Damage 2.0 I Get It Now......underwhelming Fully Explained

[ClaymoreNo47]

i added another spoiler to address in more specific detail how build options variety are being destroyed.

 

 

If your gun has high crit chance, you have no choice but to make it a crit gun. You can argue that a proud individual can opt not to but this isn't what you find. Nobody is going to go a non crit soma because the base damages are so low. The same is true for Status procs. If a future gun is released with 30% status proc, And there are status proc mods. The player is forced to make this a status proc gun to get the most fun out of it. A rifle such as a Flux rifle, because of its damage type, will see very little use beyond infested. The gun itself isn't intuitively an infested slaughtering machine but its stats force it to be. Gone are the days of just enjoying using your favorite rifle for whatevs. Elements are the same. Because there are only 4 basic elements that must be combined to make 10. Its only possible to ever put at the maximum 2 compound elements on a gun for a total of 4 basic elements combined + at most 2 more depending on weapon type. Rifles gain an extra fire mode called wildfire and pistol gain an extra mod called ice-storm that doubles on on existing element mods. If you look at the combinations carefully its not possible to super stack elements to fight one faction because the base elements wont allow for all those combinations. We fall back on the perfect trio that have no weakness' have don't overlap in their basic components.

 

Gone are the days of intuitive individuality. Hey gun is pretty cool, i want it to attack faster. I want it to reload faster. Hey this gun over here i don't really care about reloading faster i might just want to give it more damage. This game is a shooter game. Core components such as reloading, magazine size, recoil, accuracy, attack speed, damage should have been at the forefront of customization. But since weapons only have 8 valuable slots, and with the introduction of this crazy element system where your only decision tree is to counter act not going 50% to a particular faction much akin to not taking a non-armor pen weapon in Damage 1.0.

[-Kelphaso-]

My Best/Fave Weapon, HATE is now nearly useless :l What am I suppose to feel right now?

Also we are Ninjas not gunners, There are many more productive ways of making Melee more viable than Ranged but after damage 2.0 DE destroyed 90% of the melee weapons

[fatpig84]

My Best/Fave Weapon, HATE is now nearly useless :l What am I suppose to feel right now?

Also we are Ninjas not gunners, There are many more productive ways of making Melee more viable than Ranged but after damage 2.0 DE destroyed 90% of the melee weapons

 

My melee weapons are doing fine.

Do explain how was it destroyed ?

[-Kelphaso-]

Try fighting a lvl 52 mob which deals more dmg than your own Melee weapon :l it takes them 7 hits to kill me but I take more than 15 to kill them and before Damage 2.0 a lvl 100 would take no more than 10 or less hits to kill them. It just makes Melee weapons feel less viable than before also a s Braton dishes out more dmg than a Melee weapon :l

[GottFaust]

i added another spoiler to address in more specific detail how build options variety are being destroyed.

 

 

If your gun has high crit chance, you have no choice but to make it a crit gun. You can argue that a proud individual can opt not to but this isn't what you find. Nobody is going to go a non crit soma because the base damages are so low. The same is true for Status procs. If a future gun is released with 30% status proc, And there are status proc mods. The player is forced to make this a status proc gun to get the most fun out of it. A rifle such as a Flux rifle, because of its damage type, will see very little use beyond infested. The gun itself isn't intuitively an infested slaughtering machine but its stats force it to be. Gone are the days of just enjoying using your favorite rifle for whatevs. Elements are the same. Because there are only 4 basic elements that must be combined to make 10. Its only possible to ever put at the maximum 2 compound elements on a gun for a total of 4 basic elements combined + at most 2 more depending on weapon type. Rifles gain an extra fire mode called wildfire and pistol gain an extra mod called ice-storm that doubles on on existing element mods. If you look at the combinations carefully its not possible to super stack elements to fight one faction because the base elements wont allow for all those combinations. We fall back on the perfect trio that have no weakness' have don't overlap in their basic components.

 

Gone are the days of intuitive individuality. Hey gun is pretty cool, i want it to attack faster. I want it to reload faster. Hey this gun over here i don't really care about reloading faster i might just want to give it more damage. This game is a shooter game. Core components such as reloading, magazine size, recoil, accuracy, attack speed, damage should have been at the forefront of customization. But since weapons only have 8 valuable slots, and with the introduction of this crazy element system where your only decision tree is to counter act not going 50% to a particular faction much akin to not taking a non-armor pen weapon in Damage 1.0.

You seem to think that there was variety before...

Prior: there were only ~8 viable armor ignoring weapons, and every single one was built rainbow.

Now: most of the weapons are viable, and each weapon has a unique build that optimizes it but yet has to be adjusted slightly depending on what you are fighting.

[fatpig84]

Try fighting a lvl 52 mob which deals more dmg than your own Melee weapon :l it takes them 7 hits to kill me but I take more than 15 to kill them and before Damage 2.0 a lvl 100 would take no more than 10 or less hits to kill them. It just makes Melee weapons feel less viable than before also a s Braton dishes out more dmg than a Melee weapon :l

 

Dude it has being that way since Damage 1.0.

If you intend to go melee, use characters that greatly boost melee or those with strong CC powers.

 

P.S. I did the Pluto alert for Dark Dagger the other day. I was facing level 62 to 65 mobs on the last few waves.

I was still able to melee them with a level 23 Mag Prime. Pull + Shield Polarize - Hammer on them. Pull again. Hammer on them again etc.

Edited November 22, 2013 by fatpig84

[ClaymoreNo47]

You seem to think that there was variety before...

Prior: there were only ~8 viable armor ignoring weapons, and every single one was built rainbow.

Now: most of the weapons are viable, and each weapon has a unique build that optimizes it but yet has to be adjusted slightly depending on what you are fighting.

whops and your 100% right. Damage 1.0 is nothing to praise. i changed it to 

 

"Perhaps we'll never see the the days on intuitive gun modding"

 

 

ill admit playing Pokemon in warframe isn't really fun. I just wanna slap some damage on my gun and call it a day. I don't really want to check the wiki every match to figure out what resistances do what. 

Edited November 22, 2013 by ClaymoreNo47

[TheArkhangel]

Post says it all. 

 

The update was not nearly explained enough. There are remarkably LESS options now than there were before. I personally made "mini-builds" for each faction, but they were near-about equally effective against other factions (for the most part). But now, I'm basically stuck with only using most weapons against one faction, and just dealing with it. 

 

 

PS: Status Chance, bad idea. If I'm going to take the time to cover my ammunition in lethal poison, I am NOT going to cover only 5% of them in it. 

[RAZORLIGHT]

like i said before, damage 2.0 was rushed, is bugged, confusing and worse

[Cuddley]

like i said before, damage 2.0 was rushed, is bugged, confusing and worse

That's like... your opinion man. 

[milkor88]

Whatever it will be.

 

 

Shine boltor, shine.

[ClaymoreNo47]

I do like some parts of 2.0 I think a good place to start patching 2.0 is to boast status proc rate. Right now they are so tiny, they only proc one every 10 or so shots. Its not really helpful nor realistic. If i was bringing special ammunition for a mission i wouldn't randomly lace 10% of my ammo with it. I'd give it to all my ammo.

[Patzer]

A rifle such as a Flux rifle, because of its damage type, will see very little use beyond infested. The gun itself isn't intuitively an infested slaughtering machine but its stats force it to be. Gone are the days of just enjoying using your favorite rifle for whatevs.

 

When ever was day like that in Warframe? Few days ago? Soma days ago? Aicrid just can't remember. Btw you can get hefty amount of corrosive and blast out of Flux so it's more than just one trick pony.

[ClaymoreNo47]

When ever was day like that in Warframe? Few days ago? Soma days ago? Aicrid just can't remember. Btw you can get hefty amount of corrosive and blast out of Flux so it's more than just one trick pony.

But most players by now own at least 2 or 3 dozen weapons. What would be the point. There are better weapons with base stats that do the job better geared toward other factions. Changing a weapon takes all but a few seconds. The need to have a weapon be all around isn't really high considering we have three weapons. You can gear your primary torwards corpus. Your pistol torwards grineer and your melee torwards infested. 

Edited November 22, 2013 by ClaymoreNo47

[WarOverlord]

Post says it all. 

 

The update was not nearly explained enough. There are remarkably LESS options now than there were before. I personally made "mini-builds" for each faction, but they were near-about equally effective against other factions (for the most part). But now, I'm basically stuck with only using most weapons against one faction, and just dealing with it. 

 

 

PS: Status Chance, bad idea. If I'm going to take the time to cover my ammunition in lethal poison, I am NOT going to cover only 5% of them in it. 

 

I do like some parts of 2.0 I think a good place to start patching 2.0 is to boast status proc rate. Right now they are so tiny, they only proc one every 10 or so shots. Its not really helpful nor realistic. If i was bringing special ammunition for a mission i wouldn't randomly lace 10% of my ammo with it. I'd give it to all my ammo.

 

 

Yes, they really need higher status chances.

 

 

[alocrius]

The new damage system isn't fine tuned yet, and given DE's track record for balancing sheet in a timely manner it may never be..  but.. it is a hell of a lot more interesting to me so far than Dmg1.0.  Considering the game has zero depth, I'll take my chances with a deeper damage system.

Edited November 23, 2013 by alocrius

[LukeAura]

totally off topic but what if we got more mod slots. God life would be easier. 

As long as they weren't cheap and we had to work for them I would be okay with this. 

Edit; @OP, Electric damage has been updated on the wiki. Does 100% bonus to shields. Not sure if it will effect your rankings or not but it could be a contender. 

Especially since all corpus are now considered robotics as well. 

This information is probably not for sure, but likely. 

Edited November 23, 2013 by LukeAura

[ClaymoreNo47]

As long as they weren't cheap and we had to work for them I would be okay with this. 

Edit; @OP, Electric damage has been updated on the wiki. Does 100% bonus to shields. Not sure if it will effect your rankings or not but it could be a contender. 

Especially since all corpus are now considered robotics as well. 

This information is probably not for sure, but likely. 

yup every element is correct. Unless it is stated it does 100% to everything else. Only bonus' and negatives were included. Most mods do 100% to most things in fact.

 

Fire seems to be only single non combined mod with no weakness

[LukeAura]

yup every element is correct. Unless it is stated it does 100% to everything else. Only bonus' and negatives were included. Most mods do 100% to most things in fact.

 

Fire seems to be only single non combined mod with no weakness

So far, yes. 

I think just a couple of solutions to balance fire damage would be 

a) Make it resisted by armour. Robotics resists too many damage types already, Shield should have no resistances. Armour is logically all that is left. 

b) Infested Flesh has very few weaknesses. Making Fire invaluable on poor slash weapons. Give it another weakness or two, and fires worth will go down. 

c) turn down the 75% against flesh on fire down to 50%. Still really good, but not absurd enough to overpower all other flesh bonus damage. 

Thoughts? 

 

[ForumSmurf]

good review. +1 from me

[Tartanu]

Aahahahaha.  Ain't nobody's got time for this.

[ForumSmurf]

Almost done compling weapons and mod tier list. Need to finish up some calculations

[AtomicPenguin76]

But most players by now own at least 2 or 3 dozen weapons. What would be the point. There are better weapons with base stats that do the job better geared toward other factions. Changing a weapon takes all but a few seconds. The need to have a weapon be all around isn't really high considering we have three weapons. You can gear your primary torwards corpus. Your pistol torwards grineer and your melee torwards infested. 

 

Cutting off new players is a terrible, terrible idea though and the game wasn't that easy to get started at in the first place.

 

Now, you need to have things leveled to the point where you can stack effects on them before they really work. You need various weapons with different damage types that you can swap in and out, and you need the appropriate mods in order to make them useful enough to progress... none of which you can do without just buying them for loads of platinum, which you can't even realistically do unless you're lucky. At best, you get what you need and then spend hours and hours on mercury trying to get them leveled to a basic starting point where you can try moving forward.

 

Basically, it's fine if that's the way it works later on but the way the damage system works right now you need to know and understand this before you can really do -anything-. If I started now instead of a month ago I'd probably have just given up.

[CY13ERPUNK]

I think you might wanna call him something else there....

 

OT:

Honestly, the new dmg system is ok(MY SOMA NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO) but I really wish they actually explained in depth on how the damage system interacts and a list of changes to weapons such as stats(At least the popular weapons....)

 

 

Ha ha, No.

 

If you don't want to min-max then you stick in a +damage mod and whatever else you like. The reduction is armour scaling makes weapons more viable that were not min-maxed. The decision as to whether you should go crit build etc is exactly the same as before.

 

 

No...

The actual model is very good. Much more complex, more fun. Game before damage 2.0 was very very simple. In resume, armor ignore weapons. Ridiculous!

 

They just need time to tweak and make this model more balanced. But from start, is much better.

 

 

Simple fix, modify percentage of the base damage mods to be lower, have them increase the damage by a percentage of total rather than respective.

 

 

They...destroyed my Flux...only thing it's good now is mostly infested since it does ONLY Slash damage T_T...now I have to have more than 1 primary for every faction...oh the pain :(

 

 

Yeah, that'd be interesting if they had two types of mods, ones that increase by % and ones that increase additively. Could make for a few more modding combinations that are worth trying out on different guns.

I like how the OP starts out by saying Armor 2.0 limits build options... and then goes on to disprove himself by listing all the new options (and even viable weapons) that didn't exist before.

I'm sorry dude, but 18-1-1 is not clearly better than 9-9-1 if you're fighting the 2nd or 3rd "1's" with it. I don't even... please fix your argument.

 

 

the thing is it made it so you can't just use one gun for any mission without at least changing up the mods. it made having multiple primaries and secondaries almost a necessity, which must be tough for f2p's without weapon slots

[ForumSmurf]

I find that now i don't really care about elemental advantage because enemy types are so varied in a single match. I find it much more manageable to just go elements that aren't weak towards anything like the ones you stated with the occasional boast.