Damage 2.0 I Get It Now......underwhelming Fully Explained

[ReiganCross]

I think Damage 2.0 has achieved it's stated goal pretty well. Namely, the goal of balancing out the bullet sponges to reasonably low damage values, so that every weapon in the game have that much more impact instead of just bouncing in infinitely large enemy health pools. Overall, Damage 2.0 is a success in my books. The problem is Mod 2.0. Mainly because the stated goal of Mod 2.0 was exactly "You have to choose the right gun for the right job." This was an effort made by DE long-long ago to make every weapon they release more unique...

[immolator1001]

I disagree I'm modding my synapse for viral + electricity. That way their weaknesses cancel out and it is op (is already op but even more op!) Also both of these effects have crowd control ability (you forgot to mention that *cough).

[LukeAura]

DE seems to be under the impression that the right way to build a weapon isn't the strongest way but your way and that is objectively false. The correct way to build a weapon is to make it the strongest it can possibly be and this system truly only allows for one build per gun rather than the promised several.

It's a pretty good post. 

And you have pretty much narrowed down the best builds to being impact focus + corrosive + fire, or puncture focus + magnetic + fire.

But I would note that for crit modded weapons you may only have room for 1 element mod, in which case Electric/Toxin/Ice may be better over fire depending on primary damage focus. 

Soma could prefer ice to deal better with heavy shielding for instance. 

 

[AtomicPenguin76]

In conclusion damage 2.0 did 4 things:

1) made this game highly confusing for non min-max oriented players

2) Made armor scaling less ridiculous for high lvl enemies (a simple fix mind you easily accomplish-able without damage 2.0)

3) Eliminate any build options at all what soever which is the opposite of what is promised. The base statistics of a weapon indicating its crit chance, slash, puncture, impact, status affect will ultimately force you to build any weapon a certain way. We might as well not have mods but a Talent system much akin to a fantasy MMO.

4) Provide you with the option of 10 different elements and combinations while in depth analysis shows that only three are the best for every possible situation.

I don't read the forums much, so I'd say I'm definitely not a min-max player. I went after Vor tonight (who I used to have no trouble with at all), got through his shield and could no longer hurt him and kind of gave up and came here to try and figure out wtf I'm supposed to be doing now, so...

Yes, it's more confusing. Enemies seem to be taking more damage and I'm doing less. The solution to this seems to be to have everything at level 30 and set up with specific mods to get certain damage types...I didn't even know combining mods in certain places on a weapon was a thing until tonight and I've been playing for a month. Maybe it wasn't before? It's not only confusing, but the game is actually harder to progress in than it was before if you're using low level weapons and a low level frame...and it was kind of annoying before to get started.

I was finally at a point where I could sort of go where I wanted and take on harder areas by myself, since I prefer to play solo, and now all of a sudden I find myself dying to things I never would have before without really even understanding why things I used to use don't work anymore. If the answer, as it seems to be, is to have everything leveled to a point where you have very specific mods installed for each item in a particular order that it doesn't even try to hint at for you... there's going to be a lot of really lost folks that aren't going to care enough to spend the time at figuring it all out if just getting through Mercury is kind of frustrating.

I can only assume people were complaining the game was too easy? Because unless you're on a high level frame with good weapons and the right mods it really wasn't, and it's definitely not now.

Edited November 22, 2013 by AtomicPenguin76

[ClaymoreNo47]

It's a pretty good post. 

And you have pretty much narrowed down the best builds to being impact focus + corrosive + fire, or puncture focus + magnetic + fire.

But I would note that for crit modded weapons you may only have room for 1 element mod, in which case Electric/Toxin/Ice may be better over fire depending on primary damage focus. 

Soma could prefer ice to deal better with heavy shielding for instance. 

 

absolutely agreed but the benefits are only marginal. Fire has no weakness so it does 100% to at least everything. Essentially the risk is up to the player. Gain a little more damage to shield at the cost of possible half damage to armor (which imo is the most important stat because armored targets are hp sponges while shielded targets are rather squishy besides boss's which will also have alot of armor) or just roll fire and do at least 100% to everything i meet and possibly alot more to flesh.

[Zagrax]

I must point out you can deal a ton of damage now, so long as you build things well.

Since I don't know how to link images inot these posts yet, I'll have to leave you a link, but this is just a good hit with the galatine whose damage was, well... kind of low in damage 1.0 as enemies would quite quickly have far too much health for any version of melee to be effective. However, now.... *points*

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/470920157737235164/C4970538BF29828AA68E8DA7F5A3DC3DDE2DEF85/1024x576.resizedimage

This goes for most weapons, so... While it's true that you can, of course, maximize the daamge of your weapon and say it's "supposed" to be built that way, I also point out that even if you don't and simply change the weapon and build it as you'd like (when it comes to status effects, firing speed, etc), then it's far more forgiving since you'll do a LOT of damage anyway.

That's a bug where your crits will hit for huge numbers if you hit them in the feet area.

[BlueIstari]

So, to reiterate: THE NEW COOKIE CUTTER

 

1: Damage

2: Toxic

3: Electric

4: Multishot

5-8: Choose based on your gun, Specialize, Elementize (Fire or Cold or Blast), Critical, Special, or Utlity.

 

Tried this earlier before I even saw your post, and I can absolutely vouch for this. Sad how the much-hyped variety of Damage 2.0 has already been reduced to cookie cutters.

[Silvershadow66]

Lots of post that claim complicity, intricacy, and depth but all i see is no options for min maxxer's. 

 

Tons of options for min-maxers. For example Flux is awesome against infested if you pump up the fire damage.

 

2.0 leads you to using different weapons and different loadouts against each faction.

[Cuddley]

Wow, DE make almost every weapon compatible and not useless. Now people who constantly run Nova Mol'prime, Soma, Acrid and Gal are pissed. 

 

Never ending butthurt.

 

If anything, 2.0 just showed everyone that you can't satisfy everybody. 

 

2.0 gave Warframe some complexity and this is what makes this game even better then before. 

[D3ST]

All i can say is, i really like the effort that scott or others have put into this, but its just soo much more confusing to make a build now,

 

AND they have effed up most of the weapons that was very good in 1.0

that wouldent have been such a problem, if we hadent already used 5 formas on them to max them,

the 5 formas and the weapon itself is usless now..

 

would be cool if we got a oppertunity to "reset"  the weapons, and get back all the forma we have now "wasted" on usless weapons.....

[SoulEchelon]

All i can say is, i really like the effort that scott or others have put into this, but its just soo much more confusing to make a build now,

 

AND they have effed up most of the weapons that was very good in 1.0

that wouldent have been such a problem, if we hadent already used 5 formas on them to max them,

the 5 formas and the weapon itself is usless now..

 

would be cool if we got a oppertunity to "reset"  the weapons, and get back all the forma we have now "wasted" on usless weapons.....

 

Maybe if you took the time to actually learn the new system, you wouldn't be having this knee-jerk reaction to it.

 

My acrid still obliterates. Even does more damage than before in fact and I only forma'd it once. My soma is mowing through enemies like they're nothing even still. Haven't even forma'd that. Synapse? no formas either, yet with the new update I've had zero problems annihilating everything in my path. Even Miter, a once terrible weapon is now surprisingly viable thanks to this update. Daggers. Remember them? I actually pulled one of mine out and worked with it. Whodathunk they would be viable again?

 

Wanna know why my weapons still do optimal damage? Because I sat down, relaxed, and read up on the new system. I picked through all my weapons and adjusted them accordingly.

 

Also, someone earlier mentioned not being able to damage Vor after his shields died. I don't know what was going on with them, but literally a few hours ago I brought my -totally unranked- tigris and cestra to him. Was about a 5 minute battle. Had to actually dodge him a bit, hide behind a container or two, time my shots and all, but he went down even faster than he would have in damage 1.0.

Edited November 22, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[MrWux]

Firs void mission i was like... "i wanna my old acrid and flux back... kmuuuu!!!"

[Malora_Sidewinder]

Wow i get it now and its far from what was promised. Build options is what was promised but now the gun's base stats already tell you what it "SHOULD" be built into without any input from you. I'm going to explain to you the in's and outs of damage 2.0 so prepare your brain you'll certainly need her.

 

A weapon will naturally gravitate towards one of three base stats which if the other 2 are really low the mods that boast them are useless because they operate on percentages 60% more slash damage on a gun with 2 slash damage will gain you a total of 1 slash damage. So it works like crit build or non crit build, the guns base stats already determine how it should be built regardless of what you want. You actually have no choice. Guns that gravitate towards one stat rather than 2 or even out on all three are superior due to the fact that the mod that boasts that specific element will gain full effect. For example a weapon that does 18-1-1 is far superior to a gun that does 9-9-1 because 60% of 18 gives the weapon a boast in about 12 while 60% of 9 is merely 5.

 

 

Additionally certain guns have godly status proc % and some don't. This would be ok if DE was known for their absolute amazing scrutinizing numerical balance of game spells, guns, items which they are not. These arbitrary inconsistencies i noticed on some weapons are ridiculous and make them stand out amongs their peers. Some guns have a 1% proc rate while some have 15%. The Proc rate mods work on percentage meaning 30% - 50% status proc rate boast on 1 % is still like 1 %.

 

 

What seems to be the least conceptually changed area is elemental mods. They are allowed to combine now into different elements but their use's largely remain the same. Two 90% mods will combine into one 180% new element and be applied as damage which dependent on enemy type will be more of less effective but not crippling so that you have to worry to much. The defining feature of the elements, their status affects such as freezing someone or lighting them on fire is highly depending on the base status % of the weapon. It is noted that the damage elementals do is base on the combination of Slash, puncture, and impact combined and viewed as the base 100%.

 

The elemental charge is as follows which is courtesy of jrkong at this link:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/134320-damage-20-damage-stats-for-those-who-havent-seen-the-design-council-chart/#entry1612001

 

 

Damage bonuses for:

-Impact does +50% vs Robotic and Shield and -50% vs Infested.

-Puncture does +50% vs Armor and Robotic and -50% vs Infested.

-Slash does +50% vs Flesh and Infested and -50% vs Robotic.

-Heat does +75% vs Flesh and +50% vs Infested.

-Cold does -50% vs Armor and +50% vs Shield.

-Electricity does -25% vs Infested and +50% vs Robotic.

-Toxic does 50% vs Flesh and -50% vs Robotic.

-Blast does +25% vs Armor and Flesh.

-Radiation does +10% vs Flesh and +50% vs Robotic.

-Gas does +25% vs Armor and Flesh and -50% vs Robotic.

-Magnetic does +75% vs Shield and +50% vs Robotic.

-Viral does +100% vs Flesh and -50% vs Robotic.

-Corrosive does +75% vs Armor and +50% vs Robotic. 

 

 

Remember the whole promise of 2.0 is options but let us analyze what we actually get. First of all what is immediately noticeable is that gas give minimal bonus' for some serious potential negatives. So avoid gas its a terrible element with a 25% boast for armor/flesh while a potential 50% negative towards robotics. Cold and toxic both have trading features which include a 50% gain and a 50% reduction on certain enemy types. While this is nice and all, it largely overshadowed by the other elements for these specific reasons. Toxic's only strength is that it does 50% more to flesh but at the same time Heat does 75% more damage to flesh which is better and it has no negatives so immediately in all situations toxic is worst than heat. 

Cold does 50% more to shield while Magnetic does 75% to shields and magnetic has no weaknesses. So far we've crossed out gas, cold, toxic and what we have left that are, corrosive, magnetic, viral, radiation, blast, electricity, and heat.

 

However electricity's only strength is 50% more to robotic but this strength is shared by many other elements that have no weakness's so electricity is not good either. The interesting thing about armor and flesh is that armor is harder to deal with because generally the bullet sponges have more armor. What is the strategical need to min-max your weapons to kill a moa? High lvl moa's have terrible hp and die relatively fast while things like ancients and heavy grineer take whole clips to down so an element like radiation and blast aren't very effective for most of your needs.

 

This leaves us with Corrosive, Viral, Magnetic, and heat. Viral does 100% more to flesh but has a potential 50% reduction to robotics while ehat does 75% to flesh which is merely 175/200 = 13% less and has no weakness'. So finally we have only 3 remaining elements that are the absolute best.

 

-Corrosive does +75% vs Armor and +50% vs Robotic. 

-Magnetic does +75% vs Shield and +50% vs Robotic.

-Heat does +75% vs Flesh and +50% vs Infested.

 

DE doesn't realize that most enemies we expect to down within 1-7 seconds depending on how tough it is not including boss's so efffects such as DOT, potential stuns, and bleeding and all that jazz are largely useless compounded by abysmal status proc percentages. Damage kills things not inconsistent and unreliable status effects. Different elements have very unique and equation altering effects taht add significantly more damage but the limiting factor is the proc % that most guns have so this feature will have to analyzed on a per gun basis. Some weapons have 1 % proc status chance so really the proc effects should be ignored for these guns. And in my honest opinion proc effects are highly personable and should be evaluated on a personal preference basis because they all do very different things. Some give a little more DOT some stun and some reduce enemy damage. I'm only concerned with killing things fast to farm faster and thus my analysis will be bias'ed in that perspective. That ancient will be dead by the time you light it on fire or make it bleed. So much for variety.

 

 

In conclusion damage 2.0 did 4 things:

 

1) made this game highly confusing for non min-max oriented players

2) Made armor scaling less ridiculous for high lvl enemies (a simple fix mind you easily accomplish-able without damage 2.0)

3) Eliminate any build options at all what soever which is the opposite of what is promised. The base statistics of a weapon indicating its crit chance, slash, puncture, impact, status affect will ultimately force you to build any weapon a certain way gearing it towards a certain enemy. 

4) Provide you with the option of 10 different elements and combinations while in depth analysis shows that only three are the best for every possible situation.

 

DE seems to be under the impression that the right way to build a weapon isn't the strongest way but your way and that is objectively false. The correct way to build a weapon is to make it the strongest it can possibly be and this system truly only allows for one build per gun rather than the promised several.

 

 

Not going to lie...

I have no trouble taking out even level 3 void runs with JUST my non-specialized soma build. it's basically a rainbow build while i find something better via experimentation. i can clear an entire room with a single magazine most of the time, within 10 or 12 seconds or so. even with a surplus of heavies *and* shield drones, my soma is still pretty ridiculous.

 

with a bit of deliberate specialization, i absolutely rip through even high level runs with just soma. this is telling me that you just haven't adapted to the new system yet.

 

it's an upgrade. trust me, it is.

[Ivarkentje]

what is the different between ''flesh'' and ''infested''?

[Vandole]

Ignore 1% Status proc weapons? I have blast with my flux rifle and I knock down every single enemy that approaches me. Quite fun and enjoyable.

But yeah, some elements / stats are weaker compared to others and might be left out. It's same with all these weapons we have, some are good, some are better and some simply fall behind in comparison.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Vandole

[azmyth1]

How many weapon slots do players get to start out?  It's been so long since I've started playing this game that I forget.

[Psychus]

Wow i get it now and its far from what was promised. Build options is what was promised but now the gun's base stats already tell you what it "SHOULD" be built into without any input from you. I'm going to explain to you the in's and outs of damage 2.0 so prepare your brain you'll certainly need her.

 

A weapon will naturally gravitate towards one of three base stats which if the other 2 are really low the mods that boast them are useless because they operate on percentages 60% more slash damage on a gun with 2 slash damage will gain you a total of 1 slash damage. So it works like crit build or non crit build, the guns base stats already determine how it should be built regardless of what you want. You actually have no choice. Guns that gravitate towards one stat rather than 2 or even out on all three are superior due to the fact that the mod that boasts that specific element will gain full effect. For example a weapon that does 18-1-1 is far superior to a gun that does 9-9-1 because 60% of 18 gives the weapon a boast in about 12 while 60% of 9 is merely 5.

 

 

Additionally certain guns have godly status proc % and some don't. This would be ok if DE was known for their absolute amazing scrutinizing numerical balance of game spells, guns, items which they are not. These arbitrary inconsistencies i noticed on some weapons are ridiculous and make them stand out amongs their peers. Some guns have a 1% proc rate while some have 15%. The Proc rate mods work on percentage meaning 30% - 50% status proc rate boast on 1 % is still like 1 %.

 

 

What seems to be the least conceptually changed area is elemental mods. They are allowed to combine now into different elements but their use's largely remain the same. Two 90% mods will combine into one 180% new element and be applied as damage which dependent on enemy type will be more of less effective but not crippling so that you have to worry to much. The defining feature of the elements, their status affects such as freezing someone or lighting them on fire is highly depending on the base status % of the weapon. It is noted that the damage elementals do is base on the combination of Slash, puncture, and impact combined and viewed as the base 100%.

 

The elemental charge is as follows which is courtesy of jrkong at this link:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/134320-damage-20-damage-stats-for-those-who-havent-seen-the-design-council-chart/#entry1612001

 

 

Damage bonuses for:

-Impact does +50% vs Robotic and Shield and -50% vs Infested.

-Puncture does +50% vs Armor and Robotic and -50% vs Infested.

-Slash does +50% vs Flesh and Infested and -50% vs Robotic.

-Heat does +75% vs Flesh and +50% vs Infested.

-Cold does -50% vs Armor and +50% vs Shield.

-Electricity does -25% vs Infested and +50% vs Robotic.

-Toxic does 50% vs Flesh and -50% vs Robotic.

-Blast does +25% vs Armor and Flesh.

-Radiation does +10% vs Flesh and +50% vs Robotic.

-Gas does +25% vs Armor and Flesh and -50% vs Robotic.

-Magnetic does +75% vs Shield and +50% vs Robotic.

-Viral does +100% vs Flesh and -50% vs Robotic.

-Corrosive does +75% vs Armor and +50% vs Robotic. 

 

 

Remember the whole promise of 2.0 is options but let us analyze what we actually get. First of all what is immediately noticeable is that gas give minimal bonus' for some serious potential negatives. So avoid gas its a terrible element with a 25% boast for armor/flesh while a potential 50% negative towards robotics. Cold and toxic both have trading features which include a 50% gain and a 50% reduction on certain enemy types. While this is nice and all, it largely overshadowed by the other elements for these specific reasons. Toxic's only strength is that it does 50% more to flesh but at the same time Heat does 75% more damage to flesh which is better and it has no negatives so immediately in all situations toxic is worst than heat. 

Cold does 50% more to shield while Magnetic does 75% to shields and magnetic has no weaknesses. So far we've crossed out gas, cold, toxic and what we have left that are, corrosive, magnetic, viral, radiation, blast, electricity, and heat.

 

However electricity's only strength is 50% more to robotic but this strength is shared by many other elements that have no weakness's so electricity is not good either. The interesting thing about armor and flesh is that armor is harder to deal with because generally the bullet sponges have more armor. What is the strategical need to min-max your weapons to kill a moa? High lvl moa's have terrible hp and die relatively fast while things like ancients and heavy grineer take whole clips to down so an element like radiation and blast aren't very effective for most of your needs.

 

This leaves us with Corrosive, Viral, Magnetic, and heat. Viral does 100% more to flesh but has a potential 50% reduction to robotics while ehat does 75% to flesh which is merely 175/200 = 13% less and has no weakness'. So finally we have only 3 remaining elements that are the absolute best.

 

-Corrosive does +75% vs Armor and +50% vs Robotic. 

-Magnetic does +75% vs Shield and +50% vs Robotic.

-Heat does +75% vs Flesh and +50% vs Infested.

 

DE doesn't realize that most enemies we expect to down within 1-7 seconds depending on how tough it is not including boss's so efffects such as DOT, potential stuns, and bleeding and all that jazz are largely useless compounded by abysmal status proc percentages. Damage kills things not inconsistent and unreliable status effects. Different elements have very unique and equation altering effects taht add significantly more damage but the limiting factor is the proc % that most guns have so this feature will have to analyzed on a per gun basis. Some weapons have 1 % proc status chance so really the proc effects should be ignored for these guns. And in my honest opinion proc effects are highly personable and should be evaluated on a personal preference basis because they all do very different things. Some give a little more DOT some stun and some reduce enemy damage. I'm only concerned with killing things fast to farm faster and thus my analysis will be bias'ed in that perspective. That ancient will be dead by the time you light it on fire or make it bleed. So much for variety.

 

 

In conclusion damage 2.0 did 4 things:

 

1) made this game highly confusing for non min-max oriented players

2) Made armor scaling less ridiculous for high lvl enemies (a simple fix mind you easily accomplish-able without damage 2.0)

3) Eliminate any build options at all what soever which is the opposite of what is promised. The base statistics of a weapon indicating its crit chance, slash, puncture, impact, status affect will ultimately force you to build any weapon a certain way gearing it towards a certain enemy. 

4) Provide you with the option of 10 different elements and combinations while in depth analysis shows that only three are the best for every possible situation.

 

DE seems to be under the impression that the right way to build a weapon isn't the strongest way but your way and that is objectively false. The correct way to build a weapon is to make it the strongest it can possibly be and this system truly only allows for one build per gun rather than the promised several.

What? Wait.... What? You say that there are 3 builds per gun, then one? What? Is 3 not better than the 1 we were given? Not to mention there isn't just 1 or 2 or 3 builds. There are as many as your tiny little brain can calculate. Some people want utility. Others, raw damage. Guess what you can do with this new system? You can create as many new builds as your imagination (and math skills) can whip up.  I get this weird feeling you haven't experimented with the new elemental types.

[Sorez]

"4) Provide you with the option of 10 different elements and combinations while in depth analysis shows that only three are the best for every possible situation."

 

And which 3 of them are best for every situation?

[GottFaust]

The only thing I get from the OP is the following: "Instead of a single build to rule every weapon, we now have one optimum build for each individual weapon which will be different depending on the weapon in question and the enemy that is targeted." This is somehow a bad thing?

[ClaymoreNo47]

i pretty sure you can you fit all three of them on your gun.Or at least two of them.

[ClaymoreNo47]

What? Wait.... What? You say that there are 3 builds per gun, then one? What? Is 3 not better than the 1 we were given? Not to mention there isn't just 1 or 2 or 3 builds. There are as many as your tiny little brain can calculate. Some people want utility. Others, raw damage. Guess what you can do with this new system? You can create as many new builds as your imagination (and math skills) can whip up.  I get this weird feeling you haven't experimented with the new elemental types.

i'm pretty sure you can you fit all three of them on your gun.Or at least two of them.

 

also quote from the last paragraph of my analysis.

 

"Some weapons have 1 % proc status chance so really the proc effects should be ignored for these guns. And in my honest opinion proc effects are highly personable and should be evaluated on a personal preference basis because they all do very different things. Some give a little more DOT some stun and some reduce enemy damage. I'm only concerned with killing things fast to farm faster and thus my analysis will be bias'ed in that perspective. That ancient will be dead by the time you light it on fire or make it bleed. So much for variety."

 

i make the case where the guys in the room will all die before you ever get to see any of those status effects in action compounded by really low proc rates.

Edited November 22, 2013 by ClaymoreNo47

[Psychus]

i pretty sure you can you fit all three of them on your gun.Or at least two of them.

 

also quote from the last paragraph of my analysis.

 

"Some weapons have 1 % proc status chance so really the proc effects should be ignored for these guns. And in my honest opinion proc effects are highly personable and should be evaluated on a personal preference basis because they all do very different things. Some give a little more DOT some stun and some reduce enemy damage. I'm only concerned with killing things fast to farm faster and thus my analysis will be bias'ed in that perspective. That ancient will be dead by the time you light it on fire or make it bleed. So much for variety."

Okay so you get 3 builds per gun that you can switch out, that's how it works. I didn't ask if you played with procs, I asked if you took a look at actual damage numbers for the new elemental effects. Procs are a fickle thing, and if you're so solely interested in killing and farming faster, they're useless to you, yes.

[ClaymoreNo47]

i did the highest some of them go is 50% more total damage of that element in the form of DOT. But if it takes 10 shots to proc it once. its 10% of 50% which is an overall 5% boast to that particular element damage. When you work with a critical hit esk system of statistics. You'll find the average values are not impressive unless that proc % is decent.

 

Then of course i had to state the obligatory, stuns and slows and such have to be subjectively viewed on a per gun/per player perspective because that cant be quantified. My analysis is geared towards doing damage and fast to clear rooms fast. I can't in anyway measure how you enjoy war-frame.

 

It is noted that we already had stun mods and freeze mods and shock mods before so that much is still constant. It would be a different story if they jsut introduced it now but we already had those things and judging from what people posted on the forums i was under the impression for last 5 months the majority of the players just wanted more damage to farm faster.

Edited November 22, 2013 by ClaymoreNo47

[LukeAura]

What? Wait.... What? You say that there are 3 builds per gun, then one? What? Is 3 not better than the 1 we were given? Not to mention there isn't just 1 or 2 or 3 builds. There are as many as your tiny little brain can calculate. Some people want utility. Others, raw damage. Guess what you can do with this new system? You can create as many new builds as your imagination (and math skills) can whip up.  I get this weird feeling you haven't experimented with the new elemental types.

Low procc chances and the ability to kill even heavies fast kills the need for utility. Utility is to make the job of killing enemies easier. One way that is both simple and straightforward is to kill them as fast as possible. If utility isn't strong enough and you're killing them fast enough. Then the best utility is more damage. 

Blast could be a great AoE utility effect, but it has such short range and a low procc there is no reason to use it other than its damage bonuses. 

So yes, you could mod your gun to utilize all these cool effects, and be fine with it with how squishy enemies are, but it isn't worth doing compared to near 1-shotting everything. 

[VegetableBasket]

I love this thread!

I hope some changes are made in response to what was pointed out here. This did help me set up three different faction oriented loadouts instead of the one cure-all I was using (inefficiently, at that).