Lore questions Spoilers maybe i dont know?

[GrayArchon]

10 hours ago, Loza03 said:

if that's the case, Erra betrays Ballas

If Erra is being controlled by Ballas, it's not a betrayal to fight back against him when possible.

10 hours ago, Loza03 said:

cool motive, still betrayal.

In the same vein, who is Hunhow betraying by siding with us in the New War? Hunhow's main antagonist was the Orokin. He may have been working with Ballas in the Old War, but now Ballas is the only Orokin left. Erra is either not in control or deceived; Hunhow doesn't view him as culpable. Although Hunhow is sort of fighting against the Sentients in the New War, I find it pretty hard to call it a betrayal.

10 hours ago, Loza03 said:

it's made very clear that Pazuul is some form of separate entity, and that he and the Archons are manipulating Erra in several Lotus quotes.  Erra was their boss, now he's their slave. That's pretty cut-and-dry betrayal.

Ah yes, I sometimes forget Pazuul is a separate entity. In that sense the Archons absolutely betrayed Erra.

6 hours ago, Atsia said:

Didn't DE or Steve say at some point that Pazuul got put on Erra by some automatic process by Praghasa?

I have suggested this in the past. I'm not aware of any comments by DE, though it's very possible I missed it. It should be noted that by the time we got Veilbreaker and Pazuul, Steve had publicly stepped down as Creative Director for Warframe, so I don't imagine he's said anything about this.

[Loza03]

10 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

If Erra is being controlled by Ballas, it's not a betrayal to fight back against him when possible.

It is in the literal sense of the term, which is what matters for my point.

Betrayal has a very negative connotation, but objectively here, Erra is turning his back on one allegiance in favour of another. Whilst he was certainly under some level of control, he does argue with Hunhow in favour of working with Ballas at one point suggesting that he is willingly doing this, if presumably under false pretences. In turn, that makes his heel/face turn a betrayal of his original goals.

The point that I'm making is that Sentients are fiercly independent. I'm not putting a moral judgement on any of these betrayals (as a matter of fact, several are outright moral in my opinion, but history written by the victors and all that) - I'm simply noting how common it is for Sentient minds to openly work against each other, and thus how dubious it is that they've managed to make a united or even fully organised front back at Tau because of that.

If I had to hazard a guess, it's probably resembling a series of loose coalitions or tribes of a few sentient minds each. Partly because that tracks with what we already know, and partly because that provides space for gameplay in a hypothetical Tau expansion with the players having something to defend and allies to talk with and safe places to go.

10 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

In the same vein, who is Hunhow betraying by siding with us in the New War? Hunhow's main antagonist was the Orokin. He may have been working with Ballas in the Old War, but now Ballas is the only Orokin left. Erra is either not in control or deceived; Hunhow doesn't view him as culpable. Although Hunhow is sort of fighting against the Sentients in the New War, I find it pretty hard to call it a betrayal.

It isn't in the literal sense (in that Hunhow's actions don't put Tau in any danger), but it is fair to note that we do know he was not alone in his opposition of the Orokin, given that we have confirmation at least one other Sentient Mind hated them as much as he did (the Eidolon). So, it's more of an ideological betrayal - he clearly views, or did view, the Tenno and the society of the Origin system as Orokin (given his 'Orokin Alad V' quote), but he abandons at least acting on this belief and allies with the Tenno, knowing full well that the protection of the Origin system is their overall goal. If he was in contact with his old allies in Tau (assuming there were any left), I don't think they'd agree with those actions.