Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[dwqrf]

il y a 6 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Where does this fit in? The intent behind K-Drive mods seems clear to me: you can use them to deal damage to enemies. But 40 damage?

Trail Blazer looks cool.

il y a 7 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

This one reads like it should be useful. But that "+100% of Melee Damage" is your weapon's base, unmodded damage. So what, a couple hundred at best?

Gale kick allows you to do an exterminate mission with 0 kills as slide kick kills aren't counted as kills.

il y a 8 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

No, because my subjective idea of fun which I and I alone define for myself is not wrong. I know what I think is fun and you do not. That's not for you to decide for me. That is for me to decide. "Maybe your idea of fun is wrong", what even. 🤦‍♀️

That's exaclty why I specifically wrote : TO ME.
 

il y a 9 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

For example, the Carmine Penta with its "Carmine" variant. Yet the Carmine Penta is garbage.

Yes, Carmine exist only because of the Chinese Version. It was never intended by DE. I can say the weapon is as good as the version.
 

il y a 10 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Many Incarnons, like Vasto Incarnon, are really not that good in comparison to the heavyweights like Torid or Burston. And like, where's the Cedo fit in here? The Cedo is really good! But it's just a Normal. I love my Quellor, and it's also really good! Also a Normal. And my Prisma Gorgon Incarnon is both a Prisma and an Incarnon, yet in the scheme of things it's really not all that strong.

Again, you are taking it out of context. Incarnon weapons are not balanced between each other ; they just features top end version in each categories of weapons. You can easily compare a Vasto, a Vasto prime, and a Vasto incarnon. A Gorgon Incarnon, even if top end of the Gorgon family, is still based on a Gorgon variant, which aren't really good weapons ; because, context : those weapons aren't hard to get. You talk about the Quellor and the Cedo ; those are normal variants, but not easy to get. You have to factor everything to see if a weapon is good ; including MR required, way to obtain, IPS, crit, status, and so on. If you want to compare weapons ; many people said it many times : stay in the same categorie of weapon, same family, same type. Don't compare things which are completely different. This is a good starter :

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon_Comparison
 

il y a 17 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Ok, and how many hours is this? If you know what you're doing for Kuva weapons you could go faster than I did but it's clearly doable in under 20h. Maybe Incarnons take another 20. Whatever, I'm making numbers up. So 40 hours. Let's double it just for fun, 80 hours!

Yes, for speedrunner; or people following guide with some gaming experience. Some people can spend undreds of hours before even seeing the new war quest pop up, and then realize they don't even have a Necramech or Railjack. Most people playing warframe are supported by a veteran telling them what to do and where to go; and even carrying them along the way. So there is that. But the raw warframe experience, solo, is extremly difficult, especially if you don't use any outside tools (wiki, youtube, or region chat/help from friends). But it get easier over time when you get more knowledge. And right now, you are totally biased by the amount of knowledge you accumulated and you think everybody should have as much ; or strive to have as much. Most won't, ever.
 

il y a 21 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

So your progression lasts for how long? 1%? And then you get your Kuva/Incarnon/whatever and never need to get another weapon again. You're done. You've won. The remaining 99% of your time is spent doing.... idk?

Warframe never been about getting one single weapon and then stopping to play. Warframe is about playing over and over and over and over ; multiples gamemodes, for multiples loot. Youtubers (and popularity stats you throw everywhere) only create a huge issue that's not needed : players should progress in the star chart at their own speed, learning at their own speed ; but are forced by the community of stupiders to rush through the game to get X and Y. Why ? So they can be bored of the game faster ? People are obsessed about "being good" that they forgot to "become good". That's a journey. I've seen players just do SO/ESO all day. They reach MR16 in a flash, and then.. they don't have mods or ressource, because they never played the star chart.

Once, I was helping a friend. He was low MR, and at some point, I allowed myself to give him one single mod because he was struggling so much : [Adaptation]. Suddenly, any mission became sooo easy, that he lost the sense of meaning and just stopped playing. It was my fault. He had to get his butt kicked for so many hours before trying hard to get new tools to be able at least to play more confortably. Giving him strong tools removed his purpose. In the same way forcing down their throat giving new players the knowledge doesn't allows them to grow by themselves.

No amount of guides truly help a new player if he doesn't learn anything.
 

il y a 31 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

And what if I don't want to play "in normal star chart"? The game will happily hand me my Paracyst and tell me to go do an EDA with it - the highest starting level content currently in the game. As a primer? A style of play I do not like? No, I will enjoy my gun as a gun.

And I wish I could use my toothbrush as a jackhammer. Somehow, it doesn't work well.
 

[PublikDomain]

1 minute ago, dwqrf said:

That's exaclty why I specifically wrote : TO ME.

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

But you never went back to the beginning, thinking that maybe your idea of fun was wrong, or the context to play the weapon was wrong.

❓

3 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Warframe is about playing over and over and over and over ; multiples gamemodes, for multiples loot.

Right. I agree. So those multiples of playstyles, items, mods, frames, pets, mechanics, vehicles, and gear you use to do those multiples of game modes over and over and over again should all be what? Fun? Enjoyable? Or should the game not be fun? Is there value in this content only being fun for a little while? What if it could be fun for longer? Or in there some value in throwing all this content away and never looking at again?

6 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Some people can spend undreds of hours before even seeing the new war quest pop up, and then realize they don't even have a Necramech or Railjack.

Sure. But then others...

6 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

just do SO/ESO all day. They reach MR16 in a flash

It's really not hard to get to a high MR in Warframe, and the usage stats don't lie: players are able to quickly access items like Kuva weapons "in a flash". By the low teens their usage rates for these weapons are around the same as L4s.

12 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Suddenly, any mission became sooo easy, that he lost the sense of meaning and just stopped playing. It was my fault.

So why should the things that led to this continue to happen? 😂

13 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

And I wish I could use my toothbrush as a jackhammer. Somehow, it doesn't work well.

Well good thing we're talking about a building full of jackhammers. Maybe all the jackhammers should be good at being jackhammers? Is there value in a jackhammer that sucks at being a jackhammer? A jackhammer that's only good for 1% of the job?

[dwqrf]

il y a 6 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Well good thing we're talking about a building full of jackhammers.

Or a building full of toothbrushes...

il y a 7 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

So why should the things that led to this continue to happen?

They wouldn't have gotten it without a veteran interference.
 

il y a 8 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

what? Fun? Enjoyable? Or should the game not be fun? Is there value in this content only being fun for a little while? What if it could be fun for longer?

I think you are not having fun with Warframe anymore.

I have a really good suggestion for you, and this is not sarcasm ; this is based on my experience :
Have you tried The First Descendant ?
If yes, did you like it ? If not, then I'd suggest you to give it a fair go. It's a F2P Warframe clone where everything is balanced. It's so balanced that people leave the game after two weeks because they are bored. Try it.

[PublikDomain]

3 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Or a building full of toothbrushes...

Then I'd hope they'd all be good at brushing teeth.

4 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

They wouldn't have gotten it without a veteran interference.

Sure, but what if "playing with your friends" wasn't "veteran interference"? And something as simple as giving someone a mod wasn't a death sentence for their enjoyment of the game?

5 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I think you are not having fun with Warframe anymore.

And you would be wrong. 🤷‍♀️

But I know that I'd have more fun if more of the things I enjoyed didn't suck.

[PublikDomain]

14 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Have you tried The First Descendant ?
If yes, did you like it ? If not, then I'd suggest you to give it a fair go.

And thanks for the recommendation, but I'm good. I'm sure the gameplay is great but the other parts of First Descendant are not really what I'm interested in.

Edited August 22 by PublikDomain

[dwqrf]

il y a 2 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Sure, but what if "playing with your friends" wasn't "veteran interference"? And something as simple as giving someone a mod wasn't a death sentence for their enjoyment of the game?

I gave something which they couldn't get before spending one more hundreds hours, so that make sens it broke their game.

I think also of knowledge. People copy overframe build everyday without putting one single thought in it. They obtain it on the internet without a mr/quest/progression filter.
 

il y a 6 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

But I know that I'd have more fun if more of the things I enjoyed didn't suck.

You'd also have more fun if you accepted the fact that Warframe is chaotic, vibrant, unbalanced, and full of weird sht and discrepancies. It doesn't need to be square, straight, and balanced.


Try The first Descendant. Really. I had a lot of fun at the beginning, it was worth my time.

il y a 3 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

And thanks for the recommendation, but I'm good. I'm sure the gameplay is great but the other parts of First Descendant are not really what I'm interested in.

It's really a warframe clone. 100%. But where everything is balanced. You SHOULD give it a go because it really fit your narrative about what warframe should be. And it made me like warframe's weirdness even more.

[PublikDomain]

7 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

so that make sens it broke their game.

But what if it didn't break their game?

7 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

You'd also have more fun if you accepted the fact that Warframe is chaotic, vibrant, unbalanced, and full of weird sht and discrepancies. It doesn't need to be square, straight, and balanced.

Not a chance, those discrepancies bug the hell out of me. Vibrant I get, weird S#&$ I love, but it can be weird and vibrant without being unbalanced and full of discrepancies.

7 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

It's really a warframe clone. 100%. But where everything is balanced. You SHOULD give it a go because it really fit your narrative about what warframe should be. And it made me like warframe's weirdness even more.

Yeah but I'm not really into the waifu part. Like I said, gameplay is probably fine. But I'm not really looking for the rest.

[dwqrf]

il y a 8 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

But what if it didn't break their game?

Then I would find it sad. It's superior tools made to be a huge step forwards ; not just a piece of tape to move a inch forward.

 

il y a 9 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Yeah but I'm not really into the waifu part. Like I said, gameplay is probably fine. But I'm not really looking for the rest.

Didn't look at graphics. I just played the game for the gunplay, the spells, the modding, forma, relic farming, opening, etc. Just like a good ol' Warframe. The leveling is fun. Best parts : MR doesn't have a 24h cd, a forma is 8h craft, and a frame is 16h.

Since the beginning of our conversation, I'm thinking about TFD in everything you aspire Warframe to be. I was even thinking for a while that it is because of your experience of TFD that'd you want warframe to change in this direction. But if you didn't play it... you ought to. Truly.

[PublikDomain]

19 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Then I would find it sad.

But it caused your friend to quit?

[MrInubis]

8 hours ago, 4thBro said:

Cool words.

Now elaborate on what you meant by them, and how you came to that conclusion.

I asked you a genuine question and you answered like condescending B with and itch. That sums up every single conversation with you.

[MrInubis]

8 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Here is my MR5 test account. It has 14 total hours of playtime:

When i did Second Dream Quest i had 120h....

[4thBro]

10 hours ago, kuciol said:

I asked you a genuine question and you answered like condescending B with and itch. That sums up every single conversation with you.

You? Asked me a genuine question???

I highly doubt that. But repeat the question, and we'll see whether it's genuine, or loaded.

 

I'm not going to sift through 20 pages for something you may have asked me last week.

If it's a genuine question, you'd be more than happy to repeat it once for me, right? I'm right here. I'm paying attention. I will answer this question.

[dwqrf]

Il y a 2 heures, 4thBro a dit :

You? Asked me a genuine question???

I highly doubt that. But repeat the question, and we'll see whether it's genuine, or loaded.

I'm not going to sift through 20 pages for something you may have asked me last week.

If it's a genuine question, you'd be more than happy to repeat it once for me, right? I'm right here. I'm paying attention. I will answer this question.

Why would he ask again ; as you already answered "like a condescending B with a itch", he said.
Why would we go through that again ? Myself, I've asked you many time to give us your proposal for an endgame which you claim is missing... and well, you never answered. I obviously doubt you'll answer this time.


4thbro trying again to get attention in a topic he never contributed to.

[4thBro]

20 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Why would he ask again--

 

Nnnnnnot you.

 

Not talking to you.

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, 4thBro a dit :

Not talking to you.

Ho right, because you can't contribute to the topic.
 

il y a 23 minutes, dwqrf a dit :

I obviously doubt you'll answer this time.

Logic wins again.

[4thBro]

Every time i show up, you try so hard to dominate the conversation and divert all attention. You don't even LET me speak, while sitting there saying that I don't contribute. Never even mind that I probably have at least 2x the amount of characters typed in this thread compared to you.

 

You legitimately seem afraid of me. And every ounce of your effort is put into trying to diminish me.

 

It's sad and embarrassing.

Just look at your posts, lol. You're trying SO HARD to overpower me by shouting nonsense as loudly as you can. Banging pots and pans together, doing everything in your power to make sure nobody can hear me.

[dwqrf]

à l’instant, 4thBro a dit :

Every time i show up, you try so hard to dominate the conversation and divert all attention. You don't even LET me speak, while sitting there saying that I don't contribute. Never even mind that I probably have at least 2x the amount of characters typed in this thread compared to you.

 

You legitimately seem afraid of me. And every ounce of your effort is put into trying to diminish me.

 

It's sad and embarrassing.

Just look at your posts, lol. You're trying SO HARD to overpower me by shouting nonsense as loudly as you can. Banging pots and pans together, doing everything in your power to make sure nobody can hear me.

I just asked you a question. You post another book with... nothing in it.

I said you don't contribute to the topic... then you proceed to make two shallow responses which aren't contributing to the topic. Are you really that dense ?


 

[TeaHands]

KISS!!!!

JUST KISS ALREADY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!

KIIIIIIISSSSSSSS!!!!!

[dwqrf]

il y a 3 minutes, TeaHands a dit :

KISS!!!!

This gremlin ? I wouldn't touch it with a stick.

It's like the child of Joffrey and Karen. We don't have words to define it yet.

Edited August 22 by dwqrf

[dwqrf]

il y a 35 minutes, 4thBro a dit :

You don't even LET me speak, while sitting there saying that I don't contribute.

Banging pots and pans together, doing everything in your power to make sure nobody can hear me.

Where speech ? Am I able to control your keyboard and actively stop you from posting any relevant feedback on what the endgame should be about ? How am I doing this ? Is this telekinesy or some form of mind control ? I can make sounds on the forums with my written words to stop people from reading what you say ! Wow, I'm indeed scared... of myself ! I'm too powerful.

Joke aside ; here is the whole topic for you. Go ahead. Contribute. We are all impatient to read your input now. Just waiting for it, if it ever comes...

[4thBro]

34 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I just asked you a question

 

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

Myself, I've asked you many time to give us your proposal for an endgame which you claim is missing... and well, you never answered

Is this the question I'm being asked?????

 

I don't need to have a perfect idea for an endgame in order for my request for an endgame to be valid.

Your stance is a fallacy, and I've already explained it. Which you brush off and ignore, because you've sincerely never learned the importance of avoiding the use of fallacies. (And to make matters worse, certain political figures even teach our youth that using fallacies is a good thing!)

 

What you're asking for is the nirvana fallacy. I'll give you another example:

"We are overweight. We should try to figure out how to lose weight."

"Oh yeah? Well, what's the best way to lose weight?"

"I don't know."

"Then why should we try? You've contributed nothing. We shouldn't try to lose weight until we know the best way to do it."

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, 4thBro a dit :

-snip-

I'm sorry, this does not contribute to the topic about what the endgame could or should be. Please try again.

[4thBro]

2 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I'm sorry, this does not contribute to the topic about what the endgame could or should be. Please try again.

It contributes to the topic "Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is." You did not make this thread. You do not dictate what the topic is.

 

And even still, I HAVE expressed many times what the endgame should be about. You just don't remember, because, instead of reading it, you scour all my posts for cherry picked segments to quote and mock.

You have, quite literally, no idea what I've even said in this entire thread so far.

[dwqrf]

il y a 5 minutes, 4thBro a dit :

-snip-

I'm sorry, this does not contribute to the topic about what the endgame could or should be. Please try again.

[4thBro]

11 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I'm sorry, this does not contribute to the topic about what the endgame could or should be. Please try again.

I'm sorry, this does not contribute to the topic of who you think makes the best cheeseburger. Please try again.

Edited August 22 by 4thBro