We Want The Old "quick Thinking" Back

[Mastikator2]

QT+R should never have been as good as it was, you should have to rely on skill to deal with late game. Nerfing it to obscurity is a good move that overall improves the game.

[2Fat2Kill2]

QT+R should never have been as good as it was, you should have to rely on skill to deal with late game. Nerfing it to obscurity is a good move that overall improves the game.

What skill? Oh and... welcome to Warframe!

Edited November 28, 2013 by 2Fat2Kill2

[Aliiias]

I'm honestly a fan of the QTRage combo. Was it overpowered? Hells to the yes. Was it fun? Hells to the yes! Let me try to explain why I think such a combo is acceptable within this game:

 

In most kinds of ARPGs (which I wouldn't strictly classify Warframe as, but there are many similarities), getting rare and powerful loot is a huge part of the game. Many would argue that it is even the central part of the game. Part of the fun of getting loot is seeing what kinds of crazy and unique combinations you can come up with. Games like Path of Exile and even Borderlands rely on getting loot as the major draws of the game. But Warframe doesn't have loot systems like those games. We get parts to craft new items, sure, but the items aren't at all randomized. Instead, we get mods. So, one of the few cool combos we can (and did) come up with, was QTRage.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but for me, it felt great when I finally managed to get my hands on Quick Thinking (I had Rage for quite a long while but never found Quick Thinking) because it meant that I could try something new and fun. It was one of those rare moments in this game where I was really, truly excited about getting something, since most things we find are rather boring upgrades (e.g. slightly more damage, or slightly more shields, etc.)

 

I do agree that the QTRage combo was overpowered, and probably TOO overpowered. But right now, with the way Quick Thinking now works, the combo is just so severely weak. I would not at all have minded a nerf to Quick Thinking's conversion rate (if Quick Thinking still worked the same way as it worked before), but now it's just silly. The QTRage combo deserves to be strong and competitive.

 

EDIT:

 

QT+R should never have been as good as it was, you should have to rely on skill to deal with late game. Nerfing it to obscurity is a good move that overall improves the game.

 

I just wanted to say, Warframe is certainly not a skill-based game, nor should it be. Games like this with an emphasis on grind should never be skill-based games. If I wanted to play a skill-based game, I would play a competitive multiplayer game based on player vs player interactions like Street Fighter. I would not play a cooperative-focused multiplayer game based around shooting the AI. That's simply just not how skill works.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Aliiias

[pawala]

You know, now that I think about it, it would have been fine if they added a cooldown to the Quick Thinking revive. Maybe 30-60 seconds? So that at the very least you can't just suicide jump into the middle of a heavy mosh pit and expect to spam 4 till eternity.

 

I kind of feel sorry for those who paid huge amounts of plat for either mods. DE owes them a refund. And for the record, I didn't spend anything but fun times for mine.

[Ratiasu]

I support the nerf.

[ViLeDeth]

People who support the nerf are Trolls and have been owned by people using QT+R in Conclaves.

 

All DE had to do is make sure it was harder to get QT or discontinue it from transmutation/farming Corrupt ancients.

 

For Conclaves, just deactivate the QT+R combo from activating at all.

 

 

Now here come the trolls looking to talk trash and make up excuses about how everything should be nerfed because they dont have it or they dont like knowing people are having more fun than they are.

 

 

Trolls, just stop pretending you have skill in a game that doesn't let you transfer those skills into the real world, k? I'm here to have fun with weird setups and enjoy the game for these reasons. 

 

You've convinced DE using your mastery in the b&%$ing department. Congrats.

Edited November 28, 2013 by ViLeDeth

[Darkmoone1]

People who support the nerf are Trolls and have been owned by people using QT+R in Conclaves.

I don't think Conclaves is the motive for this nerf...

[Notso]

ViLeDeth, on 28 Nov 2013 - 2:08 PM, said:

People who support the nerf are Trolls and have been owned by people using QT+R in Conclaves.

All DE had to do is make sure it was harder to get QT or discontinue it from transmutation/farming Corrupt ancients.

For Conclaves, just deactivate the QT+R combo from activating at all.

Now here come the trolls looking to talk trash and make up excuses about how everything should be nerfed because they dont have it or they dont like knowing people are having more fun than they are.

Trolls, just stop pretending you have skill in a game that doesn't let you transfer those skills into the real world, k? I'm here to have fun with weird setups and enjoy the game for these reasons.

You've convinced DE using your mastery in the b&%$ing department. Congrats.

Yeah, because PvP is the only situation in which it's bad to have perma-invincibility, it's perfectly fine in PvE. Yeah. Right.

I might even go so far as to say that people who don't support the QT+R combo nerf use it as a crutch in PvE, just like people used the old Iron Skin... But that would be generalizing, so I'll just say that certainly some of the people not supporting the nerf used QT+R as a crutch.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Notso

[Keltik0ne]

Yeah, because PvP is the only situation in which it's bad to have perma-invincibility, it's perfectly fine in PvE. Yeah. Right.

I might even go so far as to say that people who don't support the QT+R combo nerf use it as a crutch in PvE, just like people used the old Iron Skin... But that would be generalizing, so I'll just say that certainly some of the people not supporting the nerf used QT+R as a crutch.

Don't try and argue with tthem, it's ok to be overpowered in a RPG apparantly.

Oh they will also feel sorry for you for supporting DE with cash because you believed in the game a year ago.

[low1991]

Actually running Rage+QT on Trinity works even better now because it does not drain your full Energy and gives you time to cast Blessing whiles spasming around ^^

Agrees ^

 

QT + Rage Combo + Max PE + EV + Blessing = 99% immortality.

QT slowly drains your energy... EV with Max PE = shorter interval between Energy recovered tick

Blessing for Full health & shield...

 

it's OP!! DE NERFED  TRINITY!!!

ops... shouldn't have said it.~

 

i'm not raging about the nerf on QT + rage combo...

what i'm raging or QQing about is the Mod Point Cost for Un-scaling QT 

Edited November 28, 2013 by low1991

[FlightyBroad]

I just miss the stuff I traded for QT. ;;

[Vreal]

I got to agree with complaint above, quick thinking was nerf to the point of useless, eventhough it previously OP but can still die if when u reach higher level oponent. DE at least if u want to nerf it pls be reasonable dont nerf the thing to the point of " the mod isnt worth it"

[Guest Shibboleet]

Eh, some sort of survivability is needed for the higher level areas, the most common is redirection, and yeah, one could argue flow isn't REQUIRED, but it sure is helpful.

No, they're not. At a certain point when something can one shot you with or without redirection, it becomes a wasted mod slot.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

No, they're not. At a certain point when something can one shot you with or without redirection, it becomes a wasted mod slot.

And how high is that? Pretty high, so high, that the devs don't really intend you to reach that high. (not a group, but where ONE enemy will one shot is far higher than the devs intended)

 

And please, tell me how redirection/vitality are more or less required in normal play. Using your logic, NOTHING is required, in fact, why fight enemies? They'll just one shot you at a high enough level regardless of what you do... I agree that QT was OP, but the nerf they gave it was WAY too hard.

[Guest Shibboleet]

And how high is that? Pretty high, so high, that the devs don't really intend you to reach that high. (not a group, but where ONE enemy will one shot is far higher than the devs intended)

 

And please, tell me how redirection/vitality are more or less required in normal play. Using your logic, NOTHING is required, in fact, why fight enemies? They'll just one shot you at a high enough level regardless of what you do... I agree that QT was OP, but the nerf they gave it was WAY too hard.

Can you point me to where they stated what level we're not suppose to reach? I have actually been searching for something like this for quite some time now. I will actually never assume that the devs intend levels to never reach that high when survival or defense scales and lasts infinitely.

 

I never stated they were ever needed in 'normal' play, this was you. You don't actually need either of those mods to play from level 1 to level 2000 (personal experience). And by wasted mod slots, I was meaning instead of throwing those 2 into your frame you could be putting something useful in, such as blind rage, overextend, focus. As for enemies one shotting at higher levels, the goal is to not let them hit you. This is where redirection becomes useless, because enemies are not going to be hitting you.

 

The U11 QT was like super mario 3d world (cinemassacre):

Edited November 29, 2013 by Shibboleet

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Can you point me to where they stated what level we're not suppose to reach? I have actually been searching for something like this for quite some time now. I will actually never assume anything that the devs intend if something like survival or defense scales and lasts infinitely.

 

I never stated they were ever needed in 'normal' play, this was you. You don't actually need either of those mods to play from level 1 to level 2000 (personal experience). And by wasted mod slots, I was meaning instead of throwing those 2 into your frame you could be putting something useful in, such as blind rage, overextend, focus. As for enemies one shotting at higher levels, the goal is to not let them hit you. This is where redirection becomes useless, because enemies are not going to be hitting you.

 

The U11 QT was like super mario 3d world (cinemassacre):

I cannot point you to it offhand, but common sense dictates that they never really intended people to go to level 2000 because of how scaling works. It works to a certain point fairly well, then eventually is just nuts.

 

And again, but your logic, nothing is a must have. QT was OP, which is why it needed a nerf, it however did not need to be stripped of all usefulness which was what was done.

[Guest Shibboleet]

I cannot point you to it offhand, but common sense dictates that they never really intended people to go to level 2000 because of how scaling works. It works to a certain point fairly well, then eventually is just nuts.

 

And again, but your logic, nothing is a must have. QT was OP, which is why it needed a nerf, it however did not need to be stripped of all usefulness which was what was done.

Common sense is relative. Bad example here, but a 5 year old can believe that it's common sense that they deserve candy, and a 20 year old not believing that they deserve candy.

 

It's still usable, just not to the extent that it was. My group was using it vs infested earlier tonight while I was away for an hour and 20 minutes. Granted this is not the level 600's of today (roughly level 1500 from the old system; as for the level 2000's I was using the old system levels...I've only seen level 600's with this system so far), but they still claimed it gave them a second life. My logic states that you are wasting a mod slot if you can make your warframe powers stronger in any way, but opt into redirection instead. My logic also states that you should avoid being hit by an enemy; it is very possible to do so. Even if someone dies, teammates are there for a reason. No where in my logic has been implied that increasing the effectiveness of your abilities isn't needed; In fact, it is what I am implying.

 

I can give a list of must haves per frame/weapon, but I'd rather post that in players helping players.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Shibboleet

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Common sense is relative. Bad example here, but a 5 year old can believe that it's common sense that they deserve candy, and a 20 year old not believing that they deserve candy.

 

It's still usable, just not to the extent that it was. My group was using it vs infested earlier tonight while I was away for an hour and 20 minutes. Granted this is not the level 600's of today (roughly level 1500 from the old system; as for the level 2000's I was using the old system levels...I've only seen level 600's with this system so far), but they still claimed it gave them a second life. My logic states that you are wasting a mod slot if you can make your warframe powers stronger in any way, but opt into redirection instead. My logic also states that you should avoid being hit by an enemy; it is very possible to do so. Even if someone dies, teammates are there for a reason. No where in my logic has been implied that increasing the effectiveness of your abilities isn't needed; In fact, it is what I am implying.

Fair point on the common sense bit. Everything is "usable", but that doesn't mean it's worth using. 13 points to remain stuck at 2HP while enemies stunlock you is not worth using (although it's ranged enemies that mainly do this, because they have a bigger damage area, whereas infested have to be in melee range. And yeah, I knew you were talking about the old system).

[Guest Shibboleet]

It's still nice with a trinity in the group =)

 

Also was a bit ridiculous with the previous version watching my friend stay after survival time ending for about 5-6 minutes stumbling around with 20+ moas shooting at him.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Shibboleet

[KvotheTheArcane1]

It's still nice with a trinity in the group =)

Eh, everything is better with a trinity, the healing more or less "fixes" the problem with QTR, but really, that's a bandaid, not a fix.

[Mastikator2]

Fair point on the common sense bit. Everything is "usable", but that doesn't mean it's worth using. 13 points to remain stuck at 2HP while enemies stunlock you is not worth using (although it's ranged enemies that mainly do this, because they have a bigger damage area, whereas infested have to be in melee range. And yeah, I knew you were talking about the old system).

That would buy time for your allies to help you, as soon as the aggro is drawn away you won't even need resurrecting.

 

But maybe you're right, maybe a one trick pony should be all that is needed.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

That would buy time for your allies to help you, as soon as the aggro is drawn away you won't even need resurrecting.

 

But maybe you're right, maybe a one trick pony should be all that is needed.

Look at the mod on it's own, not "If your allies do this or that...", that only works in premade teams if someone has the proper stuff.

 

And it's a "one trick pony" either way. Now it "buys you enough time for your allies to help you" (although in reality it just gets you killed/drain a large amount of energy), and if it was properly nerfed (i.e. lowering the % on QT, giving it a cooldown, etc) it'd be a one trick pony too.

 

And you're assuming that I want it back to where it was, which I don't. As I've stated MANY times, if you'd have bothered to read, I dunno, ANY of my other many posts on this subject. Hell, nerfing it to 200% means you lose 90HP on the first "death", and at 160% you lose 108. (assuming you're at 300HP and energy)

[pawala]

I really think DE should just bring back the old mechanics but add a cooldown. That should prevent the whine-base from screaming immortal hax!

 

26 mod points for a 2nd chance of surviving every minute to scramble to safety or pop that ult.

 

That sounds way more exciting and fun to me than a crappy additional 10 seconds of being knocked down.

 

Again that's 26 mod points worth. That's mod space you're not using on more damage, higher range, or direct survivability.

 

I mean, nobody's screaming nerf Redirection when it brings way more damage mitigation in the long run.

[yiN_]

QT doesn't even do what his description says...

Nerf would have been a good thing if it wasn't done so badly.

You just had to lower a bit the % on QT or on Rage or add a little cooldown on QT.

Edited November 29, 2013 by yiN_

[2Fat2Kill2]

I really think DE should just bring back the old mechanics but add a cooldown. That should prevent the whine-base from screaming immortal hax!

 

26 mod points for a 2nd chance of surviving every minute to scramble to safety or pop that ult.

 

That sounds way more exciting and fun to me than a crappy additional 10 seconds of being knocked down.

 

Again that's 26 mod points worth. That's mod space you're not using on more damage, higher range, or direct survivability.

 

I mean, nobody's screaming nerf Redirection when it brings way more damage mitigation in the long run.

Good idea, or they could lower the % efficiency.