How does Hate build 4 combo points in one strike?

[rinzzlr]

As title say, I have been testing the Hate Incarnon Evolution 2 Perk which I noticed was changed after the Kullervo update. Previously, it was "With **only** a melee weapon equipped: ", now it is "With melee weapon equipped: " implying that I only need to have a melee weapon in my loadout. So I noticed that Hate builds 4 combo in one strike so I am wondering how does that happen unless the Perk is once again, not working as described or something else. 

Warframe Wiki has not documented the change yet so I took a screenshot of the previous description: https://imgur.com/a/t7MUPcn

I also made a video showing a simple test of comparing Hate with no mods (just stance) and Pangolin Prime as a comparison for testing the combo count. Even with Pangolin Prime equipped with True Punishment simulating the 100% additional Combo Count chance and it only adds 2 combo points. 

 

 

PS: I am still not sure whether or not this is a Bug or not hence I am posting it here to understand it further. Once it is confirmed that it is a bug, I will probably repost it in the Bug Threads.

[(NSW)warfare3376]

Different attacks yield different combo points. Reaping spiral has a 200% multiplier on its 1st forward hit where as crimson dervish has only a 100% multi on its 1st forward hit.  Crimson dervishs 2nd hit in the forward combo does have a 200% though so if you were to test that pangolin again but do the 2nd hit of the combo you would see you combo go to 6 instead of 4.

Melee Combo | WARFRAME Wiki | Fandom

Different attacks award varying amounts of combo points, depending on their strength and number of hits. The combo reset period is affected by combo duration, and combo consumption from heavy attacks is affected by Heavy Attack Efficiency.  From the wiki

[rinzzlr]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Reaping spiral has a 200% multiplier on its 1st forward hit

Okay that makes a lot of sense. Though if I understand this correctly then, this 200% multiplier affects combo too? I thought those only affect damage lol. 

That also means that because Evo 2 perk gives out 100% combo count chance by just having a melee weapon equipped, plus this 200% multiplier, I get 3 extra combo points which basically translates to 4 combo points in one hit?  

Also, after reading this, I went ahead and removed Reaping Spiral stance from Hate itself and it still adds 4 points regardless so I assume stanceless Hate defaults to Reaping Spiral stance which applies the multiplier I assume? 

[Tiltskillet]

20 minutes ago, rinzzlr said:

Though if I understand this correctly then, this 200% multiplier affects combo too?

They multiply combo generation too.  I think there are a few exceptions.

32 minutes ago, rinzzlr said:

I assume stanceless Hate defaults to Reaping Spiral stance which applies the multiplier I assume? 

Stanceless uses Reaping Spiral's forward combo for all four of its basic combo. 

35 minutes ago, rinzzlr said:

That also means that because Evo 2 perk gives out 100% combo count chance by just having a melee weapon equipped, plus this 200% multiplier, I get 3 extra combo points which basically translates to 4 combo points in one hit?  

The math checks out.

I've got a question for you about this though...

1 hour ago, rinzzlr said:

implying that I only need to have a melee weapon in my loadout.

I don't have Incarnon Hate build yet, but on Nami Solo's variant of that condition with the same language, it requires a force equip, i.e., hold down 'f', so no instant swapping to ranged weapons.  Is quick melee enough to benefit from that perk on the Hate?

Watching your video I do see one definite difference.  On Nami Solo I have to have at least one ranged weapon slotted or the perk doesn't do anything.

[rinzzlr]

24 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Is quick melee enough to benefit from that perk on the Hate?

Funnily, I also don't have Nami Solo Incarnon lol, but looking at warframe wiki, if you are referring to its Evo 3 perk which says "With only a melee weapon equipped: Increase Fall Off by +60%", I do assume that the perk wants you to ONLY have that one melee equipped in your loadout.

But yes, I am pretty sure that I even found out about this behavior when I tested Hate in Simulacrum, initially having all Stalker loadouts by just doing the quick melee. 

And I also did another quick test just to verify that yes, Evo 2 Perk of Hate works as described, even quick melee counts. And also having Dread and Despair in my loadout. 

 

[taiiat]

if you're using Reaping Spiral, then:

inputs which have multiple Damage points listed, means there's multiple attacks during that, meaning two hits.
additionally if you see a Multiplier count next to the Number (like the second input of Forward Block), that means that single hit actually hits twice in one hit.

 

so that's probably where your anomalies are coming from.

 

 

and as mentioned, Stanceless still uses some Animation set, sometimes it's a piece of one of the Stances, but not always.

[rinzzlr]

9 minutes ago, taiiat said:

so that's probably where your anomalies are coming from

yup thank you. I figured them out too with the help of others.