Player told me not to attack in a public match

[user_85631]

So I was playing the game in a public match and this player told me not to attack. I was doing 64% damage dealt and not 100% damage dealt. I’m also helping them while they are down. So my question is now how would you respond to this situation? Would you continue attacking or not?

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

How is this still going hmmmm?

Edited May 17 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[Merkranire]

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not at all. That was simply about what one should expect, that doesnt mean that if someone asks about something specific one cant listen and go along with it. Just slowing down for the sake of slowing down is one thing, slowing down to let someone do a specific objective they need (if they ask) wouldnt be strange. You are just upset at me for your specific playstyle not being the norm, which is what I pointed out, that you are the minority yet act as if everyone else should follow you.

The “specific playstyle” you keep trying to attribute to me is the broad notion of not killing everything the moment you pull the trigger on your gun or cast an ability in multiplayer, which you argued against despite my repeated attempts to drill into your head the reasons why any sort of gameplay alongside Multiple Other People (which the whole “Playing alongside others”was a concept you struggled to grasp, by the way, so forgive me if I don’t take your word that you know how to behave around others) is a reasonable thing to want or expect in a multiplayer gamemode in any game. The whole deal of having to ask you to not eradicate anything fun and then you go standing in a corner if you’re even in a good mood and feel gracious enough to listen and are able to go against your creed of “My time is mine”, that situation isn’t a thing that needs to happen in the first place and if it did it would have to be for actual mission-stopping reasons, yet you’ve got some kind of saviour complex

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Look at it this way. I bring what I always bring, that doesnt stop me from slowing down if someone ask for a specific need. You however, bringing the bare minimum, cannot "up your game" if others ask you to, since you dont have those items with you. So you practically twist and pervert what is actually being said.

Like I repeatedly told you before, what I bring is considered for the content being done and reasonable expectations of how long we’d go in the case of multi-round mission types (considering what’s being done and how to build for it is a notion that you could not and still apparently can’t wrap your head around). Because I know what I’m building for and how to build for it (which is something you don’t), we’ll have success in a multiplayer match alongside each other instead of me hogging the game.

And even if things get hairy (which, shocking news, is a thing that just might happen in a videogame 😱)or people want to go further than I’m built for, have you seen how many options we have to bring to bear on the gear wheel alone, and have you witnessed how gentle the mission consequences typically are? The game’s not as scary as you seem to think it is

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

If I were like you say I wouldnt stop to kill Angels in EDA if someone dies, I'd just bulldoze the objective and head for EZ. But I dont do that, I make sure to see to it that everyone is up before we extract so everyone gets their rewards for the work we put in as a group. I'd also not take a detour to help someone kill a gruzzler or whisper when I have zero interest in what they drop. Yet I do.

🤔 Y’know, I may have to reconsider my accusations in light of what you say that you do. Gotta admit, they don’t square so nicely with your general demeanour, but the examples you provided are easy enough things to do that require barely any compromise on your part, so maybe you do play the benevolent guardian force on your own time (though it’s odd that the others on the team need your help in the first place)

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Merkranire said:

The “specific playstyle” you keep trying to attribute to me is the broad notion of not killing everything the moment you pull the trigger on your gun or cast an ability in multiplayer, which you argued against despite my repeated attempts to drill into your head the reasons why any sort of gameplay alongside Multiple Other People (which the whole “Playing alongside others”was a concept you struggled to grasp, by the way, so forgive me if I don’t take your word that you know how to behave around others) is a reasonable thing to want or expect in a multiplayer gamemode in any game. The whole deal of having to ask you to not eradicate anything fun and then you go standing in a corner if you’re even in a good mood and feel gracious enough to listen and are able to go against your creed of “My time is mine”, that situation isn’t a thing that needs to happen in the first place and if it did it would have to be for actual mission-stopping reasons, yet you’ve got some kind of saviour complex

Yes, and that isnt norm for these games, and that seems to upset you. It isnt a reasonable thing to expect in arpgs for instance, but you want it to be. I also wouldnt stop killing just because you might want "fun", since that would be where pre-mades come in, or solo play since you are going against the norm. However if you asked due to needing something I wouldnt mind stopping if it wasnt absurd.

There is also not any savior complex, it is just playing the game the way that is most common. So asking does need to happen if you arent playing the common way in a public group. Since people arent mindreaders.

17 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Like I repeatedly told you before, what I bring is considered for the content being done and reasonable expectations of how long we’d go in the case of multi-round mission types (considering what’s being done and how to build for it is a notion that you could not and still apparently can’t wrap your head around). Because I know what I’m building for and how to build for it (which is something you don’t), we’ll have success in a multiplayer match alongside each other instead of me hogging the game.

And even if things get hairy (which, shocking news, is a thing that just might happen in a videogame 😱)or people want to go further than I’m built for, have you seen how many options we have to bring to bear on the gear wheel alone, and have you witnessed how gentle the mission consequences typically are? The game’s not as scary as you seem to think it is

What you consider needed for the content being done. If I head in and want most loot possible with me at the end, those considerations regarding what is needed might vary widely, just as how long you think is reasonable to stay. I also know what I build for, since I build to fit my goals. If I go into a mission and want maximum loot yield I wont settle with a build that can pull off 1.8 kps if I can bring one that grants me 2.5 kps since that results in a massive loss of kills/loot per minute, rotation and hour.

And things getting hairy isnt what I build for, it is about efficiency since I play and enjoy the farming of the game. So your fun isnt the same as my fun. Your fun both robs me of fun and rewards if I am to follow it. So when you ask others to cater to and consider your fun, you ask others to give up their fun in addition to the efficiency and rewards they might seek. While all you give up when you end up with the norm is your idea of fun. You arent giving up time and rewards.

17 hours ago, Merkranire said:

🤔 Y’know, I may have to reconsider my accusations in light of what you say that you do. Gotta admit, they don’t square so nicely with your general demeanour, but the examples you provided are easy enough things to do that require barely any compromise on your part, so maybe you do play the benevolent guardian force on your own time (though it’s odd that the others on the team need your help in the first place)

Easy enough? Yes. But we arent talking difficulty here, we are talking about giving up that die hard approach you accused me of having. You also look at it a oddly with your constant need to demonize (or is it sanctify) by calling it "savior complex" and "benevolent guardian" etc. No it is simply just regular gameplay manners if you ask me. And what is odd with them needing my help? It is quite obvious that they do, since there is no self res in the mode. So if someone gets downed and die, someone would need to res them with an angel kill, so if that someone is me, I'd do it.

I'd hate to end up with you in a group if you find these common sense things "benevolent guardian" or "savior complex" actions. I dont even expect a thanks to these actions, since they are just part of regular group behavior imo. I do however thank others, because it would feel odd not to for some reason.

Like... how #*!%ing selfish are you when you nitpick these things and try to demonize them? 

[Merkranire]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yes, and that isnt norm for these games, and that seems to upset you. It isnt a reasonable thing to expect in arpgs for instance, but you want it to be. I also wouldnt stop killing just because you might want "fun", since that would be where pre-mades come in, or solo play since you are going against the norm. However if you asked due to needing something I wouldnt mind stopping if it wasnt absurd.

Jesus christ, well I think I see a core reason why your “Build to solo multiplayer” approach doesn’t strike you as odd or out of place

It’s part of this game’s structure and reward system as a whole that the different levels of content enables and rewards different types of builds and loadout combinations due to not requiring meta builds 24/7, and when someone excersises the freedom enabled by not having to be stuck in a few builds all the time, that’s where the gameplay gets a chance to breathe and the game design makes sense. And this concept transfers into multiplayer until someone who builds to solo everything outside of Solo mode jumps into the mission and strips away the gameplay because they think it’s only normal and right to do so; there’s a reason that in other games like WoW, it’s considered a faux pas to jump into content not designed for your character. And in Warframe, that’s completely within our control as part of the build crafting “Power comes with a cost” fundamental design that makes sticking to a single build understandably not always desired, which the game caters to. We’ve argued about this before, and I was always boggled by what seemed a completely nonsensical mindset

The game works really well when played alongside someone (trust me I know), with a fantastic combination of intrinsic desire to play the game for what it is using the stuff earned in different ways combined with an extrinsic reward system that lets the player earn more stuff to feed the intrinsic side, which happens normally in solo, but in multiplayer the cherry on top is that it all happens alongside someone else, complete with whatever weird synergies and unexpected behaviour that can occur. In order for that to happen though, requires that one side not hog the game

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

There is also not any savior complex, it is just playing the game the way that is most common. So asking does need to happen if you arent playing the common way in a public group. Since people arent mindreaders.

What you consider needed for the content being done. If I head in and want most loot possible with me at the end, those considerations regarding what is needed might vary widely, just as how long you think is reasonable to stay. I also know what I build for, since I build to fit my goals. If I go into a mission and want maximum loot yield I wont settle with a build that can pull off 1.8 kps if I can bring one that grants me 2.5 kps since that results in a massive loss of kills/loot per minute, rotation and hour.

And things getting hairy isnt what I build for, it is about efficiency since I play and enjoy the farming of the game. So your fun isnt the same as my fun. Your fun both robs me of fun and rewards if I am to follow it. So when you ask others to cater to and consider your fun, you ask others to give up their fun in addition to the efficiency and rewards they might seek. While all you give up when you end up with the norm is your idea of fun. You arent giving up time and rewards.

Easy enough? Yes. But we arent talking difficulty here, we are talking about giving up that die hard approach you accused me of having. You also look at it a oddly with your constant need to demonize (or is it sanctify) by calling it "savior complex" and "benevolent guardian" etc. No it is simply just regular gameplay manners if you ask me. And what is odd with them needing my help? It is quite obvious that they do, since there is no self res in the mode. So if someone gets downed and die, someone would need to res them with an angel kill, so if that someone is me, I'd do it.

I'd hate to end up with you in a group if you find these common sense things "benevolent guardian" or "savior complex" actions. I dont even expect a thanks to these actions, since they are just part of regular group behavior imo. I do however thank others, because it would feel odd not to for some reason.

Like... how #*!%ing selfish are you when you nitpick these things and try to demonize them? 

You don’t get it, do you?

You jump into a mission, and you stifle the game. And then you do it for others. That’s why I was a little surprised that others needing your help was even a thing; according to what you do and what you find fun and what you build for, that shouldn’t be a thing that happens, and since everyone’s doing what you do, help shouldn’t be necessary. If they do, it’s an accident more than anything because gameplay itself is an accident

Helping others is a completely normal thing to do. Y'know, when the scenarios where help is needed gets a chance to happen in the first place instead of the game being wiped away the moment you enter a multiplayer game looking for efficient grinding 

Which begs the question:

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And things getting hairy isnt what I build for, it is about efficiency since I play and enjoy the farming of the game. So your fun isnt the same as my fun. Your fun both robs me of fun and rewards if I am to follow it. So when you ask others to cater to and consider your fun, you ask others to give up their fun in addition to the efficiency and rewards they might seek. While all you give up when you end up with the norm is your idea of fun. You arent giving up time and rewards.

Why are you in multiplayer, Ervin, when solo is right there? Why do you jump into the match and force others to exist at your whims? Their presence is a non-issue to you, they could be gone and you wouldn’t notice, they were trying to use the stuff they’d already earned while earning more on the side and playing with others. But the moment you step onto the scene, built to do what you find fun, suddenly the game all but vanishes unless you’re feeling gracious or the game accidentally manages to slip through the cracks

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Merkranire:

Jesus christ, well I think I see a core reason why your “Build to solo multiplayer” approach doesn’t strike you as odd or out of place

Well, that's strange... so why move to the desert as a fish?

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Merkranire:

The game works really well when played alongside someone (trust me I know),game accidentally manages to slip through the cracks

true. I wouldn't want to play Warframe without other players either. Because that's a special experience... even if hardly anyone writes in the chat...

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Merkranire:

You jump into a mission, and you stifle the game. And then you do it for others. That’s why I was a little surprised that others needing your help

Here's another emotional kick: I'm needed! So that's also a good reason for joy!

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Merkranire:

Helping others is a completely normal thing to do.

Unfortunately, this is rarely the case. Unfortunately most people are evil... I don't want to know why.
But kindness and respect would make our world a much better place! That's just a fact!

[Merkranire]

3 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

Well, that's strange... so why move to the desert as a fish?

What…?

3 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

true. I wouldn't want to play Warframe without other players either. Because that's a special experience... even if hardly anyone writes in the chat...

Here's another emotional kick: I'm needed! So that's also a good reason for joy!

Unfortunately, this is rarely the case. Unfortunately most people are evil... I don't want to know why.
But kindness and respect would make our world a much better place! That's just a fact!

😐

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Jesus christ, well I think I see a core reason why your “Build to solo multiplayer” approach doesn’t strike you as odd or out of place

It’s part of this game’s structure and reward system as a whole that the different levels of content enables and rewards different types of builds and loadout combinations due to not requiring meta builds 24/7, and when someone excersises the freedom enabled by not having to be stuck in a few builds all the time, that’s where the gameplay gets a chance to breathe and the game design makes sense. And this concept transfers into multiplayer until someone who builds to solo everything outside of Solo mode jumps into the mission and strips away the gameplay because they think it’s only normal and right to do so; there’s a reason that in other games like WoW, it’s considered a faux pas to jump into content not designed for your character. And in Warframe, that’s completely within our control as part of the build crafting “Power comes with a cost” fundamental design that makes sticking to a single build understandably not always desired, which the game caters to. We’ve argued about this before, and I was always boggled by what seemed a completely nonsensical mindset

The game works really well when played alongside someone (trust me I know), with a fantastic combination of intrinsic desire to play the game for what it is using the stuff earned in different ways combined with an extrinsic reward system that lets the player earn more stuff to feed the intrinsic side, which happens normally in solo, but in multiplayer the cherry on top is that it all happens alongside someone else, complete with whatever weird synergies and unexpected behaviour that can occur. In order for that to happen though, requires that one side not hog the game

The bolded part isnt at all true. The game rewards you for pushing your kps/kpm, since you get rewards faster by either killing more enemies in endless, or blitzing through one-and-done missions. There is never a reward in going slower than possible.

WoW is a different kind of game since it has no incentive to jump into "low" level content, because the rewards there are quite literally useless to you. But it doesnt restrict you from going there is someone you know needs help or if you just want to help people in general to get through it faster. If all levels were rewarding you can bet your ass on people doing with the most effective builds to farm that, just as people actually do in WoW when farming materials to level new crafting etc. And of course sticking to a single build in WF isnt always desired and no one says otherwise. However, reducing your efficiency is never incentiviced. There is zero downside to going with a build that kills as fast and efficiently as possible while swapping the rest to fit the task at hand. Go to disruption with the highest possible dps and Kullervo for instance, then swap over to Frost with the highest possible dps available to do excav. Both result in high efficiency for the individual modes and there is no incentive whatsoever to reduce the dps.

Yes sure, the game works great playing alongside someone. But you are completely ignoring PuGing, where there is nothing whatsoever pre-planned and communicated. So while you wanna play organized with someone else, there is no guarantee for that combination in a PuG. If I knew I was always running with a rev or a wisp or whatever, then my builds would compeltely neglect certain parts since the synergy would cover that. But in a PuG nothing is guaranteed, so of course I will bring what I bring for solo so the outcome and efficiency is the same as solo, otherwise there would be no reason to do anything in multiplayer. Why would I jump into something that suddenly rewards me less and is far slower?

15 hours ago, Merkranire said:

You don’t get it, do you?

You jump into a mission, and you stifle the game. And then you do it for others. That’s why I was a little surprised that others needing your help was even a thing; according to what you do and what you find fun and what you build for, that shouldn’t be a thing that happens, and since everyone’s doing what you do, help shouldn’t be necessary. If they do, it’s an accident more than anything because gameplay itself is an accident

Helping others is a completely normal thing to do. Y'know, when the scenarios where help is needed gets a chance to happen in the first place instead of the game being wiped away the moment you enter a multiplayer game looking for efficient grinding 

Which begs the question:

No I jump into a mission and do what the majority does. And I guess you havent done EDA with all the various variables that can and will remove certain parts you might rely on in a build that results in people getting downed and dead at times. A place where enemies also do not die to a sneeze in every mission etc. The mode where playing alongside eachother with maxed out builds actually is a thing. The mode where some might have a slightly worse week than you and might rely more on others than someone else in the group.

And that bolded part wasnt clear enough when ressing someone through an Angel kill was mentioned? What #*!%ing mode did you think I was talking about where that is a thing aside from the only content in the game where that is a thing?

15 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Why are you in multiplayer, Ervin, when solo is right there? Why do you jump into the match and force others to exist at your whims? Their presence is a non-issue to you, they could be gone and you wouldn’t notice, they were trying to use the stuff they’d already earned while earning more on the side and playing with others. But the moment you step onto the scene, built to do what you find fun, suddenly the game all but vanishes unless you’re feeling gracious or the game accidentally manages to slip through the cracks

Why? Because the game is designed that way. If I could get relics from 3 other players when playing solo I would play solo. And I join public archon disruptions since it speeds things up, because we are 4 players then with 4 conduits and 4 demos, all being able to cover each direction for simultaneous key insertions etc. And it is the same with EDA, since it is faster and allows me to focus my build options to a more specific portion of the 3 missions.

And the game only vanishes if you are horribly built. I've played quite a decent amount of public recently and our groups have had more than enough good builds yet everyone has had something to do. It's an exaggerated myth that high potential builds rob others. For the love of all that is unholy, I mostly play melee these days with nothing in my kits to nuke with aside from my melee weapon. And there is not a moment where I dont have something to do/attack.

Right now I run around with either Hate or Dual Fang, along with a Burston Prime Incarnon soley for it being useful with Amalgam Serration, so I can achieve some nice movement speed bonuses (especially with Hate) and then Grimoire for utility. This all when playing either Kullervo or Dante as weapon platforms. Which allows me to maintain sick kps when playing solo (since everything comes to me), and it leaves plenty of room for others in groups aswell, while also allowing me to pick up the pace if needed. 

Then when doing EDA I'm more concerned just supporting my group than dealing damage, so prioritize that incase specific missions pop, like defense or the assassination.

15 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

But kindness and respect would make our world a much better place! That's just a fact!

If kindness and respect is the name of an asteroid heading for Earth I fully agree.

The world is currently at a point where it would do us good if Surt steps onto the field and plunges his great sword into dear mother, so we can all bathe in the sea of flames and eventually get washed away by the tide. The lucky few that survive could then maybe make something better.

Edited May 19 by SneakyErvin

[Merkranire]

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The bolded part isnt at all true. The game rewards you for pushing your kps/kpm, since you get rewards faster by either killing more enemies in endless, or blitzing through one-and-done missions. There is never a reward in going slower than possible.

WoW is a different kind of game since it has no incentive to jump into "low" level content, because the rewards there are quite literally useless to you. But it doesnt restrict you from going there is someone you know needs help or if you just want to help people in general to get through it faster. If all levels were rewarding you can bet your ass on people doing with the most effective builds to farm that, just as people actually do in WoW when farming materials to level new crafting etc. And of course sticking to a single build in WF isnt always desired and no one says otherwise. However, reducing your efficiency is never incentiviced. There is zero downside to going with a build that kills as fast and efficiently as possible while swapping the rest to fit the task at hand. Go to disruption with the highest possible dps and Kullervo for instance, then swap over to Frost with the highest possible dps available to do excav. Both result in high efficiency for the individual modes and there is no incentive whatsoever to reduce the dps.

Yes sure, the game works great playing alongside someone. But you are completely ignoring PuGing, where there is nothing whatsoever pre-planned and communicated. So while you wanna play organized with someone else, there is no guarantee for that combination in a PuG. If I knew I was always running with a rev or a wisp or whatever, then my builds would compeltely neglect certain parts since the synergy would cover that. But in a PuG nothing is guaranteed, so of course I will bring what I bring for solo so the outcome and efficiency is the same as solo, otherwise there would be no reason to do anything in multiplayer. Why would I jump into something that suddenly rewards me less and is far slower?

No I jump into a mission and do what the majority does. And I guess you havent done EDA with all the various variables that can and will remove certain parts you might rely on in a build that results in people getting downed and dead at times. A place where enemies also do not die to a sneeze in every mission etc. The mode where playing alongside eachother with maxed out builds actually is a thing. The mode where some might have a slightly worse week than you and might rely more on others than someone else in the group.

And that bolded part wasnt clear enough when ressing someone through an Angel kill was mentioned? What #*!%ing mode did you think I was talking about where that is a thing aside from the only content in the game where that is a thing?

Why? Because the game is designed that way. If I could get relics from 3 other players when playing solo I would play solo. And I join public archon disruptions since it speeds things up, because we are 4 players then with 4 conduits and 4 demos, all being able to cover each direction for simultaneous key insertions etc. And it is the same with EDA, since it is faster and allows me to focus my build options to a more specific portion of the 3 missions.

And the game only vanishes if you are horribly built. I've played quite a decent amount of public recently and our groups have had more than enough good builds yet everyone has had something to do. It's an exaggerated myth that high potential builds rob others. For the love of all that is unholy, I mostly play melee these days with nothing in my kits to nuke with aside from my melee weapon. And there is not a moment where I dont have something to do/attack.

Right now I run around with either Hate or Dual Fang, along with a Burston Prime Incarnon soley for it being useful with Amalgam Serration, so I can achieve some nice movement speed bonuses (especially with Hate) and then Grimoire for utility. This all when playing either Kullervo or Dante as weapon platforms. Which allows me to maintain sick kps when playing solo (since everything comes to me), and it leaves plenty of room for others in groups aswell, while also allowing me to pick up the pace if needed. 

Then when doing EDA I'm more concerned just supporting my group than dealing damage, so prioritize that incase specific missions pop, like defense or the assassination.

You’re a real piece of work, Ervin. Use the EDA builds when you’re doing EDA and content adjacent to it, reconsider what you’re bringing to the table when you jump into multiplayer outside of the content you’re built for, which I get is kind of impossible for you to do since the only reason there’s any sort of gameplay in the first place is because, again, it’s an accident, because you haven’t figured out how to most effectively remove it for yourself and others for the sake of chasing the grind.

Just because you may not be interested in exploring more builds and loadouts and places to use them and ways to play (acting like you’re not all about efficient grind while literally making it clear it’s your whole deal), doesn’t mean that those you match up with will be the same, not that you’d notice anyways while you steamroll everything while blaming the game for your behaviour. Do whatever you want in Solo, when you jump into Multiplayer, show some consideration and self-awareness of what you’re built for and what you’re doing when matching with others, and if they ask for you to jump in and eradicate everything, then go nuts when they ask.

PuGs may be mysterious and difficult to determine who’s bringing what, but do you know what isn’t mysterious? The content that you’re doing and how your build fares in it, and it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to determine what happens if you take something like a loadout designed to tackle highest level content to content that isn’t the highest level, and then do that in a public matchup

Edited May 19 by Merkranire

[SneakyErvin]

On 2024-05-20 at 12:45 AM, Merkranire said:

You’re a real piece of work, Ervin. Use the EDA builds when you’re doing EDA and content adjacent to it, reconsider what you’re bringing to the table when you jump into multiplayer outside of the content you’re built for, which I get is kind of impossible for you to do since the only reason there’s any sort of gameplay in the first place is because, again, it’s an accident, because you haven’t figured out how to most effectively remove it for yourself and others for the sake of chasing the grind.

Why? Those builds improve my loot yield and the loot is what I'm farming, so obviously I want as much as possible when I farm no matter if I do it solo or in multiplayer. If you are there for the intrinsic rewards you have the choice to make premades since the game isnt based around the subjectiveness of the intrinsic rewards. For me the intrinsic reward is improving my builds to farm loot more efficiently and then using that build as I farm.

On 2024-05-20 at 12:45 AM, Merkranire said:

Just because you may not be interested in exploring more builds and loadouts and places to use them and ways to play (acting like you’re not all about efficient grind while literally making it clear it’s your whole deal), doesn’t mean that those you match up with will be the same, not that you’d notice anyways while you steamroll everything while blaming the game for your behaviour. Do whatever you want in Solo, when you jump into Multiplayer, show some consideration and self-awareness of what you’re built for and what you’re doing when matching with others, and if they ask for you to jump in and eradicate everything, then go nuts when they ask.

I'm very much all about the efficient farm, I havent said otherwise. What I said was that I have no problem stopping and dropping that efficiency on the fly if someone asks for something out of the norm, or if someone goes down and needs to get picked up etc. Since I joined a random group where those things can happen. And chances are high the people I match up with share the idea of wanting an effective farm, since it is the norm of these games. Hence why they jump into random groups instead of premades, since they know the outcome is most often fast, so no need to take the time for a premade in order to increase the efficiency of their farm.

On 2024-05-20 at 12:45 AM, Merkranire said:

PuGs may be mysterious and difficult to determine who’s bringing what, but do you know what isn’t mysterious? The content that you’re doing and how your build fares in it, and it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to determine what happens if you take something like a loadout designed to tackle highest level content to content that isn’t the highest level, and then do that in a public matchup

Uh "may be", no lol they are. And that rocket surgery tells us that bringing those builds will gain us the most loot since the kill rate will be guaranteed to be very high and the clear rate fast. Killing several demos in no time, activating and keeping excavs safe quickly, slaughtering enemies as fast as they can spawn in survival, clearing waves ate high speeds in defense etc.

If you want a slow and tedious session, or a low killrate survival for less loot, do so in a premade.

[Merkranire]

12 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Why? Those builds improve my loot yield and the loot is what I'm farming, so obviously I want as much as possible when I farm no matter if I do it solo or in multiplayer. If you are there for the intrinsic rewards you have the choice to make premades since the game isnt based around the subjectiveness of the intrinsic rewards. For me the intrinsic reward is improving my builds to farm loot more efficiently and then using that build as I farm.

I'm very much all about the efficient farm, I havent said otherwise. What I said was that I have no problem stopping and dropping that efficiency on the fly if someone asks for something out of the norm, or if someone goes down and needs to get picked up etc. Since I joined a random group where those things can happen. And chances are high the people I match up with share the idea of wanting an effective farm, since it is the norm of these games. Hence why they jump into random groups instead of premades, since they know the outcome is most often fast, so no need to take the time for a premade in order to increase the efficiency of their farm.

Uh "may be", no lol they are. And that rocket surgery tells us that bringing those builds will gain us the most loot since the kill rate will be guaranteed to be very high and the clear rate fast. Killing several demos in no time, activating and keeping excavs safe quickly, slaughtering enemies as fast as they can spawn in survival, clearing waves ate high speeds in defense etc.

If you want a slow and tedious session, or a low killrate survival for less loot, do so in a premade.

The cruel irony here is that in your haste to obtain all the loot, you’re stomping all over those that are using said loot. And using the loot is what gives the game a chance to breathe, or as you put it, be slow and tedious, though there’s nothing slower and more tedious than standing around grinding for stuff that never gets used, ask me how I know. Especially when the flip side of that, where there’s actual gameplay using custom builds and being rewarded with even more things to use, is fast-paced and engaging and still progresses along the same path just in a much more interesting way

Seriously, you spend all that time rushing to collect, swatting aside anyone else who gets in your way while doing so, what are you going to do with that stuff? Because you’re not using it right now because you’re too busy grinding and forcing others to follow suit, and by time you start exploring using the stuff you were so fixated on getting quickly, if you ever do in the first place, the extrinsic reward is gone because you got everything

I dunno, Ervin. It seems to me like stopping or even just slowing down the all-consuming chase of the grind leads to better gameplay, better sense of reward, higher chances of more enjoyable multiplayer gameplay, and overall a more healthy gameplay experience. I’m not sure why you keep roping in the rest of the community like they aren’t subject to scrutiny either, considering they’re the posterchild for the phrase “Given the opportunity, players will optimise the fun out of the game”, which was a lament from game developers that they can’t do anything fun or the players will abuse it and said players need to be babysat

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, Merkranire said:

The cruel irony here is that in your haste to obtain all the loot, you’re stomping all over those that are using said loot. And using the loot is what gives the game a chance to breathe, or as you put it, be slow and tedious, though there’s nothing slower and more tedious than standing around grinding for stuff that never gets used, ask me how I know. Especially when the flip side of that, where there’s actual gameplay using custom builds and being rewarded with even more things to use, is fast-paced and engaging and still progresses along the same path just in a much more interesting way

What are you even talking about? No, no one is getting stomped on while "using" the loot. Do you think I'm talking about BPs? I'm talking about everything we spend time farming to use in various systems of the game. Things where kill rate matters alot for loot yield in a run.

12 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Seriously, you spend all that time rushing to collect, swatting aside anyone else who gets in your way while doing so, what are you going to do with that stuff? Because you’re not using it right now because you’re too busy grinding and forcing others to follow suit, and by time you start exploring using the stuff you were so fixated on getting quickly, if you ever do in the first place, the extrinsic reward is gone because you got everything

I'm using it quite constantly. To reroll rivens, to try new shard combinations on frames I play, revisiting frames I play less since we now have access to shards, unbinging those shards if the frame/build turns out unfun and so on. So when I farm I want to get the most out of it so I can just sit down and experiement as much as I like when I like. Same reason I farm a massive amount of forma each PS, so I can experiment and "waste" forma on weapons I really wanna try.

12 hours ago, Merkranire said:

I dunno, Ervin. It seems to me like stopping or even just slowing down the all-consuming chase of the grind leads to better gameplay, better sense of reward, higher chances of more enjoyable multiplayer gameplay, and overall a more healthy gameplay experience. I’m not sure why you keep roping in the rest of the community like they aren’t subject to scrutiny either, considering they’re the posterchild for the phrase “Given the opportunity, players will optimise the fun out of the game”, which was a lament from game developers that they can’t do anything fun or the players will abuse it and said players need to be babysat

For you maybe, but that is up to you. For me, no. I enjoy the aspect of making things as efficient as I can based on my own standards. Same deal IRL, if I take something on it should be done properly and efficiently. The quote also only considers players of a certain type. For me the fun is improving and optimizing, so I cant optimize the fun out of the game for me.

So if you dont want to risk ending up with people not sharing your view on how the game should be played, dont jump into public. I'm fully aware that things may not always align with good efficiency, but I also accept it when I join public for certain modes. I wont get upset if I join an archon hunt disruption and someone starts a conduit without being able to handle it while everyone else is busy elsewhere. If it fails it fail and we lost some time, but that also goes with what can happen in public. Same deal with hasty players in excav and so on. In the end I freely clicked that join button. 

[Merkranire]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

What are you even talking about? No, no one is getting stomped on while "using" the loot. Do you think I'm talking about BPs? I'm talking about everything we spend time farming to use in various systems of the game. Things where kill rate matters alot for loot yield in a run.

By this point, I don’t know who you’re trying to gaslight more; me, or yourself. Being stomped all over is not a foreign concept for many players jumping into multiplayer looking to play some game and instead getting sidelined by grindheads

I’m not talking about just BPs (which, what? You mean like the weapons and Warframes alone?), I’m talking about everything; every mod every companion every weapon and Warframe and school and gearwheel item and way they are or are not combined and taken into the different content according to the desire for how the combination plays out. And considering the content and how the build/loadout/whatever fares is a big part of that equation for playing around with different combinations for the effects they have, and you aren’t considering that when you design your build for a certain range of content (typically highest level) and then take it somewhere outside of that range and into content where other builds are more suited and the content is designed to enable the use of those alternative builds. Yes, you’re stomping on other people who are using those alternative builds in content that by design enables those alternative builds, content which doesn’t force them to use the builds that sit in highest-level content because that’s what the highest-level content is for is for those builds that don’t fit in non-highest level content.

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm using it quite constantly. To reroll rivens, to try new shard combinations on frames I play, revisiting frames I play less since we now have access to shards, unbinging those shards if the frame/build turns out unfun and so on. So when I farm I want to get the most out of it so I can just sit down and experiement as much as I like when I like. Same reason I farm a massive amount of forma each PS, so I can experiment and "waste" forma on weapons I really wanna try.

I’m calling BS on your idea of experimenting, because if you really experimented you’d have an inkling of what I’m talking about in terms of paying attention to how content and build match and how important it is to consider what you’re built for and where you’re taking it, and I can guarantee you that there are builds you can make starting from the modless start that you’d find fun to play with but aren’t as efficient, and you’ve made it clear that when efficiency and fun collide, efficiency wins out and you bin the build and gameplay associated with it (both in solo and multiplayer) and narrow your selection of options and limit the perceived value of new acquisitions and stomp all over someone else who’s playing the game first, grinding second since the grind practically automatically happens with a minimum of guidance just by playing the game.

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

For you maybe, but that is up to you. For me, no. I enjoy the aspect of making things as efficient as I can based on my own standards. Same deal IRL, if I take something on it should be done properly and efficiently. The quote also only considers players of a certain type. For me the fun is improving and optimizing, so I cant optimize the fun out of the game for me.

So if you dont want to risk ending up with people not sharing your view on how the game should be played, dont jump into public. I'm fully aware that things may not always align with good efficiency, but I also accept it when I join public for certain modes. I wont get upset if I join an archon hunt disruption and someone starts a conduit without being able to handle it while everyone else is busy elsewhere. If it fails it fail and we lost some time, but that also goes with what can happen in public. Same deal with hasty players in excav and so on. In the end I freely clicked that join button. 

And I can and have made things as efficient as possible too! I know what it’s like! It can be fun and rewarding!

But it comes with a caveat, Ervin, where at some point in time some restraint is called for, otherwise someone can self destruct; the phrase “Gamers will optimise the fun out of the game” is a warning about not stopping themselves when they start running counter to the notion of playing a game, where the designers have designed a game which is fun to play on its own merit but the player decides they know better and then wonder where the fun went while they were chasing some elusive high that the game isn’t necessarily designed around even if it intentionally or unintentionally enables it.

You want a game about optimising and efficiency? Go play Satisfactory, it’s a good game. Warframe is a game about variety and buildcrafting with a core metric of “How much stuff have you used” in the form of mastery rank, and is a sandbox of components to be arranged in fun ways while the game coughs up more components while someone plays; optimising and efficiency is an option one can get satisfaction from, but if it’s all someone chases, then they are by design eschewing a humongous part of the game. Which isn’t so much of a problem in solo until you start wondering where the fun’s gone and why there’s so little game, but in multiplayer there needs to be some considerations made, key among them being “What am I built to do, and what am I doing”, because without those considerations and self awareness you can easily end up stomping all over someone without even noticing

Edited May 23 by Merkranire

[SneakyErvin]

10 hours ago, Merkranire said:

By this point, I don’t know who you’re trying to gaslight more; me, or yourself. Being stomped all over is not a foreign concept for many players jumping into multiplayer looking to play some game and instead getting sidelined by grindheads

I’m not talking about just BPs (which, what? You mean like the weapons and Warframes alone?), I’m talking about everything; every mod every companion every weapon and Warframe and school and gearwheel item and way they are or are not combined and taken into the different content according to the desire for how the combination plays out. And considering the content and how the build/loadout/whatever fares is a big part of that equation for playing around with different combinations for the effects they have, and you aren’t considering that when you design your build for a certain range of content (typically highest level) and then take it somewhere outside of that range and into content where other builds are more suited and the content is designed to enable the use of those alternative builds. Yes, you’re stomping on other people who are using those alternative builds in content that by design enables those alternative builds, content which doesn’t force them to use the builds that sit in highest-level content because that’s what the highest-level content is for is for those builds that don’t fit in non-highest level content.

Yet I havent ran into any issues getting "stomped" when playing my support choices. I still have a great time and good opportunities to kill and feel engaged. Or are you again talking about only that trivial low level content that most people just want to be done with since no matter what you do it will never get engaging?

That is your opinion. And for me, it doesnt matter if I change builds to consider the content, because if my goal is efficiency to get the most out of the mission I play, it really doesnt matter if I 1HK the enemies with a weapon/frame that can tackle several hundreds of levels or if I 1HK them with a weapon/frame built to just 1HK that lower content, since in the end, both end up with the same "issues" for you, things dying to fast in your personal opinion.

10 hours ago, Merkranire said:

I’m calling BS on your idea of experimenting, because if you really experimented you’d have an inkling of what I’m talking about in terms of paying attention to how content and build match and how important it is to consider what you’re built for and where you’re taking it, and I can guarantee you that there are builds you can make starting from the modless start that you’d find fun to play with but aren’t as efficient, and you’ve made it clear that when efficiency and fun collide, efficiency wins out and you bin the build and gameplay associated with it (both in solo and multiplayer) and narrow your selection of options and limit the perceived value of new acquisitions and stomp all over someone else who’s playing the game first, grinding second since the grind practically automatically happens with a minimum of guidance just by playing the game.

So now people cannot experiment around different things? I'm experimenting with build to reach high efficiency when farming. And fun doesnt collide with efficiency, because for me getting to the more efficient point of farming is fun. It is a "you" problem, since you are attributing your idea of fun onto others still. Your idea of fun is not my idea of fun, my fun is intact when pushing efficiency and I then have fun playing those builds aswell since they are enjoyable for different reasons.

And sure, the farm (you apprently dont like to farm since you keep refering to it as grinding) happens automatically, but that doesnt mean the farm is automatically good and rewarding. There is a massive difference in loot yield depending on how fast you kill or clear missions. And the reward from playing the game extensively is us being allowed to make the farming as efficient as possible. I've already been though the content at a slow pace as I increased my power, I'm not going to slow down just because someone else is limited in their farm speed due to being new or not wanting to improve themselves and make use of what their time spent on the game has rewarded them.

11 hours ago, Merkranire said:

And I can and have made things as efficient as possible too! I know what it’s like! It can be fun and rewarding!

But it comes with a caveat, Ervin, where at some point in time some restraint is called for, otherwise someone can self destruct; the phrase “Gamers will optimise the fun out of the game” is a warning about not stopping themselves when they start running counter to the notion of playing a game, where the designers have designed a game which is fun to play on its own merit but the player decides they know better and then wonder where the fun went while they were chasing some elusive high that the game isn’t necessarily designed around even if it intentionally or unintentionally enables it.

You want a game about optimising and efficiency? Go play Satisfactory, it’s a good game. Warframe is a game about variety and buildcrafting with a core metric of “How much stuff have you used” in the form of mastery rank, and is a sandbox of components to be arranged in fun ways while the game coughs up more components while someone plays; optimising and efficiency is an option one can get satisfaction from, but if it’s all someone chases, then they are by design eschewing a humongous part of the game. Which isn’t so much of a problem in solo until you start wondering where the fun’s gone and why there’s so little game, but in multiplayer there needs to be some considerations made, key among them being “What am I built to do, and what am I doing”, because without those considerations and self awareness you can easily end up stomping all over someone without even noticing

Again, personal opinions. I know myself, you dont. I wont self destruct, and that quote will not apply to me. I've been through these types of games for over 20 years and it never bores me to try and achieve the most efficient builds for farming, content clearing, PvP or whatever.

You keep rambling personal opinions as if they were facts. In the end it is just your opinion. All of the theorycrafting is still there for a min-maxer seeking to optimize builds for the farming etc. None of that goes away. You need to stop putting your own personal issues onto the mentality of others. You think everyone will burn out when that isnt the case, so stop trying to attribute it to me.

The consideration in multiplayer is still what I personally want to achieve. And if that is top effeciency I'll build for that. Since we have no way of telling what others will bring to a PuG. And like I said before, it doesnt matter if I have a loadout that just 1HKs the content I'm doing or if it 1HKs something higher, since in the end it is a 1HK in either case. So just an utter waste of time to swap individual pieces or loadouts between missions. In the end it wouldnt matter either, since your issue if that you are left with nothing to do, which would be the same no matter if I brought the "low" or the "high" gear since either would kill the content equally fast.

[Merkranire]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yet I havent ran into any issues getting "stomped" when playing my support choices. I still have a great time and good opportunities to kill and feel engaged. Or are you again talking about only that trivial low level content that most people just want to be done with since no matter what you do it will never get engaging?

That is your opinion. And for me, it doesnt matter if I change builds to consider the content, because if my goal is efficiency to get the most out of the mission I play, it really doesnt matter if I 1HK the enemies with a weapon/frame that can tackle several hundreds of levels or if I 1HK them with a weapon/frame built to just 1HK that lower content, since in the end, both end up with the same "issues" for you, things dying to fast in your personal opinion.

So now people cannot experiment around different things? I'm experimenting with build to reach high efficiency when farming. And fun doesnt collide with efficiency, because for me getting to the more efficient point of farming is fun. It is a "you" problem, since you are attributing your idea of fun onto others still. Your idea of fun is not my idea of fun, my fun is intact when pushing efficiency and I then have fun playing those builds aswell since they are enjoyable for different reasons.

And sure, the farm (you apprently dont like to farm since you keep refering to it as grinding) happens automatically, but that doesnt mean the farm is automatically good and rewarding. There is a massive difference in loot yield depending on how fast you kill or clear missions. And the reward from playing the game extensively is us being allowed to make the farming as efficient as possible. I've already been though the content at a slow pace as I increased my power, I'm not going to slow down just because someone else is limited in their farm speed due to being new or not wanting to improve themselves and make use of what their time spent on the game has rewarded them.

Again, personal opinions. I know myself, you dont. I wont self destruct, and that quote will not apply to me. I've been through these types of games for over 20 years and it never bores me to try and achieve the most efficient builds for farming, content clearing, PvP or whatever.

You keep rambling personal opinions as if they were facts. In the end it is just your opinion. All of the theorycrafting is still there for a min-maxer seeking to optimize builds for the farming etc. None of that goes away. You need to stop putting your own personal issues onto the mentality of others. You think everyone will burn out when that isnt the case, so stop trying to attribute it to me.

The consideration in multiplayer is still what I personally want to achieve. And if that is top effeciency I'll build for that. Since we have no way of telling what others will bring to a PuG. And like I said before, it doesnt matter if I have a loadout that just 1HKs the content I'm doing or if it 1HKs something higher, since in the end it is a 1HK in either case. So just an utter waste of time to swap individual pieces or loadouts between missions. In the end it wouldnt matter either, since your issue if that you are left with nothing to do, which would be the same no matter if I brought the "low" or the "high" gear since either would kill the content equally fast.

The #*!% are you talking about, Ervin?

[Tesla_Reloaded]

Guys, guys!

How long are you going to keep arguing in the topic that's clearly made for trolling purpose? Because the question asked here is absolutely irrelevant due to lack of context.

[Merkranire]

9 hours ago, Tesla_Reloaded said:

Guys, guys!

How long are you going to keep arguing in the topic that's clearly made for trolling purpose? Because the question asked here is absolutely irrelevant due to lack of context.

OP’s demonstrating a willingness to step back and wonder what to do in a scenario where someone complains, demonstrating a trait that most others are lacking, and it’s considered a troll topic?

Why then, let me reiterate what I said before; OP, tell the other guy to get bent. You do you, it’s completely acceptable and in fact it’s defended that you join multiplayer with next to zero consideration for what you’re doing and what your presence and the actions that you take means. The only reason you should listen to someone else is if you run the risk of being reported or you’re hurting your own gameplay, it’s as simple as that. After all, it’s public, anything goes, they knew what they were signing up for when they joined, and if they got a problem with you, OP, well tough titties

[Tesla_Reloaded]

5 часов назад, Merkranire сказал:

OP’s demonstrating a willingness to step back and wonder what to do in a scenario where someone complains, demonstrating a trait that most others are lacking, and it’s considered a troll topic?

Why then, let me reiterate what I said before; OP, tell the other guy to get bent. You do you, it’s completely acceptable and in fact it’s defended that you join multiplayer with next to zero consideration for what you’re doing and what your presence and the actions that you take means. The only reason you should listen to someone else is if you run the risk of being reported or you’re hurting your own gameplay, it’s as simple as that. After all, it’s public, anything goes, they knew what they were signing up for when they joined, and if they got a problem with you, OP, well tough titties

You're one determinate troll feeder, aren't you? So eagerly feeding a troll that didn't response even once in their own topic, didn't prove or disprove anyone, didn't provide any additional info on their EXTREMELY VAGUE AND UNCLEAR situation that's described in merely two lines of text.

Your tenacity is admirable, but your efforts could be used for something way more beneficial than that.

[Merkranire]

6 minutes ago, Tesla_Reloaded said:

You're one determinate troll feeder, aren't you? So eagerly feeding a troll that didn't response even once in their own topic, didn't prove or disprove anyone, didn't provide any additional info on their EXTREMELY VAGUE AND UNCLEAR situation that's described in merely two lines of text.

Your tenacity is admirable, but your efforts could be used for something way more beneficial than that.

Scenario: Someone complained about my actions, what do I do?

Some players rightly responded with “Ask why”. Seems pretty cut and dry to me, since asking why is showing the barest modicum of consideration. Where it falls apart is when players are like “Oh, there’s nothing to be done about my behaviour, sorry. Them’s the rules of joining public, lawl”.

And what beneficial thing would you suggest doing? Something about multiplayer? Maybe I should join the discussion where people’s toys should be taken away because they can’t play nice with others, forcing people to actually play alongside each other while they try to avoid it as much as possible despite joining the mode where there’s other players

[Tesla_Reloaded]

29 минут назад, Merkranire сказал:

Scenario: Someone complained about my actions, what do I do?

Some players rightly responded with “Ask why”. Seems pretty cut and dry to me, since asking why is showing the barest modicum of consideration. Where it falls apart is when players are like “Oh, there’s nothing to be done about my behaviour, sorry. Them’s the rules of joining public, lawl”.

And what beneficial thing would you suggest doing? Something about multiplayer? Maybe I should join the discussion where people’s toys should be taken away because they can’t play nice with others, forcing people to actually play alongside each other while they try to avoid it as much as possible despite joining the mode where there’s other players

Sorry, pal, I'm not joining you in your troll feeding campaign. I just wish you the best and hope that one day you'll see how pointless your conversation is. Until then you're welcome to stay with your opinion alone.

Edited May 24 by Tesla_Reloaded

[Merkranire]

20 minutes ago, Tesla_Reloaded said:

Sorry, pal, I'm not joining you in your troll feeding campaign. I just wish you the best and hope that one day you'll see how pointless your conversation is. Until then you're welcome to stay with your opinion alone.

Yeah, it’s pretty pointless. Learning some things about how some people think though, which then causes other puzzle pieces of interpretation of the motivation and actions of the greater community to fall into place, so that’s interesting.

Expecting the current state of multiplayer to change is laughably naive so long as it’s up to the players to decide how it goes, I’m just glad I’m not forced to treat the game like a second job while standing around doing nothing except waiting for time to pass like it’s some kind of idle clicker

[user_85631]

Sorry, to provide additional context I was using Loki with an ether sword with a riven, I was honestly using my loadout in a conjunction survival because that is where I usually go to for funny loadouts noted steel path. I was surprised that my loadout was quite good overall and then my teammate said “stop attacking”, I gave a sad face and just left the match by aborting it. So I pretty much got my answer in the first reply of this thread saying that I maybe should not write a thread about it. Sorry for the thread. I did not know that this thread will be this long so I did not check back on it.

[Merkranire]

7 hours ago, user_85631 said:

Sorry, to provide additional context I was using Loki with an ether sword with a riven, I was honestly using my loadout in a conjunction survival because that is where I usually go to for funny loadouts noted steel path. I was surprised that my loadout was quite good overall and then my teammate said “stop attacking”, I gave a sad face and just left the match by aborting it. So I pretty much got my answer in the first reply of this thread saying that I maybe should not write a thread about it. Sorry for the thread. I did not know that this thread will be this long so I did not check back on it.

You’ll note that being told what to do or that they’re being a problem puts some players on the defense

Ignore those players. If someone brings up an issue, seeking further clarification is one of the better options