Limbo Rework

[Joezone619]

Passive
-Ally players within 5m of an enemy, can harm them regardless of rift status. (not limbo himself though)
-Improve/rework visual indicators for enemies/allies who are in the rift.

 

Banish
-Remove chain mechanic, banish all enemies within a cone radius. (edit: unaware it was a cone already)
-Expand the cone radius.
-Allow banish through walls and/or small obstacles.

 

3-Cylce Ability
-Only 1 can be active at a time. Stasis cannot be active alongside flood, or entangle.

Stasis
-Same as it is now, freezing enemies in the rift for a duration.
-Duration increased from 15s to 20s.
-All enemies are given 1 cold proc while active, including overguarded enemies.

Flood
-Channel ability, costing 1 energy per second per enemy in the rift.
-Allies within 16m are given 1 energy per second per enemy in the rift.
-Limbo is not given energy per second.
(the upkeep here is allies killing enemies in the rift, restoring limbo's energy and reducing the drain as limbo banishes more enemies, meanwhile allies are being supplied with energy)

Entangle
-Duration based, lasting 20s.
-Using the ability while it is active will simply deactivate it, just like stasis.
-Enemies outside the rift within 5m of an enemy inside the rift are entangled together.
-Entangled enemies divide damage taken between each other.
(if 4 enemies are entangled, and 1 takes 100 damage, each will instead take 25, including the initial enemy that was hit, negating the 100 and dealing 25.)

 

Rift Surge
-Increase radial banish radius from 5m to 10m.
-Hold down rift surge to un-surge all enemies.

 

Cataclysm
-Nullifiers no longer pop cataclysm, instead cataclysm's timer rapidly speeds up when touching a nullifier.
-Cataclysm no longer shrinks.
-Enemies that walk into a cataclysm are pulled 3m toward the center.

 

This is my take on a limbo rework. Limbo currently doesn't have enough abilities like stasis which actually interact with the rift, 3/4 of his abilities all fundamentally do the same thing, banish enemies. My solution? make stasis part of a 3 cycle ability, giving limbo more abilities that interact with the rift. Another large problem is his lack of teamwork, and how the rift just blocks allies from killing enemies, giving them few workarounds. My solution here is 2 fold, allow allies who are close enough to banished enemies to deal damage through the rift, and give limbo a support ability, the most fitting option would be one which restores energy.

Lastly, the visuals of the rift need to be improved. Indicators for enemies who are banished are barely visible, and this problem has only gotten worse since the new lighting rework. I'd recommend something similar to an eximus aura, or a ephemera given to enemies who are banished. Visual indicators are far more important for enemies then for allies.

Edited April 27 by Joezone619

[Sephylon086918]

What do you mean by "chain mechanic" on banish?

 

Stasis seems interesting. I'm guessing it'll work like wisp's motes/khora's venari ability; tap to cycle hold to cast? Energy regen on flood seems moot if its tied to banished enemies, in most cases enemies won't last more than a split second unless its a boss. Entangle seems like discount kullervo, not sure thats what limbo needs.

 

Radius increase is nice, idk what removing surge on them is supposed to do tho, the radial banish is on unbanish

 

No comment on 4. The way I use it is to open it, press 3, then pop it asap. Nullifiers are barely a factor to me. Only time its up for for a long duration is during def, mobile def or excavation missions.

Edited April 22 by Sephylon086918

[Joezone619]

3 hours ago, Sephylon086918 said:

What do you mean by "chain mechanic" on banish?

Banish works on a chain mechanic similar if not identical to volt's shock. Currently, it chains from nearby enemy to nearby enemy within a cone shape, but this jumping mechanic can skip enemies along the way sometimes and can be hard to predict. That is why i wish to simplify banish, and just make it banish everyone in the cone's radius straight up.

3 hours ago, Sephylon086918 said:

Stasis seems interesting. I'm guessing it'll work like wisp's motes/khora's venari ability; tap to cycle hold to cast? Energy regen on flood seems moot if its tied to banished enemies, in most cases enemies won't last more than a split second unless its a boss. Entangle seems like discount kullervo, not sure thats what limbo needs.

This cycle 2nd ability is ultimately designed to give limbo more abilities that actually do something with the rift. With cold proc added to stasis, that alleviates the overguard issue, they'll be slowed even if only to 1 cold proc's degree.
Flood is designed to give teammates a reason they might want a limbo on their team, and now with the passive alterations (allies being able to kill rifted enemies if they're close enough) mass banishing enemies is less disruptive. When it doubt, melee it out. Its a support ability to encourage teamwork between limbo and allies.
Entangle is supposed to be a way that limbo as well as his allies can harm enemies across dimensions from a distance. Although to keep things balanced, the enemies have to be in close proximity to something/someone already banished, so in other words, limbo still needs to banish stuff anyways for it to work. Its not supposed to link enemies together within the same dimension, only across dimensions.

3 hours ago, Sephylon086918 said:

Radius increase is nice, idk what removing surge on them is supposed to do tho, the radial banish is on unbanish

This is more QOL, they added hold banish to unbanish everything in the rift, this is just supposed to be the same thing for rift surge to avoid unwanted surge looping. (holding to unbanishing surged enemies, triggering rift surge to just rebanish them again)

Edited April 22 by Joezone619

[Sephylon086918]

2 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Banish works on a chain mechanic similar if not identical to volt's shock. Currently, it chains from nearby enemy to nearby enemy within range, but this jumping mechanic can skip enemies along the way sometimes. That is why i wish to simplify banish, and just make it banish everyone in a flat out cone radius.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about, so I'll just quote the wiki here

Casts a wave of Rift energy that damages hostiles while pushing enemies and allies out of Limbo’s current plane of existence.

Misc: 5 m (cone initial radius)
15° (spread angle)
∞ (dispel range)
2 e/s (Rift energy regen per second)
300 (Rift transitional   Impact damage)

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Banish

Never had it skip an enemy as you claim.

 

2 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

This cycle 2nd ability is ultimately designed to give limbo more abilities that actually do something with the rift. With cold proc added to stasis, that alleviates the overguard issue, they'll be slowed even if only to 1 cold proc's degree.
Flood is designed to give teammates a reason they might want a limbo on their team, and now with the passive alterations, allies being able to kill rifted enemies if they're close enough, mass banishing enemies is less disruptive. When it doubt, melee it out.
Entangle is supposed to be a way that limbo as well as his allies can harm enemies across dimensions from a distance. Although to keep things balanced, the enemies have to be in close proximity to something/someone already banished, so in other words, limbo still needs to banish stuff anyways for it to work. Its not supposed to link enemies together within the same dimension, only across dimensions.

Ovet guard isn't much of an issue, you can just shoot it off. Slowing them is a nice addon however. Flood doesn't do what you intend of it; its just a drain limbo's energy. Like I said: mobs barely last a second if at all, and thats not just from weapons. Even on sp they'll last maybe a second at most if they're an eximus so the energy regen practically doesn't exist. 

 

2 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

This is more QOL, they added hold banish to unbanish everything in the rift, this is just supposed to be the same thing for rift surge to avoid unwanted surge looping. (holding to unbanishing surged enemies, triggering rift surge to just rebanish them again)

Ah, would be nice I guess. No clue why surge looping would be unwanted since its an active decision to either let something live that long l, or to unbanish them, unless you're doing a negative duration build

Edited April 22 by Sephylon086918

[Darkumineru]

this has to be one of the most well thoght out ideas i have seen so i will only bring in 2 more things i will have liked

his 1 banish i feel will have done better has a "target a enemy" type like equinox sleep where u use it on 1 enemy and enemys in X range of it gets banished insted of the cone (can easily catch allys in it currently)
and his 3 surge i feel when u kill a enemy and it "jumps" on a enemy outside of the rift it should just pop them into rift with its burst

but like everything ells is really cool and well thought out :D i can see so many cool ways to add the extra abilitys into the gameplay and his 4 really will like that change and the passive is really good (but maybe we have have it be a "tier" based zone like full damage for 5m half damage at 10m and 1/4 for 15m from a enemy in rift :D

[Sci-Fi_Freak_PC]

I like this idea of a rework but his 1 isn’t a chain mechanic, it’s a cone just a very slim cone. 

[Darkumineru]

On 2024-04-22 at 4:00 PM, Joezone619 said:

3-Cylce Ability
-Only 1 can be active at a time. Stasis cannot be active alongside flood, or entangle.

Stasis
-Same as it is now, freezing enemies in the rift for a duration.
-Duration increased from 15s to 20s.
-All enemies are given 1 cold proc while active, including overguarded enemies.

Flood
-Channel ability, costing 1 energy per second per enemy in the rift.
-Allies within 16m are given 1 energy per second per enemy in the rift.
-Limbo is not given energy per second.
(the upkeep here is allies killing enemies in the rift, restoring limbo's energy and reducing the drain as limbo banishes more enemies, meanwhile allies are being supplied with energy)

Entangle
-Duration based, lasting 20s.
-Using the ability while it is active will simply deactivate it, just like stasis.
-Enemies outside the rift within 5m of an enemy inside the rift are entangled together.
-Entangled enemies divide damage taken between each other.

a really cool way to use this can be tap to rotate and when u hold to cast it its "locked" so u cant rotate it unless u hold cast it to rotate to then go back to tap to rotate

[Azchenon]

I absolutely adore the entangle mechanic, but I hate cycle abilities. 

Also I find that rift surge is a redundant ability in Limbo's kit (because its purpose is to rift enemies, which is better done by cataclysm). What do you think of : 

Instead of changing 2 to be a cycle ability, Stasis doesn't change except for your proposed buffs. 

Rift Surge changes : Killing enemies afflicted by rift surge spreads the debuff to nearby foes regardless of which plane they are in. Radial banish performed by enemies afflicted by rift surge now occurs upon "the enemy is outside the rift and has the debuff" instead of "the enemy has the debuff and exits the rift".

Enemies within 5m of a Rift Surged enemy, but in the other plane, take 100% of the damage dealt to the surged enemy (or your version, equally dividing to all enemies which I think works but feels dimmed down compared to other frames like Zephyr)

[Sephylon086918]

Cata is the worst part of limbo's kit; forcing everything to be on thesame side of the rift, removing the main defense of limbo. Its best use imo is to catch a large group, cast rift surge, then instantly close. Iirc its at 300% cast time you can pull off the combo with a nully up, and you'll rift the group before the nully can pop the bubble.

That being said, rift surge feels very weak by itself, needing other skills to even do anything. The most fun I've had with it is a low duration build that causes everything w/o overguard to be knocked down every 3 sec. The skill needs to do something to affected enemies; dr, cc, a dot, anything to make it worth putting it on w/o using the augment.

 

P.s.

Rift surge can already bounce to enemies outside the rift when the original is killed.

Edited April 30 by Sephylon086918

[Azchenon]

Il y a 8 heures, Sephylon086918 a dit :

Rift surge can already bounce to enemies outside the rift when the original is killed.

Yes, and then those enemies are unrifted, and they need to enter and re-exit the rift to make their rift surge any useful, which sucks. My point was to make the radial banish on "being outside" rather than "on exit"

[Sephylon086918]

12 minutes ago, Azchenon said:

Yes, and then those enemies are unrifted, and they need to enter and re-exit the rift to make their rift surge any useful, which sucks. My point was to make the radial banish on "being outside" rather than "on exit"

Ah I misunderstood then.

Yeah a function like that would be very useful for the skill.

Edited April 30 by Sephylon086918