Full Status Effect Rework

[Fractyr]

These reworks are to tackle zero variety in builds

Every status effect should have powerful and unique performance in order to promote build diversity 

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Void 

• Removed Bullet Attractor effect; moved to Magnetic 
• New effect: Echo

Every void proc will cause each damage and status instance to have 10% chance to repeat itself up to 100% chance (max 10 stacks) 

• New Effect: Singularity

At 10 void stacks, the affected enemy will be primed with void energy. Upon death, primed enemies will collapse into a miniature black hole for 5 seconds, damaging and drawing in enemies within a 10m radius for 100% base void damage per second

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Physical Status

Slash

• No change for any effects

Impact

• No change for stagger and mercy threshold effect
• New Effect: Force
  Every impact proc increases critical damage taken by enemy by 20% up to 200% (max 10 stacks)

Puncture

• No change for damage reduction effect
• New Effect: Impale
  Every puncture proc adds 10% base puncture damage on hit (status duration refreshes on proc) (infinitely stacking)

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Primary Status

Toxin 

• No change for dps effect

• New Effect: Ailment
  Every toxin proc reduces enemy max health by 3% up to 30% (max 10 stacks)

• Every status proc refreshes duration (similar to heat) (status duration refreshes on proc) (infinitely stacking) 

Heat 

• No change for any effects 

Cold 

• Every cold proc reduces enemy speed by 10% up to 100% upon which they will freeze (max 10 stacks).  
• New Effect: Shatter

When reaching 10 stacks, the next cold proc will reset all cold proc stacks back to 0 and shatter the enemy for 20% max health cold damage 

Electric 

• No change for arc chain and dps effects

• Every status proc refreshes duration (similar to heat) (status duration refreshes on proc) (infinitely stacking) 
• New Effect: Pulse

Every 10 stacks applied will release a 6m radial discharge for 300% base electric damage (does not reset stacks) 

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Secondary Status 

Viral

• No change for any effects

Corrosive

• No change for armor reduction effect
• New Effect: Fragility
  Every corrosive proc increases damage dealt to immobilised enemies by 20% up to 200% (max 10 stacks)

Gas

• No change for aoe dps and aoe enlargement effects
• Every status proc refreshes duration (similar to heat) (status duration refreshes on proc) (infinitely stacking)
• Gas aoe will reapply gas status to affected targets, potentially allowing an infinite chain of gas procs

Magnetic

• No change for shield regeneration nullification effect and shield damage bonus effect

• New Effect: Current
  Every magnetic proc increases magnetic damage taken by 10% (status duration refreshes on proc) (infinitely stacking)
• New Effect: Magnetise:

When reaching 10 stacks, the next magnetic proc will form a 5m radius magnetic bubble around the affected enemy which redirects all projectiles towards themselves (bubble duration refreshes on magnetic proc)

Blast

• No change for accuracy reduction effect
• New Effect: Explosion
  Every blast proc will release a 6m radius explosion for 50% base blast damage (max 10 stacks)
• New Effect: Detonation
  When reaching 10 stacks, the next blast proc will reset all blast proc stacks back to 0 and release a 10m radius explosion which knocks down enemies and deals 500% base blast damage

Radiation

• Friendly fire damage increased to 50% per stack up to 500% (max 10 stacks)
• New Effect: Mania
  Enemies afflicted with radiation status will prioritise attacking their own faction and have attack speed, movement speed and fire rate increased by 100% 

[TKDancer]

while changes to status would be nice we simply need to trim out a lot of damage types, theres no way make them all properly balanced with so many effects to keep in mind SPECIALLY with the way enemy armor works

if enemy armor was changed to just being a separate health bar that works exactly like health shields(no regen), smth that just exists as an extra health layer with its own advantages/disadvantages against dmg types or at least made it a flat value that doesnt go up with levels(and had reasonable values) we could cut out like at least 5 damage types, more if we moved some of the effects around

like, for example the radiation change you propose, at least for guns, radiation damage would continue being used almost exclusively for the dmg bonus against alloy armor particularly vs targets that cant be armor stripped(or as just another status for CO type mods/abilities) with the status as minor CC most dont even think of, discrepancy of enemy damage output and enemy health is too high, we'd need much bigger values, and enemy armor would be confused armored enemies would be unable to really harm each other...

similarly, your change to electric would result in very little dmg vs high level armored targets, same for cold, toxin would remain doing little dmg vs armor too, gas would remain struggling, so and so forth

in the end enemy armor remains a plight on balance specially cause it limits the elements people want to use and the way combined elements work, cause if u wanna deal with armor, u either reduce it(corrosive and heat, or abilities) or bypass it(slash procs usually with viral) so if u go for the former you cant do electricity or toxic or cold, and if u wanna go for the latter you cant do toxic or cold and you need a way to apply slash consistently

[DrBorris]

Status stacking on-hit is a fundamentally flawed system that is holding back not only status as a consistent mechanic, but massively reduces the design space for weapons and build-craft. While reworking status effects has the potential to do something, it doesn't address how fundamentally unbalanced the status system is.

 

1 hour ago, TKDancer said:

while changes to status would be nice we simply need to trim out a lot of damage types, theres no way make them all properly balanced with so many effects to keep in mind SPECIALLY with the way enemy armor works

if enemy armor was changed to just being a separate health bar that works exactly like health shields(no regen), smth that just exists as an extra health layer with its own advantages/disadvantages against dmg types or at least made it a flat value that doesnt go up with levels(and had reasonable values) we could cut out like at least 5 damage types, more if we moved some of the effects around

I don't think turning armor into shields 2 is the only way to balance armor. The current state of armor has a gem of potential that takes it in a more interesting direction than just EHP. With the current metas of bypassing, stripping, and brute-forcing through armor I have seen a greater divergence in both builds and gameplay than any other protection system in the game. I don't think it was at all intentional, but this mechanic-driven armor has the potential to make the way we approach combat encounters more interesting. If anything I'd like to see DE double-down on this approach to armor, add more ways for us to "cheese" through "broken" armor as that has far more potential for good gameplay than another EHP layer.

As for removing status combinations. While I'm not against it, I don't think it is a hopeless goal to make all status effects good. But in order for that to happen the way we apply status needs to change, some status effects ignoring damage in favor of a binary hit system while others scale exclusively with damage (and some scale with both) is a doomed foundation.

Also rock/paper/scissors damage-type design is outdated and boring.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

Only rework for statuses we need that if majority are capped at 10, then some of the overused ones should get too, but in general it do more harm than good.killing many lesser popular options.

Puncture job is to reduce dmg one do= new allow it to stack up to 10 stacks- making enemies loose 90% of dmg output(issue with current game mechanics it still would mean 1 shot starting from certain lvl)

Impact staggers on proc and reduces the mercy kill bar, meaning we can mercy kill sooner no change needed, instead of mercy parodying with parazon i would ouf like that 10 stacks would give like 500% finisher dmg and open up to finishers.

Slash- bleed which bypasses armor= rework stack cap at 10 but increase the base dmg per tick(could kill many builds)

Blast- 10 stacks would reduce accuracy down to 90% but w/o your suggesting of aoe on top of aoe...

Other status effects are working efficient as. And on certain frames let them be niche good.

 

But in all seriousness to rework status we first need to have them be equaly strong. 

Like if we remove puncture stat from weapons most of the time it would not change a thing, removing impact would start affecting certain slaash focused build arround impact procs. But if we remove slash 90% of weapons and the op strats goes down the drain.

 

 

 

 

[TKDancer]

10 hours ago, DrBorris said:

I don't think turning armor into shields 2 is the only way to balance armor.

its 1 way and miles better than what it currently is, either a layer of yellow health that doesnt regen and is tougher against most damage types or just a flat value that doesnt get to scale with level so no double dipping on EHP scaling

of course we would need sweeping balance changes to accommodate that but it would allow for much better balancing as the huge discrepancy in EHP would be gone meaning DE could balance numbers with much more ease

10 hours ago, DrBorris said:

With the current metas of bypassing, stripping, and brute-forcing through armor I have seen a greater divergence in both builds and gameplay than any other protection system in the game

idk what game you're playing cause the game has devolved into using either viral + slash(with maybe heat) or corrosive +heat on weapons, most weapon mod loadouts look identical or almost identical, if you think making 10 out of 14 damage types see almost no use outside of lich/sister bonuses or as just fuel for CO in gun modding while damaging abilities NEED armor stripping just to do damage AT ALL is good game design and balanced i think your idea of balance is whack and should be ignored tbh

10 hours ago, DrBorris said:

If anything I'd like to see DE double-down on this approach to armor, add more ways for us to "cheese" through "broken" armor as that has far more potential for good gameplay than another EHP layer.

yeah, opinions of this user should be discarded, doubling down on bad game design is insane

 

 

9 hours ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Puncture job is to reduce dmg one do= new allow it to stack up to 10 stacks- making enemies loose 90% of dmg output(issue with current game mechanics it still would mean 1 shot starting from certain lvl)

Impact staggers on proc and reduces the mercy kill bar, meaning we can mercy kill sooner no change needed, instead of mercy parodying with parazon i would ouf like that 10 stacks would give like 500% finisher dmg and open up to finishers.

Slash- bleed which bypasses armor= rework stack cap at 10 but increase the base dmg per tick(could kill many builds)

Blast- 10 stacks would reduce accuracy down to 90% but w/o your suggesting of aoe on top of aoe...

Other status effects are working efficient as. And on certain frames let them be niche good.

 

But in all seriousness to rework status we first need to have them be equaly strong.

none of these changes would make status equally strong cause rn its impossible, in great part due to armor

puncture reducing enemy dmg doesnt matter cause if you're putting 10 stacks of puncture in an enemy something is wrong with your damage output, same for impact

slash will keep dominating because it fully ignores armor

enemy accuracy as a debuff #*!%ing sucks and would be less reliable than puncture while taking up 2 elements that are currently very important for the meta(cold for viral, heat for heat)

other status are also suffering a lot, when do you see people modding for electricity? people only care for impact now cause of the mods that make impact procs proc slash, toxic is only good vs unarmored corpus but even then people generally dont mod FOR it, magnetic is often ignored cause shields are so much weaker.. so on and so forth

[AntifreezeUnder0]

21 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

its 1 way and miles better than what it currently is, either a layer of yellow health that doesnt regen and is tougher against most damage types or just a flat value that doesnt get to scale with level so no double dipping on EHP scaling

of course we would need sweeping balance changes to accommodate that but it would allow for much better balancing as the huge discrepancy in EHP would be gone meaning DE could balance numbers with much more ease

idk what game you're playing cause the game has devolved into using either viral + slash(with maybe heat) or corrosive +heat on weapons, most weapon mod loadouts look identical or almost identical, if you think making 10 out of 14 damage types seeing almost no use outside of lich/sister bonuses or as just fuel for CO in gun modding while damaging abilities NEED armor stripping just to do damage AT ALL is good game design and balanced i think your idea of balance is whack and should be ignored tbh

yeah, opinions of this user should be discarded, doubling down on bad game design is insane

 

 

none of these changes would make status equally strong cause rn its impossible, in great part due to armor

puncture reducing enemy dmg doesnt matter cause if you're putting 10 stacks of puncture in an enemy something is wrong with your damage output, same for impact

slash will keep dominating because it fully ignores armor

enemy accuracy as a debuff #*!%ing sucks and would be less reliable than puncture while taking up 2 elements that are currently very important for the meta(cold for viral, heat for heat)

other status are also suffering a lot, when do you see people modding for electricity? people only care for impact now cause of the mods that make impact procs proc slash, toxic is only good vs unarmored corpus but even then people generally dont mod FOR it, magnetic is often ignored cause shields are so much weaker.. so on and so forth

Yea but OP suggestins that basicly asks for overkill on top already overkill. To make them equal, we just need to make enemies ultimate bullet spongers, where you actualy need use specific type of element or ips to actualy kill.  Like imagine if slash be useless against grineer or armored units. And youneed to use corrosive  to kill armored enemies. But game at this moment is at place where you can have no proper build and still overkill enemies. Either by game mechanics or just raw buff stacked dmg. 

And why rework all status, when there are pretty much 4 overall used statuses, viral , corrosive, heat and slash. 

People will always just pick easiest and efficient way. 

Rest of the stuses have their place in niche builds for those who goes for funny interactions. 

If one can use corrosive heat + slash and viral buff or slash + viral  and kill everything in 1 hit overkill, why bother going for specific status builts, since for casual play you just play for fun , and only when some highlvl enemies starts to appear specific builds take place. 

Its more of problem that enemies doesnt require things to be modded specificly for them in most cases up to certain lvl or just casual play. 

Heck even i can take corrosive heat stug and do 20 to 40 min survival going against corpus, which is what happens on average and still kill them.  Of course making magnetic toxin would be better, but why should i bother making fanction specific build if i can still kill with absurd choice of weapon.

 

[DrBorris]

21 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

yeah, opinions of this user should be discarded, doubling down on bad game design is insane

:)

[TKDancer]

43 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Yea but OP suggestins that basicly asks for overkill on top already overkill.

i dont think they are overkill at all, i just think they miss what makes a lot of the statuses and damage types in this game fail at having relevance, nominally: being unable to deal with armor and getting in the way of the set ups are are able to do so

like, even if ALL of their suggestions were put in place, the meta would mostly not change at all

43 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

And why rework all status, when there are pretty much 4 overall used statuses, viral , corrosive, heat and slash. 

People will always just pick easiest and efficient way.

yes, thats why i am of the opinion that we should remove a bunch of damage types(along with their statuses), rework enemy armor into smth that doesnt give them ever increasing DR on top of ever increasing health so we can do away with the huge discrepancy of EHP plaguing this game for a decade and crunch down numbers all around, from enemy health, to player dmg, to debuff values(including viral if it even continued to exist) etc etc

enemy armor is the source of so many issues in this game its quite silly really

 

41 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

:)

opinions of the user continue to be bad

[DrBorris]

3 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

opinions of the user continue to be bad

:(

[AntifreezeUnder0]

48 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

i dont think they are overkill at all, i just think they miss what makes a lot of the statuses and damage types in this game fail at having relevance, nominally: being unable to deal with armor and getting in the way of the set ups are are able to do so

like, even if ALL of their suggestions were put in place, the meta would mostly not change at all

yes, thats why i am of the opinion that we should remove a bunch of damage types(along with their statuses), rework enemy armor into smth that doesnt give them ever increasing DR on top of ever increasing health so we can do away with the huge discrepancy of EHP plaguing this game for a decade and crunch down numbers all around, from enemy health, to player dmg, to debuff values(including viral if it even continued to exist) etc etc

enemy armor is the source of so many issues in this game its quite silly really

 

opinions of the user continue to be bad

Well its 2 end stick. On 1 end enemies with armor tend to get 90% dr, on the other hand we get to 1 shot them still. And then there are eximuses which still can get 1 to 2 tap which have overguard on. By select few weps, and frame`s. 

Balanse shouldnt be about the status effects. but about  current trend`s frames have 1 ability which strips armor in aoe.

Grendel before rework with toxin buff and no armor strip with abilities, rather than having the armor dekay in gut, contributing to inreasing energy drain rate or health. Hit way harder than reworked grendel with armor strips, viral buffs and viral pulse. Of course his ball form aint the ultimate anymore too, but its sad to see that before rework you could 1 shot SP enemies with slamming into them and he did impact dmg.

With toxin buff could boost all  abilities dmg grendel did. And grendel ultimate truly was the ability to spit out 40 + enemies before cap, helping to deal with many enemies even easier :) toxin procs all the way.

 

 

 

 

[TKDancer]

19 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Well its 2 end stick. On 1 end enemies with armor tend to get 90% dr, on the other hand we get to 1 shot them still.

cause of power creep yeah tenno dmg numbers have become ridiculously big as DE has to allow players to kill armored enemies fast too, so unarmored content is a freaking joke because of that, 100% armor strip outdoes any single dmg vulnerability debuff vs armored enemies at high levels too due to DR being so high and despite we being able to deal with armored enemies fast, the issue of tons of dmg types having no purpose cause they cant deal with armor remains

 

enemy armor needs to be addressed, as this would mean the huge EHP discrepancies would be gone which would then allow numbers across the board to be reduced and better balance achieved

[AntifreezeUnder0]

8 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

cause of power creep yeah tenno dmg numbers have become ridiculously big as DE has to allow players to kill armored enemies fast too, so unarmored content is a freaking joke because of that, 100% armor strip outdoes any single dmg vulnerability debuff vs armored enemies at high levels too due to DR being so high and despite we being able to deal with armored enemies fast, the issue of tons of dmg types having no purpose cause they cant deal with armor remains

 

enemy armor needs to be addressed, as this would mean the huge EHP discrepancies would be gone which would then allow numbers across the board to be reduced and better balance achieved

Current way allows everyone to reach the overkill, if one chooses to. To adjust elements and mods when go against specific fanctions, or pick one overall good for everything up to certain lvls.

 

 

[TKDancer]

7 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Current way allows everyone to reach the overkill, if one chooses to.

and that choosing to entails leaving most damage types(and their statuses) without a reason to be used over the meta ones(viral, slash, heat, corrosive tho less so noawadays) and any warframe kit designed around doing ability damage without an innate armor stripping to be inherently flawed

 

either the core of the issue is fixed or we keep getting band aid tweaks every few years that never actually fix anything

7 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

To adjust elements and mods when go against specific fanctions, or pick one overall good for everything up to certain lvls.

except this doesnt happen, staggering majority of people do not mod for factions, do not use bane mods, most people just use general purpose builds that can deal with armor cause armor is the only real threat to our damage output in this game which generates loads of balance issues

if you actually the game to be in state where people need to mod for factions to be effective the core issue of enemy armor must be fixed and the game will then needs a big balance pass to account for that

[rhoenix]

My personal takeaway from issues with statuses and how they interact is similar to others' - I think Warframe would benefit from using separate bars for Shields and Armor for enemies that have to be stripped away before Health can be damaged as a general rule.

This means Puncture can be altered to cause Health damage through active Armor, and Impact can be altered to cause Health damage through active Shields.  Similarly, Toxic can directly affect Health through Shields, and Viral can be altered to do the same through Armor.  Other status types can then be altered to changed to deal with the interaction between Health, Armor, and Shields with enemies.

However, if an enemy has both Armor and Shield layers, they therefore become more dangerous, as both layers of defense cover for one another.  This creates the basis for a mechanic-based difficulty spike for any given faction, which I also think is a good thing.