'Lesser plane' || A Limbo rework concept

[BalBalPrime]

I'm sure Limbo's problems don't need much introduction, especially when playing in a group. His reputation precedes himself. As such, I have a concept on a Limbo rework that will allow him to ×maintain his effectiveness in solo, while staying equally and potentially more effective in a group.

Goals of this rework concept:

• Remove the need for allies to play around Limbo (and the frustration that would follow)
• Solidify Limbo as a valuable support warframe
• Simplify some abilities to make them easier to learn and master
• Maintain Limbo's theme of 'Master of the rift' and the coolness factor

I encourage you to ⚠️PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THING⚠️ before commenting. some changes in this concept WILL seem terrible without the proper context.

 

|| RIFT MECHANICS ||

before looking at the passive, I believe it's best to look at the changes to the rift in this rework.

The rift is now considered a lesser plane from the material world (AKA world of dust) this means that entities in the world of dust can damage entities in the rift, but entities trapped in the rift cannot. This extends to enemies AND allies.

You might be wondering why allies would bother moving to this version of the rift anymore. that will be answered in a bit.

 

 

|| PASSIVE ||

Before: Limbo can dash to step into the rift. Allies will regenerate 5 energy/s while in the rift. Enemies killed in the rift grant 10 energy to limbo even if he is not in the rift.

After: Limbo can dash to step into the rift. While in the rift, ALL allies will regenerate 5 energy/s, while gaining 10 energy AND 20% shields per enemy killed in the rift.

This will be one reason why allies would want to stay in the rift. killing enemies in the rift will enable shield-gate and shield-tank users to survive inside the rift even with enemies damaging them inside the world of dust. but more reasons will follow shortly.

 

 

|| 1ST ABILITY: BANISH ||

Banish remains mostly unchanged, with the exception that Allies cannot be banished by default to prevent trolling opportunities that the new rift mechanics would cause. Banishing allies will instead be moved to its augment, 'rift haven'.

Before: Allies that are banished into the rift restore 20% health per second.

After: Allies can now be banished into the rift. Allies in the rift gain 20% health per second and share 100% of energy gained with Limbo and other rift-bound allies. Allies that manually dash out of the rift cannot be banished again for 30 seconds.

This augment change will be another reason why allies would want to stay in the rift, as the energy sharing will mean that the energy gained from killing enemies in the rift would be exponentially better the more squadmates are in the rift. this has the opportunity to easily rival nourish and arcane energize, given a decently coordinated team.

the cooldown on the augment is purely to make it harder for intentionally bad limbos to troll their squad.

 

 

|| 2ND ABILITY: STASIS ||

The core function of stasis remains unchanged, freezing any rift-bound enemies and projectiles like before, with the exception of nullifiers and enemies with overguard. however, enemies are also silenced while they are under stasis, preventing the use of eximus abilities.

(let's be honest. right now Limbo is a pain to use against eximus without subsuming silence.)

 

 

|| 3RD ABILITY: RIFT SURGE  >> RIFT CASCADE ||

The name of the ability is changed for a reason. Currently rift surge is an unnessecarily confusing mess, and nearly useless without its augment.

(And no. You should not be required to have 300 IQ to use a warframe. Sue me!)

Because of this, I propose the new rift cascade ability to be a simpler, more effective rift surge, and implementing its augment into its base kit:

• Inflict rift-bound enemies with a Rift Cascade. Cascaded enemies that die OR leave the rift will banish nearby enemies AND inflict them with Rift Cascade for the remaining duration.
• Each cascaded enemy grants bonus weapon damage to ALL allies in the rift.

This will retain the original purpose of Rift Surge - that being bringing more enemies into the rift without leaving the rift - without being overly confusing. it will also result in a Cascading (eh?) damage bonus for rift-bound allies until the ability needs to be refreshed, Serving as yet another reason for allies staying in the rift.

I'm not sure what the augment would do now that it's been integrated into the base ability, to be honest.

 

 

|| 4TH ABILITY: CATACALYSM >> REUNION ||

With the new rift mechanics, stasis, and the new rift cascade ability, a problem presents itself. Enemies can quickly get stuck in stasis farther and farther away from the initial target, and by extension, the squad, making it a frustration to chase these enemies which only causes the problem to cascade (eh???) even more out of control. Besides, with this new kit, Catacalysm's function becomes redundant.

My solution to this problem is to replace catacalysm (I know. please lower your pitchforks.) with "Reunion", an ability that teleports ALL rift-bound enemies into a single cluster on Limbo's cursor. This has no range limit. if an enemy is rift-bound, they'll get teleported.

 

 

|| CONCLUSION ||

DE if by any miniscule chance you're reading this, you're free to use any of these concepts in whatever way you want. just please im begging you to rework limbo he's so cool but so outdated please please please-

[matt11mz]

I have a slightly different take. Not to argue against yours, I like it too, but I'll use your format to throw my fancy Limbo hat into the ring:

My goals:

• Keep the rift identity while being more flexible with the isolation.
• Streamline some personal issues with Limbo's kit that I often see other people mention.
• Remove redundant or irrelevant features of his kit.
• Give him bonuses to Nullifiers and Eximi.
• Keep the learning curve while removing the punishment from having or being a bad/beginner Limbo.

 

|| Rift Plane ||

The Rift gets a new function, Rift Tear. A Rift Tear is a zone where anyone gets the effect of being rift-bound, but damages, and is vulnerable to either side. This state is known as Rift-Torn. This gives you room to kill without needing to match planes all the time. A Rift Torn entity can still be banished as normal.

Enemies who cannot be Rift-Affected take 2x damage from Banish, Rift Surge, and Cataclysm.

 

|| Passive ||

Limbo can still dash into the Rift, but leaves behind a Rift Tear. Limbo is unaffected by this Tear, giving more control of mobility (No more accidental dodging out of the Rift). Enemies and allies can enter the zone to be Rift-Torn. Allies can dodge to be Rift-Bound like entering the old portal, while enemies staggered, knocked down, or ragdolled in the tear also become Rift-Bound.

Rift-Bound or Rift-Torn enemies give 5 energy if Limbo isn't in the Rift, but he gets the full 10 while inside the Rift (Bound or Torn). Allies get 5 energy from this if Rift-Torn, and 10 if Rift-Bound. All Rift Bound allies (including Limbo) get 5 energy per second and 2.5 energy/s if Rift Torn.

 

|| Banish ||

For allies: Banish now makes them Rift-Torn. Completely inverted from a troll to a buff.

For enemies: Now does magnetic damage and impact damage. Rift-Torn enemies always count as in Limbo's plane for Banish.

For hold cast: Now self-banishes to give Rift-Torn state. This lets Rift Haven work on Limbo.

Rift-Torn enemies can be banished for half-cost, Rift-Bound allies (including Limbo) can also be banished for half cost.

 

|| Stasis ||

Stasis now Silences enemies. Like you stated, Silence is a bit too necessary for Limbo. Notably, silenced nullifiers, if they didn't already work this way, cannot recast their nullifier drone.

Stasis affects Rift-Torn enemies and also enemy projectiles. Stasis projectiles are now flagged as allied projectiles, meaning all enemy projectiles belong to Limbo. Beam attacks don't get frozen, nor do AoE explosions. Attacks from enemies who cannot be rift-bound, and abilities also work as normal, and cannot be put in stasis.

 

Stasis gets a new augment: Strategic Stasis

Limbo's Projectiles also get frozen, dealing bonus damage when stasis is deactivated or expired. Rift-Bound allies share this ability.

 

|| Rift Surge ||

Now makes banished enemies Rift-Torn, and Rift-Torn enemies Rift-Bound. Slain enemies now create a Rift Tear like his passive. Rift-Bound enemies create small magnetic bursts around them. Surged projectiles, including from Strategic Stasis, deal extra magnetic damage.

The new Rift-Torn duration is the same amount as banish, but not a refresh. Extra remaining banish duration boosts surge damage.

Hold Cast to center the surge on a rift-affected entity. Allies get 50% of the energy cost, while enemies take 2x damage from the burst.

 

This is to give Limbo a more DPS-centered role, if one is desired. Still distinct enough from Cataclysm that one or the other can be safely subsumed.

 

|| Cataclysm ||

Now has an outer radius of 1 meter of Rift Tear. This zone ragdolls enemies into the cataclysm, with small zones effectively juggling enemies. Enemies in Stasis get a gentle pull toward the cataclysm, or push if already inside. The tear works like a vortex to keep things in the cataclysm.

Attacking from the inside, it works as a fully Rift-Bound zone, but projectiles fire out become Rift-Torn. Melee, AoE and enemy beams functions off of the attacker's state, while ally beams are Rift-Torn. If there is coding to segment the beams, they would instead work off of where that segment is. AoE could possibly use Falloff to determine state.

Attacking from outside damages cataclysm, which has infinite health. Damage done is converted into blast shockwaves that pulse inward, damaging all enemies inside regardless of who hit it. Melee does nothing, with exception to melee projectile attacks like gunblades or glaives. Shockwaves convert all status procs to blast procs. AoE, Punch Through, and Status Spreading function as normal.

Cataclysm deals a mix of slash and magnetic on forming (a literal tear in reality), and a mix of blast and magnetic in detonation.

Nullification now interacts differently. Nullification pulses now create a tear of an inverted cataclysm that shares base decay speed, but speed increases with ability duration, mending the hole quicker. Nullifier Bubbles are a counter zone, putting enemies into the physical plane. If either zone overtakes the Cataclysm's size, it detonates like normal. Both have a 0.5 meter Tear Ring that does Slash damage to anyone on contact, friend or foe alike. This ring scales off of enemy damage stats, not Cataclysm or Limbo's strength. 

 

This gives Cataclysm good DPS potential, while allowing for that full Area Denial playstyle that ignores damage, with full AoE offsettting any damage loss from low strength, while making full defense still useful, and making nullifiers a bit more reasonable while still threatening.

 

Cataclysmic Continuum gets a rework:

Cataclysm is now permanent and doesn't initially shrink, but the Rift Tear creeps inward, overtaking the Cataclysm. Kills in the Cataclysm pushes the Tear back, and a fully overtaken Cataclysm begins to shrink. Kills at maximum size increase the radius of Cataclysm. The Rift Tear only moves enemies 1 meter from the main Cataclysm zone, and shockwaves do less damage the more of the Tear there is (minimum 1 meter tear doesn't affect damage). Removing a fully overtaken cataclysm does not create an explosion, even if recast.

 

|| Conclusion ||

I want him to stay the technical powerhouse that laughs at useless enemies after learning all his intricacies, but there's a lot of micro-managing that can get a bit tedious, so I wanted to give him more complicated abilities that are generally idiot-proof, but have great functionality that reward smart plays.