Solo SP Circuit Cap Frames?

[Birdframe_Prime]

3 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

When it comes to coding, there exist ways to go far beyond the value of 2147 millions. A reliable system with approximations could allow us to enjoy numbers with over a hundred digits (think about incremental games) so there's no excuse to tornadoes breaking in a split second. They could absolutely be fixed without nerfing the elemental synergy and the damage absorption.

They do exist.

Do they exist in the Evolution Engine, though? Because I'm certain that if they did, DE would already be using them. And for fixing one function on one ability, going to the trouble of adding things like that? That's a consistent thing of DE not doing that (like the option to cast Helminth abilities on Merulina, they would rather Augment her to make Yareli not be riding Merulina to allow Helminth abilities to be cast as normal, rather than coding the abilities into K-Drive movement).

So... we'll see?

[VibingCat]

7 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

They do exist.

Do they exist in the Evolution Engine, though? Because I'm certain that if they did, DE would already be using them. And for fixing one function on one ability, going to the trouble of adding things like that? That's a consistent thing of DE not doing that (like the option to cast Helminth abilities on Merulina, they would rather Augment her to make Yareli not be riding Merulina to allow Helminth abilities to be cast as normal, rather than coding the abilities into K-Drive movement).

So... we'll see?

It could be fixed in many ways, even without using advanced techniques. For example, remove the damage cap completely, let them redirect damage no matter what. Then, check which damage was dealt the most in the last x seconds and that will be the tornadoes' damage type. 

Feel free to check my bug report here:

 

Edited March 16 by VibingCat

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, VibingCat said:

For example, remove the damage cap completely

That's the thing, I don't know that they can easily do that. Everything that actually takes damage (which they need to for the calculation) needs a health pool in the Evolution Engine, we know that from previous comments they've made on DevStreams, and from testing. Health pools in the Evolution Engine cannot be infinite.

It's not a problem on other abilities, as I mentioned, because they take base damage and then calculate it out. So they'll never take enough damage to 'break' the way Tornado funnels do. Because Tornado takes modified damage, and has its own feedback loop for any damage type that then creates radial damage, you can reach damage levels that affect enemies with EHP in the hundreds of millions. Meaning that even if you make the health pool in the hundreds of billions range, there's still a chance to break them.

So... that's what I meant about 'does it exist in The Evolution Engine'. There are limits to DE's engine.

[VibingCat]

1 minute ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

That's the thing, I don't know that they can easily do that. Everything that actually takes damage (which they need to for the calculation) needs a health pool in the Evolution Engine, we know that from previous comments they've made on DevStreams, and from testing. Health pools in the Evolution Engine cannot be infinite.

It's not a problem on other abilities, as I mentioned, because they take base damage and then calculate it out. So they'll never take enough damage to 'break' the way Tornado funnels do. Because Tornado takes modified damage, and has its own feedback loop for any damage type that then creates radial damage, you can reach damage levels that affect enemies with EHP in the hundreds of millions. Meaning that even if you make the health pool in the hundreds of billions range, there's still a chance to break them.

So... that's what I meant about 'does it exist in The Evolution Engine'. There are limits to DE's engine.

They could be unbreakable without having to use big numbers, just like bedrock in Minecraft. The damage pool required to change their elemental type should be separate. After all, at high levels, the only types that matter are viral, corrosive, magnetic or cold because tornadoes don't deal much damage, but these status effects could help.

[Birdframe_Prime]

15 hours ago, VibingCat said:

They could be unbreakable without having to use big numbers, just like bedrock in Minecraft.

I think you're missing the key point here; DE have said that, in order for something to calculate the damage it takes (for chaining down the line or charging up another effect) specifically in The Evolution Engine (which is what Warframe is coded in), that thing has to be able to take damage in the first place.

You can't make an entity (and let's be clear, that entity can be spawned like Mallet or Tornado, or invisible like Iron Skin and Warding Halo's charge portion) not take damage and then also calculate the damage it takes. Not in this game engine. You can't calculate something from damage it didn't take.

When you see something appearing not to take damage, and it instead calculates a new effect, like Iron Skin or similar, that's the game generating a new 'entity' (an invisible health bar, if you will) that takes the damage instead of the player character, and then calculates the effect based on the damage it has taken.

DE have said that's how it works, and testing has confirmed it.

So, Tornado has to be able to take damage in order to calculate the damage that it deals back out. Not just for the elemental effect, but the basic 'shoot Tornado and it deals damage to everything Tornado is touching with a 2x Crit Damage multiplier' bit. That's the bit that breaks Tornado, see? Not the elemental damage switching, although that's part of it.

If all it did was calculate the amount of damage for the elemental effect, then it could do exactly what Mallet does and take base damage. It could do what all the other things do, which is take base damage. The base damage could switch the elemental type and it wouldn't break, because it isn't taking modded damage.

Tornado has to be able to take modded damage, so that it can deal damage radially based on that modded damage. Not just as a charge-and-release, but live. Calculated as it gets hit.

That's why Tornado breaks and none of the other abilities do.

[VibingCat]

5 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I think you're missing the key point here; DE have said that, in order for something to calculate the damage it takes (for chaining down the line or charging up another effect) specifically in The Evolution Engine (which is what Warframe is coded in), that thing has to be able to take damage in the first place.

You can't make an entity (and let's be clear, that entity can be spawned like Mallet or Tornado, or invisible like Iron Skin and Warding Halo's charge portion) not take damage and then also calculate the damage it takes. Not in this game engine. You can't calculate something from damage it didn't take.

When you see something appearing not to take damage, and it instead calculates a new effect, like Iron Skin or similar, that's the game generating a new 'entity' (an invisible health bar, if you will) that takes the damage instead of the player character, and then calculates the effect based on the damage it has taken.

DE have said that's how it works, and testing has confirmed it.

So, Tornado has to be able to take damage in order to calculate the damage that it deals back out. Not just for the elemental effect, but the basic 'shoot Tornado and it deals damage to everything Tornado is touching with a 2x Crit Damage multiplier' bit. That's the bit that breaks Tornado, see? Not the elemental damage switching, although that's part of it.

If all it did was calculate the amount of damage for the elemental effect, then it could do exactly what Mallet does and take base damage. It could do what all the other things do, which is take base damage. The base damage could switch the elemental type and it wouldn't break, because it isn't taking modded damage.

Tornado has to be able to take modded damage, so that it can deal damage radially based on that modded damage. Not just as a charge-and-release, but live. Calculated as it gets hit.

That's why Tornado breaks and none of the other abilities do.

How about using a double float variable to which a number as big as 1.8 x 10^308 can be assigned? 

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, VibingCat said:

How about using a double float variable to which a number as big as 1.8 x 10^308 can be assigned? 

No clue. You'd think if they could, they would have done it already.

[VibingCat]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

No clue. You'd think if they could, they would have done it already.

I bet there are solutions they didn't try yet.

[Drachnyn]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb VibingCat:

How about using a double float variable to which a number as big as 1.8 x 10^308 can be assigned? 

Yea if access can do it, why not warframe? /s

[VENDOMINUS]

For me the best Frames for solo level cap are (There are frame I just don't play yet):

Revenant (he can heal defence objectives with leech eximus thrals)

Xaku (with Terrify (he killes anything at level cap in less than 0.5 sec, so things can't even think of shooting at the objective. Needs at least 1 augur mod)

Gara (As long as you have at least a basic stat stick available (needs at least 1 augur mod)

Mesa (at level cap performs as a discount Xaku)

Rhine (Stomp, helps a lot during defence since it almost freezes things with overguard too)

Wisp (needs at least 1 augur mod)

Vauban (needs at least 1 augur mod and preferably one good weapon)

 

You can do level cap with most things, But pretty much it always it boils down to "Can you do defence?" and "Can you defend extractor for more than 20 sec at a time?" If the answer to both are yes. Then the warframe will work for solo level cap. Things with overwhelming area damage can usually do defense pretty well. If you get one of your modded melees with influence it get's a lot easier.