Mag Mini-rework

[bnuy]

7 minutes ago, SteveCutler said:

My biggest problem with Mag is how squishy she is. It feels awful playing frames that don't have any DR. Any frame can get health or armor, but that alone isn't enough to comfortably tank on Steel Path; it needs to be combined with DR. Spamming abilities every two nanoseconds to exploit shield gating isn't my idea of a fun time...

This is something some players don't seem to understand.
Yes, she can abuse shield-gate to stay immortal, is that a healthy survivability method? No, no it isn't, she needs an actual survivability tool in her kit, like DR as you stated.
Not sure if you noticed but I did add a damage reduction component to Polarize, allowing her to buff her and all allies shields damage reduction up to 85% from 25%.

[AsffluffyZ]

The majority of this thread feels pointless because of the rework to shields mentioned in the devstream. Now shield gating is something shield restoring frames can make the most of while others can't. Mag also becomes a better support frame.

[bnuy]

3 hours ago, AsffluffyZ said:

The majority of this thread feels pointless because of the rework to shields mentioned in the devstream. Now shield gating is something shield restoring frames can make the most of while others can't. Mag also becomes a better support frame.

Only one or two small changes in this rework were affected by the shield changes, the rest of the changes I proposed were unrelated to shields and thus are still very much have a purpose.
I've also done a small change to the parts that are affected by the new changes, and standardized it all.

[0Midas0]

On 2023-09-26 at 6:24 PM, bnuy said:

i agree, mag is in a great place, that doesn't mean she can't be improved or polished a bit more though
you really don't think any of my proposed changes would make her more interesting or fun? is there not a single issue i talked about that you agree with? 😭

Sure, but I can think of over a dozen frames who I could only wish were on Mag's level as she currently stands. 

[0Midas0]

On 2023-09-27 at 10:41 AM, SteveCutler said:

My biggest problem with Mag is how squishy she is. It feels awful playing frames that don't have any DR. Any frame can get health or armor, but that alone isn't enough to comfortably tank on Steel Path; it needs to be combined with DR. Spamming abilities every two nanoseconds to exploit shield gating isn't my idea of a fun time...

Honestly, I rarely have to use shield gating as mag except in open world areas. In the normal corridor-fighting conditions of a mission where a single magnetize bubble can block off a whole hallway, not being attacked in the first place is far more powerful a defensive tool. 

[bnuy]

bump

[Traumtulpe]

I think Mag would be great if only her bugs were fixed. Magnetize failing to activate on ragdolled enemies, ceasing to pull when the target dies (but still blocking your shots, redirecting them to a now empty space), and Crush disabling melee for a moment are all very noticable and bothersome.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Traumtulpe

[(PSN)Unstar]

Mag is my main and I honestly think she's one of the most powerful frames in the game. 

• Passive: Mag's passive is something that is so unnoticeable that it may as well not exist.
• Pull is one of the most perfect moves in the entire game.  I wouldn't say no to Greedy Pull being innately part of it because I've never been able to reconcile using a mod slot for that, but other than that leave my perfect baby alone.
• Magnetize is great.  Sounds like it has a bug but beyond that I'm perfectly happy with it the way it is.  I personally don't feel like there's a need to be able to collapse the bubbles.
• Polarize...I can't tell if Polarize just isn't my style or if it's just not that good late-game.  It's at the very least made redundant by Crush, especially when using Crush's augment
• Crush is great on its own as an AoE CC that builds overshields for my entire team, but add in its augment that allows me to quickly strip armor as well and it's bananas (in the way I like).  Shield-gating certainly synergizes well with this ability, but it's not just about the shield-gate, as Crush doesn't need to be spammed to stay alive.

My best good faith attempt at understanding the folks who are saying Mag is squishy is that they may be over-investing in her offense while under-investing in her defense.  Mag is in no way a tank like Rhino or Baruuk, but she's quite hardy.  Her ability to quickly generate shields paired with Adaptation will set you up to survive comfortably well into Steel Path.

In case it helps, here's the build I use:

Mods

• Aura: Sprint Boost (+15% sprint)
• Exilus: Amar's Anguish (+15% sprint, +15% bullet jump)
• Fracturing Crush (Crush gains +50% casting speed. The armor of surviving enemies decreases by 75% and they are unable to move for 7s.)
• Umbral Intensify (+55% Strength)
• Umbral Vitality (+130% Health)
• Adaptation (up to 90% DR)
• Stretch (+45% Range)
• Augur Reach (+30% Range)
• Streamline (+30% Efficiency)
• Fleeting Expertise, Rank 4 (+50% Efficiency, -50% Duration)

Arcanes

• Arcane Energize (More energy on orb pickup)
• Arcane Guardian (On Damaged: 15% chance for +900 Armor for 20s)

Focus

• Zenurik (energy!)

Shards

• Parkour, Duration, Armor, Armor, Health (all Tau-Forged)

Helminth

• Replaced Polarize with Sevagoth's Gloom (AoE slow aura that gives lifesteal)

 

There are a lot of defensive doodads in this build, and let me tell you: it is overkill.  The armor shards?  There to give Mag enough armor to qualify for certain Incarnon buffs.  Gloom?  There to give Mag a channeled ability to qualify for certain Incarnon buffs.  And of course, they boost her already solid survival, making her incredibly comfy to play.

The thing is, Mag's offense requires minimal investment because she's already staggeringly powerful as long as she's holding decent weapons.  Pull lays enemies right down at your feet to quickly take out with your melee, or plops them into your Magnetize bubble where your ranged weapons make short work of them.  Crush entirely strips their armor while CCing them while giving you and your whole team and your pets overshields.  That's all the offense you need.

With Adaptation, should you find yourself in hot water, press Crush to get your shields back, and now you've got 90% DR that will keep those shields around.  Plus if they finally do get through to your health, you've got a good deal of health and armor (and probably more armor from Arcane Guardian proccing from all those shield hits) so you'll be able to take it.  Plus Gloom makes all your attacks regain health, plus everyone around you is slow.

Again, this is overkill in terms of survivability; you could remove Gloom and the health/armor shards and probably Arcane Guardian and still not be mashing Crush for your life.  But if you're still after more comfort even with that, this build is just one example of the kind of thing you could work towards to feel super comfy.  With this build, I am actively lazy and stupid in missions and it generally doesn't come back to bite me.  I have arthritis, my reflexes are slowing, I'm here for a good time not a challenging time.  Mag is durable if you make her durable.

Hope this helps some folks! <3

[DstroyR]

Well... I see only one major issue with Mag as she is. Look for other element-based warframes like Frost, Ember, Volt, Saryn, Gyre etc. See? Their attacks deal damage and applying status. Enemyes frozen, shocked, burned, poisoned somehow etc. So, if warframe elemental-based, we see status procs from its attacks. Who see magnetic procs from Mag`s attack? Battacor, Simulor, Gammacor - magnetic-based weapons, and we can see magnetic procs with them. Why we see no magnetic procs with magnetic-based warframe? Yeah, magnetic is combined element, but we can say same about corrosive, virus, blast or radiation, and we see how Hydro, Saryn, Oberon etc. deal combined elemental damage with status procs. So, my point is simple: let Mag`s magnetic damage be also with magnetic status. Maybe, magnetic is not so mighty status type, but Mag is only one frame based on this element. I think, she must be capable to manage she`s native element not worst than other elemental-based frames do this with their native elements;)
P.S. Ah, yes, about Magnetise and its augment. Ability to powerfull, but also so bugged. With maximized range i sometime see to little, anomaly little bubbles. It looks like i using couple of zone-shredding mods, instead zone-maximizing mods which i actually using XD So, it looks like something wrong with this ability in core.

Edited December 24, 2023 by DstroyR
To bad english, i`m sorry

[bnuy]

bump?

[DstroyR]

Interesting, how gameplay with Mag will be affected by future magnetic damage & status reworking.

[dantaboy]

Most of the QOL/Fixes focus around Magnetize. As a Mag main I only really notice its bugs. If there are any bugs for her other abilities players have come across it would be nice to read them in the replies. I’d honestly just take the QOL/Fixes. Mag is in a good spot but these bugs are frustrating. For a “rework,” I’d really want to just add on to her base abilities. They also won’t force any changes to any of her current playstyles. If a player couldn’t or didn't want to build into any of the additions, they wouldn’t have too.

Basically, she will still be a weapons platform. Spreading magnetic procs to get a boost once the enemies she kills have enough applied to them.

Pull and/or Polarize are considered the most hemlith slot replaceable abilities in Mag’s basekit. These changes will strengthen her other abilities indirectly, and more directly give Polarize and Pull value. If anything sounds over powered. I'd love to hear why. I mainly thought about how and why a player should want to spread magnetic procs and making additions that already exist in the game some way.  

Fixes/QOL:

1. Magnetize targeted does not fully lock targets into place
2. Magnetize targeted pull effect doesn’t continue until ability duration ends.
3. Magnetize targeted doesn’t cast on enemies ragdolled by pull

One: When magnetize is casted on an enemy it can still be pulled or effected by other grouping abilities. Casting it on an enemy pulled into the air will cause the bubble to fall to the ground. Other grouping abilities taking enemies out of magnetize is fine for the most part. But, the bubble and target shouldn’t be moveable. 

Two: The pull effect of magnetize stops after the targeted corpse despawns. As it is a solid form of survivability I believe it should continuously pull in enemies. The pull effect stopping is annoying, especially considering how non-overguard mobs manage to walk through the pull effect to some degree. Melee enemies sometimes manage to walk up to mag and hit her while in the bubble.

Three: Casting magnetize consistently fails when the enemies are pulled along the ground. E.g mag pulls enemies in front of her and immediately casts magnetize, it will fail. It does work while pulling enemies into the air, not sure what the difference is.

Ability Additions:

1. Polarize gains the cast limitation of magnetize and gains 200% chance to spread magnetic effects.
2. Mag gains 5% extra ability strength on enemies, per magnetic status affecting said enemies.
3. 25% chance for enemies affected by magnetic status to drop an energy orb on death.
4. When Mag kills an enemy affected by a magnetic status after using crush, her shield gains a regen buff.

One: Polarize can now be casted three times, with the same limitations of magnetize. It also gains a 200% chance to inflict magnetic status effects on hit enemies. 
Counter Pulse balance: Enemies affected by counter pulse who are hit again will have it retriggered for 100% of the remaining duration. Similar to Baruuk’s Lull augment.

Two: Mag gains 5% extra ability strength on enemies, per magnetic status affecting said enemies.
Scaling to 50% extra ability strength on enemies inflicted with 10 magnetic status effects.
Similar to Ember’s passive.

Three: Pull has a 100% chance to apply magnetic proc to enemies pulled. Once pulled, enemies affected by magnetic status will have a 2.5% chance to drop an energy orb. Scaling to 25% with a full stack of magnetic. The orb drop chance could be its own timer or based on vortex effect duration. Additionally, the duration of the vortex effect of pull, could be increased based on the number of magnetic procs.

Four: Hitting enemies with Crush will lower Mag’s shield regen delay by 1.5% per magnetic status affecting each hit enemy, capped at 90% reduced regen delay. Killing enemies affected by magnetic status will grant a shield regen boost that restores 75 shields, a second,  per magnetic status on killed enemy.