Dev Workshop: Koumei & the Five Fates - Caliban + Nova Rework

[UlyssesTheDM]

13 minutes ago, Destroyahx87 said:

With these changes, he'll be a caster/summoner. The summons aren't just mindless bullet sponges, they'll synergize with his kit for added benefits and interactions.

 

His new philosophy is that he'll be constantly switching between sentient types for the best outcome of a situation, while using his other abilities for survivability, damage, and energy sustain.

Yeah, probably a summoner frame, not really a caster frame though, more of an area-denial frame.

[vvvLEYvvv]

Great adjustment for frames.

Please adjust Volt's Speed ability too, ex. tap for self buff and hold for area/team buff.

That would reduce unintentional hinder squad mate game play.

[Destroyahx87]

6 minutes ago, UlyssesTheDM said:

Yeah, probably a summoner frame, not really a caster frame though, more of an area-denial frame.

Yeah, I'd say summoner more than caster. You could still build him for weapons platform too, I think he'll just have more build variety overall, which is good. 

[Void2258]

Plz don't put the conclave console opposite the relic console. That corner is heavily used in orbiter decorations. Conclave doesn't need a console; it's too unplayed to bother having a dedicated spot for it. Just shove it in the bottom left corner of the syndicate console where everyone can ignore it as they do with the current console. Or just remove conclave entirely; almost no one would notice.

[Rexis12]

39 minutes ago, Destroyahx87 said:

His new philosophy is that he'll be constantly switching between sentient types for the best outcome of a situation, while using his other abilities for survivability, damage, and energy sustain. That puts him in the category of a caster

You could even say, he'll be adapting to the situation with his summons.

Edited 7 hours ago by Rexis12

[sXeth]

13 hours ago, (PSN)Grand_Sheba said:

Actually, Caliban’s decays 2% every second after 5 seconds of not receiving that damage type. DOT do not count towards this passives trigger.

Where as Adaptation maintaints its 90% without diminishing for 20s. Anytime you're hit again within the 20s windows your 90% is refreshed. If you're on fire or any other DOT effect is on you, your Adaptation constantly refreshes while under the DOT effect.

 

This means that Caliban’s has a very small window with a far lower reward for being hit. So Adaptation last far longer or more reliably for survival making Caliban’s passive obsolete and irrelevant to warframes.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1414319-caliban’s-passive/#comment-13124865

Yeah, so to lose Calibans completely you have to spend 30 seconds total without taking the damage type. With a 5 second grace window where no decay occurs at all.

You lose your entire Adaptation stack at 20s (if the mod is max rank, economic builders often run it lower). 

I’m not batting for the “its OP team” here but there are various advantages to it (also being team wide) that do keep it as a very nice passive. The general argument against it is like saying Arcane Guardian exists so Atlas, Frost and Grendels passives are useless 

[sXeth]

2 hours ago, GreenWolf97 said:

"Previously, the damage field left behind is what enabled Armor Stripping, which felt awkward if enemies left before it could apply. Now, it applies when the Beam hits an enemy, making it much easier to work with."

I don't understand this part... it was instantly applied to all enemies which entered in the field... the Acolyte who literally spawned without shield and armor and you could put down 3 of this field... now you have to spam on everything. How is this "much easier to work"?!

The best defense strip ability in the game... his Fusion Strike literally got nerfed and this line of the dev workshop is kinda strange since you never had to wait for the defense strip to apply.

It makes me wonder... 🤔

Yeah I got no clue what that was about. Like a Mag would have to yank the enemy to a spot 30m away in between the laser and the explosion/circle forming.

[sXeth]

2 hours ago, UlyssesTheDM said:

Heyyyy, wait a minute. That happened! 😲 

I definitely see where you are coming from. You were using Caliban's 4 as armor-strip area denial before, and from what I have read and what Pablo was saying it does sound like they got rid of it which is sad. I feel like the field of armor strip adds utility to the ability, and there is no point in taking it away.

it’s been a weird trend with the big reworks to “unpopular” frames that they semi dismissively lose whatever their standout feature before was.

Grendel got his feast capped. Hydroid lost invulnerability/gathering/damage linking. Inaros lost his defence objective healing (and team healing). Grendel and Inaros at least seemed to generally come out actively better forit by upgrades to the rest of their stuff.

Edited 6 hours ago by sXeth

[sXeth]

2 hours ago, UlyssesTheDM said:

Take it back!

You are right in regards to the exalted weapon, but Excal has Slash Dash which beats out Baruuk instantly with a Ceramic Dagger.

Then he’s just a worse Atlas 😁 (more issues with LoS, unwanted extra dashing at times. Drastically less tanky in his in between dash vulnerability. No loot augment. Much harder to hit hard targets multiple times quickly.)

Also my biggest thing with Slash Dash where the Ex Blade is basically thrown aside (or incredibly suboptimal to use)

[vFlitz]

If it was up to me, for a frame that has seen as little public appeal as Caliban, I'd try to swing for the fences with something cool.

The sentient units we typically see are just fragments of greater sentients. So if they're fragments.. why not give Caliban the ability to combine with them?

Give him a Conculyst, Ortholyst and Summulyst passively by default, like Venari. His 3 is now used to combine with a chosen sentient, empowering both Caliban and the remaining summons. While in this state, dealing damage to enemies affected by Tau status restores your shields. Some example ideas:

• Fused with Conculyst: Razor Gyre gains additional Slash damage, increased duration and free movement. Ortholyst deals increased damage. Choralysts can use Conculyst tornado ability
• Fused with Ortholyst: Sentient Wrath creates a Tau field under lifted enemies, gradually damaging them and applying more Tau Stacks. Conculyst applies Tau and damage vulnerability with its attacks. Choralysts slowly inflict Tau on enemies in their range
• Fused with Summulyst: Fusion Strike pulls enemies to the beam convergence point and leaves armor strip fields again! Conculyst and Ortholyst strip armor with their attacks.

Obviously none of this could happen on such short notice or probably ever, but eh. A man can dream.

[Rinastina]

19 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

If it was up to me, for a frame that has seen as little public appeal as Caliban, I'd try to swing for the fences with something cool.

The sentient units we typically see are just fragments of greater sentients. So if they're fragments.. why not give Caliban the ability to combine with them?

Give him a Conculyst, Ortholyst and Summulyst passively by default, like Venari. His 3 is now used to combine with a chosen sentient, empowering both Caliban and the remaining summons. While in this state, dealing damage to enemies affected by Tau status restores your shields. Some example ideas:

• Fused with Conculyst: Razor Gyre gains additional Slash damage, increased duration and free movement. Ortholyst deals increased damage. Choralysts can use Conculyst tornado ability
• Fused with Ortholyst: Sentient Wrath creates a Tau field under lifted enemies, gradually damaging them and applying more Tau Stacks. Conculyst applies Tau and damage vulnerability with its attacks. Choralysts slowly inflict Tau on enemies in their range
• Fused with Summulyst: Fusion Strike pulls enemies to the beam convergence point and leaves armor strip fields again! Conculyst and Ortholyst strip armor with their attacks.

Obviously none of this could happen on such short notice or probably ever, but eh. A man can dream.

A simpler middle ground would be changing the ability to choose which of the three to NOT summon.

Like, each summon gives you a buff: Conculyst=Melee damage buff, Ortholyst=Apply Tau status with ranged weapons, Summolyst=Shield regen. You pick which of them to "merge" with and you summon the other two types(Conculysts/Ortholysts are summoned in pairs, Summolyst is summoned alone so you always get 3-4 bodies).

But yeah, it's a bit too late to make wishlists for the rework since it's probably already finalized. Best we can do is cry very loudly for them to revert the strip field removal. Maybe they'll listen and get some ideas for augments, as long as those augments don't just restore the old functionality.

Edited 5 hours ago by Rinastina

[Rhagius]

15 hours ago, Eclipse2024Qc said:

Really!  Thank you for destroying my favorite warframe.  I have never spammed since the beginning.  It's the fault of others who only use spam, slam, slam, slam, slam. I've already encountered it 2 or three times.   What am I going to do to get out of walking cloud when I'm in front of the hacking thing during the spy mission!?
 

What are you even talking about? nothing changes for the situation you described here. light slam or heavy slam still work to get out of cloud walker, you just can't instantly reenter during the slam animation.

[Eclipse2024Qc]

il y a 4 minutes, Rhagius a dit :

What are you even talking about? nothing changes for the situation you described here. light slam or heavy slam still work to get out of cloud walker, you just can't instantly reenter during the slam animation.

I'm talking about my favorite warframe : Wukong. In my nature, I never spam.  the cloudwalk is very useful for spy mission and for any mission.  I either use it for racing or use it to pass through lasers.  But if they remove the melee animation, what do I do to get out of cloudwalk when I'm in front to hack.  (I NEVER use emotes, because for me it takes a long time).

Edited 4 hours ago by Eclipse2024Qc

[Rhagius]

1 minute ago, Eclipse2024Qc said:

I'm talking about my favorite warframe : Wukong. In my nature, I never spam.  the cloudwalk is very useful for spy mission and for any mission.  I either use it for racing or use it to pass through lasers.  But if they remove the melee animation, what do I do to get out of cloudwalk when I'm in front to hack.  (I NEVER use emotes, because for me it takes a long time).

you can still do that, you seem to have misunderstood what the changes are.

[vFlitz]

1 minute ago, Eclipse2024Qc said:

I'm talking about my favorite warframe : Wukong. In my nature, I never spam.  the cloudwalk is very useful for spy mission and for any mission.  I either use it for racing or use it to pass through lasers.  But if they remove the melee animation, what do I do to get out of cloudwalk when I'm in front to hack.  (I NEVER use emotes, because for me it takes a long time).

You can do a non-slam melee swing, shoot a gun, or just press 2 again to end cloudwalker. All of that can end the ability early... how do you not know this if Wukong is your favorite is beyond me.

[Eclipse2024Qc]

il y a 4 minutes, Rhagius a dit :

you can still do that, you seem to have misunderstood what the changes are.

This is what I really wanted to test when the update release.  If I see that the melee is not completely removed, but half, that is to say the slam no longer exists during the cloudwalk and only the normal melee is ok.  I can be happy.  Right now I'm still angry because I'm worried about my favorite warframe.

Edited 4 hours ago by Eclipse2024Qc

[Rhagius]

Just now, Eclipse2024Qc said:

This is what I really wanted to test when the update comes out.  If I see that the melee is not completely removed, but half, that is to say the slam no longer exists during the cloudwalk and only the normal melee is ok.  I can be happy.  Right now I'm still angry because I'm worried about my favorite warframe.

the only thing removed is the recasting of cloud walker while still in the slam animation. you can still do exactly the same things as before with cloud walker unless you want to slam-spam\

[Destroyahx87]

2 minutes ago, Eclipse2024Qc said:

This is what I really wanted to test when the update comes out.  If I see that the melee is not completely removed, but half, that is to say the slam no longer exists during the cloudwalk and only the normal melee is ok.  I can be happy.  Right now I'm still angry because I'm worried about my favorite warframe.

Again, you can just tap the ability again to end it early. What are you possibly worried about? I'm confused here. This isn't even a massive nerf, they just took one mechanic out that almost nobody uses. 

[Eclipse2024Qc]

il y a 1 minute, Destroyahx87 a dit :

Again, you can just tap the ability again to end it early. What are you possibly worried about? I'm confused here. This isn't even a massive nerf, they just took one mechanic out that almost nobody uses. 

You talking about slam animation ?

il y a 2 minutes, Rhagius a dit :

the only thing removed is the recasting of cloud walker while still in the slam animation. you can still do exactly the same things as before with cloud walker unless you want to slam-spam\

I can thank you for giving me more information regarding the animation of my Wukong.  I can gradually feel better.  if you say it only removes the slam animation that people spam all the time.  It's been months since I remember seeing a video that the person spams his attack with heavy attacks (slam), but I will test on ability 2 of my Wukong to be sure.

[Rinastina]

9 minutes ago, Eclipse2024Qc said:

if you say it only removes the slam animation

It doesn't remove slam animation or anything like that. It just makes you wait for the slam to FINISH before you can cloudwalk.

[Eclipse2024Qc]

il y a 8 minutes, Rinastina a dit :

It doesn't remove slam animation or anything like that. It just makes you wait for the slam to FINISH before you can cloudwalk.

This means that it will only affect the slam animation before using the cloudwalk again.

[MerlintheAgeless]

16 hours ago, Eclipse2024Qc said:

Really!  Thank you for destroying my favorite warframe.  I have never spammed since the beginning.  It's the fault of others who only use spam, slam, slam, slam, slam. I've already encountered it 2 or three times.   What am I going to do to get out of walking cloud when I'm in front of the hacking thing during the spy mission!?
 

Did you actually read the changes? All they're removing is the ability to recast Cloud Walker during the slam animation. You will still be able to slam out of Cloud Walker. And if you're specifically worried about Spy, you have to wait out the Slam animation to begin Hacking anyways. You won't notice the change.

[Eclipse2024Qc]

il y a 10 minutes, MerlintheAgeless a dit :

Did you actually read the changes? All they're removing is the ability to recast Cloud Walker during the slam animation. You will still be able to slam out of Cloud Walker. And if you're specifically worried about Spy, you have to wait out the Slam animation to begin Hacking anyways. You won't notice the change.

I just misread or didn't understand the message DE said.  Now we know that it can change to avoid spamming the slam

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

4 hours ago, sXeth said:

Yeah, so to lose Calibans completely you have to spend 30 seconds total without taking the damage type. With a 5 second grace window where no decay occurs at all.

You lose your entire Adaptation stack at 20s (if the mod is max rank, economic builders often run it lower). 

I’m not batting for the “its OP team” here but there are various advantages to it (also being team wide) that do keep it as a very nice passive. The general argument against it is like saying Arcane Guardian exists so Atlas, Frost and Grendels passives are useless 

Wrong. Let’s break down why Caliban’s passive, Adaptive Armor, is far less useful than Adaptation in both design and practical application.

 

1. Arcane Guardian vs. Armor Synergy: First off, comparing Arcane Guardian to Caliban’s passive doesn’t make sense because Arcane Guardian stacks with all armor sources. It's an additive buff to base armor, which directly scales damage reduction based on Warframe armor stats. When combined with other armor-boosting abilities like Iron Skin, Grendel's passives, or mods like Steel Fiber, it creates exponential value by enhancing base armor.

 

Caliban’s passive, on the other hand, works on a damage-type-specific resistance system, which is a completely different mechanic. While Adaptive Armor does stack with other forms of damage reduction, it does not stack with Adaptation. It doesn’t boost base armor or provide raw damage reduction across all sources, which makes its effectiveness more limited in comparison to Arcane Guardian’s synergy.

 

2. Decay and Proc Mechanics: Adaptive Armor decays by 2% per second after 5 seconds of not taking the specific damage type. It only gains 5% resistance per proc, and it procs on the highest damage type dealt to the player or ally at that moment. This means that if you're taking Impact damage at the max 50% cap, and then you get hit by Toxin damage, your resistance will swap to Toxin, and you won’t benefit from the Impact resistance 5% gain anymore until the damage priority changes via decay.

 

Furthermore, if you are hit by Toxin and it starts dealing a DoT (damage-over-time), your Adaptive Armor will decay by 2% per second, allowing the DoT to deal increasingly more damage. This rapid decay means that as the Toxin DoT progresses, the damage you take will ramp up, as you lose that 2% resistance every second during the DoT.

 

3. Adaptation vs. Adaptive Armor – Uptime Comparison:

Adaptation: Each hit you take gives you a 10% damage reduction against that specific damage type, stacking up to 90% damage reduction over time. Adaptation lasts 20 seconds without any decay, and DoTs like Slash or Toxin refresh this duration per tick. This makes Adaptation incredibly consistent, even when taking status damage from multiple damage types at once. It's rare to drop below 70-90% DR on any significant damage type with Adaptation, even in high-level missions.

 

Adaptive Armor: In a realistic mission scenario, maintaining even 20-30% resistance is difficult because of the fast decay rate and the 5% proc limit. Since it procs only on the highest damage type, other types get no resistance unless they're currently the strongest damage. Additionally, status effects like Toxin will cause Adaptive Armor to decay during their damage-over-time duration, leaving you increasingly vulnerable. This makes Adaptive Armor significantly less effective, especially against multiple damage types.

 

4. Teamwide Passive Doesn’t Help Much: The “teamwide” benefit of Adaptive Armor sounds good, but it’s not practical. For one, the 50% resistance cap for allies is lower, meaning even at max stacks, they don’t get the full benefit. Additionally, most players in Warframe are constantly moving at high speeds, making it difficult to remain in affinity range to receive the benefit consistently. Add to that the fact that Adaptation is always better for individual players, offering up to 90% DR that can stack with all other forms of damage reduction, including Warframe abilities, mods, and arcanes. This makes the teamwide benefit largely irrelevant in practice, as most players would rather run their own defensive mods like Adaptation or Vitality to ensure consistent defense.

 

Let’s Talk Numbers:

Adaptation offers 90% DR after 10 hits from a damage type, and this DR remains active for 20 seconds after taking that damage. In comparison, Adaptive Armor might get you to 50% resistance, but that starts decaying after just 5 seconds, dropping to 0% within 25 seconds without refreshing.

 

With Adaptation, you take only 10% of the damage from the strongest damage type in a mission, while Caliban’s passive leaves you taking 50-70% of the damage on average due to its quick decay and lack of status proc interaction.

 

Let’s assume you’re taking 1,000 points of Impact damage in a high-level mission:

 

Adaptation at 90% DR: You would take only 100 damage.

 

Adaptive Armor at 30% resistance (a common real-world scenario due to decay): You’re still taking 700 damage, making Adaptation 7x more effective.

 

Even if you managed to maintain Caliban’s passive at 50% resistance for a brief window, you’d still be taking 500 damage, 5x more than you would with Adaptation. The math speaks for itself.

 

Conclusion:

Adaptive Armor is simply inferior to Adaptation in both uptime and effectiveness. It’s clunky to manage, decays too fast to provide reliable defense, and doesn’t protect against status procs. The synergy between Adaptation and other damage reduction tools (like Arcane Guardian, Warframe abilities, and armor mods) makes it a clear winner in nearly every situation.

 

For Caliban’s passive to be useful, it needs to shift away from competing with Adaptation for raw damage reduction and instead offer something unique, like status resistance or immunity. Without a rework, Adaptive Armor is a cosmetic addition, offering little real-world benefit to Caliban or his allies.

[4g3nt0]

When will Revenant's Mephisto Syandana be fixed? 

Also when will Signas(signae?) have the ability to get closer to my warframes helmet and be rotated?