Baruuk causes blood rush/glad set bonus to reset when you build combo with desert wind

[MortalMercenary]

If you build up combo with your melee as Baruuk and then build up to a new combo tier with desert wind and let your combo fall off your blood rush and gladiator set bonus resets to base combo and requires you to rebuild all your combo to get the full buff back.

You can easily see this with the ceramic dagger hitting red! crits occasionally and constant red crits with the incarnon form and the Absolute Valor with Bloodrush, Sacrifical steel, and Gladiator Might but you only deal yellow and orange crits after loosing a combo tier as Baruuk.

[migoq_aki]

pretty weird for de to do a completely undocumented change and not allow negative combo too, min is 0,1s

[OneLunchMan14173]

Have noticed this too, seems same with excalibur/exalted melees.

They literally just gave a public statement about it, like they specifically said they wouldn't do anything any time soon, (Paraphrasing)  so i can only assume it is a bug, because as you said, hitting anything in melee range holding an exalted now drops the combo statstick, so generally brutalizing desert wind and excals blade's current play but not their power from my testing, since it doesnt actually change the overall damage unless you hit an enemy in melee range and ofc the infinite heavy bug, so like, the change just forces a more passive ranged style of play with the exalted melee (excluding wukong) frames instead of it just being an option and having the tennokai system encourage getting in close when able giving you a nice flow state or alternatively going in to clear trash mobs with the waves/slashes then going toe-to-toe with the remaining threats building up tennokai.

if I had to guess specifics, they are trying to address the heavy attack reducing the active weapon combo, instead of the built combo, which of course if it only reduces the current weapon combo, it effectively gives negative duration exalteds infinite heavy attacks, not sure whats behind the scenes of course, but I'm hoping they aren't just slapping melee guidance death sentence to avoid confronting that and never acknowledging it.

Melee guidance in its current state if it can't go below 0 is a painful choice now.  In random matchmaking, it only has value post nerf if you have teammates who run melee as their core gameplay.  But if they have melee as their core gameplay, they have likely built for it by either mods, naramon, or both so the combo duration it gives allies seems a nonfactor in its use even in coordinated group play, like I can't forsee melee guidance providing team value as an aura for maybe 95 games out of a hundred, where those 5 games having a teammate running a melee build that can't keep its own combo without an additional 12 seconds duration, and even then I think they would prefer steel charge dramatically.

In the time reading this had a thought and figured might as well drop it while talk of combos and the exalted melee gameplay, in the event a DE staff sees this, if there was a mechanic/effect that triggered on combo loss and scaled dmg or range with combo, that could be interesting, maybe a literal explosion? about as heavy an attack as you can get  build up combo, drop the combo and nuke, repeat, maybe a tennokai?

As it currently stands, I can't think of any madurai polarity aura mods I would use for a melee frame besides steel charge though I'm sure I don't know all options, and if you wanted to be a team player, dreamers bond is likely a much better choice to play with and queue into nodes, possibly even by melee using teammates.

but If it is deliberate, i cant imagine the decisions that went into it, with recent updates, exalted melees are arguably in a worse place relative to other melees with how their stances not giving capacity makes builds have to give up even more to get tennokai access, despite tennokai of course being a nice satisfying glowup for melee in general, at least to me.  Like playing ceramic dagger incarnon versus excalibur blade in terms of buildability.  Though I guess blade can get element by using a modslot for excalibur themselves which ceramic can't do of course.

I guess the patch was likely decided/locked in well before the devstream so could have just been a previous stance and not a contradiction, but that said, I do believe they wouldn't deliberately go against their statement though and that it is a bug and not just an unlisted nerf, and if they do intend to change the exalted system they will do it when they are ready, can see here from the Q&A, 45:30ish

----

hope post didn't sound rude and hope was readable, tired, but saw this post and figured i'd throw my 2 cents here

 

Edited March 31 by OneLunchMan14173
Generally improving post

[OneLunchMan14173]

cant say i know how these forums work regarding ettique I'm a new poster, but bumping i guess, doesn't seem to be acknowledged in the current bugs list

now that ive had time to think about it more, again unless it was intentional, i'm guessing there was some system in place to where if combo duration was below 0 itd show -1 but be in reality 0 cause ofc a negative duration cant exist on a fundemental level, but the game due to some change from dante unbound rounds it up now to the lowest possible.

 that makes melee guidance, for the true vast majority and not in an exaggerating/raging way, honestly worthless for reasons discussed above so regardless of if bug or a change in dev team policy on stat sticks and exalted playstyle builds

Regardless, I suppose all we can do is keep the thread alive, Though I plan to make another tomorrow more specifically how the mod does not give the full minus duration as it should, so if it shouldn't be -1 as said before, could be updated to just let it be 0

Worst case scenario killing baruuk/excalibur statstick setup to make their exalted builds competitive with the current melee options and are never going to acknowledge it but again I do have faith in DE, they did just outright say their stance in dev stream 178 so I think this should be solvable or at least reverted until the underlying problem of combo system interactions with exalteds is changed.

personal note, after trying to play without a melee that actually keeps enemies close enough to build combo with low density instead of knocking them into the void and beyond, maybe just lowering the knockback on non-final combo hits for baruuk could at the very, very worst be a compromise?

[VibingCat]

On 2024-03-28 at 11:52 PM, MortalMercenary said:

If you build up combo with your melee as Baruuk and then build up to a new combo tier with desert wind and let your combo fall off your blood rush and gladiator set bonus resets to base combo and requires you to rebuild all your combo to get the full buff back.

You can easily see this with the ceramic dagger hitting red! crits occasionally and constant red crits with the incarnon form and the Absolute Valor with Bloodrush, Sacrifical steel, and Gladiator Might but you only deal yellow and orange crits after loosing a combo tier as Baruuk.

I'm sorry, but wasn't that an exploit? Mods are intended to affect only the weapon they're equipped on, unless specified otherwise.

[OneLunchMan14173]

2 hours ago, VibingCat said:

I'm sorry, but wasn't that an exploit? Mods are intended to affect only the weapon they're equipped on, unless specified otherwise.

Actually funnily enough, no not at all.   Basically what the situation is, is those buffs apply to melee mechanics, specifically combo and the buff it gives you, and the fact that exalteds share those mechanics/systems, without sharing their mod slots is more of a fundemental aspect of the whole weapon and modding parts of the game, not even necessarily oversight, aspect of it .  Think of it like a mod for bows that says it boosts the fire rate of bow weapons, not this weapon, not a mod only equippable by bows that boosts fire rate in general/affects. but a mod that boosts the fire rate if the current weapon is a bow.  Another way of looking at it would be if there were gun mechanics that applied to dmg dealt in the way combo does for melee, mods that affected those mechanics would affect exalted guns in the same way. 

So a melee mod that increases the effects of combo, like gladiators or blood rush or waves, has always affected all melee weapons equipped by design,, just of course most frames only equip one.   So as it is specified to act on not-the-current weapon but the mechanic itself, it is by all rights working as intended as we can possible know.

Honestly if you are interested I'd recommend looking deeper, the history of this is fascinating, and basically just built on people min maxing their fav frames.  Even not considering that, it opens up a lot of interesting ideas.  Generally helps compensate for exalted melee weapons not getting stance capacity like regular melee stances, and has been a huge discovery for excal/wukong/baruuk/valkyr players

in terms of balance, if you want to consider it an exploit, it certainly hasn't been putting up the numbers to be putting pressure onto the meta, and really i think as far as that goes is basically just the unofficial counter balance to regular melees getting access to arcanes. 

Edited April 6 by OneLunchMan14173