How Would You Build A Boss Fight?

[taiiat]

The greatest danger is Terra swiping players off the arena which makes it an auto loss.

You lose more often being flung out of the arena than dying.

forgot about this, and now i remember :(

 

70+% of my deaths in BL2? getting pushed off of cliffs by melee's, explosions, dust, nothing, etc. 

enemy would attack me, and it would do effectively 5% tops of my survivability, but push me off the map.

q.q

 

i know i could 'just stand between my enemy and a hard place at all times' - but i fail to see how that's good gameplay. that's just stupid.

 

and i never was a big fan of shooting the stuff down - it's not a bad idea, but i guess i just hate a boss forcing me to repeat the same actions constantly. it's different if i'm choosing to do stuff repeatedly because i enjoy it, but when the game effectively tells me 'do A, B, C, repeat to win'.... yawn.

 

 

edit:

i gotta admit, i giggled quite a bit doing Hyperious. i still didn't like the fight because of the mapwide AoE's - but! he was perfectly setup for a Puncture monster to just rip him a new one. he'd spawn his miniature drone army, i'd line ALL of them up, and get like, +900% damage to him. 

get. dead. 

 

edit2:

speaking of Puncture and boss fights. for the Badass Crater of Badassitude - destroying the dragon tank thing at the end, that was the most silly boss fight ever. i shot at it a few times, and my Puncture killed it in like 5 bullets. 

was liek wut.

Edited November 26, 2013 by taiiat

[fatpig84]

Except for Warframe, your typical War frame bot is far more mobile than your typical hick in BL2.

 

So we should make boss fights to do that that. Encourage movement (you can kill lephantis in the 2nd stage just by standing on the 2nd ledge anyway instead of running around electrified water) and the Warframes ability to dodge or take a hit to our advantage.

 

Smart shooting to nullifying attacks, yes bombard missiles can be shot down for example.

 

Heck, Ruk's skills already encourage movement, since his attacks have huge AOEs which can be dodged, if you are smart about it.

Edited November 26, 2013 by fatpig84

[Witchhammer]

i really cant remember the last time i enjoyed a "bossfight".

so what i would do to make a great bossfight is

1. Give the Boss a stage - that means not only the boss will be a much smarter version of standard enemys instead the whole way to the "boss" should be an event to make players feel like a special assasination unit. That means in my eyes there should be more puzzles that needs every of the 4 players to participate or you wont even get further.

2. Seperate the players while fighting the way to the boss so everyone needs to take his part of the cake but provide the progress of the team

And if its just a 4 pressure plate system that unlocks an important door

3. Involve pure skill instead of massive damage. Bosses shouldnt always be massive badasses but should be able to keep players CC´d for a long time so that its more kind of ultra annoying than devastating. Well in other cases it should be vice versa.

4. Use existing gameplay mchanics for example boss gets an impenetratable shield and while taunting the players they must lure the boss away from a console that one teammember can decrypt the shielding computer till the shield drops.

5. Use dynamic behavior. So we can avoid that once a pattern has been learned you can do the boss while sleeping. Players must have a chance to learn things ad react th the things they see. For example, "oh my god the boss got a red aura !!! time to break LOS or ill get devastated/frozen"

6. Absolutely just get rid of the "jump onto him and dps him down" Even in a FPS that doesnt make sense at all.

7. Make it long , make it intense, make it replayable. Avoid doing it boring. Slowdown Events and gameplay for that special moments to enjoy.

[r0ckwolf]

Building a boss in Warframe? That takes many steps, and it doesn't just include making the boss itself have strong attacks. Many factors go into making a good boss.

First comes, bet you never guessed it, LORE. Introducing this boss to the players, NOT just through some limited time event that new players will never experience for themselves, but throughout the planet that he/she/it resides in. Dialogue, events, even surprise early encounters. Imagine if you're doing a mission in Neptune, working your way to Psamathe, and suddenly the Lotus warns you that some sort of high energy reading is approaching you. Suddenly the doors open and in comes a Hyena. After a tough fight, the Lotus tells you she's looking into the mysterious new proxy, and it turns out it is one of the new Anti-Personnel super proxies that the Corpus are researching, and you have to get to Psamathe to take out their production facility. Good lore-making builds up anticipation and atmosphere, it makes players EXCITED for the fight.

Of course, now that you've built up the boss, it's time for the fight itself. Even then there are two things you need to consider, the boss itself, and the arena it resides in. The arena needs to build upon the fight and not just look good. For example, a sniper boss like Nef Anyo should have an arena that's full of platforms and terrain of varying elevation (such as boxes), which can provide Anyo with a height advantage and an element of ambush when combined with his cloaking, and give players cover to avoid his shots. In the case of Alad and Zanuka, the arena should have more pillars, walls, places for Zanuka to perform that epic parkour it was doing in the trailer, which can also be used by smart players to their own advantage.

As for the boss itself, it needs to be based off its own unique theme and/or gimmick, which is based on established lore. For example, Vay Hek is supposed to be crafty and cunning, unpredictable. Hyenas rely on teamwork as they hunt as a group. Zanuka is an agile powerhouse of pain, while Alad is the cowardly puppetmaster of Zanuka. Nef Anyo is frail, but utilises top notch defensive technology with his money (i.e. Environmental structures can play a huge part in the fight). Their movesets are then based off of these factors.

Once the theme of their movesets has been decided, the movesets themselves also need to follow a few rules. 1. All offensive powers must be dodgable with player skill. Player gear level plays a secondary role. 2. The more powerful an attack is, or the harder it is to avoid, the more significant and lengthy should the "tell" be, so that players get a shot at avoiding it even on the first run if they're cautious enough.

Once you've come up with a complete moveset for the boss, simply split it into two or three phases. For the boss' survivability, designating a weakpoint is usually the best way to go. Otherwise, designating a "vulnerability" period, such as after certain attacks, also works, or even can be used in conjunction with weakpoints, such as with Ruk.

Basically, the art of making a good boss fight is VERY complicated, and it just feels like DE is too lazy or simply too uninterested in it to make truly interesting bosses.

This is a very good summary on how bosses should work in warframe and in generall. It´s  fun and immersive. I was really thinking that DE had understood this and was heading in the right direction with bosses since Vor, but Alad V is the oppposite again. This is such a good comment, you should make it into an own thread dude and forward it to DE_Rebecca.

The only thing i would add, since i really miss it. Is an cinematic introduction to each planet, kinnda like the Tutorial introduces you to mercury and Vor. 

[BETAOPTICS]

Well yeah. I think many were hoping to test their skills and I'm glad they changed it around a bit. I still wish that Alad V himself would fight more and be even more fearsome as he is the master of science and technology. I also wish Zanuka was more mobile, would use more abilities and maybe there should be a second one. Then again this is a talk of a veteran, looking for a challenge in a low level, low tier planet so take my words as they are. Maybe one day we will have a mode where the bosses possess a real challenge.

[Scherhardt]

In WF the planet bosses are fine as it is easy to farm though I would really prefer hard and frustrating bosses over easy ones for it builds my mental fortitude. 

Raid bosses however should be in a different category, they should be really hard,challenging and frustrating.

 

I would not attempt to build a boss. Many would prolly hate me.