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Dante and LoS Issues and next steps

[DE]Pablo

By [DE]Pablo,
in PSAs

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Siaw

Siaw

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, RivaAurelius said:

Dante was nowhere near as "oppressive" as some of the metas that literally exist in the game RIGHT NOW and have existed for a long time. Make it make sense.

Funny enough I can stand still while killing everything with Xaku, Octavia or Gauss, up to level cap but in DE mind that’s FINE it’s not AUTOMATED nor DOMINANT at all (/s) but god forbid we have fun playing Dante so they had to nerf him without even addressing the issue of the OG on allies (in fact they made it worse lmao)

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ShaloomHD

ShaloomHD

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

That's a good change.
Don't listen to people asking for a revert, if they want AoE nuke across walls, they don't actually want to play the game.

You fool is 3 is needed for his 4 to nuke.... is 3 is LOS already and another thing is theres plenty of frames that dont have LOS and they nuke rooms dante can only nuke a room well not even he nukes thats been hit by is 3 

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Siaw

Siaw

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Nobodys-Perfect said:

If tragedy actually deserved it, all map clearers deserve it.

+1 to this, if the “nerf philosophy” applies to Dante then it should apply to everything else, consistency is key DE

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Crackensan

Crackensan

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, [DE]Pablo said:

We botched the LoS change to Dante yesterday, I apologize for shipping it in that state. We will be making changes later today to improve it, details ahead.

One silver lining that came from this mistake is that we have decided we will revisit older LoS checks to use this improved version in a future update.

Old LoS check:
We do a raycast, basically draw a line from you to the enemies center and if nothing interrupts the line along the way they are considered on sight. Raycasts ignore other enemies.
Additionally we had a bug that prevented it from working on ragdolled enemies, so if they were pulled by vortex or whatever they were totally invisible to the ability.

The main problem with this approach(aside from the huge ragdoll bug) is that a single raycast can easily trigger as false if for example there is a small railing between you and the enemy. Abilities like Radial Blind, Vast Untime and Rotorswell for example use this same logic right now. 

New LoS check:
First if the enemy is within 5 meters we don't do LoS at all, we just assume they are visible. Then checks if the enemy is being rendered, which works for any enemies on screen, so if you see even their pinky toe, they are considered visible. Then for enemies behind you instead of one raycast it does three, one to the top, another to the center and finally to the feet and if any of them are successful, then we determine it is visible, this means false blocks are much less likely.

Again, this should've never happened, but we will try to make the best of it, and hopefully the overall game will end up better for it.

@[DE]Pablo Also; Rebb herself (with Steve) mentioned that the nerf's to Dante were minor tweeks; it seems like you threw him down a flight of stairs.  What is the cause of the disconnect?  It seems either Rebb was unaware of that was coming or someone failed to brief her properly.

 

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MistressOfDreams

MistressOfDreams

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:
2 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Nah I just like to annoy fools who have no idea how a game development works.

 

Shouldn’t you be annoying yourself then? Revert is far easier than beginning work on an issue that has been prevalent in the game since the start.

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Waeleto

Waeleto

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Crackensan said:

@[DE]Pablo Also; Rebb herself (with Steve) mentioned that the nerf's to Dante were minor tweeks; it seems like you threw him down a flight of stairs.  What is the cause of the disconnect?  It seems either Rebb was unaware of that was coming or someone failed to brief her properly.

 

Also what happened to providing the information "as soon as tomorrow even before the hotfix" ?

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Stelthmastr

Stelthmastr

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, RivaAurelius said:

If the changes aren't reverted I will be requesting a refund. We don't want LoS on Dante. We don't even want LoS that WORKS on Dante. We want the Dante we BOUGHT on launch with our very real, hard earned money.

They won't refund you. I already tried. 

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Dullaran

Dullaran

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, [DE]Pablo said:

Again, this should've never happened, but we will try to make the best of it, and hopefully the overall game will end up better for it.

If it wasn't supposed to happen, why not respond to all the feedback and just go back?

The overwhelming majority of complaints were about his overguard. Why all these changes?
 

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Xenevier

Xenevier

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, RivaAurelius said:

This is why they keep opening new threads.

which also get another 10 pages of revert requests, it dont matter how many pages they open, people will still ask for what they want, theyve done it for 60 pages combined now and they will continue to do so 

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JullieTheCutie

JullieTheCutie

Posted
Posted

I think a full revert and back to the drawing board would be the best idea, not only for Dante, but for other erroneous changes like halving Nezha's new Aug by 50% instead of say 25%. The main big issue I have is that these nerfs and changes came so quickly after the update--just--came out, of course, the new toy is going to be a fan favorite it hasn't even been 2 weeks guys [DE]. Let things breathe, gain more data, and reevaluate changes more in-house. These types of updates would be akin to ordering a sandwich and after taking a bite the chef comes out and takes the other half of my sandwich. I was excited to eat, but now I'm not. That is going to lead me to never buy anything from there ever again, less business, less trust, and unprofessional. All I ask is for you guys [DE] to playtest more, and to please--Let. Updates. Breathe--

A registered loser, me

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Vazumongr

Vazumongr

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Zeow31 said:

Please don't mind the Saryn that's been nuking the entire map with a single button for a decade, no no, the Dante that just arrived at the party is the problem.

For the third time I have mentioned in this thread, I am not singling out Dante in my statement. "I am in favor of LoS checks and believe that mindless one-button-nukes in a 30m+ radius are bad for the overall health of the game in majority of cases." There is no part of that where I state anything along the lines of "Dante is the only problem and the other Warframes are fine." Please stop misconstruing what I said.

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LordOfKenpo

LordOfKenpo

Posted
Posted
Just now, CosoMalvadoNG said:

but not gonna happen xDDDD

Can you guys please stop, this conversation is not helping and not useful. Can we please limit the comments to constructive feedback/criticism of the topic so there aren't tons of messages that are spam for most people here

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Zooloo-the-Raven

Zooloo-the-Raven

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, RivaAurelius said:

So you're going to advocate for Saryn, Styanax and Kullervo (just to name a few) getting nerfed next, right? Keep it consistent.

Dante was nowhere near as "oppressive" as some of the metas that literally exist in the game RIGHT NOW and have existed for a long time. Make it make sense.

Yes, I would, Absolutely. That was my entire post earlier in the thread. I literally joined the thread to make that claim.

People are so interested in posting emotional gotchas that they aren't even reading what I wrote in the first place.

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Kerlism

Kerlism

Posted
Posted
On 2024-04-05 at 1:43 PM, MistressOfDreams said:

Careful, he’ll call you an “all buff” 

On 2024-04-05 at 1:48 PM, MetalMechabolic said:

It's an insult!  Half points for @MistressOfDreams since he didn't use the term "all buff".  It's still anyone's game!

 

Hahahah

I expected nothing less than an insult but he doesn't really warrant any engagement whatsoever, he's made it pretty clear he doesn't want to engage with the Dante discussion.

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SomeDepressedPotato

SomeDepressedPotato

Posted
Posted

 DE: >launch really nice frame that almost everyone loved 
>lie that the nerfs are only going to be "slight" "tweaks"
>nerf said frame to the ground within the first 8 days of launch
>get feedback from the vast majority of players saying said nerf is completely unnecessary who also pointed out the *actual* issues that need to be solved
>lol who cares here's a band-aid "fix" that goes over everything everyone said
>ignore
>cycle continues  

Come on DE, this game and this community are like a second home to me. I've interacted with some of the nicest people in this game. This game helped me relax when I went through some real messed up sh*t. But this level of disingenuity from the devs is taking away my will to run this game anymore. Pls, listen to what we are saying. We love this game and we know you do too. I wouldn't be typing this stuff if it happened once or twice but we have seen plenty of such things happen unfortunately.

 

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MistressOfDreams

MistressOfDreams

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, LordOfKenpo said:

Can you guys please stop, this conversation is not helping and not useful. Can we please limit the comments to constructive feedback/criticism of the topic so there aren't tons of messages that are spam for most people here

Sorry, I auto went into my twitter mode and should have bailed.

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Stelthmastr

Stelthmastr

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, MrDerpHerpin said:

they refunded me, but now im dealing with another issue. i don't have my archon shards

How did you get a refund? They told me they wouldn't refund any items unless they "haven't been used" which makes no sense. Of course I'm going to "use" Dante as soon as I buy him, and "use" the Forma as soon as I make it. 

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MetalMechabolic

MetalMechabolic

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Giant_Dad_Prime said:

Guys okay seriously, just report the person and move on. He's clearly here in bad faith, doesn't engage with any of the points, and just deflects with a way to provoke you. Ignore them.

 

1 minute ago, MistressOfDreams said:

Sorry, I auto went into my twitter mode and should have bailed.

...you should uninstall that mode, for your sanity, lol.

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