Looking for insight on the future of Warframe

[SDGDen]

Just now, (XBOX)Pugs Xbox said:

obviously they don't stay difficult once you learn them. you seem like you're just burntout because you did them so often. the social experience is incredible ESPECIALLY with the right party, the raids are well known to be the main draw for a lot of players, and while combat is an integral part, there's a reason why raids aren't strikes

the "social experience" is why i dont play it anymore, according to my psychologist the "social experience" i had with destiny literally gave me PTSD.

again, do not cite the deep magic to me. i ran a community built on teaching newbies how to play raids, i also played in a community that did raid speedruns for a while.

the reason why raids work is destiny is SIGNIFICANTLY better balanced, and even in destiny you can see powercreep affecting difficulty. last wish was difficult during year 2 and year 3. but the last couple years its been one of the easiest raids in the game. 

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Pugs Xbox said:

i love being that discoverer.. i don't know where you got that from after what i said earlier. and of course there are going to be combinations discovered and posted! that's the beauty of warframe, and what gives it so much life. there's no way to build away a mechanics focused raid where power isn't the main focus (though every game will have its efficient combinations, and i would even prefer there to be meta gear even for mechanics focused encounters to have something to strive for, once again missing the point as always), which is why i think warframe of all games would massively benefit

If building isn’t the focus, how is something like modless not the ideal?

[(XBOX)Pugs Xbox]

2 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

the "social experience" is why i dont play it anymore, according to my psychologist the "social experience" i had with destiny literally gave me PTSD.

again, do not cite the deep magic to me. i ran a community built on teaching newbies how to play raids, i also played in a community that did raid speedruns for a while.

the reason why raids work is destiny is SIGNIFICANTLY better balanced, and even in destiny you can see powercreep affecting difficulty. last wish was difficult during year 2 and year 3. but the last couple years its been one of the easiest raids in the game. 

 

so you'd rather not have raids in the game at all? and because "the social experience gave you PTSD" are you claiming that raids aren't the main draw for.. most players? you ran a community and did speedruns dude. can't do that and act like they're bad pieces of content. reminds me of those people who have 8000 hours in warframe and leave a negative review on steam

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

If building isn’t the focus, how is something like modless not the ideal?

idk what you're getting at. it's not impossible to create mechanic focused encounters that use the power we've accumulated over the years. do you think DE is incompetent?

Edited December 11, 2023 by (XBOX)Pugs Xbox

[(XBOX)Pugs Xbox]

4 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

the "social experience" is why i dont play it anymore, according to my psychologist the "social experience" i had with destiny literally gave me PTSD.

again, do not cite the deep magic to me. i ran a community built on teaching newbies how to play raids, i also played in a community that did raid speedruns for a while.

the reason why raids work is destiny is SIGNIFICANTLY better balanced, and even in destiny you can see powercreep affecting difficulty. last wish was difficult during year 2 and year 3. but the last couple years its been one of the easiest raids in the game. 

 

i didn't read your whole post before. you're saying that destiny is better balanced and that's why raids work and that's definitely true but it's far from impossible. powercreep effects difficulty in destiny from what i've heard (i didn't play long enough to see it, it took like 6 years for that to happen) but even so the raids are still beloved

[(NSW)Greybones]

19 minutes ago, (XBOX)Pugs Xbox said:

i love being that discoverer.. i don't know where you got that from after what i said earlier. and of course there are going to be combinations discovered and posted! that's the beauty of warframe, and what gives it so much life. there's no way to build away a mechanics focused raid where power isn't the main focus (though every game will have its efficient combinations, and i would even prefer there to be meta gear even for mechanics focused encounters to have something to strive for, once again missing the point as always), which is why i think warframe of all games would massively benefit

And this is a serious question; how is modless, the version of everything we have stripped of nearly any potential for unexpected combinations that would be a nightmare to plan for, not an ideal baseline for some raid mechanics?

I like raids! I think if they were introduced into the game, they could be fun. They’ll have specific mechanics that are expecting a certain TTK or will threaten the player a certain amount, forcing players to have to work together for the sake of whatever’s going on. The last one I did was Deep Stone Crypt in Destiny, it was fun.

But the moment you start giving players the chance to augment or customise their equipment, especially if they can just slap on more damage or health, then things get a lot more complicated, and is why games that have that kind of stuff are super stringent about matching levels (with their attached stats) and what kind of customisation options players will have

12 minutes ago, (XBOX)Pugs Xbox said:

idk what you're getting at. it's not impossible to create mechanic focused encounters that use the power we've accumulated over the years. do you think DE is incompetent?

I think DE have been rather clever about designing fights as they navigate every combination of everything we can bring; I actually go looking for fights, after all.

The bosses can be quite hit or miss, but there’s a lot more going on just in general in regards to any fight

Edited December 12, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[(XBOX)Pugs Xbox]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

And this is a serious question; how is modless, the version of everything we have stripped of nearly any potential for unexpected combinations that would be a nightmare to plan for, not an ideal baseline for some raid mechanics?

I like raids! I think if they were introduced into the game, they could be fun. They’ll have specific mechanics that are expecting a certain TTK or will threaten the player a certain amount, forcing players to have to work together for the sake of whatever’s going on. The last one I did was Deep Stone Crypt in Destiny, it was fun.

But the moment you start giving players the chance to augment or customise their equipment, especially if they can just slap on more damage or health, then things get a lot more complicated, and is why games that have that kind of stuff are super stringent about matching levels (with their attached stats) and what kind of customisation options players will have

I think DE have been rather clever about designing fights as they navigate every combination of everything we can bring; I actually go looking for fights, after all

it's not an ideal baseline because if raids are endgame then you have nothing to strive for and nothing to prepare for. mechanical encounters are nice, but part of the reason i'd be excited is because new loot would be a lot more sought after if it was efficient for something difficult rather than just being 3000 mastery points in this unending collectathon, and new mods being a lot less valuable

Edited December 12, 2023 by (XBOX)Pugs Xbox

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, (XBOX)Pugs Xbox said:

it's not an ideal baseline because if raids are endgame then you have nothing to strive for and nothing to prepare for. mechanical encounters are nice, but part of the reason i'd be excited is because new loot would be a lot more sought after if it was efficient for something difficult rather than just being 3000 mastery points in this unending collectathon

You mix the new stuff into what you’ve already got and where you take the result will determine how the fight plays out. This isn’t a linear game because it’s got to support more than what sits at the top, and what sits at the top is a mess of zero limit builds, things that are specifically designed to squash everything with no weaknesses, and that’s part of the problem of making raids for those who have everything to pick and choose from

Take something like Destiny; most of what you’re chasing is a higher Light level, right? Or WoW, where what you’re chasing is a higher level in general. Enemies are scaled according to that level, you’re scaled according to that level, in Destiny you get some minor customisations like an alternative jump or a slightly longer Ward of Dawn or whatever

In Warframe, the enemies have levels, we do not. We got builds and places to take them, and the whole mod system is designed on a “Power comes with a literal cost” system, where in order to slot more power, you’re sacrificing customisation and variety, and the cross section of variety and difficulty sits somewhere in the middle, not at either extreme end

There’s a reason why Archons aren’t 9999 Steel Path or even share the same modifiers that make SP the unbalanced mess it is

[(XBOX)Pugs Xbox]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You mix the new stuff into what you’ve already got and where you take the result will determine how the fight plays out. This isn’t a linear game because it’s got to support more than what sits at the top, and what sits at the top is a mess of zero limit builds, things that are specifically designed to squash everything with no weaknesses, and that’s part of the problem of making raids for those who have everything to pick and choose from

Take something like Destiny; most of what you’re chasing is a higher Light level, right? Or WoW, where what you’re chasing is a higher level in general. Enemies are scaled according to that level, you’re scaled according to that level, in Destiny you get some minor customisations like an alternative jump or a slightly longer Ward of Dawn or whatever

In Warframe, the enemies have levels, we do not. We got builds and places to take them, and the whole mod system is designed on a “Power comes with a literal cost” system, where in order to slot more power, you’re sacrificing customisation and variety, and the cross section of variety and difficulty sits somewhere in the middle, not at either extreme end

There’s a reason why Archons aren’t 9999 Steel Path or even share the same modifiers that make SP the unbalanced mess it is

destiny 2 actually has some of the crazy build power creep stuff that warframe has and it's way WAY more in depth than what you're saying lmao but i think i'm going to leave it here. you're saying it's impossible for a team as talented as DE making $100,000,000+ yearly off warframe to design around player power in warframe with mechanics focused encounters and putting power on the backburner and to me that's just laughably wrong, and i don't really want to argue over it. just know i'll play this game until the end of time if they ever add anything along these lines lol

Edited December 12, 2023 by (XBOX)Pugs Xbox

[(NSW)Greybones]

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)Pugs Xbox said:

destiny 2 actually has some of the crazy build power creep stuff that warframe has and it's way WAY more in depth than what you're saying lmao but i think i'm going to leave it here. you're saying it's impossible for a team as talented as DE making $100,000,000+ yearly off warframe to design around player power in warframe with mechanics focused encounters and putting power on the backburner and to me that's just laughably wrong, and i don't really want to argue over it. just know i'll play this game until the end of time if they ever add anything along these lines lol

Suit yourself. Long as you’ve got a personal hangup over wondering if you really need some sort of power increase when you don’t actually need it for the content you’re doing/way your loadout is designed/way you’re playing and instead could replace it with something else for better gameplay, I think you’re going to be waiting a while as DE cater to the whole of the game

edit: Also, I’ve played Destiny. It’s got its goods and bads, but Warframe and its options for gameplay and fighting has a lot more depth; I would love to mash the two together though, since sometimes I do miss the scripted raids and strikes, but I want Warframe’s options and for the scripted stuff to be a side mission

Edited December 12, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[(XBOX)Pugs Xbox]

Just now, (NSW)Greybones said:

Suit yourself. Long as you’ve got a personal hangup over wondering if you really need some sort of power increase and instead could replace it with something else for better gameplay, I think you’re going to be waiting a while as DE cater to the whole of the game

i don't need power increase i'm not one of those lol i could do without all the power creep stuff if it meant having raids or ANY form of difficult content in the game i'd take being weaker in general. i just know what the rest of the community wants and what would be best for the game. ultimately, modless encounters would disconnect raids from the rest of the games rewards and i don't want it to be a lifeless content island but instead make use of all of the systems we've spent years building up. warframe is a complex game but i think most would agree warframe's fatal flaw is that its beautiful systems don't tie together enough to create something cohesive and the game's endgame is just collect everything

 it would lead to loot being more valuable in general if content was difficult as it would lead to a reason to want to minmax outside of it being cool or fun

i think i've said all this already except for the first sentence just worded it differently so we'll leave it here but if anyone sees this and has some input let me know i love discussing this stuff

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Pugs Xbox said:

i don't need power increase i'm not one of those lol i could do without all the power creep stuff if it meant having raids or ANY form of difficult content in the game i'd take being weaker in general. i just know what the rest of the community wants and what would be best for the game. ultimately, modless encounters would disconnect raids from the rest of the games rewards and i don't want it to be a lifeless content island but instead make use of all of the systems we've spent years building up. warframe is a complex game but i think most would agree warframe's fatal flaw is that its beautiful systems don't tie together enough to create something cohesive and the game's endgame is just collect everything

 it would lead to loot being more valuable in general if content was difficult as it would lead to a reason to want to minmax outside of it being cool or fun

i think i've said all this already except for the first sentence just worded it differently so we'll leave it here but if anyone sees this and has some input let me know i love discussing this stuff

Doesn’t need to be modless, that’s just the starting point. Like the rest of the game designed around modless as the starting point and utilising the “Power comes with a cost” system where players are pretty clearly not concerned with sacrificing anything for power, as if they downed the Kuva Koolaid on that mountain and joined the cult of power.

Starting point’s always there if you want to play around with the basics and work your way up, personally I like to throw on a Bleeding and Decaying Dragon Key to introduce a little spice in the part of the game that’s meant to be easier

[Voltage]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Pugs Xbox said:

i did my research before making this post. you misremember. the AMA said they'd like to bring them back, but don't know when they'll have the chance
i also remember doing a player survey not that long ago that asked about them

Maybe you were reading an older AMA:

Hard to say if we’ll get a chance to resuscitate Trials, with our goals for the year it’s unlikely they’ll be coming back.
- [DE]Pablo

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/UfNPmqx39v

They're as dead as Dark Sectors. It's very unsurprising with the direction the game is going. Maybe you're just reading the same answer as me but with more optimism. I don't see them ever returning unless their entire playerbase shifts away from the modern generation they've nurtured.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Voltage

[(XBOX)Pugs Xbox]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Maybe you were reading an older AMA:

Hard to say if we’ll get a chance to resuscitate Trials, with our goals for the year it’s unlikely they’ll be coming back.
- [DE]Pablo

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/UfNPmqx39v

They're as dead as Dark Sectors. It's very unsurprising with the direction the game is going. Maybe you're just reading the same answer as me but with more optimism. I don't see them ever returning unless their entire playerbase shifts away from the modern generation they've nurtured.

i was reading with more optimism, yes