Arcane Prices

[MekaDovah]

Anyone else think it's weird that I can get stuff like Arcane Avenger and Arcane Aegis for 5 motes a piece, but Energize, Grace, and Barrier are sectioned off and cost and oddball 46 per?

I suppose it's this "legendary" status, but given how power crept Arcane Energize is already, it is really worth padding things out with an absurdly high cost? Wasn't the whole point to avoid burn out? And don't say "I wasn't supposed to max them out" because if I wasn't suppose to get them, then they shouldn't even be there to begin with.

Edited June 21 by MekaDovah

[3xt1inct]

 same comment was made in this forum post. 

[R1exus]

DE: "We wanna avoid burnout"

Also DE : Makes event take LITERAL WEEKS to obtain the items. 

Boy i sure hope soulframe won't be this grindy. 

[3xt1inct]

19 hours ago, R1exus said:

DE: "We wanna avoid burnout"

Also DE : Makes event take LITERAL WEEKS to obtain the items. 

Boy i sure hope soulframe won't be this grindy. 

Estimated time to unlock all event loottable rewards (every cosmetic once, a set of every different arcane (21 arcanes/set)) is 40 hours when running the ascension event exclusively, with the alerts that time gets reduced to about 36 hours... which is a lot better than the normal way, which is eidolon hunting and would take you approx 300 hrs of eidolon hunting exclusively. former events all hat and estimated full unlock time between 80-150 hours, gargoyle's cry (last event) saw some players run it for 310 hours (10 hrs/day) while 1 full unlock took approx 80 hours, if the rewards were capped, these players would've "only" played 160 hours. 

So yes they halved the risk of burnout, still noone forces you to play, your health is your own responsibility. Also player retention does not benefit from "warframe burnout", so it was in DE's financial interest to do this as well.

Soulframe will be grindy, possibly much more than warframe, DE steve always wanted to make warframe more punishing for the players (by prolonging grind and upping difficulty artificially, see the one shotting liches PE), seeing as soulframe is his project and he is no longer surrounded by the voices of reason that made warframe less grindy than Steve intended, you could be in for a serious grindgame. 

[Saru.EXE]

Setting the price to 46 motes per arcane is borderline idiotic, especially when they are limited. Just change it to 10-15 a piece, it's almost like they want ppl to burn out on this crap...

[3xt1inct]

Ill keep it simple, nothing in life is free, you either pay directly with money or indirectly with time (in this case grind). DE has a business model that needs some type of income to function. Ideally they benefit from both time investment by non-paying players, or income from paying players, which is exactly the case here. Non-paying players grind items, either for themselves or for plat, the items they grind and sell, incentivizing paying players to buy plat to acquire these items from others, this way the time of the non paying player gets monetized. By Participating in active trading DE has successfully monetized your free time, for their gain. Thus the longer the grind for non-paying players, the more expensive the item traded, the more money DE makes.

This business model also makes sure you are provided entertainment in the form of a game, that I hope you still are actively enjoying. It is a monetization of entertainment. If your entertainment gives you FOMO or controls you to burnout, I recommend you go see a doctor.

16 hours ago, Saru.EXE said:

Setting the price to 46 motes per arcane is borderline idiotic, especially when they are limited. Just change it to 10-15 a piece, it's almost like they want ppl to burn out on this crap...

[(PSN)BAM-BAM-73]

18 hours ago, Saru.EXE said:

Setting the price to 46 motes per arcane is borderline idiotic, especially when they are limited. Just change it to 10-15 a piece, it's almost like they want ppl to burn out on this crap...

You want end game legendary arcanes for less than one 10 minute run of SP ascension?  Sorry but that's utterly daft.

[quxier]

22 minutes ago, (PSN)BAM-BAM-73 said:

19 hours ago, Saru.EXE said:

Setting the price to 46 motes per arcane is borderline idiotic, especially when they are limited. Just change it to 10-15 a piece, it's almost like they want ppl to burn out on this crap...

You want end game legendary arcanes for less than one 10 minute run of SP ascension?  Sorry but that's utterly daft.

You get, like, 10 Volatile motes per 7 minutes in random squad? You need 21 arcanes. That's 147-220 minutes for 1 maxed arcane. That's not something small....

[(PSN)BAM-BAM-73]

13 minutes ago, quxier said:

You get, like, 10 Volatile motes per 7 minutes in random squad? You need 21 arcanes. That's 147-220 minutes for 1 maxed arcane. That's not something small....

Well it's all relative.

We started by getting one arcane for completing a raid. Then things got much easier, we just needed to spend a few hundred hours on eidelons...

Now we can spend a few 10's of hours on ascension.

If it gets any easier they'll be handed out as daily log-in rewards!

In my opinion end game items should be hard to obtain, else we'd blow through content in a weekend and complain about not having anything to do.

Other opinions are available of course, and whatever DE do they will upset 35% of the player base. I don't envy them for these decisions.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, (PSN)BAM-BAM-73 said:

1 hour ago, quxier said:

You get, like, 10 Volatile motes per 7 minutes in random squad? You need 21 arcanes. That's 147-220 minutes for 1 maxed arcane. That's not something small....

Well it's all relative.

We started by getting one arcane for completing a raid. Then things got much easier, we just needed to spend a few hundred hours on eidelons...

If it's relative then compare it to other games. 100 is enough to finishing probably most titles. 10 is enough to finish shorten one.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)BAM-BAM-73 said:

 

If it gets any easier they'll be handed out as daily log-in rewards!

In my opinion end game items should be hard to obtain, else we'd blow through content in a weekend and complain about not having anything to do.

It's not hard. It's just time gated in some way. If there is nothing to do maybe they need more content?

[3xt1inct]

10 hours ago, quxier said:

If it's relative then compare it to other games. 100 is enough to finishing probably most titles. 10 is enough to finish shorten one.

 

It's not hard. It's just time gated in some way. If there is nothing to do maybe they need more content?

Ok so 100 in game hours is not enough for most players to get to max prestige or max rank in most shooter games, those ranks and levels often have rewards behind them. 

Games that are finished in 100 hours are most often not live-service games, warframe is live-service it also means content keeps getting added. Yes in 2012 you could finish the game in less than 100 hours, at least if you did not want to forma any weapons, also in 2012 most stuff was locked behind a hard paywall, without the possibility to grind for it, do you rather have the hard paywall and fork up the cash? You are still free to do so!

You probably have never experienced the trials or the first eidolon hunts in 2018, I did, i can tell you back then it was hard AF, not just timegated. Teams would have to be well balanced, warframes, weapons and consumables selected carefully (no extended gear wheel). Grinding arcanes the eidolon way will take you about 300 hours, good luck.

[Aerikx]

I don't get the price.

They capped how many we can buy so why place a high price?

Boggles the mind.

[quxier]

7 hours ago, 3xt1inct said:

18 hours ago, quxier said:

If it's relative then compare it to other games. 100 is enough to finishing probably most titles. 10 is enough to finish shorten one

Ok so 100 in game hours is not enough for most players to get to max prestige or max rank in most shooter games, those ranks and levels often have rewards behind them. 

Games that are finished in 100 hours are most often not live-service games

You are comparing something like your base Mario games and Kaizo levels. Like I can probably finish Mario (1st) but I won't probably even finish baby Kaizo level in HOURS.

You are waving "it's life service game" like it's ok to have 100 hours for just few item. Life service games just makes our standards very low. The amount of books, movies/series, games you can finish in 100 hours would be big.

7 hours ago, 3xt1inct said:

You probably have never experienced the trials or the first eidolon hunts in 2018, I did, i can tell you back then it was hard AF, not just timegated. Teams would have to be well balanced, warframes, weapons and consumables selected carefully (no extended gear wheel). Grinding arcanes the eidolon way will take you about 300 hours, good luck.

Maybe it was hard. I don't know. I have not tried it too much for long time because it was frustrating solo. Still, beating it few times is ok. But expecting me to beat it hundreds times is not hard.

[Saru.EXE]

On 2024-06-29 at 3:25 PM, Aerikx said:

I don't get the price.

They capped how many we can buy so why place a high price?

Boggles the mind.

My thoughts exactly.

[3xt1inct]

On 2024-06-29 at 3:25 PM, Aerikx said:

I don't get the price.

They capped how many we can buy so why place a high price?

Boggles the mind.

They still want the players who play the game in a healthy manner after work or as entertainment to still have a grind, for two reasons, one warframe markets itself as the looter shooter grind game that makes the grind enjoyable and not just grind to grind, two because they need the players for future generated revenue on plat, in which more time spent means more plat is sold. So it is a question of Identity an business.

[(PSN)BAM-BAM-73]

15 minutes ago, Saru.EXE said:

My thoughts exactly.

Well people trade them for plat. That comes from people buying plat, so it would be pretty silly for DE to reduce the average trade price by 95%.

[Saru.EXE]

9 minutes ago, 3xt1inct said:

They still want the players who play the game in a healthy manner after work or as entertainment to still have a grind, for two reasons, one warframe markets itself as the looter shooter grind game that makes the grind enjoyable and not just grind to grind, two because they need the players for future generated revenue on plat, in which more time spent means more plat is sold. So it is a question of Identity an business.

burning out people by making them run a super repetitive game mode for hours on end just for one fully leveled arcane is playing the game in a healthy manner? nice joke.

[(PSN)BAM-BAM-73]

1 hour ago, Saru.EXE said:

burning out people by making them run a super repetitive game mode for hours on end just for one fully leveled arcane is playing the game in a healthy manner? nice joke.

Well the alerts offer the same motes with a variety of missions, over a period of a month, and nothing says you have to farm the whole thing in one event...

[Aerikx]

1 hour ago, (PSN)BAM-BAM-73 said:

Well people trade them for plat. That comes from people buying plat, so it would be pretty silly for DE to reduce the average trade price by 95%.

To be fair, I think that's the TRUE reason why they placed a purchase cap. 

They claim it's to a oid burn out which we try to give them benefit of the doubt.

But in Scarlet Spear folks bought so many Arcanes that it heavily damaged the play market.

To say it'd reduce the price by 95% is absolute hyperbole.

Especially considering the event is extremely well gated off. Requiring The New War and Jade Shadows completion to even participate in. 

Which contrary the people on the forums belief, is actually quite a high barrier. (The bulk of people here forget about The New War's prerequisite requirements... IE: Railjack, Necramech, etc) 

Out of all the people I know in game. Half of them didn't even know an event was going on (they're new/intermediate. Not at New War yet), they just assumed a new frame and quest dropped. They only knew of the event because I was busy participating in it. Although I'm burned out on it now. And I just farmed Jade, her weapons, and the event items (not Arcanes). 

That all said...

Limiting folks to 2 maxed copies doesn't endanger the market at all. Unlimited purchases like before (folks who farmed 43 max ranked copies) that I see as a significant problem. (Those people also need therapy.)

[Saru.EXE]

1 hour ago, (PSN)BAM-BAM-73 said:

Well the alerts offer the same motes with a variety of missions, over a period of a month, and nothing says you have to farm the whole thing in one event...

Ah yes, the alerts, which is just the same type of missions we've been doing for the past decade, great choice there. Honestly, it's so friggin lazy and uninspired.
"Just grind until you die of boredom" seems to be the new motto of DE. What happened to being a space ninja? Are endless elevator rides something space ninjas do these days? The sad answer seems to be yes. An absolute letdown if I've ever seen one...

[L3512]

On 2024-06-29 at 9:59 AM, quxier said:

You get, like, 10 Volatile motes per 7 minutes in random squad? You need 21 arcanes. That's 147-220 minutes for 1 maxed arcane. That's not something small....

Average of 12 per mission and you can run consistent 5:30 times with a good squad. Even your 220 minute mark is more than fair for maxed legendary arcanes though.

[(PSN)BAM-BAM-73]

1 hour ago, Aerikx said:

To say it'd reduce the price by 95% is absolute hyperbole.

Perhaps, but if, as is the request here, the mote cost was dropped to 10, then I believe any player would running these missions would farm sets to sell. 

In every pub group I join there are usually several MR30+ players so I think there plenty of people who would farm.

If every senior-ish player had spates to sell I don't think a temporary market price drop of 90% is totally out of the question.

 

[Saru.EXE]

1 minute ago, (PSN)BAM-BAM-73 said:

Perhaps, but if, as is the request here, the mote cost was dropped to 10, then I believe any player would running these missions would farm sets to sell. 

In every pub group I join there are usually several MR30+ players so I think there plenty of people who would farm.

If every senior-ish player had spates to sell I don't think a temporary market price drop of 90% is totally out of the question.

 

1 to use for myself and 1 to potentially sell, should hardly be a problem. Will arcane prices drop? Of course they will, but by 90%? Highly unlikely. Demand will not plummet into the abyss just because a relative handful of players have some spare arcanes. You seem to be forgetting that only a very small part of the playerbase is MR30 and above. Last time I checked the average was MR12 and at that level you won't have tons of spare arcanes.

[LOKMANV]

On 2024-06-25 at 10:55 AM, 3xt1inct said:

Estimated time to unlock all event loottable rewards (every cosmetic once, a set of every different arcane (21 arcanes/set)) is 40 hours when running the ascension event exclusively, with the alerts that time gets reduced to about 36 hours... which is a lot better than the normal way, which is eidolon hunting and would take you approx 300 hrs of eidolon hunting exclusively. former events all hat and estimated full unlock time between 80-150 hours, gargoyle's cry (last event) saw some players run it for 310 hours (10 hrs/day) while 1 full unlock took approx 80 hours, if the rewards were capped, these players would've "only" played 160 hours. 

So yes they halved the risk of burnout, still noone forces you to play, your health is your own responsibility. Also player retention does not benefit from "warframe burnout", so it was in DE's financial interest to do this as well.

Soulframe will be grindy, possibly much more than warframe, DE steve always wanted to make warframe more punishing for the players (by prolonging grind and upping difficulty artificially, see the one shotting liches PE), seeing as soulframe is his project and he is no longer surrounded by the voices of reason that made warframe less grindy than Steve intended, you could be in for a serious grindgame. 

people like you is what's wrong with the game , people who think these levels of grind is totally normal , people played 10 hours a day last event bcz they want to finish the event as soon as possible , its not the grind that bother us its the length of it . so how about u stop being so technical and be quiet bcz players has other things to do ingame . there are daily rewards / weekly rewards to farm , dont forget about preparing for baroo , which most people didnt get to do bcz of the grind . 

[quxier]

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

Average of 12 per mission and you can run consistent 5:30 times with a good squad. Even your 220 minute mark is more than fair for maxed legendary arcanes though.

Ok, it's average 12 (I've not noted that) but 5:30 is like running pre-made squad. Possible but it takes time to find it. Say, you run it 5 times. You get like 7.5 minutes less in time. Well, but you need to wait 5-10 minutes doing nothing. Unless you are in clans or something you won't run it in ~5;30. I don't think I've come close to that time in public. My average were 7.

 

4 hours ago, 3xt1inct said:

On 2024-06-29 at 3:25 PM, Aerikx said:

I don't get the price.

They capped how many we can buy so why place a high price?

Boggles the mind.

They still want the players who play the game in a healthy manner after work or as entertainment to still have a grind, for two reasons, one warframe markets itself as the looter shooter grind game that makes the grind enjoyable and not just grind to grind, two because they need the players for future generated revenue on plat, in which more time spent means more plat is sold. So it is a question of Identity an business.

I wouldn't call it healthy unless you want to plat (bolded part).