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Core Issues Still Unfixed By Damage 2.0


MJ12
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-snip-

 

Look, as much as I'm loath to just dismiss criticism out of hand, I seriously want to ask you to read and comprehend what I'm saying. Because a lot of your 'criticism' demonstrates your complete inability to parse what I'm saying.

 

Literally, I can split your criticism into four kinds:

 

1. Dismissing the problem as a problem because there are inconvenient and annoying workarounds (bleed procs, must-have mods)

 

2. Attempting to use lore reasons to justify bad game mechanics (this is a terrible idea because you can always change the lore to reflect game mechanics, and as a game the lore should be subservient to gameplay-not that the lore reasons for Lephantis being really tough mean it should be invulnerable 90% of the time, or the Stalker should be capable of cancelling powers-we're Orokin-era superweapons and we can't cancel Warframe powers, why does he get to break the rules?)

 

3. Just outright being incapable of reading comprehension.

 

4. Dismissing problems out of hand with no explanation or reason.

Edited by MJ12
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I agree with some of what OP says.  However, I'd like to point out that Weapon Uselessness as the OP describes it didn't come back until DE used the mod sharing change as an excuse to NERF AND BREAK THE DROP TABLES AGAIN.  Before that, you used to be able to get lots of serration, hornets nest, killing blow, redirection, vitality, rush, marathon, etc., i.e., all the basic mods worth having.  I remember having with with all my starter weapons because I could get a good amount of those basic mods worth having.  Now, that's impossible.

 

An honorable mention to V. Utility Mods: Still Crap.   DE is wasting a great opportunity to inject a lot of fun and customization into the game because they just insist on making the utility mods into crap.  Utility mods are a great opportunity to remake the FEEL of a weapon.  But this opportuntiy is being wasted because the utility mods are BOOOOORRRRING.  Utility mods need to be awesome, not BOOOORRRRING.

 

II. Scaling Hilarity (OR: Stalker/Nightmare OP plz nerf)

 

About Nightmare Mode, the problem with Nightmare Mode is that you can't CHOOSE the challenge.  You are stuck with whatever challenge you get magically.  That Nightmare Mode presents a different game mechanic than what you would expect from Warframe is not a problem at all because some people like it.  I like no shield + energy drain.  It's the only time I like playing Ash, which I otherwise think is a boring Warframe.

 

But, I never play no shields + energy drain because I can't just go and play it when I want.  I have to jump through RNG hoops.

 

IV. The Illusion of Customization

 

I don't see a problem here.  There are a lot of weapons in the game.  You can get what you want here by just switching weapons.

Edited by ThePresident777
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DE, READ THE OP!!! IMPLEMENT IT NOW!!!

 

This game could be absolutely amazing if even half of what you wrote comes into being. The game would not be so insane for new players and the vets would still have their god-tier weapons and gear. This would make the game balanced and fun for all players. Nice job, pure gold.

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Remind me how many of those weapons you can build, solely with resources found in Mercury? None?

 

That's the point. Progression is utterly RNG-determined and that creates a worst-case scenario that is pretty terrible, and even the slightly-better-cases aren't very great.

 

I took a Lex to Earth, unranked.

 

Earth.

 

Not Mercury.

 

Two shots killed anything on the map, including Heavy Gunners. Napalms took 3 shots. Never went below 150 ammo at all.

 

You can buy Lex for 50k credits (a fair bit of grinding, but do-able).

Edited by Xylia
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Look, as much as I'm loath to just dismiss criticism out of hand, I seriously want to ask you to read and comprehend what I'm saying. Because a lot of your 'criticism' demonstrates your complete inability to parse what I'm saying.

 

Literally, I can split your criticism into four kinds:

 

1. Dismissing the problem as a problem because there are inconvenient and annoying workarounds (bleed procs, must-have mods)

 

2. Attempting to use lore reasons to justify bad game mechanics (this is a terrible idea because you can always change the lore to reflect game mechanics, and as a game the lore should be subservient to gameplay-not that the lore reasons for Lephantis being really tough mean it should be invulnerable 90% of the time, or the Stalker should be capable of cancelling powers-we're Orokin-era superweapons and we can't cancel Warframe powers, why does he get to break the rules?)

 

3. Just outright being incapable of reading comprehension.

 

4. Dismissing problems out of hand with no explanation or reason.

I understand what is being said, and its not in my taste. You frankly want easy mode and god tier anything, no need to whine and name call nay-sayers, especially when things are real fine as is with the new changes and are already getting better.

 

Also, if you lack the courage to fight without cheap tricks and just be a bully to a weak force, then find some please, and by the way, by we I assume you mean all warframes besides Loki pve and pvp related. If he can prevent warframe skills from being used against him, what's stopping the stalker, by design, from learning to find turn off switches on our frames? He is a frame that specializes in mimicry. He had Ash's, Excaliber's, and Rhino's attack before going Nys and Loki on the players. Plus, he doesnt even appear as often anymore (both a good and bad nerf).

 

Lephantis was made by the tenno faction and evolved while the random player-tenno slept. Do you expected a virus to say the same for however long the player-tenno slept? Rhetorical question, no need to answer that (it's no, btw ).

 

Just because I see your angle and prefer something else =/= poor reading comprehension. Just because someone is politely disagreeing about an opinion with another opinion doesn't call for rudeness. Opinions are like butt holes; we all have them and they all can stink, okay? Have some tolerance and respect, please and thank you.

 

As for "dismissing out of hand problems with no reason or explanation", maybe it is you who aren't comprehending what I typed. As for what was put originally, i'll elaborate.

 

Having Trouble, speak up. People will help you. It doesn't hurt to farm. you gain materials, mods and creds. A Lex is a brutal beginner sidearm with no mastery needed, easy buy. Plus, how is a weapon weak when you running with 3 other co-ops the can be of same experience fighting with you? 

 

KF_Kenobi:

"As for new players, I don't think the early game content is that hard for them. I gave it a whirl with an unranked Lato and an Unranked Mag, and I just didn't have much trouble with it. I didn't have zero trouble, but I had about what you would expect from going into a cooperative PvE game solo. This game is balanced toward 4 tenno cells, so there's just not a problem here. If someone is new and struggling, they can PUG it for a bit, or reach out to other players for help."

 

This is true. This is a game balanced around a team of 4. Now, back to the RNG/Mercury section, if farming is not up a player's alley due to impatience. specific mods as guarantee rewards per star node, gaining rarity closer to boss nodes, can be instead suggested for DE. It's already done with alert missions with materials, so why not regular missions other than Nightmares(to a degree)? The mod(s) they feel like is deemed necessary for planet progression is obtained within less time than a diligent farmer's method.

 

You were on to something with mastery perks, but adding that mastery mod for weapons isn't a good idea. One, its not a big enough push of a mod starting out. Two, you will need to master a strong amount of weapons to make the mod worth using. Three, having this mod over serration will not be beneficial unless at a high enough mastery, and, if used with serration/_____ mod setup will not benefit  the weapon fully depending on rank. Maybe if the mastery mod effect was a mastery perk then I'd root for you on that topic because, other than trade amount limits, mastery is something cosmetic past rank 7. Promote perks, not the mod. The mod is not the right answer.

 

*skipping stalker and J3k/lephantis, enough has been repeatedly said in this and past posts*

 

Nightmare mode is still fine as is currently. Its just a small challenge, and around a third to a half the mods in it's reward pool are niche mods (Constitution, Vigor, Stunning Speed, Ice Storm(cold dmg, must be in an element combo so the weapon do not lose damage)) whereas the rest are either somewhat rounded for overall use(Rending Strike for puncture and charge, Hammer Shot for crits builds, Ice Storm and Wildfire for magazine size, Accelerated Blast for Puncture and Fire Rate) and the remaining few are used more by players(Blaze, Lethal Torrent, Wildfire, Shred, Focus Energy). Blaze will only benefit most shotguns fully(Tigris is bleh in dps design and damage/faction match-up), Shred can be replaced by Speed trigger or Metal Auger, but is a nice in-between option for weapons that allow a drop in comparing fire rate increase for some ammo conserving. Wildfire and Focus Energy offer same or more element damage in compared scale of their regular counterparts with an added benefit of wepon utility. Lethal Torrent is, in my opinion, the only mod as a candidate for a must have on a weapon, next to Blaze. I would assume crits fans would say "Why not Hammer Shot?" and my reason why is that the derelicts mission with vaults are easier than even Venus Nightmares since infested need to melee you, so Heavy Caliber Is just as good. Up the base dmg, ups the crits too, Its just a matter of taste.

 

Weapon customizing exist, but not in the way you desire, but rather in choice and mod layout to match a person's playstyle/liking. Plus, the game is still in Beta, meaning more weapons are bound to come out and add more to the choices/mastery/etc. 

 

Pt5:5.a&b seems clear enough, moving on... similar to sentinels, except if their stat benefits can be boosted bt the mods on the current frame while still retaining their own sentinel mods, problem is solved so that there is mods space to allow for the regular sentinel mods more unique sentinel skill mods without a need for, i'll go as far to say, with out spending a single to deck out a powerful assist tool.

 

The codex is there for a reason, and if the mods-as-mission-node-rewards suggestion was included, then it further benefits the players, new and old.

 

 

Again, we're just spouting theories and opinions in a civil manner... well at least from my side(I can't speak for others, its rude).

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I understand what is being said, and its not in my taste. You frankly want easy mode and god tier anything

 

Your second sentence very firmly establishes your first one is flawed.

 

 

Also, if you lack the courage to fight without cheap tricks and just be a bully to a weak force, then find some please,

 

There is no "fight without cheap tricks" with the Stalker, unless you're extremely lucky and bait him out while in one of the handful of kits properly suited to fight him.

 

My first encounter with Stalker in Damage 2.0 was against him at Level 48. Before the Brakk nerf, I was using the Brakk as my Sidearm and my Warframe was Ash (580 Shields, 870 Health). My fight went approximately as follows:

1) I empty my Brakk's first magazine into the Stalker. His shield drops down to about 25%.

2) I get hit with a single Dread arrow, triggering a status effect that nearly wipes out all of my shield and reduces my health from full to ~500.

3) I'm teleported to a different facing by Stalker.

4) I empty my second, reloaded Brakk magazine into the Stalker. The last of his shield drops, and he falls down to about 90% health.

5) I'm slash-dashed and die.

 

I'm curious to hear how, exactly, I would be expected to deal with "SUDDENLY STALKER" if I were a new player, and what exactly I did wrong here? I couldn't run: It was Infested Extermination meaning I wasn't leaving the level until everything else died too. I wasn't using a particularly poor build: My Ash had fairly solid durability by non-Stalker standards, running (while also spec'd on my Ash) isn't an option with Stalker, my weapons were tailored for general damage (Blast, back before it was added to some enemy types' resistances, and the Brakk's damage for the main three were all, roughly, equal; my main was an Ignis I brought to level up against Infested so was no use here), etcetera. I didn't do anything wrong: Are you telling me Players specifically shouldn't run an Assassinate mission unless they're willing to suffer one unavoidable Revive loss, and / or never play any future missions outside Extermination until they can get a solid enough group to be able to reliably handle the Stalker?

 

Please, by all means, tell us where the "fun" in the new Stalker comes up for new players? As keep in mind I at least have been playing since Jan 2012: There are people here who have only been playing for a few days / weeks. They lack the same pool of Weapon, Warframe, Mod, and so-on availability. When the lights start to flicker are they supposed to pick between "Abort Mission" to save that Revive or "Burn Revive" (if they have any to spare for that run) to complete the level for what will most probably be a RNG reward?

 

 

 

 

Just because I see your angle and prefer something else =/= poor reading comprehension.

 

Except you're displaying hilariously poor reading comprehension at the same time.

 

 

 

 

Having Trouble, speak up. People will help you. It doesn't hurt to farm. you gain materials, mods and creds.

 

And if your computer / connection cannot handle playing cooperative Multiplayer? Or, until recently, couldn't access Multiplayer due to StictNAT? "The game's perfectly fine if you run in a group of experienced players!" "But StrictNAT-" "Oh, haha, poor schmuck. Sucks to be you."

 

 

 

 

A Lex is a brutal beginner sidearm with no mastery needed, easy buy. Plus, how is a weapon weak when you running with 3 other co-ops the can be of same experience fighting with you? 

Lex also costs ~50,000 Credits. Credits which you're also going to be using to upgrade Mods (especially Vitality, since you aren't getting Redirection any time soon), and you're going to need to acquire in 2000-3000 sized packages due to the fact that you're getting jack-all Alerts from Mercury alone. And again: It's fine if you stick with Grineer, but Corpus? You're going to be firing 3-4 times to kill a [5] Corpus Crewman in the first Venus level since you lack both Hornet Strike and the Potato to stuff a fair Mod spread on the weapon (your first several levels are going to be spent on Quickdraw, since every second you're spending reloading is a second those Corpus are stripping your non-Redirection shields).

 

 

And you're running in a group of the same experience? Great! The four of you, after having rushed a good twenty-or-so Mercury levels to get the Credits to buy Lex, now can concentrate fire on a [5] Crewman and kill them at a rate of one per group volley (or six before you need to reload!). And we know how well "Play with someone more experienced than you" always turns out (See: Look back on the Warframe forums a few months to see people saying that the game functions best as a cover-shooter and that if you think otherwise you're an eggsucker / looking back at the hilariously long train of complaints about Lokis rushing to the Hyena, murdering it before anyone's even close, then either aborting if there's no Control Module or causing the loot to time out before the rest of the party can catch up). If the community could rely on random strangers to actually be helpful instead of tell things like "Suck it, you're a crybaby who only wants to have your easy mode", then maybe "Run with a random pub-group" would be a viable suggestion.

 

This is true. This is a game balanced around a team of 4. Now, back to the RNG/Mercury section, if farming is not up a player's alley due to impatience.

Typically a mission will run you 5-25 minutes, depending on how fast you're rushing through it (Are you killing all the enemies that spawn? Are you breaking what Windows you can for extra hacking affinity? Are you breaking every crate and opening every locker for an improved Mat-chance?) and the mission-type (Exterminate 60 tends to go much faster than a Mobile Defense 3, for example). Mercury's missions tend to reward you under 5K per completion (hell, they typically reward you under 3K). While the low-end isn't that bad (dozen missions in an hour), I don't think "impatient" is the proper way to describe someone who doesn't want to spend potentially 4-8 hours grinding for enough pistol credits or the right Mod (I've done about two hours of Jupiter farming, for example, and I didn't find a Pathogen Rounds mod until an Alad V rush: Now imagine I'm not grinding for something like a bonus side-element's damage but a very basic mod like "Improved Shields").

 

 

 

specific mods as guarantee rewards per star node, 

"Removing the necessity of [x] mod after Mercury by making it innate is easy mode god-tier."

"Instead, why don't we give everyone [x] mod after Mercury by default?"

 

I love, BTW, how you tack this under the "impatient player" category. As though wanting to progress through the game at an enjoyable pace is a problem that must begrudgingly be accepted for less responsible members of the community.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Weapon customizing exist, but not in the way you desire, but rather in choice and mod layout to match a person's playstyle/liking. 

 

"Assuming, of course, your liking is in one specific build. I mean really, who tries bringing a Paris with them against Infested?"

 

 

 

(I can't speak for others, its rude).

 

 

You frankly want easy mode and god tier anything

[...]

Also, if you lack the courage to fight without cheap tricks and just be a bully to a weak force, then find some please,

 

Such kindness.

 

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Damage 2.0, an attempt to fix the current problems with have with the damage scaling from the new player to the veterans farming end game for a challenge. To create a diverse array of weaponry and to balance weapons in our arsenal to give flavor and to remove "God Tier" weapons capable of being used throughout the current factions and enemy.
 
So here's my thought on Damage 2.0 and i'll break it down section by section;
 
Weapons:
 
Damage 2.0's complexity to weapon stats are something of a breath taker on paper, giving us variety and to actually have us think how each load out should be set up according to what we're fighting. in reality the same problems we faced in damage 1.0 still exist in 2.0.
 
The Stats of certain weapons are so outshined by others making them completely obsolete.
 
Why use the Dual Heat sword when there are much better weapons like the Orthos/ Orthos Prime? The truth is some weapons are just absolutely useless due to their current stats/ Pure cosmetic or are used for their throwing capabilities I.E. Dual Zoren/ Dual Ichor. 
 
No one uses Single sword weapons because their still useless, unless their specifically  focus'd on to at least bring them in their own tier of usefulness or to at least get buffed to be recognized would be not only groovy but very appreciated.
 
The Multiplicative system that they currently have for certain mods is by far unimpressive.
 
For example
 
You have a sword with a  20% Crit Chance applying a max rank True steel (60% Crit chance increase) will increase your crit chance to 32% which isn't too bad but not too good either since other factors will have to come into play to give it an impressive output.
 
Status Chance is by far the #1 Culprit for this, The Status chance Mods have an extremely Low percent chance for the Base percentage of their crit weapons, I, as well as many other people in the community were dissapointed when the Jaw Sword's status chance percentage was dropped to 15%.
 
(My Argument was to not keep it at 50% but to actually give it a higher base status percentage between 15 and 50 percent.)
 
 
Mods:
 
This is a touchy Subject, Certain mods are useless certain mods are useful, I literally haven't found a use for the following mods yet because of these factors:
 
The Factors:
 

1) Too low percentage
2) I can't predict when i can use this without sacrificing a mod slot
3) Why should I have A When I can use B and have a better outcome?
4) I don't understand when I will ever use this.

 
The Mods:
 

Warm Coat
 
Reason: Unless I can outright predict when there will be a cryogenic leak in the ships systems this is a waste of a mod slot and I'm sure quite a few people can agree with me.
 
Any Resistance Mod
 
Reason: Why use this when I can easily just beef up my Armor/health/Shields???
 
Marathon/Quick Rest
 
Reason: The Stamina system has puzzled me since the first day I played Warframe and I stand by my opinion that Stamina Max and Recharge has no use as of right now.
 
Pistol/Shotgun/Sniper/Rifle Scavenger
 
Reason: 2 words: Mutation Mod for the sole purpose of frame rate drop.
 
Reflection/Reflex Guard/Parry
 
Reason: Blocking is by far the most useless thing in this game period, I have attempted to use it and It doesn't do jack squat.
 
Fast Deflection
 
Reason: Waste of a mod slot in my opinion, Unless you have a massive shield pool and you want it to recharge fast instead of ducking for cover to let your shields recharge like every other Halo Player has done, I don't see a purpose for this.
 
Fortitude
 
Reason 1: See Fast Deflection
 
Reason 2: I've yet to see the knockdown resistance in action, I've tested this in the Dueling Room, In game with Ancients and Grineer Heavy Units with no results. Unless there isn't a indicator of some sort to actually tell you that you just resisted the knockdown.
 
Intruder
 
Reason: include more complex puzzles to decypher than this could prove useful but even than, this is really is a waste of a warframe slot.
 
Undying Will
 
Reason: Unless you have incompetent team mates I really don't see the point in this.
 
Ammo Stock//Ammo Stock/Trick Mag
 
Reason: Ammo Mutation Mods.
 
Hush/Suppress
 
Reason: Purely Cosmetic, makes your gun sound different and sometimes cooler hence a waste of a Mod slot considering the Stealth mechanics of this game are very bare, Uninteresting and Unrewarding.
 
True Steel
 
Reason: Each Melee Weapon has a very low critical Chance, What's the point in this when Loki and Ash have a 100% Critical Strike Change plus a large Critical Damage Modifier.
 
(I'm probably missing a few due to the fact that I just don't have them)

 
 
As mentioned above I feel that some of the unique enemies require reworks.
 



Pt3:

 

Nowhere am I complaining about boss difficulty. I am commenting on player disempowerment, which looks similar but is almost completely different. There are difficult bosses which do not disempower the player. Conversely, there are easy bosses which disempower the player. Lephantis has a DPS cap and is invulnerable for 90% of the fight, which is actually completely lame. If it was just incredibly tough instead, it'd be a lot more fun to fight him, because you wouldn't have to wait for him to decide to open up so you could take out the last 1% of his health. If the Stalker used his own abilities instead of canceling them, he would be much more fun to fight. Disempowering a player is an easy way to make a boss challenging, but it also makes them boring and unfun. Giving an enemy a lot of options, on the flipside, all of which can potentially counter your own options, makes the fight much more interesting.

 

I agree with MJ12's comment on the disempowerment.

 

 

Let's talk about The Stalker.

 

 

I find the entire way the stalker works to be utterly stupid and boring.

 

here's my few suggestions for The Stalker.

 

 

1) Give him unique abilities, according to his lore he isn't a tenno than why is he using tenno abilities?

 

2) Add a sub-cinematic if you're defeated let's say, he "Kills you" You fake your death and you gain a debuff for the rest of the mission where your frame is badly damaged and some features are nerfed/unusable for the remainder of the mission. Hell throw that suggestion to be a solo only 

 

3)Give him more messages, You defeated him last time? He wants revenge for being defeated in combat aswell as repentance for the last boss u defeated. He defeated you last time? He ponders on the fact ur still alive and vows to finish the job this time

 

 

 

I don't feel comfortable going into the topic of passive mastery abilities for frames and Weapons because I don't have a concrete opinion if this would be a benefit or making the game easier.

Edited by ThatShadyGuy
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-snip-

The 2nd sentence is a follow-up to explain what I find distasteful. Not flawed. My comprehension is fine. I'm saying that incorporating a strong sum or the ideas laid by the OP will make the game too easy and boring even for new players. Moving on...

As for your stalker experience... guess you need to learn to dodge.

And if your computer / connection cannot handle playing cooperative Multiplayer?.
There's little room for "what ifs". There are app that will say whether or not your pc/ net is able to handle the game before obliviously playing. StrictNAT hasn't stopped me from join multiplayer groups. Takes a few tries a run unless I chane runs quickly, but my simple modem does real fine, not to mention that its a beta. Making the game better for moderate pcs like mine and low-spec internet like mine is something I look forward. I may work, but its not Fios pay.

Lex also costs ~50,000 Credits. Credits which you're also going to be using to upgrade Mods (especially Vitality, since you aren't getting Redirection any time soon), and you're going to need to acquire in 2000-3000 sized packages due to the fact that you're getting jack-all Alerts from Mercury alone. And again: It's fine if you stick with Grineer, but Corpus? You're going to be firing 3-4 times to kill a [5] Corpus Crewman in the first Venus level since you lack both Hornet Strike and the Potato to stuff a fair Mod spread on the weapon (your first several levels are going to be spent on Quickdraw, since every second you're spending reloading is a second those Corpus are stripping your non-Redirection shields).y

Farm. Level up. Work at it. Things aren't gonna be spoon fed to us. Maybe I was just blessed, or it could be natural that working to be good at something draws in people who like what you do your own way and then you begin to play in groups.

rushed a good twenty-or-so Mercury levels to get the Credits to buy Lex

Don't rush levels. You only shortcut yourself and making it that much harder to progress. This game is huge, so it cannot be rushed. That's another thing, too,(Merely an off topic gripe seen in many game) but why is it that many players are wanting to burn through big games very fast? I mean I only started noticing this as far back as Vindictus and the occasional level 60 with low stats and titles and gear hops on the boat and the first thing they type out of their fingers is "please don't kick me, i'm good" I digress... On Topic... from past games to games in the future, players have to learn to not rush things.

And we know how well "Play with someone more experienced than you" always turns out

Speak for youself. I used a Mag, then a rhino w a Fragor and could still keep up w a few Lokis(and that was before vanguard helms) that were shortcutting them selves by rushing. Plus, we have team bypass doors. Rushing took a big nerf when they implemented that.

Typically a mission will run you 5-25 minutes, depending on how fast you're rushing through it ... Mercury's missions tend to reward you under 5K per completion (hell, they typically reward you under 3K). While the low-end isn't that bad (dozen missions in an hour), I don't think "impatient" is the proper way to describe someone who doesn't want to spend potentially 4-8 hoursgrinding for enough pistol credits or the right Mod (I've done about two hours of Jupiter farming, for example, and I didn't find a Pathogen Rounds mod until an Alad V rush: Now imagine I'm not grinding for something like a bonus side-element's damage but a very basic mod like "Improved Shields").

Bring Nekros nextime if you yourself are having trouble mod hunting, or ask me. I'm on winter vacation and can now binge a bit and farm the game and give away some mod for FREE(I still need to farm the Void and OD though but I'll give if i got it.). It in-game data, not worth anything irl, lol, As for others, no one shouldn't be expecting X mod to drop at the tip of a hat. It's RNG. Second, It's a bit unhealthy to be pursuing X mod for too long a time in one sitting. It may be winter, but I do know what the sun looks like.

(Are you killing all the enemies that spawn? Are you breaking what Windows you can for extra hacking affinity? Are you breaking every crate and opening every locker for an improved Mat-chance?) and the mission-type (Exterminate 60 tends to go much faster than a Mobile Defense 3, for example).

If it makes the warframe stronger, why not.

"Assuming, of course, your liking is in one specific build. I mean really, who tries bringing a Paris with them against Infested?"

2.0 is designed to give players a choice to not really on only one weapon for all faction, even though we are given 3 build slots so that we can steer a loved weapon to any faction(I bring dual ethers everywhere. doesn't stop me). As for bringing a paris(which can rock with and without crits focused build) to infested missions, done it w a paris prime. I used a build focused around a thunderbolt mod and blast dmg. The bow and sniper gun are support weapons and excel as such. Blast and t-bolt is a great way for offering crowd control while boasting that prime swag(just don't die, lol).

"Such kindness."

Why thank you very much, good kind sir! No promises, but I try. b-_^ Edited by WarGrylls
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The 2nd sentence is a follow-up to explain what I find distasteful. 

And yet you use the exact same arguments against me. Here's the thing: If the vast majority of people in the thread are not coming to the conclusion "You just want to be spoonfed your Easyframe experience" (even if they disagree with the arguments MJ12 is providing), and you're effectively the only person who sees both MJ12, me, and other users in this thread going "ME WANT EASY MODE", it's much more probable that you're coming to a kneejerk reaction than it is everyone else in the thread can't read.

 

I also find it funny that you're jumping from the argument "Obviously you are upset with the Stalker because your cheap tricks don't work anymore" to "Obviously you're upset with the Stalker because you just suck at playing." Real top community support, Grylis.

 

"I'm having trouble with this boss that keeps forcing me to abort missions / burn revives. Here's the build I use, and how my fight typically goes. Any help?"

"Suck less."

 

The StrictNAT thing is especially worth note as I have a list of about fifteen friends (from amongst 10 assorted friends in addition to a Clan of <100 persons) who were absolutely isolated from Multiplayer until recent updates because of StrictNat. If anything you're setting a pretty big precedent for your debate in this thread. Said precedent being "It doesn't bother me ergo your pleb problems are no concern of mine."

 

Your response to the "rush to get enough credits" comment doesn't even make sense. "You know that equipment you want to buy so that you can explore new tilesets, fight new enemies, expand your gameplay experience? Purposefully put it off as long as you can. I don't understand why you want to spend only a few hours getting enough credits to buy the proper equipment to advance to the next planet, instead of spending ten or more because you're going as slow as possible." The same applies for your "keep up with Loki" comment which shows you're basically doing nothing but sniping at a handful of points thinking "Maybe if I take down one small part of the post the whole house of cards will fall!"

 

Your response is just all kinds of wrong, really. It reads like the Walmart and McDonalds Cost-Saving Advice for Part-Time Associates. "So you and your friends are just starting Warframe, and having trouble getting the equipment and Mods to enjoy the game past Vor? Getting Credits for Fusion? Well, here's some tips. First, remember to bring your Nekros so as to increase the Mod Drop rate. For getting Credits fast, take your time and stretch out the Mercury experience as long as you can. I suggest finding a level with the lowest Credit completion reward so that you can really get the full thrill from the Planet. If Stalker appears while you're farming Survival, try to suck less for just a few minutes. And if one of your friends is having StrictNAT issues preventing them from playing in the group, or high Latency, suggest getting an improved rig and internet service provider."

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-snip-

"And yet you use the exact same arguments against me. Here's the thing: If the vast majority of people in the thread are not coming to the conclusion "You just want to be spoonfed your Easyframe experience" (even if they disagree with the arguments MJ12 is providing), and you're effectively the only person who sees both MJ12, me, and other users in this thread going "ME WANT EASY MODE", it's much more probable that you're coming to a kneejerk reaction than it is everyone else in the thread can't read."

1. I believe starting a sentence with 'and' or 'so' isn't proper.

2. You assume I'm talking to/about the whole community when I'm going 1:1, saying that we aren't the professionals. Saying their methods are flawed is an insult as a supporter. They aren't looking for yes-men, that is for true, but, if players and supporters are gonna address to a company, be straight forward and not informal, sarcastic, and etc and more. 

3. I prefer not to have words put in my mouth. ("everyone else in the thread can't read" ) <-This was never said or implied. Its a Teen/Mature game, I'm 100% confident that players here can read. 

 

"I also find it funny that you're jumping from the argument "Obviously you are upset with the Stalker because your cheap tricks don't work anymore" to "Obviously you're upset with the Stalker because you just suck at playing." Real top community support, Grylis."(it's 2 "L"s btw, Grylls)

"I'm having trouble with this boss that keeps forcing me to abort missions / burn revives. Here's the build I use, and how my fight typically goes. Any help?"

"Suck less."

 

 

You speak as if "Drachyench"="community", and its not(fyi). I replied specifically to you to dodge, not "Suck less" due to a fair amount of players who, at rare times, stand still and shoot only. It's a critique, not an 'appendage'. Don't take it so hard. I make sure I can take a hit, run, shoot, strike(mostly with spin attacks, more mobile), shift distances, dodge, and all this to keep my advantage and it works. Also, look at past topics about the stalker changes. Snowglobe, Iron Skin, Invisibility, Shade, and other duration based methods are the tricks. 

 

The StrictNAT thing is especially worth note as I have a list of about fifteen friends (from amongst 10 assorted friends in addition to a Clan of <100 persons) who were absolutely isolated from Multiplayer until recent updates because of StrictNat. If anything you're setting a pretty big precedent for your debate in this thread. Said precedent being "It doesn't bother me ergo your pleb problems are no concern of mine."

 

StrictNAT has been a problem for online games for quite a while, and I have been a victim of strictNAT in the past, so I am in no way declaring that I'm above anyone(we die just everything else). Having a workaround/solution is helpful although I still have hangups like having to re-enter a party joining up to 3x-4x and needing that same max amount to join a friend's party.  I still tackle strictNAT like anyone else so in no way i'll ever call others 'plebs'(<-I honestly don't know what that means, but sounds derogatory).

 

Your response to the "rush to get enough credits" comment doesn't even make sense. "You know that equipment you want to buy so that you can explore new tilesets, fight new enemies, expand your gameplay experience? Purposefully put it off as long as you can. I don't understand why you want to spend only a few hours getting enough credits to buy the proper equipment to advance to the next planet, instead of spending ten or more because you're going as slow as possible." The same applies for your "keep up with Loki" comment which shows you're basically doing nothing but sniping at a handful of points thinking "Maybe if I take down one small part of the post the whole house of cards will fall!"

 

It's called a pace; go too fast and you may not be prepared. Nothing wrong with going a bit slow in a game this large in size and always changing (plus, this is a game, not an..well y'know). Also, try to refrain from making assumption based on your own experience as if it'd apply to everyone else experience. Being able to effectively kill a room of enemies hard and fast, pick up drops, and THEN keep up with people who skip gains(they got their own goals, too...boss resources may be more important to them at that moment), if that is a player's choice, can work for those farming up necessary means to progress. We cannot forget that players need mods as well as mats, so if the host is a loki rushing for the mats, find a different party, and take their impact on the play experience to a grain of salt. 5mins compared to past play time amount and potential future amounts isn't much.

 

Your response is just all kinds of wrong, really. It reads like the Walmart and McDonalds Cost-Saving Advice for Part-Time Associates. "So you and your friends are just starting Warframe, and having trouble getting the equipment and Mods to enjoy the game past Vor? Getting Credits for Fusion? Well, here's some tips. First, remember to bring your Nekros so as to increase the Mod Drop rate. For getting Credits fast, take your time and stretch out the Mercury experience as long as you can. I suggest finding a level with the lowest Credit completion reward so that you can really get the full thrill from the Planet. "

 

This analogy makes little sense, if any. you again assume I'm talking to the community when I am specifically talking to you, seeing as you may have been playing this game for quite a while(as early as January). They are advises that can be effective based on what experience level is suiting them at that time.

 

" If Stalker appears while you're farming Survival, try to suck less for just a few minutes. And if one of your friends is having StrictNAT issues preventing them from playing in the group, or high Latency, suggest getting an improved rig and internet service provider."

 

Bravo, btw, on the using of red herring tactics about my post. That Stalker talk for you specifically to be mobile in your play-style was advice and to be taken to a grain of salt, but if you are this insecure, then I feel sorry of your life choices in your past, present, and future. As for "MY options I am exploring for killing MY strictNAT issues" in particular is not for others. Everyone has an individual issue and method of workaround/solution that they themselves can explore while the game is becoming more available for a wider range of types of internet accessing means. Again, please be less insecure and more confident and open-minded in yourself.

NarrowMinded.png

Warframes look for this skill, not humans.

Edited by WarGrylls
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I agree with most of the OP's ideas.

 

I don't think I like the idea of the mastery mod. It just becomes the must-have replacement mod for Serration.

 

I'm thinking Multi-shot is only slightly less "must have" than Serration for even medium level gameplay. Maybe even more. It's effectively a damage multiplier just like Serration. I'd dump it as well.

 

I think multipliers for weapon damage, shields, health, etc, should be a function of weapon or frame level, plus (or times, I dunno, I'm not high level) Mastery level. Makes Mastery level useful and gives people a way to get high level damage without basic damage mods.

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So WarGrylls, you're not talking about the community, when this thread is mainly to solve problems which will exist for new players, which we are having a constant influx of and wish to have a higher retention rate of because that's what keeps the game going? You're just talking about a guy who's played a lot and acting like he's having those issues with getting past Mercury.

 

Do you have an allergy to the idea of user-friendliness or proper pacing? I mean your counterargument for everything is "the game might get easier for new players! THIS IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD." This is literally your counterargument to everything. "Well, you should know what mods don't suck on your guns instead of mods being balanced." "Well, Stalker should kill you most of the time because he hunts Tenno." "Well, Lephantis is tough, so he should have invulnerability frames instead of literally any mechanic to make something tough instead of invulnerability frames". (You know what also has killed Tenno teams before? Phorid. Guess he should also be able to cancel all your powers and have 50 million HP and shields that instantly regen! Actually, wait no, he's killed Tenno teams, he should be 4x as tough and deadly as Stalker).

 

Think of an actual counterargument. Hey, I'll even give you a few. Don't try to use them, because if I'm giving them to you you can be sure I've considered them and have rebuttals.

 

"Perhaps there may be alternate fashions to solve these issues?" (spoilers: Yes, but this is literally the one that takes the least work. If you want one that takes a ton of work to get to the same result, look at Zamboni's thread.)

 

"This might destroy weapon balance and mod balance yet again." (spoilers: It probably won't, because if you balance towards the high end staying the same all it'll do is buff weaker weapons. Similarly, if almost nobody is using the crappy utility mods making them worthwhile isn't going to ruin any balance.)

 

"Mod consolidation may actually greatly reduce the number of mods, thus ruining the trade economy." (spoilers: This is 100% true. Unfortunately, it's necessary if you're going to be making a loot list that actually gives you loot instead of 'yawn, another Sentinel Precept/Thing I Don't Care About' and thus is expandable to give more interesting loot. Besides, there's a ton of mod ideas that might actually be viable to include as potential drops now that you can burn something like 20-40% of the mods that are basically "like X but for a different Sentinel/Weapon".

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3. I prefer not to have words put in my mouth. ("everyone else in the thread can't read" ) <-This was never said or implied. Its a Teen/Mature game, I'm 100% confident that players here can read. 

And yet your responses continue to show that while you aren't saying nobody here can read, you sure as heck are hoping this to be the case.

 

Case in point, "I'm not saying you suck, I'm just saying you guys need to learn how to dodge, should stop using cheap tricks such as your Warframes' iconic Warframe powers, and please find some courage". Now, if someone can only read one post at a time and otherwise has the memory of a goldfish, then yes the first part of your train of thought works. I'm also, on that note, fairly certain you're going to make a ton of friends by outright telling the community (especially in regards to new players) that they're cowards interested in being bullies for having the audacity to use their Warframe abilities and Sentinels, and that your suggestion to them is to "find some courage".

 

Though by all means, please feel free to keep back-pedaling and making claims such as "Drachyench has even come close to implying he is the Community", or talking about how we should be less "informal and sarcastic" when that was exactly what OP avoided.

 

EDIT: And as a note. If your use of "tricks" is instead referring to the current "tricks" to beat Stalker instead (something that, all the same, you were calling cowardly), my apologies. You are not saying that using Warframe abilities or Sentinels is terrible. You're merely giving new players advice that is going to get their Tenno killed after the Stalker dispel-stuns them for wasting their energy.

Edited by Drachyench
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So WarGrylls, you're not talking about the community, when this thread is mainly to solve problems which will exist for new players, which we are having a constant influx of and wish to have a higher retention rate of because that's what keeps the game going? You're just talking about a guy who's played a lot and acting like he's having those issues with getting past Mercury.

 

Do you have an allergy to the idea of user-friendliness or proper pacing? I mean your counterargument for everything is "the game might get easier for new players! THIS IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD." This is literally your counterargument to everything. "Well, you should know what mods don't suck on your guns instead of mods being balanced." "Well, Stalker should kill you most of the time because he hunts Tenno." "Well, Lephantis is tough, so he should have invulnerability frames instead of literally any mechanic to make something tough instead of invulnerability frames". (You know what also has killed Tenno teams before? Phorid. Guess he should also be able to cancel all your powers and have 50 million HP and shields that instantly regen! Actually, wait no, he's killed Tenno teams, he should be 4x as tough and deadly as Stalker).

 

Think of an actual counterargument. Hey, I'll even give you a few. Don't try to use them, because if I'm giving them to you you can be sure I've considered them and have rebuttals.

 

"Perhaps there may be alternate fashions to solve these issues?" (spoilers: Yes, but this is literally the one that takes the least work. If you want one that takes a ton of work to get to the same result, look at Zamboni's thread.)

 

"This might destroy weapon balance and mod balance yet again." (spoilers: It probably won't, because if you balance towards the high end staying the same all it'll do is buff weaker weapons. Similarly, if almost nobody is using the crappy utility mods making them worthwhile isn't going to ruin any balance.)

 

"Mod consolidation may actually greatly reduce the number of mods, thus ruining the trade economy." (spoilers: This is 100% true. Unfortunately, it's necessary if you're going to be making a loot list that actually gives you loot instead of 'yawn, another Sentinel Precept/Thing I Don't Care About' and thus is expandable to give more interesting loot. Besides, there's a ton of mod ideas that might actually be viable to include as potential drops now that you can burn something like 20-40% of the mods that are basically "like X but for a different Sentinel/Weapon".

I'm merely saying that having a game too beginner friendly will make a boring failure of a product because it lacks in keeping their attention, and talks of fixing anything is up to DE, not the players. Unless you yourself have made a popular game or have some background in professional game design then its straight up not worth a 2nd look at, especially when its not in their direction.

 

By the by, look up "red herring" because that's what is being rebounded back to me, words twisted out of what I am saying to be used against me and not meaning the same thing. 

 

If a player fights something boss worthy with little effort and on their own, then what is the reward for the player? An easy ride with little to no accomplishment. That is BORING. Period.

 

The player gets the mods they need consistently, but how are they gonna rank it up meet any requirements if they cant afford to lose the needed mods? Answer: Use mods that they feel aren't necessary, or mods that suck to them(to an extreme extent)--oh but they cannot afford credit amount for their fusions... sell what is deemed junk and obtain more mods. The mods have a good purpose, one way or another. Consolidating mods will slow down fusion efforts and credit gains and will open up a different problem: need for an abundant fusion cores and a change in definition of 'rarity',

 

I'm not that good of a player myself and am able to take on the stalker, and I have gone 2 for 3 since Update 11 hit. I loss once in this 2.0 system and got back up, not give up and whined "I lost  a rez point". We get 4 per frame per day. As for Lephantis, he/she/it's not meant be solo'd in a co-op game. Period.

 

And yet your responses continue to show that while you aren't saying nobody here can read, you sure as heck are hoping this to be the case.

 

Case in point, "I'm not saying you suck, I'm just saying you guys need to learn how to dodge, should stop using cheap tricks such as your Warframes' iconic Warframe powers, and please find some courage". Now, if someone can only read one post at a time and otherwise has the memory of a goldfish, then yes the first part of your train of thought works. I'm also, on that note, fairly certain you're going to make a ton of friends by outright telling the community (especially in regards to new players) that they're cowards interested in being bullies for having the audacity to use their Warframe abilities and Sentinels, and that your suggestion to them is to "find some courage".

 

Though by all means, please feel free to keep back-pedaling and making claims such as "Drachyench has even come close to implying he is the Community", or talking about how we should be less "informal and sarcastic" when that was exactly what OP avoided.

 

EDIT: And as a note. If your use of "tricks" is instead referring to the current "tricks" to beat Stalker instead (something that, all the same, you were calling cowardly), my apologies. You are not saying that using Warframe abilities or Sentinels is terrible. You're merely giving new players advice that is going to get their Tenno killed after the Stalker dispel-stuns them for wasting their energy.

You sure like to twist word and feed people lies, huh? Check my last reply: I'm 100% sure we all CAN read(and do not dare to wish worse on others). Simply put: I don't know/judge a poster's intelligence so how dare you claim to know me and judge me.

 

Secondly, how is someone who's level of difficulty is equally based on the target player's setups too hard? If his setup is equal to the player, and the player is able to be killed, then the stalker is able to be killed as well. A=b, b=c, and a=c. Easy. Plus the player, if not solo'n around on encounter, has up to three other frames at most to aid in the brawl. So saying he's overpowered is a mystery in common sense.

 

 

Probably a good idea to step away from debating any point felldian makes.

Fixed it for ya, and you're welcome.

Edited by WarGrylls
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You sure like to twist word and feed people lies, huh?

 

 

Also, if you lack the courage to fight without cheap tricks and just be a bully to a weak force, then find some please,

 

Also, look at past topics about the stalker changes. Snowglobe, Iron Skin, Invisibility, Shade, and other duration based methods are the tricks. 

 

 

Again, either you're saying that the "cheap tricks" are things like Snowglobe, Iron Skin, Invisibility, etcetera, or you're suggesting those as the means of defeating the Stalker despite those blatantly failing to work as they get Dispeled by the Stalker, typically stunning you and altogether wasting energy better spent on something like a Direct-Damage attack.

 

This is also disregarding that your solution to the Stalker essentially boils down to "If you run into the Stalker in a non-group game it's your own damn fault and you got what's coming to you", which is humorous for two reasons:

1) You're blatantly doing yet another "Peon concerns!", once more in regard to people (new people at that) who play Solo.

2) You are pretending that "Run around like a chicken with your head cut off while the rest of your party takes advantage of Stalker's extremely narrow-minded Aggro" is fun for all parties. It may just be me, but I'm fairly certain that I don't play Warframe to run around in circles until my group gets around to killing the angry Orokin Mall Cop allowing me to continue playing the game.

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@WarGrylls

 

Dude Have you not noticed that people are agreeing with the two people you're arguing with?

 

The fact that you're continuing this "heated discussion" astounds me. Why? I don't know.

Easy, Someone has to take the brunt of a force and be the devil's adovcate for a possible opposite side. We may not be able to change a game from the outside in but no doubt that these topics are looked at by DE. Doing so will cause readers to read the pages and learn what can possibly be a balanced solution/workaround that can benefit this game. One person's Idea is from one person's take when a group's idea can be from a group's take. It'll carry more influence. Check the last posts players and I have made that were agreed on that can fix a core issue or two in the game that can look at:

Making Mastery more worth it(I agree that its a bit lackluster)

Easing mod acquiring difficulties with mission rewards.(someone agreed to that idea I squeaked in)

Its been a heated discussion but we are saying what can be better for this game with this heckuva 100-vs-1 debate. If i gotta act a lil' nasty and stab at smart minds, then let's begin. I got my IV and blood bag ready for the stab backs. b-_^ This is an amazing game that is supported by great devs and open-minded supporters that equally love this product. Good threads like these are interesting, personally, because it's a great chance for anyone to voice in and weight options and possible outcomes back and forth. It's eh same stuff teh devs are doing day in and day out on the clock. We aren't inside DE's building to know the works and plans so this is like a mock/makeup effort from regular joes and-- darn this getting wordy...

 

tl;dr-: I'm passionate about many things that impact this game, even if how I show it is a bit brash.

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IV is so true it hurts.

Even with Damage 2.0 you need certain builds: corrosive vs Grineer, you need to get magnetic vs Corpus and you Serration and multishot. Every. Single. Time*.
 

Stuff that is mandatory shouldn't pretend to be a choice. Serration (and similar) should auto-apply as you rank up the weapon (reduce the maximum energy in the gun accordingly). The same goes for Redirection.

 

*except the Penta.

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Again, either you're saying that the "cheap tricks" are things like Snowglobe, Iron Skin, Invisibility, etcetera, or you're suggesting those as the means of defeating the Stalker despite those blatantly failing to work as they get Dispeled by the Stalker, typically stunning you and altogether wasting energy better spent on something like a Direct-Damage attack.

 

This is also disregarding that your solution to the Stalker essentially boils down to "If you run into the Stalker in a non-group game it's your own damn fault and you got what's coming to you", which is humorous for two reasons:

1) You're blatantly doing yet another "Peon concerns!", once more in regard to people (new people at that) who play Solo.

2) You are pretending that "Run around like a chicken with your head cut off while the rest of your party takes advantage of Stalker's extremely narrow-minded Aggro" is fun for all parties. It may just be me, but I'm fairly certain that I don't play Warframe to run around in circles until my group gets around to killing the angry Orokin Mall Cop allowing me to continue playing the game.

 

In a way, no and yes about the tricks. The Stalker was way weak before because of what players can do to him, but now that he's matching us in playing field conditions while still being equally difficult based on our setups since pre-U11, and people want him nerfed? His appearance chances have been 2.5% so that it's no too big of a punishment for wasting a boss once for crucial materials. This brings up another thing. I never said it's not a player's fault and they get what's coming to them. It's RNG and design mechanics on how the stalker is coaxed out. As for "running like  a chicken w it's head cut off as a distraction/bait while your friends kill the stalker ninja-like", that sounds like a good strategy that I haven't thought of, but I'm more of a hit'n'run guy(more hit than run) and break the stalker down in nice chunks.

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IV is so true it hurts.

Even with Damage 2.0 you need certain builds: corrosive vs Grineer, you need to get magnetic vs Corpus and you Serration and multishot. Every. Single. Time*.

 

Stuff that is mandatory shouldn't pretend to be a choice. Serration (and similar) should auto-apply as you rank up the weapon (reduce the maximum energy in the gun accordingly). The same goes for Redirection.

 

*except the Penta.

Lol, the Penta. The Penta is so unique of a weapon that it doesnt need a 'faction geared' build to kick butt and has a nice amount of damage setup options. It's a great first to see a weapon that versatile in design that I hope DE makes more like it. It' s one of the few weapons I'm not too reserved about sticking a forma on in light of all of the damage table changes. The Penta rocks!

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I'm passionate about many things that impact this game, even if how I show it is a bit brash.

I can understand the passion.

 

I think we all want to see this game flourish and become the next great thing, The only thing i think we can do other than discuss what should be fixed is wait to see what changes they make to what's currently having issues.

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I can understand the passion.

 

I think we all want to see this game flourish and become the next great thing, The only thing i think we can do other than discuss what should be fixed is wait to see what changes they make to what's currently having issues.

I can dance to that beat.

+1

Plus this topic has gotten over 2000 views. Hopefully someone in those offices caught eye of this topic. Kind of a bummer it only got 95 replies...less if counting one post per player. 

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  • 3 months later...

Take away the Stalker's bloody slash dash. If I am not allowed to use my defensive abilities (Iron Skin, Frost Globe, what have you) to stop that ponce from popping in and oneshotting me, -he- shouldn't get offensive abilities to oneshot me either.

 

No, I don't care that he's supposed to be a legitimate threat, because even with all the buffs, what happens is that whoever gets Stalker runs in circles while the braindead AI gets shot to pieces by the other three people on the team, forever unable to catch up.

 

IMO of all the people asking for Stalker buffs/nerfs, I think he just needs a rework.

They reworked quite a few bosses, so why not the stalker too?

Give windows of opportunity for him to take damage, and make him give off warnings before doing 1-hit kills.

Say before he does his Slash Dash, he would poise himself, taking 1.5 seconds or so?

Something as simple as that would still punish players not paying attention, but experienced players would know to get out of the way.

The Stalker needs to still be STRONGER, FASTER, and DEADLIER than the player, but not without ways that a skilled player can overcome.

DPS and heavily-modded weapons does not equal skill. Yes, they should help you take him down easier, but it shouldn't be all you can rely on.

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