes), limbo should have better casting on his abilities. What I mean is, limbo should be able to walk while casting banish, then all abilities are given a 25-50% increase to their cast time. This will make for smoother casting of his abilities.

Second, limbo no longer enters and exists the rift by rolling. Instead, he does it by sliding. This happens at the beginning of the slide, allowing limbo to flawlessly pop into the other dimension while casting abilities and attacking, while allowing him to quickly jump between plains and put enemies into the rift, while finishing the rest.

Think of it as being some sort of "rift warrior": sliding in and out of the rift, laying down fire, and then sliding back into the rift to finish them all off in safety.

Now onto the eximus...

I think they need to stop bypassing rift, it ruins the whole point of limbo as he's supposed to be the "master of the rift, popping in and out to divide his enemies and seize control" but then the eximus just kill him as he jumps into his supposed "safety."

A second change would be to make them immune to the effects of banish like boss enemies. That way, you pop out of rift, banish the other enemies and then their all frozen. And now you are safe so you can pop back out, deplete overguard, and freeze the eximus.

(You will still be able to rift surge them as well by using your 4th ability so if you want to focus on instakilling the eximus, you still can, it'll just be safer.)

I feel like if they made limbo faster using these changes or similar ones, he would be more fun to play and feel less clunky utilizing his abilities which is the main problem with his kit.

it's not just about limbo. there are extremely many warframes that have outdated skills. i would like to play with frost. just what for? or who saw him in the game? I have to laugh...
what the devs absolutely have to do: same system as in railjack with skill tabs. and you can use good mods for skills so that they can finally be used in the end content!!!