Warframe Powers And Mechanics Post U14

[PsycloneM]

Volt

 

Electric Shield has increased in size. Here's a poor comparison:

 

Old

New

 

When I took a screenshot of the previous Electric Shield before the update, I did not account for the possibility that the new shield would take up the entire screen from my perspective. I had to back up just to get the new shield in view. The shield size is not affected by power range. The previous mechanics (+50% electricity damage and 2x critical damage when shot through) appear to be intact.

 

 

Ash

 

Shuriken now has a 100% status chance. At max rank, one shuriken will inflict 500 slash damage. A damaged enemy will also take an additional 500 x 0.35 = 175 finisher damage per second for 6 seconds, which bypasses shields and armor, for an extra 175 x 7 = 1225 damage. Anything that increases the base damage of Shuriken, such as power strength and headshots, will also increase the damage of the bleed DoT.

 

Teleport can now leave targets vulnerable to finishers. I'm still in the process of testing this power, and from what I'm observing it's not very consistent. I've read that activating Blade Storm will disable the finisher prompt, so I need to confirm this behavior.

 

Blade Storm now deals 750 / 1000 / 1500 / 2000 slash damage with a 100% status chance. At max rank, one attack will inflict an additional 2000 x 0.35 x 7 = 4900 finisher damage in 6 seconds, ignoring shields and armor. The attacks still add to your combo counter multiplier, and the number of hits depends on the attack animation. I can also confirm that the damage is now affected by the combo counter multiplier as described in the patch notes. As you would expect, this also increases the damage of the bleed DoT.

 

 

Finishers

 

It was also mentioned that finishers now have an improved damage formula. Here's an example of what I was seeing previously before the update. The damage of finisher executions depended on the base damage of the weapon, increased by Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike, and Steel Charge. With Dual Ichor, I would see 35 x ( 1 + 1 + 1.2 + 0.6 ) x 4 = 532 finisher damage, and 532 x 5.7 = 3032 finisher damage for a critical hit.

 

The new damage formula appears to be:

 

( base damage + elemental damage ) x 16

 

Here, the base damage does not account for melee damage mods as mentioned previously. So with just +60% cold damage, Dual Ichor inflict 35 x ( 1 + 0.6 ) x 16 = 896 finisher damage, and 896 x 5.7 = 5107 finisher damage for a critical hit.

 

With the Dragon Nikana, I had a total of 180% additional damage from elemental mods: 85 x ( 1 + 1.8 ) x 16 = 3808 finisher damage, and 3808 x 3.8 = 14470 finisher damage for a critical hit.

[PsycloneM]

Nova

 

Molecular Prime no longer instantly casts its effect over an area. Instead, casting the power produces an antimatter shock that propagates at a speed of roughly 5 - 6 m/s, The shock travels for 6 seconds, and this duration is affected by power duration. The speed of the shock does not appear to be affected by power duration. It's also important to know that you cannot recast Molecular Prime while the shock is in motion. The duration of the prime has been reduced from 60 seconds to 10 / 15 / 20 / 30 seconds, affected by power duration.

 

It's difficult at the moment to get a reliable measurement of the shock's speed since its visuals are discontinuous. Unfortunately, I don't have any rank-0 Molecular Prime mod cards to test. So I won't be able to determine if the shock's speed or duration depend on rank.

 

The base damage and damage type appear to be the same, and the 2x multiplier is still present.

 

The explosion radius has been reduced from 8 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters to 6 / 7 / 8 / 10 meters, affected by power range.

 

The slow has also been modified from 50% to 10% / 20% / 25% / 30%, and is now affected by power strength. After a bit of testing, it appears the slow is divided by power strength (e.g., +30% power strength will reduce a primed target's movement speed to 0.7 / 1.3 = 53.8% of the original speed at max rank). I don't have Overextended, but if my observation is accurate, it might be possible to increase enemy movement speed with less power strength. If anyone can confirm this, don't hesitate to reply. This still requires more testing to determine the cap.

 

EDIT: After testing the slow thoroughly, I'm able to measure a 29% reduction for a rank-3 Molecular Prime with no additional power strength. With +30% power strength, I'm measuring a 58% reduction: much higher than what I was expecting. I'll update when I understand the relationship.

 

Primed enemies no longer detonate simultaneously (for performance reasons).

Edited May 23, 2014 by PsycloneM

[Kyte]

[Monolake]

Nova

 

Molecular Prime no longer instantly casts its effect over an area. Instead, casting the power produces an antimatter shock that propagates at a speed of roughly 5 - 6 m/s, The shock travels for 6 seconds, and this duration is affected by power duration. The speed of the shock does not appear to be affected by power duration. It's also important to know that you cannot recast Molecular Prime while the shock is in motion. The duration of the prime has been reduced from 60 seconds to 10 / 15 / 20 / 30 seconds, affected by power duration.

 

It's difficult at the moment to get a reliable measurement of the shock's speed since its visuals are discontinuous. Unfortunately, I don't have any rank-0 Molecular Prime mod cards to test. So I won't be able to determine if the shock's speed or duration depend on rank.

 

The base damage and damage type appear to be the same, and the 2x multiplier is still present.

 

The explosion radius has been reduced from 8 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters to 6 / 7 / 8 / 10 meters, affected by power range.

 

The slow has also been modified from 50% to 90% / 80% / 75% / 70%, and is now affected by power strength. After a bit of testing, it appears the slow is divided by power strength (e.g., +30% power strength will reduce a primed target's movement speed to 0.7 / 1.3 = 53.8% of the original speed at max rank). I don't have Overextended, but if my observation is accurate, it might be possible to increase enemy movement speed with less power strength. If anyone can confirm this, don't hesitate to reply. This still requires more testing to determine the cap.

 

Primed enemies no longer detonate simultaneously (for performance reasons).

 

Isn't speed something like +(power mods)x2.5?  Low rank Overextended doesnt speed them up

[PsycloneM]

I'm not familiar with that expression. Could you use that in an example?

 

As for a low-rank Overextended: Rank 0, 1, and 2 reduce power strength by -10%, -20%, and -30%. If the slow is divided by power strength, each rank of Overextended would reduce a target's speed to 77.8%, 87.5%, and 100% of the original value. You wouldn't notice a speed increase until rank 3 and higher.

 

EDIT: After testing the slow thoroughly, power strength might not affect it as I once thought.

Edited May 23, 2014 by PsycloneM

[Monolake]

I'm not familiar with that expression. Could you use that in an example?

 

As for a low-rank Overextended: Rank 0, 1, and 2 reduce power strength by -10%, -20%, and -30%. If the slow is divided by power strength, each rank of Overextended would reduce a target's speed to 77.8%, 87.5%, and 100% of the original value. You wouldn't notice a speed increase until rank 3 and higher.

 

EDIT: After testing the slow thoroughly, power strength might not affect it as I once thought.

I mean it could be the power mod value gets multiplied, so its not  "base value*(1+%)" but "base value*(1+%*multiplier). And thus with Overextended you get a negative number so in result its speeding up "base value*(1-60%*multiplier)"

Dont have a blank Mprime, but I have spare Overextended I could give you.

[RealPandemonium]

I can also confirm that minimum power strength speeds them up (very useful for farming Ruk and Kril!) instead of slowing them.  I have both a max Overextended and an unranked Molecular Prime, so I will do a rough test to see if a minimum rank MPrime speeds them up more with min strength.  I am a little inept with the math side of things so independent research into the precise nature of the relationship between the stats will not likely be coming from me, except if you have theories that you would like me to test.

 

Edit: I did some testing against Ruk as well as some Terminus Butchers.  It was difficult to distinguish a difference in the speed increase between a ranked and unranked MPrime.  If any of you can come up with a good metric to use to measure the speed differences I can get started on that and record some data. 

Edited May 24, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[CubedOobleck]

Any news on Absorb?

 

I've read some weird things, like for example that the damage absorption is capped at 200 dps per source of damage...

what ever that means :s

Edited May 24, 2014 by CubedOobleck

[PsycloneM]

I mean it could be the power mod value gets multiplied, so its not  "base value*(1+%)" but "base value*(1+%*multiplier). And thus with Overextended you get a negative number so in result its speeding up "base value*(1-60%*multiplier)"

Dont have a blank Mprime, but I have spare Overextended I could give you.

 

Oh, I see. Yeah, that's a possibility, but I won't know for sure unless I can test different values of power strength and try to determine the relationship. If you could give me that spare Overextended, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

 

Edit: I did some testing against Ruk as well as some Terminus Butchers.  It was difficult to distinguish a difference in the speed increase between a ranked and unranked MPrime.  If any of you can come up with a good metric to use to measure the speed differences I can get started on that and record some data. 

 

When I tested the shock's speed, one of my goals was to determine how its maximum range depended on duration. I stood near a position where I thought I'd intersect the shock, and looked for an object (ideally something tall with a flat surface, normal to my line of sight) whose distance could be measured with no difficulties (using the Codex scanner). The object's surface would be a reference point, and I moved Nova as close as I could to that point. I used a large storage crate on a Grineer tileset, and positioned Nova near the closest edge. The tileset I used made it easy to see where my sprint path would be. I cast Molecular Prime, sprinted forward to my initial guess of where the shock would dissipate, and recorded. 

 

After viewing the recording, I could see where the shock disappeared along my sprint path. I moved Nova to that point, and then finally, I measured the distance between Nova and the original reference point. If Nova was X meters away from the reference point during the cast (lateral distance), then I would have to move Nova X meters away from the sprint path. This is so I'm not measuring any hypotenuses.

 

I've tested this with no duration mods, Continuity, and Continuity+Constitution. I'm observing maximum distances of roughly 33 m, 43 m, and 52 m: 33 x 1.3 = 42.9 ----> 43, 33 x 1.58 = 52.1 ----> 52. Distance increases linearly with duration. Since I'm also using QuickTime to analyze the current time of a given frame, the wave's duration increases linearly with power duration: from 6 seconds, to 7.8 seconds, to 9.48 seconds. From this I can conclude that the wave's speed does not increase with power duration, and that the speed is roughly 5.5 m/s at max rank.

 

If you have QuickTime (or any software that can analyze the current time of a frame to the nearest hundredth), what you could do first is determine the duration of each wave. Use the frame where Nova violently releases energy from her hand while its in contact with the ground as the initial frame. The final frame is when Molecular Prime's icon next to your energy meter becomes highlighted. You could then measure the maximum distance for a specific rank using the procedure I described earlier. From there, you can estimate the speed of the wave for each rank.

 

 

Any news on Absorb?

 

I've read some weird things, like for example that the damage absorption is capped at 200 dps per source of damage...

what ever that means :s

 

I saw that in the wiki comments, and it doesn't make sense to me. The "200 dps" mentioned in the article is referring only to the minimum damage. With no extra power strength, sitting in Absorb for 15 seconds will yield a 3000 damage minimum. Nowhere does that imply a 200-dps cap on absorbed damage. If allies are contributing to the absorbed damage with Antimatter Drop, then the minimum damage is likely to be exceeded. Considering that it's possible for allies to add a significant amount of absorbed damage with any explosive weapon, I don't understand that person's test and conclusions.

[RealPandemonium]

snip

I was actually talking about testing the speed increase on enemies when used with a negative power strength bonus.  I tried to see if using an unranked MPrime would slow down the enemies less or more.  I couldn't perceive a difference, but would like to establish a good metric for the comparison so that I can record actual data.  I tried eyeballing how fast butchers closed the gap to me as well as the difference in swing rate.  I tried the same with Ruk, measuring his movement speed and the frequency of his attacks.  I couldn't discern a difference.  Gonna try recording footage and measuring frame by frame.

[PsycloneM]

For the slow, I use a trooper and measure the time between muzzle flashes from its Sobek. On Grineer defense, I would spare one trooper and have it target the pod. I'd record and mark down the times for initial and final frames for numerous shots. Then I'd take an average to find the duration of time between shots. I would do the same after applying Molecular Prime, and then divide the first averaged duration by the second.

[RealPandemonium]

I took some footage and recorded some data:

20 frames between muzzle flashes | 3 shots/sec = baseline
 
+102 strength maxrank (http://i.imgur.com/ExKFNHF.jpg) : 82 frames | .73 shots/sec = 76% slow
 
+102 strength minrank (http://i.imgur.com/XGQXyzy.jpg) : 79 frames | .76 shots/sec = 75% slow

+57 strength maxrank (http://i.imgur.com/NyWXDbM.jpg) : 75 frames | .8 shots/sec = 73% slow

+57 strength minrank (http://i.imgur.com/0pOomiV.jpg) : 57 frames | 1.1 shots/sec = 63% slow
 
neutral strength maxrank (http://i.imgur.com/Bpctuny.jpg) : 31 frames | 1.9 shots/sec = 37% slow
 
neutral strength minrank (http://i.imgur.com/STs4uBg.jpg) : 25 frames | 2.4 shots/sec = 20% slow

-60 strength maxrank (http://i.imgur.com/CmlWWpc.jpg) : 17 frames | 3.5 shots/sec = 17% speed up

-60 strength minrank (http://i.imgur.com/OldsqOv.jpg) : 15 frames | 4 shots/sec = 33% speed up

From this we can conclude that a minimum rank MPrime does indeed speed up enemies more than a maxed one. Overall I would consider this a major buff to Nova as it is now possible to tune the slow to either make it more powerful than it used to be or make it speed up enemies instead (if that is desirable.) 

 

I can upload the footage if you wish, but it will take some time.  I hope this helps, and let me know if I overlooked anything.

 

Edit: In case people were wondering, the software I used for this test was Fraps for the recording (I used the free version that can only take 30 second videos) and Virtualdub to watch it frame-by-frame (Virtualdub is totally free and open source.)

Edited May 26, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[ThePresident777]

Choice is not a buff.

[MechaKnight]

Choice is not a buff.

If the additional choices lead to quality builds that are each considerably valid in gameplay, it can be considered a buff. As in, additional variety that's useful is a good thing. Conversely, when the only decent build is one single cookie-cutter build, there's a problem.

 

Edit: I didn't mean "buff" as in an increase in efficiency, I meant it as an improvement to gameplay by additional ways to play the game. It's balanced, yet better.

Edited May 27, 2014 by MechaKnight

[ThePresident777]

OK, then Warframes with more builds are OP because other Warframes have fewer builds.  Nerf the Warframes with more builds.  Buff the Warframes with fewer builds.  DPS and kill stealing were never valid arguments at all.

[Archwizard]

OK, then Warframes with more builds are OP because other Warframes have fewer builds.  Nerf the Warframes with more builds.  Buff the Warframes with fewer builds.  DPS and kill stealing were never valid arguments at all.

 

I think in the case of build variety, the buffing is more important than the nerfing. Taking away the player's choice in how they play should rarely be considered an option, so long as all builds perform within a reasonable margin of effectiveness.

 

In some (rare) cases, kill stealing actually is a valid argument, because it can actively take away from some frames' ability to perform. For example, killing targets marked for Bladestorm before the player had a chance to execute them (thereby making the ultimate a waste of energy), not allowing the Nekros to build up Shadows of the Dead, etc. In those cases, of course, it's more of a flaw of the ability than in the playstyle (as DE is finally coming to realize with Ash).

[ThePresident777]

Nerfs take away the player's choice in how they play: Overheat, Mprime, Blessing, etc.  External conditions increase the player's choice in how they play.

[Kyte]

More build variety is not a buff, it's just more options. Let's not mix words here.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Kyte

[PsycloneM]

 

-Observations-

 

Hey, nice work. 

 

Your observed speed debuffs appear to be offset. The rank-0 slow should be close to 10%, whereas the rank-3 slow should be roughly 30%. I don't think there's anything you could have done to avoid the discrepancy considering the baseline you chose.

 

I tested troopers for the reason that they shoot their Sobeks at a low rate of fire. With high-RoF weapons, the muzzle flashes (at least on my system) do not always appear consistently. The first time I tested Molecular Prime's slow, I used elite lancers with their Hinds. My observed values were always offset by roughly 5-10%. I noticed an increase in accuracy when I tested troopers and the attack rate of chargers. 

 

I've been testing both Warcry and Molecular Prime. With a bit of luck I've managed to acquire both Overextended and Blind Rage this weekend, so I can now share some observations.

 

Baseline: Trooper's Sobek, mean duration between shots = 0.647 s.

 

Molecular Prime (rank 3):

 

Warcry (rank 3):

 

So you can see that Molecular Prime's slow is not affected by power strength in the same manner that other abilities are. Typically if you apply +30% power strength to a base value, you would end with a new value that is ( 1 + 0.3 ) = 1.3 times higher than the original. This is observed with Warcry. With Molecular Prime, it appears power strength is just added to the base value. So a 30% slow with +30% power strength becomes a 60% slow. This explains why Overextended can actually increase an enemy's speed. As you've observed, a minimum-rank Molecular Prime and a maximum-rank Overextended will produce the highest speed increase.

 

I can also confirm that the cap is at roughly 75%, so thanks for taking the time to test and share your observations. I don't have a rank-0 Molecular Prime, so I would like to ask if you could measure the wave's duration when you have the time. If you determine that the duration is roughly 6 seconds, that will rule out the possibility that the duration changes with rank.

Edited May 27, 2014 by PsycloneM

[ThePresident777]

Mprime_Enemy_Speed_Adjustment = [Mprime_Speed_Effect (Mprime_Rank) + Intensify_Base_Effect * (1 + Intensify_Rank) + Blind_Rage_Base_Power_Strength * (1 + Blind_Rage_Rank)]

Mprime_Speed_Effect is a step function such that Mprime_Speed_Effect(x) = { 0.10 if x <=0, 0.20 if 0 < x <=1, 0.25 if 1 < x <= 2, 0.30 if x > 2}

Speed_Factor = f(Mprime_Enemy_Speed_Adjustment) + g(Mprime_Enemy_Speed_Adjustment) * Mprime_Enemy_Speed_Adjustment

Where f is a step function such that f(x) = {1 if x < 1, 0 otherwise} and g is a step function such that g(x) = {-1 if x < 1, 1 otherwise}

Enemy_Speed = Base_Enemy_Speed * Speed_Factor

Or, something like that.

Edited May 27, 2014 by ThePresident777

[RealPandemonium]

I don't have a rank-0 Molecular Prime, so I would like to ask if you could measure the wave's duration when you have the time. If you determine that the duration is roughly 6 seconds, that will rule out the possibility that the duration changes with rank.

 

I'll be able to log in and test this soon.  I'll probably post results later today or tomorrow. 

[Caipiblack]

About nyx 

 

Absorb :

 

1\ The power damage mod's does not affect the ABSORBED damage and ABSORBED damage explosion

2\ It have a *main* damages who are added to absorbed damage but they are increase by the time and start at 0, exemple if you go in absorb and explose directly you will send 0 damage.If you are in absorb for exemple around 10 sec you will have around 1000-2000 main damage

3\ The power damage mods only affect the "main damage"

4\ When the absorb explose, if you are near the nyx you receive 100% of absorbed value, if you are more longer you will receive less ! So the final damages are something like : "Main damages increased by the time" + "Absorb damage" - "Distance reduction"

5\ Power efficiency mods affect the speed of the energy countdown will you are in absorb

 

 

I do my damage test with 2 nyx, and i'm sure about everything, the only thing i don't test is about the main damage for see if it up linearly or exponencialy for make the test it's easy with 2 nyx (you explose at 1 sec then 2 secs [...] And over nyx tell you how many you get ...)

 

And the same for distance, but it's harder to test because we don't know what is 1m in the game =D

[Caipiblack]

Now about Valkyr:

 

Actualy maybe hysteria is bugued,

 

Actualy hysteria is only affected by melee crit chance and melee crit multiplier maybe (I don't have make long test for it..)

(I don't know if the canalisation mods affect for exemple [•••])

 

 

But actualy (maybe it's a bug) : Power strengh mods does not affect (intensify ..), Steel Charger does not affect, Pressure Point too [•••]

 

I ask to DERebecca and she sayed, it's a know issue who could be resolved on the overhaul!

 

So actualy the best you could do is 5.7 x 300 in crit without canalisation or headshot.

And 5.7 x 600 in head shot (not tested)

 

Here is my over topic : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/237441-valkyrs-hysteria-damage/#entry2750931

Edited May 29, 2014 by Caipiblack

[RealPandemonium]

Seems like Volt Shield's punch-through shenanigans were patched out in the latest update.  Not sure if the double crit multiplier is still in effect, will test further.  The most noticeable change, however, is that you can now fire through multiple shields instead of the extra shields stopping your bullets.  The extra shields each add their own electric damage boost additively, it seems. 

 

Edit: It's still definitely boosting the crit multiplier and each additional shield boosts it that much more.  The Lanka isn't as cute anymore but now all weapons, particularly crit weapons, become monsters when fired through multiple shields.  Just took an unranked Synapse into a T3 MD and was able to kill Heavy Gunners no problem through 4 or so shields.

Edited June 22, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[PsycloneM]

I can confirm that increased punch through no longer generates additional shots. The damage bonuses are no longer limited to hitscan weapons, energy projectile weapons, and the Drakgoon. Firing through additional shields will cause the damage bonuses to stack (additive for the electricity damage, and multiplicative for the critical damage).