Excalibur is one of the most poorly designed warframes in the game.

[Thorham]

On 2024-04-26 at 3:28 AM, Vermillion-Code said:

His exalted is weaker than a normal melee weapon with a melee arcane and Tennokai

It's damage is fine on non-endurance Steel Path missions. You basically rip through everything.

On 2024-04-26 at 3:28 AM, Vermillion-Code said:

His survivability is downright insulting in Steel Path

He does seem a little squishy in Steel Path survival missions.

[Agall]

2 hours ago, Thorham said:

It's damage is fine on non-endurance Steel Path missions. You basically rip through everything.

He does seem a little squishy in Steel Path survival missions.

Excalibur in SP survival is perfectly capable, just got to run the right build. I have no issues shield gating.

For reference 😁

[Agall]

On 2024-01-05 at 9:07 AM, Yasha-7HS said:

 

The future

To come back to your original post, I think there's a simple solution to most of Excalibur's problems. It involves a Passive rework, potentially a simple Exalted Blade change.

 

New Passive: Excalibur's Slash Dash and Radial Javelin inherent the base critical chance, critical damage, and status chance of his equipped melee if that melee is a sword. 

 

That would make any sword type weapon (with the current list hopefully to include two handed swords/nikanas) directly affect Slash Dash and Radial Javelin and their CC/CD/SC, where Exalted Blade would be an inherent option.

Currently, Slash Dash even with Exalted Blade out doesn't do much damage, since it still has the inherent 0/1x/0 base stats. Even if it had the 15/2x/15 it would make it more than just a mobility option with Exalted Blade.

Radial Javelin would see a substantial damage increase, but that's no where near to OP relative to the most meta builds right now.

Exalted Blade would then work similar to Garuda's claws and be a basic form of sword until you cast his #4 which turns it into a proper Exalted weapon sort of like the old channeling system. It would effectively be a stance-less skana with relatively low stats (15/2x/15) as a base melee weapon, then turn into a proper exalted with the base 25 energy cost and energy/second drain version it is now.

People could still use any melee weapon with Excalibur, they just would have to use Exalted Blade to unlock the full potential. Any sword equipped though would truly unlock the 'master swordsman' design of Excalibur though.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 19 horas, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

I'm quite convinced my Excal build can kill high level enemies quicker than any kullervo build currently out there. Or even better: why don't you compare your kullervo with my excal in the simulacrum or a mission? 😉 I'm not gonna lie, the build is not only about sheer damage. Sheer damage doesn't scale all that well afaik. With that being said, I'm pretty sure kullervo won't scale that well either if no slash based builds or additional sources of armor strip are used. On top of that, it's more difficult to keep kullervo alive once you hit high level enemies as he can't shield gate and overguard gate is much shorter as well.

I'm pretty convinced not, with Kullervo I can use his 1 to increase critical chance, bind enemies with his 3 and due to the high attack efficiency of his passive I can use any melee weapon with high slashing damage and status chance or that he applies slash on strong attacks without losing much combo and all this without augments or helminth (I see those excuses coming), he can even use swords much better than Excalibur whose passive only focuses on swords. He may not be that good at surviving, but Excalibur doesn't have any abilities to help him with that either.

I add that the armor strip is not necessary on Kullervo, with its 4 and 3 and the buffs of the melee weapons it can perfectly kill armored enemies.

Edited April 29 by --Leyenda-yight6

[Thorham]

1 hour ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

I add that the armor strip is not necessary on Kullervo, with its 4 and 3 and the buffs of the melee weapons it can perfectly kill armored enemies.

What level? Steel Path (probably obvious, sorry)?

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 9 minutos, Thorham dijo:

What level? Steel Path (probably obvious, sorry)?

Yes, his 3 and 4 deal a lot of slash damage and with his 1 increasing critical chance he can deal very powerful slashing damage, especially if using melee weapons like scythes and nikanas.

[Thorham]

2 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

Yes, his 3 and 4 deal a lot of slash damage and with his 1 increasing critical chance he can deal very powerful slashing damage, especially if using melee weapons like scythes and nikanas.

I didn't write that down entirely properly. I meant Steel Path or not, and also enemy level.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 11 minutos, Thorham dijo:

I didn't write that down entirely properly. I meant Steel Path or not, and also enemy level.

It's on the steel path, level 1000 enemies, it's the furthest I can go before falling asleep and it's more than enough level for the entire content of the game.

Edited April 29 by --Leyenda-yight6

[Thorham]

7 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

It's on the steel path, level 1000 enemies

Never tried that, but takes too long to get there for me, and my current build is way to squishy for that anyway. Damage might be okay. Maybe.

Just tried Deep Archimedea exterminate. Enemies were 400+ at the and I died. Exalted Blade Damage was still fine.

12 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

it's more than enough level for the entire content of the game

Indeed.

[Mr.DaburuKaramu]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb --Leyenda-yight6:

I'm pretty convinced not, with Kullervo I can use his 1 to increase critical chance, bind enemies with his 3 and due to the high attack efficiency of his passive I can use any melee weapon with high slashing damage and status chance or that he applies slash on strong attacks without losing much combo and all this without augments or helminth (I see those excuses coming), he can even use swords much better than Excalibur whose passive only focuses on swords. He may not be that good at surviving, but Excalibur doesn't have any abilities to help him with that either.

I add that the armor strip is not necessary on Kullervo, with its 4 and 3 and the buffs of the melee weapons it can perfectly kill armored enemies.

My offer still stands: let's test it in the game. My claim is that my build not only scales infinitely even in SP survival, but the achievable KPM in lower level SP survival will also be higher compared to kullervo. Very potent slash dots can definitely 1 hit enemies but slash still needs more time to kill on average than other, more efficient ways to do so. Excal can do things with his 4 which kullervo can't all while having the plus of a great stance for mobility which matters a lot for KPM. 

Let's settle this and after we've compared builds, then you may claim kullervo is superior OR you might have to agree that that's not always the case. 

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 34 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

My offer still stands: let's test it in the game. My claim is that my build not only scales infinitely even in SP survival, but the achievable KPM in lower level SP survival will also be higher compared to kullervo. Very potent slash dots can definitely 1 hit enemies but slash still needs more time to kill on average than other, more efficient ways to do so. Excal can do things with his 4 which kullervo can't all while having the plus of a great stance for mobility which matters a lot for KPM. 

Let's settle this and after we've compared builds, then you may claim kullervo is superior OR you might have to agree that that's not always the case. 

Kullervo doesn't have any exalted and has no restrictions on his abilities with any specific type of melee weapon, so you can use whatever stances you want, whatever melee weapon you want, and best of all, I can use arcana melee, tennokai mods, combo mods, I have no energy drain and stances give me greater ability to mod, plus kullervo can improve crits and chain damage. Excalibur only has his passive buff (if you can call that a buff) his other abilities do nothing to improve his melee weapons and he only has one exalted with the melee weapon restrictions I mentioned and with stats much inferior to other exalted ones (baruuk, wukong). Have you even tried Kullervo or do you really have an irrational attachment to Excalibur?

Could you give me the Excalibur build you use? (of course, without augmentations or helminths, we are comparing the innate abilities of warframes)

 

Edited April 29 by --Leyenda-yight6

[Mr_Stach]

This whole exchange is funny to me. No one is saying that Excalibur can't do SP, he obviously can. But to compare to Kullervo, it's a cost vs investment. You need to invest more generally into Excal to get him to output the same thing that Kullervo does with just basic mods. 

That's kind of what this post is about right, help bring Excal up in some weak points to improve his entire kit. 

[Mr.DaburuKaramu]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Mr_Stach:

This whole exchange is funny to me. No one is saying that Excalibur can't do SP, he obviously can. But to compare to Kullervo, it's a cost vs investment. You need to invest more generally into Excal to get him to output the same thing that Kullervo does with just basic mods. 

That's kind of what this post is about right, help bring Excal up in some weak points to improve his entire kit. 

The main argument is that they are vastly different. Kullervo won't scale the same way excalibur can and I'll get straight to the point. Excalibur needs an augment which is chromatic blade and that's what enables him to scale infinitely with the right setup. No furious javelin, no extra overkill damage that isn't needed. Even the highest level enemies die when one strips them off their armor. Kullervo mains long realised that in order to scale into the very high levels, one needs to run either armor strip abilities or strip armor with weapons and emerald shards. Excalibur actually doesn't need that, he strips with his 4. A lot of power strength (increases status chance, which is why we do it, and damage), a lot of attack speed (arcane strike, berserker and quickening on EB) and enemies are fully stripped in an instant. This is further complemented by choosing a red energy color to turn all his IPS into heat damage. Corrosive needs to be weighted higher in order for the armor strip to become near instant. So 2 emerald shards. High power strength can now be achieved without blind rage, and the way his 4 snapshots strength buffs, we can stack many bonuses without having to recast it. The other half of the equation is EB itself. We don't mod for any crit damage, we get that from Violet shards together with a blue tau shard for the needed energy cap. EB has follow through of 1 which kullervo can only dream of, why is that important? Because with primed reach and spring loaded blade, excal can now strip all enemies in an instant in an 8 meter cone and his waves further speed it up against enemies right in front of him all while doing full damage to every enemy hit. With all the other bits and pieces I'm not going to mention right now, excal can run through full armor enemies (eximus too) and leave them dead behind without ever stopping. We get our energy from equilibrium and a panzer, the panzer is completely unkillable thanks to overguard as long as we hit enemies which we constantly do (pack leader), this in turn, thanks to martyr symbiosis, makes excal immortal WITHOUT any additional means of survivability like shield gating and shield recharge mods. Rolling guard is nice for status cleansing and surviving acolytes but even that isn't required. Excal only needs two mods to work, the rest are utility mods for energy and survivability. And again, if anybody is interested, we can compare builds in the game and I can share the complete build with all the bells and whistles. 

So what do we have now: excal doesn't have the obvious drawbacks of kullervo actually having shields so he can shield gate if required, 1 follow through and a truckload of range to hit everything, awesome flow on his 4 so he can do all that while running paired with good attack speed, and most importantly - the ability to strip everything on the move even without the need to prime enemies. You are self priming them and the occasional viral from panzer suffices, of course you can go even more nuts with viral rad epitaph (which I do) but even that is not a requirement. Excal is the most chill frame i can think of for high level endurance, and he was that for me before whispers in the walls, too. And yeah, I've got other frames that do it well, too - it's just that with excal I can switch off my brain and let the flow carry me through hordes of enemies without having to be careful and without spamming abilites apart from the occasional 2, occasional because it is not needed for him to survive. The only difference is that now his scaling has improved drastically. 

 

Small edit: corpus eximus die in 1 or 2 hits with that setup, no need to mod for them. Use unairu 1 in very high levels in case shields get too high. When fighting the corrupted, the build needs to be able to deal with everything at once. 

Edited April 29 by Mr.DaburuKaramu

[Thorham]

24 minutes ago, Mr.DaburuKaramu said:

I can share the complete build with all the bells and whistles

Please do, as an Excalaibur Umbra main I'd love to see that.

Edited April 29 by Thorham

[Mr.DaburuKaramu]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Thorham:

Please do, as an Excalaibur Umbra main I'd love to see that.

You ask and you shall receive. Replicate this and you for sure will have a lot of fun!

https://imgur.com/a/Tvl2JVU

Shards are two Tau violet for crit damage, Tau azur for energy to get >500 energy and 2 emerald for +4 corrosive stacks. Subsume is empower to boost the strength of EB mainly for more status chance. We don't need roar here because the damage is enough and we only care about status chance, not stronger dots. We also don't want anything like nourish because it interferes with the status distribution. The build has tons of survivability because it literally doesn't need efficiency, duration or range. Also, to add even more strength, use power drain on parazon to get an additional 50 strength for your next ability cast, all together excal reaches 350% strength (full molt augmented stacks). This is not needed though because 300% strength is already sufficient with this build to strip enemies off their armor in no time. Everything in this build is made to complement the general goal of it, shield gating is especially easy with this as radial blind consumes 50 energy, excal has 74 shields with catalyzing shields - so by using brief respite as aura you receive 75 shields per cast and can drop any augur mods in the build, they won't be needed. The synergy with panzer is awesome, too as excal becomes almost entirely immortal just from that as long as you hit and kill enemies. Glad mods on skana to increase crit chance of EB with combo up to 97,5% so a crit is nearly guaranteed, you will basically always sit at 12x combo, you can also run a heavy attack build but this build doesn't need any heavy attacks at all. Forgot to add, we use unairu mainly to be immune to stagger, slow and knockdown. It's actually a better PSF as long as you keep it active and once in a while transfer into operator (and of course not because it will take ages for me to acquire PSF 😜). Unairu's shield and armor strip are also good if really needed, in case you die you can easily revive yourself with the armor strip, that's why i always prefer unairu in high levels. The primary weapon doesn't matter, style points here. Only keep in mind that you may want to have amalgam serration for sprint boost on it, very useful for excal's KPM. That's also the reason we run speed drift, and ofc a bonus is the casting speed for his occasional 2. 

Enjoy being immortal and slash away :D 

I'd really love to own excal prime because he doesn't require the tau azure shard, one could just slot in yet another tau violet for crit damage, but well, one can't have everything, right? 🙃

btw: it's my only build that's sitting at 100% efficiency, duration, range and strength, precision intensify of course only applies to his 4. I think it looks kinda funny 😆

and just to back it all up once and for all with some SP lua circulus gameplay: 

https://imgur.com/a/8HUmJmH

The KPM will drop down to a 100 minimum in very high levels just because enemies got more health, efficiency will stay at 90-100% but sometimes efficiency will drop even though KPM doesn't which is just... warframe, i guess. 

Edited April 29 by Mr.DaburuKaramu

[Thorham]

9 hours ago, Mr.DaburuKaramu said:

You ask and you shall receive.

Thank you very much for the explanation 👍

Your build certainly looks a lot more interesting than my simple build. Very interesting.

9 hours ago, Mr.DaburuKaramu said:

Replicate this

That's going to take some effort 😄

9 hours ago, Mr.DaburuKaramu said:

I'd really love to own excal prime because he doesn't require the tau azure shard

You might be able to get Umbra to work if you forma over the Umbra polarities and use Warriors Rest.

Edited April 29 by Thorham

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 11 horas, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

Excalibur needs an augment which is chromatic blade and that's what enables him to scale infinitely with the right setup.

Kullervo does not need any augment to scale infinitely.

hace 11 horas, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

Kullervo mains long realised that in order to scale into the very high levels, one needs to run either armor strip abilities or strip armor with weapons and emerald shards. Excalibur actually doesn't need that, he strips with his 4.

You haven't read anything I said, it doesn't need an armor strip.

hace 11 horas, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

We get our energy from equilibrium and a panzer, the panzer is completely unkillable thanks to overguard as long as we hit enemies which we constantly do (pack leader), this in turn, thanks to martyr symbiosis, makes excal immortal WITHOUT any additional means of survivability like shield gating and shield recharge mods.

This can be used by any warframe, it works very well on Kullervo, giving more than enough time to use his 2, same with skana, epitaph and of course helminth (as expected).

Have you only tried it up to 15 minutes?

 

 

[Mr.DaburuKaramu]

vor 55 Minuten schrieb --Leyenda-yight6:

Kullervo does not need any augment to scale infinitely.

You haven't read anything I said, it doesn't need an armor strip.

This can be used by any warframe, it works very well on Kullervo, giving more than enough time to use his 2, same with skana, epitaph and of course helminth (as expected).

Have you only tried it up to 15 minutes?

 

 

I've been in Lua SP circulus for 8 hours + solo a couple of times with excal which means lvl 9999 enemies, are you really sure kullervo scales infinitely outside of perhaps disruption with vazarin protective sling shenanigans that easily? And what about KPM? Compared to excal, Kullervo quickly becomes a single target frame rather than an assassin of hordes. You are continously evading the direct comparison and don't want to accept that someone else is right as well as can back it up. Of course Kullervo doesn't need an augment or helminth, each of his abilities are made to harmonise with each other, but he is not the only frame who doesn't really profit from a helminth. You might as well make him worse with one. The helminth I chose doesn't make a huge difference (and who even uses empower except for me? 😂), it just adds to the theme of the build. In similar fashion, subsume roar doesn't make a frame op, just more comfortable to use. Both with and without, everything is totally doable. It might just take a split second longer to do though and some people like to squeeze everything out that's possible. 

Staying until lvl 1000 SP (in survival) is like comparing apples with oranges compared to max enemy lvl in case you run into issues like lower KPM, survivability or struggling with certain enemies. All I wanted to prove is that the KPM I claimed to achieve is easily achievable without trying hard and will be upheld as enemies only die a tiny touch slower when they got more health. Again, they get armor stripped at the same speed, so KPM in fact doesn't really change. Enemies can't kill me at lvl 180 and they can't do so at lvl 9999 as long as I just press E. The shield recharge delay mods are just the icing on the cake for excal's survivability so that we can chill even more and don't fall into health gate from panzer that often. Alternatively, the build is so cheap in regards to energy, I could spam excal's 2 for ages without running out on energy as the dead bodies around me drop health orbs for days which get converted into energy only when we aren't topped off (which works as intended when we don't use synth fiber on panzer which long became useless). 

Edited April 29 by Mr.DaburuKaramu

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 33 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

I've been in Lua SP circulus for 8 hours + solo a couple of times with excal which means lvl 9999 enemies, are you really sure kullervo scales infinitely outside of perhaps disruption with vazarin protective sling shenanigans that easily? And what about KPM? Compared to excal, Kullervo quickly becomes a single target frame rather than an assassin of hordes. You are continously evading the direct comparison and don't want to accept that someone else is right as well as can back it up. Of course Kullervo doesn't need an augment or helminth, each of his abilities are made to harmonise with each other, but he is not the only frame who doesn't really profit from a helminth. You might as well make him worse with one. The helminth I chose doesn't make a huge difference, it just adds to the theme of the build. In similar fashion, subsume roar doesn't make a frame op, just more comfortable to use. Both with and without, everything is totally doable. It might just take a split second longer to do though and some people like to squeeze everything out that's possible. 

Staying until lvl 1000 SP (in survival) is like comparing apples with oranges compared to max enemy lvl in case you run into issues like lower KPM, survivability or struggling with certain enemies. All I wanted to prove is that the KPM I claimed to achieve is easily achievable without trying hard and will be upheld as enemies only die a tiny touch slower when they got more health. Again, they get armor stripped at the same speed, so KPM in fact doesn't really change. Enemies can't kill me at lvl 180 and they can't do so at lvl 9999 as long as I just press E. The shield recharge delay mods are just the icing on the cake for excal's survivability so that we can chill even more and don't fall into health gate from panzer that often. Alternatively, the build is so cheap in regards to energy, I could spam excal's 2 for ages without running out on energy as the dead bodies around me drop health orbs for days which get converted into energy only when we aren't topped off (which works as intended when we don't use synth fiber on panzer which long became useless). 

 

En 27/4/2024 a las 21:45, --Leyenda-yight6 dijo:

All warframes can reach the maximum level and trivialize it, that's no surprise

The only thing that is clear to me is that you don't read anything I say, what about KPM? Since I'm not a metabuilder I don't really care, but melee influence exists, I've seen how absurd that arcana is, something exalted weapons can't use. What I compare is the usefulness, strength and versatility of the abilities, but the only thing you have mentioned with Excalibur has been the use of companions, weapons, focus schools, helminths and augmentations, at most you mentioned its exalted (a very dependent on your augmentation). If you are not able to defend a warframe without mentioning how good it is if you use X augment, helminth, companion, then it is clear to me that you simply have an irrational love for it, no matter how bad it is.

Edited April 29 by --Leyenda-yight6

[Mr.DaburuKaramu]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb --Leyenda-yight6:

 

The only thing that is clear to me is that you don't read anything I say, what about KPM? Since I'm not a metabuilder I don't really care, but melee influence exists, I've seen how absurd that arcana is, something exalted weapons can't use. What I compare is the usefulness, strength and versatility of the abilities, but the only thing you have mentioned with Excalibur has been the use of companions, weapons, focus schools, helminths and augmentations, at most you mentioned its exalted (a very dependent on your augmentation). If you are not able to defend a warframe without mentioning how good it is if you use X augment, helminth, companion, then it is clear to me that you simply have an irrational love for it, no matter how bad it is.

First and foremost, who doesn't use companions, weapons, focus schools, helminths and augmentations? Entire newbies to the game, perhaps? Other than that, i'm pretty sure everyone does that. I'm claiming the following: give Kullervo anything you want, anything you think is adding to his capabilities and make him last AND scale like excalibur can. Rest assured, you won't be able to pull it off as, according to your previous statements, you both disregard the obvious flaws Kullervo has compared to excal which ARE relevant and distinct, but you also sound like someone who might not be that fond of endurance players and don't want them to actually be good at what they do. I've been testing my own builds on excal ever since i got into the game and learned the basics, my goal was to make him strong but not just strong, better than your average frame both in terms of scalability and comfortability. I've met both of these requirements and can now say that he exceeds my other frames which include mag, volt, ember, vauban and valkyr. If we talked about valkyr, then yeah, it's pretty difficult to make her scale, i came up with a build that's working well for single targets but falls flat in very high levels because of longer TTK. 

On the contrary, i don't have an irrational love for excal, he can just be that good. And i highly doubt one could make kullervo as chill and capable at the same time in the high levels. Excalibur can do it all and he most likely does it better than Kullervo when you know what you do. But, to each their own, i guess.  

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 22 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

First and foremost, who doesn't use companions, weapons, focus schools, helminths and augmentations?

It seems like I'm talking to a wall

hace 22 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

I'm claiming the following: give Kullervo anything you want, anything you think is adding to his capabilities and make him last AND scale like excalibur can.

anything? well, he can use all the equipment you mentioned with excalibur: unairu, panzer, the same weapons, etc. just changing the shield mods for adaptation and rolling guard.

 

hace 22 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

Rest assured, you won't be able to pull it off as

he already did it, like any other warframe.

 

hace 22 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

On the contrary, i don't have an irrational love for excal

 

En 27/4/2024 a las 21:13, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

with an irrational love for tha poster boy, my bro excal.

 

[Mr.DaburuKaramu]

vor 57 Minuten schrieb --Leyenda-yight6:

It seems like I'm talking to a wall

anything? well, he can use all the equipment you mentioned with excalibur: unairu, panzer, the same weapons, etc. just changing the shield mods for adaptation and rolling guard.

 

he already did it, like any other warframe.

 

 

 

I'll make it as clear as possible now. On a veeery basic level, all i am using is excal's 4, i can even use that and make a slash based build, a single bleed proc is enough for SP eximus, i could do that and it would work fine, it would be far less consistent though. In contrast to excal, there are frames that don't get much better with the smartest builds possible, sometimes there are specific interactions only those frames can have. Kullvero does not have excal's 4 and he won't be able to do what his 4 can do. Kullervo does not have access to follow through of 1, kullervo does not have access to a melee weapon that does exclusively corrosive and heat damage, it's always diluted with IPS and most likely disadvantagous status distribution. All Kullervo is is just crit chance and crit chance on its own will fall flat very soon. We could also do the math and you'd realize that those red crits look a lot nicer than they actually are when the build doesn't fully complement them. Slash isn't the answer to everything, if you believe it is then try your luck against high level moa eximus, just an example. Slash is the worst out of all dots in the game and, on average, is much less effective at dealing with different enemies than elemental damage builds, most notably corrosive which is at least neutral to everything except for proto shields. The same applies to heat which is by far the best possible dot effect in the game for not just one reason but a multitude. 

Endurance players really only care about scaling, of course it's entirely possible to make all frames work but some are a real hassle whereas others remain as easy to play as they are efficient at doing the job. The moment you mentioned to throw in adaptation, i instantly wanted to throw up a meal i had some time last month... You clearly don't seem to know what i've been hinting at all the time. For me, this isn't about a trivial comparison between two frames but about the high level potential they've got, and kullervo clearly falls behind when compared to an even "arguably" below average frame like excalibur. In a similar manner, i could argue that Rhino is the best frame in the game as he's got the best Roar which lets any dot build scale in the best possible way, and indeed Rhino is highly popular for a multitude of reasons. But even Rhino has shields alongside overguard which alone makes him better than kullervo at scaling into higher levels and making use of gating mechanics. Kullervo is actually just one step away from being as bad as Inaros for high level content and that's saying something. 

To put the nail in the coffin: my excal can perform better with a single ability than your kullervo with all of his at hand regardless of mission types or endurance. And still, you didn't refer to my offer to meet in the game and directly compare the effectivess of these two frames with our best builds. Of course you wouldn't because you're well aware of the fact that i'm not talking bs about excal. Still, you're trying to play your wrong assumptions down and constantly evade my points. 

 

PS: SP disruption is kindergarten compared to survival, or have you seen some ash player do survival endurance? Different frames, different purposes but Kullervo might be able to do void cascade endurance at best, anything else will be a hassle and it is on you to decide if you find enjoyment in that of which i'm certain you won't because you don't even know what levelcap is. 

Edited April 29 by Mr.DaburuKaramu

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 26 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

Kullvero does not have excal's 4 and he won't be able to do what his 4 can do

The truth is that I'm tired, all you do is talk about the level limit and you keep mentioning only the exalted one of Excalibur, what about her 2 and 3? and its passive? Do you think that a warframe that can use a mundane augment-dependent sword with various limitations is perfectly fine?

hace 27 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

Kullervo does not have access to follow through of 1

If only Kullervo had an ability that chains enemies... of course! If you have it, it is your third ability.

hace 33 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

Slash isn't the answer to everything, if you believe it is then try your luck against high level moa eximus, just an example

You mentioned Kullervo needed an armor strip, I said it doesn't need it because it can generate a lot of slash and now you're telling me to try it with an eximus MOA, are you serious?

I just tried it on moas eximus and they died much faster than I expected, I just chained them with their 3.

hace 39 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

Kullervo does not have access to follow through of 1, kullervo does not have access to a melee weapon that does exclusively corrosive and heat damage, it's always diluted with IPS and most likely disadvantagous status distribution.

The slash and red crits I got from Kullervo's 1 and chain from his 3 were more than enough power for a Nikana Prime to clear everything at level 1000, I'm not even a meta build so I don't use raw damage focused builds . and I don't care if you got to level 9999 with the exalted one, I was comparing skills, not if you could sit for 8 hours.

 

hace 56 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

and directly compare the effectivess of these two frames with our best builds. Of course you wouldn't because you're well aware of the fact that i'm not talking bs about excal. Still, you're trying to play your wrong assumptions down and constantly evade my points. 

I will never do endurance races again, I don't have the time or patience to spend hours pressing 2 buttons.

I started comparing the abilities of these 2 warframes and you haven't stopped talking about the level cap and how great the increase to their 4 is, seriously, and you say I'm the one evading?

hace 1 hora, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

SP disruption is kindergarten compared to survival, or have you seen some ash player do survival endurance?

What the hell does interruption have to do with any of this?

[Mr.DaburuKaramu]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb --Leyenda-yight6:

The truth is that I'm tired, all you do is talk about the level limit and you keep mentioning only the exalted one of Excalibur, what about her 2 and 3? and its passive? Do you think that a warframe that can use a mundane augment-dependent sword with various limitations is perfectly fine?

If only Kullervo had an ability that chains enemies... of course! If you have it, it is your third ability.

You mentioned Kullervo needed an armor strip, I said it doesn't need it because it can generate a lot of slash and now you're telling me to try it with an eximus MOA, are you serious?

I just tried it on moas eximus and they died much faster than I expected, I just chained them with their 3.

The slash and red crits I got from Kullervo's 1 and chain from his 3 were more than enough power for a Nikana Prime to clear everything at level 1000, I'm not even a meta build so I don't use raw damage focused builds . and I don't care if you got to level 9999 with the exalted one, I was comparing skills, not if you could sit for 8 hours.

 

I will never do endurance races again, I don't have the time or patience to spend hours pressing 2 buttons.

I started comparing the abilities of these 2 warframes and you haven't stopped talking about the level cap and how great the increase to their 4 is, seriously, and you say I'm the one evading?

What the hell does interruption have to do with any of this?

Kullervo = you'll die or suffer hard in high level survival.

Moa eximus, i wasn't referring to the low level ones like the ones you are capable of defeating. 

This entire convo is stupid because you fail to get even a single point i make. I can really try to hammer it home as much as i possibly can, but some people are as resistant to learning as they are to understanding. 

When i can do everything better with excal than your overhyped kullervo, why should i ever pick him and not excal? I've seen everything kullervo does and i'm legitimately not impressed. Some frames are good for low level content, some high level content frames even suck at low level content. Excal doesn't care with the way you can build him, he will be able to do it all and do it better than, yeah, a frame like kullervo who relies on crits only. What about status? The fact of the matter is, any frame can do what kullervo does with either his helminth or with just a good slash melee, all basic slash melees can kill lvl 9999 but they won't do it as quickly as other frames. Excal WILL do everything quicker than kullervo because kills per minute are a thing, especially in survival. I won't ever hit life support with excal, but what about kullervo?  

One last try: excal will do everything kullervo wants to do quicker, safer and truly infinitely scaling just with the use of a single ability and the correct build for it. Let the frame be a one trick pony, when he feels great while being that, why not? Revenant for example is only used because of his invincibility and still people aren't at all tired of him. Kullervo is one of the last picks of players that want to be able to do all content of the game with high KPM and infinite scaling because that's where he is by far worse than an ancient frame like excal - or basically any frame with shields at the very least. 

If by now you didn't get any of my point(s), then you most likely never will. But hey, play the game the way you enjoy it, it doesn't have to be my way or the way of anyone else. 

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 20 minutos, Mr.DaburuKaramu dijo:

Kullervo = you'll die or suffer hard in high level survival.

Moa eximus, i wasn't referring to the low level ones like the ones you are capable of defeating. 

This entire convo is stupid because you fail to get even a single point i make. I can really try to hammer it home as much as i possibly can, but some people are as resistant to learning as they are to understanding. 

When i can do everything better with excal than your overhyped kullervo, why should i ever pick him and not excal? I've seen everything kullervo does and i'm legitimately not impressed. Some frames are good for low level content, some high level content frames even suck at low level content. Excal doesn't care with the way you can build him, he will be able to do it all and do it better than, yeah, a frame like kullervo who relies on crits only. What about status? The fact of the matter is, any frame can do what kullervo does with either his helminth or with just a good slash melee, all basic slash melees can kill lvl 9999 but they won't do it as quickly as other frames. Excal WILL do everything quicker than kullervo because kills per minute are a thing, especially in survival. I won't ever hit life support with excal, but what about kullervo?  

One last try: excal will do everything kullervo wants to do quicker, safer and truly infinitely scaling just with the use of a single ability and the correct build for it. Let the frame be a one trick pony, when he feels great while being that, why not? Revenant for example is only used because of his invincibility and still people aren't at all tired of him. Kullervo is one of the last picks of players that want to be able to do all content of the game with high KPM and infinite scaling because that's where he is by far worse than an ancient frame like excal - or basically any frame with shields at the very least. 

If by now you didn't get any of my point(s), then you most likely never will. But hey, play the game the way you enjoy it, it doesn't have to be my way or the way of anyone else. 

how blind love is.