Eclipse DR is likely too Strong

[CrownOfShadows]

18 minutes ago, AegidiusF said:

Yes, I agree with most of what you said (sorry, I was still writing my previous post when I posted it by mistake - I added some other little points).

An additionnal layer of DR (ability or Mod) stacking multiplicatively is different from increasing a layer of DR (armor), but no matter how they stack, at the end it's to toal DR that counts.

The part I don't really agree is the 75% DR is too high, because, as said before, it gives about 81% total DR to the squishiest frame. For the frames with high DR, it's useless, because it stacks multiplicatively and will represent a little DR increase. It would only let some squishier frames tank a little better, but this will not make them tankier than tanky frames (by tanky frames, I'm not only talking about frames that have high armor value, like Chroma and Valkyr,, but also about frames that have DR abilities, like Trinity and Baruuk).

Yes, sounds like we're on the same page, but just to make sure let's take Valkyr as an example. My umbral Valkyr gets 87.3% DR from her armor. If she runs adaptation on top of that, she gets 90% damage reduction on incoming damage before it even hits the armor. Then, if there's something like Eclipse it actually stacks on top of all of that. So they all layer over each other.

So 10,000 incoming damage gets reduced first by Eclipse (75%), then that damage hits Adaptation (assuming fully stacked, is cut by 90% *although adaptation has some major holes in it but that's another rant) and then lastly it hits the armor, and the armor in my Valkyr example is 87.3%.

• So Eclipse's 75% off of 10,000 = 2,500
• Adaptation's 90% off of 2,500 = 250
• (Shields go here, and they have their own native DR, but for simplicity we're ignoring them here)
• Armor's 87.3% off of 250 = 31.75

So the amount of work Eclipse (or any ability DR) is putting in is pretty substantial - the first line of defense does the most work. Without eclipse, the final number is 127, which is ~4x the final received damage in this case. (Note, I am pretty confident in the math here but I suck at math as a rule so feel free to double check my work). Of course, frames with much weaker armor stats will also suffer more final damage in their last line of defense. Having something like 40% Armor DR with these numbers would result in 150 final damage.

However, in the case of frames like Baruuk, who is already running an ability DR at 90%, I believe eclipse in DR mode would be completely useless as it doesn't layer over Baruuk's (to the best of my knowledge - but some ability DRs do actually stack with each other I believe, which is craziness).

So frames who have native DR aren't really going to be too interested, but any frame that doesn't should certainly be tempted if they are looking for survival options. Tanks like Valkyr  will still benefit a great deal, as it's another entire layer of protection that significantly reduces the amount of work their armor must do.

[AegidiusF]

Le 04/03/2024 à 12:17, CrownOfShadows a dit :

My umbral Valkyr gets 87.3% DR from her armor. If she runs adaptation on top of that, she gets 90% damage reduction on incoming damage before it even hits the armor. Then, if there's something like Eclipse it actually stacks on top of all of that. So they all layer over each other.

I agree, but when I said that frames that already have high DR would get little benefit from Eclipse was in terms of DR increase. your Umbral Valkyr (by the way, excellent choice🐱) will have 98.73% DR without Eclipse and 99.68% DR with Eclipse : it added less than 1% of DR.

But a frame like Banshee that has only 25.9% DR, will reach 81.48% DR : Eclipse added 55.58% of DR. As Eclipse is multiplicative, it will be very efficient on big values and less effective on small values.

Le 04/03/2024 à 12:17, CrownOfShadows a dit :

So 10,000 incoming damage gets reduced first by Eclipse (75%), then that damage hits Adaptation (assuming fully stacked, is cut by 90% *although adaptation has some major holes in it but that's another rant) and then lastly it hits the armor, and the armor in my Valkyr example is 87.3%.

• So Eclipse's 75% off of 10,000 = 2,500
• Adaptation's 90% off of 2,500 = 250
• (Shields go here, and they have their own native DR, but for simplicity we're ignoring them here)
• Armor's 87.3% off of 250 = 31.75

So the amount of work Eclipse (or any ability DR) is putting in is pretty substantial - the first line of defense does the most work. Without eclipse, the final number is 127, which is ~4x the final received damage in this case. (Note, I am pretty confident in the math here but I suck at math as a rule so feel free to double check my work). Of course, frames with much weaker armor stats will also suffer more final damage in their last line of defense. Having something like 40% Armor DR with these numbers would result in 150 final damage.

Your math is perfect. 👍

And your remark on Adaptation is perfect too, as it gives low protection against Blast damage, and most of the time Blast damage caused by enemies are very high (that's why Blitz Eximus are very dangerous). This is very important and very often not taken into consideration. Not to mention that it will grow DR only for one of the incoming damage types, all the others will not make Adaptation stacks grow up. I know, you said that this is another rant, but it's really very important if we take Adaptation into consideration for DR.

The difference between the two incoming damages 127 (without Eclipse) and 32 (with Eclipse) is not really from the DR, but because of the huge value (10,000). If I'm not wrong, 10,000 is the amount of damage a level 530 Bombard radial blast can do.

On Steel Path average level (about 150), this Bombard will make about 1,400 damage (damage multiplier = about 35), and it's already very annoying because of the damage type (Blast) and also because of Grineer Corrosive and Fire attacks, that will reduce your Armor. We talked previously about the difference between DR from armor and DR from abilities and this is a huge difference that we haven't talked about yet : DR from armor can be reduced by some status effects (Corrosive and Fire) that are very often caused by Grineer weapons.

Most of the time (I do it too), when we talk about DR, we forget that DR is a dynamic value that can variate a lot. DR from Adaptation is not that reliable and DR from Armor can be halved (or go even lower) very fast. Only DR from some abilities are reliable, as they are static and can't change. High static DR are given by some abilities like Nezha's Warding Halo (90%) or Gara's Splinter Storm (90%), Mesa's Shatter Shields gives 95% DR (only against projectiles).

I'm saying that because what math shows are the Max DR values, not the current values. If you are surrounded by enemies and taking some status effects, you probably have already lost some armor and you have perhaps built adaptation to its Max for some kinds of damage, but not for the rarest ones (as Blast) and against this kind of damage, while affected by Flame status effect, your DR will be much lower than the Max value we calculate.

If you remember, Sentients used to be immune to status effects and they were really tough, but the devs changed that, without changig their "Adaptation", and the result is that Sentients are very easy now.

Le 04/03/2024 à 12:17, CrownOfShadows a dit :

However, in the case of frames like Baruuk, who is already running an ability DR at 90%, I believe eclipse in DR mode would be completely useless as it doesn't layer over Baruuk's (to the best of my knowledge - but some ability DRs do actually stack with each other I believe, which is craziness).

So frames who have native DR aren't really going to be too interested, but any frame that doesn't should certainly be tempted if they are looking for survival options. Tanks like Valkyr  will still benefit a great deal, as it's another entire layer of protection that significantly reduces the amount of work their armor must do.

I mostly agree, but would add that what Eclipse will bring to the game is a static DR that will give players more options in terms of warframe for some misions.

Normally, all abilities DR stack multiplicatively. There are layers of DR : Armor, Mods (each mod is a layer : Adaptation stacks multiplicatively with Aviator, as an exemple), Abilities (each different DR ability is a layer : classical exemple : Trinity's Link (75%) and Blessing (75%) stacking multiplicatively to give her 93.75% DR, that will stack multiplicatively with Mods and Armor).

 

Also, the nerf of Eclipse damage buff is perhaps enough to prevent this ability from becoming too popular. As the Helminth versions of Eclipse and Roar will give both 30% damage buff (base value), the only difference between them will be the fact that Roar works as a Bane Mod, applying its multiplier twice for the calculation of status damage, while Eclipse applies only once. So, for Damage, Roar will have some advanage over Eclipse, but Eclipse will have the advantage for defense by granting DR and by reducing enemy accuracy. This, in my opinion, with the nerf of Nourish, will make Roar even more popular than Eclipse, as players are most of the time searching for more damage.

Edited March 6 by AegidiusF
Some additions at the end of the post

[Aevire]

Would love to see a large scale pass on damage reduction and damage scaling in general. Nearly every source of damage reduction is multiplicative with every other source of DR without diminishing returns and spending longer than an hour in most steel path endless missions will still get you one shot even with all of that. I think that if they want Eclipse to be a weakened version of Roar but also a damage reduction ability it should not be that much stronger than Null Star, which is a pure damage reduction ability already subsumable to Helminth. I don't necessarily have a problem with the cap being 90% if the base number for the Helminth version of the ability is 30% or less, so 300% Power Strength (a hefty build requirement) is required for the full DR, but I would prefer to see the cap lowered. 75% is a reasonable cap but I could also see 80%, which would still make it half as effective at DR as Null Star.

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

I think too many are failing to see the forest through the trees, respectfully.

 

Balancing it against other Helminth options isn't the answer.

Those options ARE NOT USED.

They are not used because they are not effective or not worth the build requirements.

Null Star should not be our balance point. The range reduction, duration need, and mandatory augment make it unviable for most builds.

Null Star is custom made to work with Nova's dump stat being range.

Very few frames can dump range.

 

Also, 300% power strength isn't realistic with even a semi balanced build.

Can it be achieved?

Sure.

Is it realistic.

No.

Not without extreme sacrifices somewhere else.

 

That appears to be balance, right?

Sacrificing here to gain there...

...but it's not, because the sacrifice is too great, making it not worth it.

 

You guys keep wanting to "balance" the the part that no one uses against abilities that no one uses....

 

It needs to be an attractive option.

90% dmg resist at 200% power strength is attractive.

Otherwise it will remain unused, so what would be the point?

It isn't subsumed for the damage resist. It is subsumed because some Youtuber said "more damage, bigger numbers" and most people just follow the build.

[Toa_Ignika]

23 minutes ago, (XBOX)INe Saninus said:

Also, 300% power strength isn't realistic with even a semi balanced build.

Can it be achieved?

Sure.

Is it realistic.

No.

Not without extreme sacrifices somewhere else.

It's 2024, 300% strength is really easy to reach : Blind Rage(99%)  + Molt Augmented (60%) + 3 Tauforged Crimson Shards (45%), let's not forget about Madurai that can provide 40%, the efficiency you lost ? Not really a problem, we have so many ways to regenerate energy, and if ever you could always slot Streamline to negate a part of the drain.

Also that would still leave you with 1 Arcane slot,2 Shards and 6 or 7 mods for your build, which is more than enough for any balance build.

 

Will Eclipse be too strong as a defensive ability after Dante's Unbound ? Dunno, and tbh I dont really care, it's going to be the only reliable DR ability we'll have so by itself it's good.

[CrownOfShadows]

6 hours ago, AegidiusF said:

I'm saying that because what math shows are the Max DR values, not the current values. If you are surrounded by enemies and taking some status effects, you probably have already lost some armor and you have perhaps built adaptation to its Max for some kinds of damage, but not for the raret ones (as Blast) and against this kind of damage, while affected by Flame status effect, your DR will be much lower than the Max value we calculate.

I've actually searched high and low for this information. I could never verify for the life of me that Tenno armor is reduced by enemy heat. I mean, I would assume it would since we do take status procs, but I wouldn't be surprised if the devs decided against that. Are you pretty confident this is the case?

This is also why I've pushed for better HUD stats on our current total DR and Armor, there's a lot of ambiguities that info would help clear up.

[Tiltskillet]

33 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

I've actually searched high and low for this information. I could never verify for the life of me that Tenno armor is reduced by enemy heat. I mean, I would assume it would since we do take status procs, but I wouldn't be surprised if the devs decided against that. Are you pretty confident this is the case?

This is also why I've pushed for better HUD stats on our current total DR and Armor, there's a lot of ambiguities that info would help clear up.

In the Sim a Butcher was causing me 13 damage with 684 armor normally, and it looked like it went up slightly with heat status.  Because the heat dot makes it tricky to separate the heat dot from other damage I'm not certain though.  It'd be easier with video, but I don't have access to that at the moment.

[Cyrefy]

DR is temporary, and in a game where there is shieldgate, Resonator and Cloak Arrow I don't think a DR of 90% would be more overpowering than it already is, besides you would be sacrificing the possibility of having some strong extra damage like the damage buff itself from eclipse, nourich or roar, what's the point of surviving until the level cap if you don't deal damage... I think it would just be another build possibility.

[CrownOfShadows]

5 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

In the Sim a Butcher was causing me 13 damage with 684 armor normally, and it looked like it went up slightly with heat status.  Because the heat dot makes it tricky to separate the heat dot from other damage I'm not certain though.  It'd be easier with video, but I don't have access to that at the moment.

Hm it might be easier to check on corrosive? But there aren't a lot of enemies with that. I'll see if I can track one down and do some tests.

I originally had this question spawn in my mind because Radiation supposedly turns off auras (of confused enemies, likely because they aren't on anyone's team and so the auras wouldn't know who to benefit), BUT tenno also become 'confused' by radiation and so is it turning off our auras? I have no clue, I couldn't find anything about it - have to wait for a radiation sortie to test that one probably.

But then I was like.... hm, wait, do any enemies use viral against us? And does it have the same effect? I couldn't confirm this either. BUT when a tenno is 'confused' by radiation I feel like viral is definitely being used against us in that situation? But is it working the same. And radiation also technically reduces armor - so is that working on us? So many questions, so little documentation. Fortunately none of that comes up very often, but heat is pretty common from what I can tell (and I can't tell a lot, because we have extremely poor info about what enemies are actually doing to us - i have no clue how much heat damage hits us over the course of an average mission or how low our armor might be dipping as a result - very frustrating).

Edited March 5 by CrownOfShadows

[Tiltskillet]

16 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Hm it might be easier to check on corrosive?

I actually tried that first, but there are only four corrosive capable enemies listed in the wiki (I don't know if it's complete or not.) and the three I have scanned did not seem able to inflict corrosive status. 

The one I don't have scanned is the Artificer, which doesn't appear in the game any longer.   It apparently had a Stug so it might be a promising one if anybody has it scanned and wants to give it a shot.

Edited March 5 by Tiltskillet

[Arbitrary]

31 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I actually tried that first, but there are only four corrosive capable enemies listed in the wiki (I don't know if it's complete or not.) and the three I have scanned did not seem able to inflict corrosive status. 

You can use Mind Control + Venom Dose/Nourish to make an arbitrary enemy proc Corrosive/Viral (Mind Controlled enemies retain buffs after Mind Control's duration expires).

From my own test with an Amalgam Moa (high status, 6 base damage), enemies are limited to one stack of Corrosive (more broadly any debuff proc) which functions the same as our Corrosive, removing 26% of your total armor.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Arbitrary said:

You can use Mind Control + Venom Dose/Nourish to make an arbitrary enemy proc Corrosive/Viral (Mind Controlled enemies retain buffs after Mind Control's duration expires).

From my own test with an Amalgam Moa (high status, 6 base damage), enemies are limited to one stack of Corrosive (more broadly any debuff proc) which functions the same as our Corrosive, removing 26% of your total armor.

Good stuff.

[Silligoose]

On 2024-03-03 at 12:21 PM, CrownOfShadows said:

OK, so I'm probably way too late to the part on this one, DE has probably already decided and implemented everything, but as long as I'm ruffling feathers let's talk about Eclipse's DR. Forget about the damage aspect for a minute and just focus on the DR.

90% is too strong, end of story, imo. The only reason eclipse wasn't too strong before was because it was a dice roll (or flat out broken).

YES, some frame - a lot of frames - will really appreciate this, there's no denying that. Slap this on Banshee, Loki... anyone, and their EHP goes through the roof instantly. They become massively survivable - which is not necessarily a bad thing exactly, a lot of frames struggle to keep up in that department and for this reason a lot of people have wanted a reliable helminth DR.

Ok, great. BUT... let's think for a minute about what this will do to the already strong warframes. (Now I know what you're thinking... but.... but won't it just put all these frames on par with the frames that already have DR in their kits, like won't it make Banshee equivalent to Mirage? Well, yes and no, because each frame - I assume - was balanced around their individual kit and not around helminths. Was Banshee ever meant to have 90% DR? No. Why not though? Because her fragility is the balance for her strengths. Suddenly make her not fragile anymore - and she becomes too strong, there's no sacrifice).

The same goes every monster frame. Slap 90% DR on Saryn? On Mesa? on Baruuk? On Gyre? On Protea? On any frame that already has DR??

I fear this will be a MASSIVE power creep for the ENTIRE roster, and I'm worried. There would be no downside. No tradeoff. Just toggle on DR and forget about everything.

So... uh... too late to the party but... how about just 65%-70% DR on subsumed eclipse?

Some games can get away with some crazy numbers while still having a semblance of decent balance, but in the case of Warframe and abilities having 90% DR, DE simply can't balance some frames having that and others not. It is why some frames get one-shot by enemies that other frames laugh at. 90%+ DR on an on/off switch via abilities is too much, be it on Eclipse, Warding Halo, Null Star etc, Helminth'ed or not. DE can't balance enemy damage output properly as a result.

 

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 16 heures, CrownOfShadows a dit :

I've actually searched high and low for this information. I could never verify for the life of me that Tenno armor is reduced by enemy heat. I mean, I would assume it would since we do take status procs, but I wouldn't be surprised if the devs decided against that. Are you pretty confident this is the case?

This is also why I've pushed for better HUD stats on our current total DR and Armor, there's a lot of ambiguities that info would help clear up.

There are some differences on the way status effects work on the Tenno/Warframe, but they are usually mentionned. I remember being a bit worried when they announced some buffs for Cold status, but at the end it works only for enemies.

Normally, Flame and Corrosive works on the warframe and remove some armor.

I've forgotten to mention something very important before : Slash status ! It bypasses armor, but not DR from abilities or mods. In this case, your current DR against Slash status DoT is lower, because one layer of DR (armor) is not taken into consideration. Anti-satus abilities can protect you from that, of course.

Also, headshot multipliers must be taken into account, as they are not that rare.

Il y a 9 heures, Arbitrary a dit :

From my own test with an Amalgam Moa (high status, 6 base damage), enemies are limited to one stack of Corrosive (more broadly any debuff proc) which functions the same as our Corrosive, removing 26% of your total armor.

Excellent idea and a great thanks for the information ! 👍

[CrownOfShadows]

14 hours ago, Arbitrary said:

You can use Mind Control + Venom Dose/Nourish to make an arbitrary enemy proc Corrosive/Viral (Mind Controlled enemies retain buffs after Mind Control's duration expires).

From my own test with an Amalgam Moa (high status, 6 base damage), enemies are limited to one stack of Corrosive (more broadly any debuff proc) which functions the same as our Corrosive, removing 26% of your total armor.

Nice! So yeah pretty safe to assume heat is also reducing our armor. Now the impossible question of how much how often... (I guess we just have to operate under the vague fear of it, and understand that our armor is constantly in flux - which makes ability DR that much more valuable)

4 hours ago, AegidiusF said:

I've forgotten to mention something very important before : Slash status ! It bypasses armor, but not DR from abilities or mods. In this case, your current DR against Slash status DoT is lower, because one layer of DR (armor) is not taken into consideration. Anti-satus abilities can protect you from that, of course.

Also, headshot multipliers must be taken into account, as they are not that rare.

This is a really good point about slash, it's basically like toxin for armor - and actually toxin bypasses all our shield DR (and the shield gate), so that's another thing ability DR is really good for.

Wait, do enemies get headshot multipliers on us? That's actually crazy, is it the same multiplier I wonder?

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 2 heures, CrownOfShadows a dit :

Wait, do enemies get headshot multipliers on us? That's actually crazy, is it the same multiplier I wonder?

I don't know if it's the same multiplier, but there is a multiplier. I'll try to find out more information on this. 

I also tested Corrosive and Fire status on the Simulacrum, using the method developped by @Arbitrary as inspiration. I asked my husband to use Hydroid's Barrage on me (friend fire active) and Corrosive was stacking up to 8 stacks. Fire, up to 6. I noticed that damage was increasing, but I don't know exactly by how much. Also, one of the advantages of the new HUD icons texts, is that we can see what are the effects of status on the warframe (picture below, text in French, sorry).

The Wiki says that Corrosive reduces warframe armor by 26% and that Fire status reduces armor by 50%, but I wasn't able to verify these numbers, sorry. (Entry "Damage", on the Wiki) . If this is correct (Arbitrary also found 26% for Corrosive armor réduction), Fire status is much more dangerous than Corrosive (very weird, in my opinion). 

 

 

Edited March 5 by AegidiusF

[Arbitrary]

10 minutes ago, AegidiusF said:

I asked my husband to use Hydroid's Barrage on me (friend fire active) and Corrosive was stacking up to 8 stacks. Fire, up to 6

That's the proc duration, not stacks.

[CrownOfShadows]

1 hour ago, Arbitrary said:

That's the proc duration, not stacks.

Interesting, what's the number just to the right of it? The zero?    [duration],0

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Wait, do enemies get headshot multipliers on us? That's actually crazy, is it the same multiplier I wonder?

I don't know, but the following patch note implies they can or could:

 

Hotfix 35.0.9 (2024-01-17)

• Removed the ability for enemies to deal critical hits to players, Defense targets, Extractors, Rescue targets, and all other friendly targets.
  • In most cases, enemies equipped with “player” weapons (Grineer Ballista using the Vulkar for example) could land critical hits due to those weapons using the same crit setup as their player counterpart. With a lack of feedback to inform players as to why or how sudden damage spikes were occurring, these enemies could easily jeopardize a mission. Additionally, while it makes sense to reward players for landing critical headshots, whether an enemy hits a head or not is outside of player control - which ultimately made countering it near impossible. So, in an effort to provide more consistent and predictable damage output from enemies, we have removed their ability to deal critical hits.

I read that as most likely meaning they can still inflict headshots, just not criticals or critical headshots.

[CrownOfShadows]

11 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I don't know, but the following patch note implies they can or could:

 

Hotfix 35.0.9 (2024-01-17)

• Removed the ability for enemies to deal critical hits to players, Defense targets, Extractors, Rescue targets, and all other friendly targets.
  • In most cases, enemies equipped with “player” weapons (Grineer Ballista using the Vulkar for example) could land critical hits due to those weapons using the same crit setup as their player counterpart. With a lack of feedback to inform players as to why or how sudden damage spikes were occurring, these enemies could easily jeopardize a mission. Additionally, while it makes sense to reward players for landing critical headshots, whether an enemy hits a head or not is outside of player control - which ultimately made countering it near impossible. So, in an effort to provide more consistent and predictable damage output from enemies, we have removed their ability to deal critical hits.

I read that as most likely meaning they can still inflict headshots, just not criticals or critical headshots.

That's right I forgot about this but I remember when it happened. Hm. Agreed it does sound like they can / or could. It's pretty unclear if headhosts were removed at the same time - it could read either way. Headshot multipliers are really good (if they work the same as ours), so if they were worried about crits then they were probably worried about headshots too, and their comments indicate they were trying to eliminate spikes in damage, so it's probably a good bet that the answer is 'they used to be able to' - but yeah at the very end it definitely reads more like maybe they were just eliminating criticals, idk.

Edited March 5 by CrownOfShadows

[Tiltskillet]

19 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Interesting, what's the number just to the right of it? The zero?    [duration],0

That's just tenths of a second.  Although enemy heat procs  just tick down from 6.0 to 5.0 and so on rather than displaying actual tenths.

[Arbitrary]

17 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Interesting, what's the number just to the right of it? The zero?    [duration],0

The "," is a numeric separator. The US equivalent of "8,0" is 8.0

[CrownOfShadows]

1 minute ago, Tiltskillet said:

That's just tenths of a second.  Although enemy heat procs  just tick down from 6.0 to 5.0 and so on rather than displaying actual tenths.

Aha, ok sorry, I was tripping out for a second I'm not used to commas being there haha

[Tiltskillet]

2 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

That's right I forgot about this but I remember when it happened. Hm. Agreed it does sound like they can / or could. It's pretty unclear if headhosts were removed at the same time - it could read either way. Headshot multipliers are really good (if they work the same as ours), so if they were worried about crits then they were probably worried about headshots too, and their comments indicate they were trying to eliminate spikes in damage, so it's probably a good bet that the answer is 'they used to be able to'.

Yeah, I agree it could be read into that way, though it's not what they said.  (And maybe it's not as simple a matter to remove enemy headshots as it is enemy crits.  For example, hypothetically maybe that would have an unwanted effect on Conclave without special coding.)

OTOH there are often differences between the literal interpretation of patch notes and the in-game effect.

 

[Raikh]

In a world of shield gating and a myriad of ways to spam regenerate shields I do not think a 75% or even 90% Damage Reduction is anything outrageous anymore.

What it really does is make survivability for some Frames more comfortable, let Frames take damage for a while longer as enemy level goes up. Stacking it on top of Frames already possessing a ton of eHP likely doesn't do a lot and you'd be generally better off using a Subsume that increases performance or adds significant utility. You don't get it for free in the literal sense afterall, it still competes with other Subsumes and some of them can be way more build making than DR.

Enemy Damage scaling vs Player eHP and means of scaling said eHP are so out of sync that something that should normally be crazy valuable becomes a limited form of comfort moreso than anything gamebreaking or too good to pass up.

I honestly just think its nice to have if you can't be asked to play around shield gating before it becomes more or less necessary. Maybe it helps some Frames gain popularity as they now may become easier to keep alive up to a certain point, which is only a good thing in my book.