Anyone Else Feel The Brakk Is Game Breaking?

[SquirmyBurrito]

I'm all for another secondary to be made available with comparable style/stats. Let the Eventgoers enjoy their exclusive weapon.

 

I'd rather them just open it up to the public, there is no reason for the Brakk to remain exclusive.

 

That being said, here are a few ways to balance it -

 

- Decrease the pellet count.

- Decrease the status chance.

- Change the way its damage types are balanced without sacrificing overall damage.

- Increase the reload time.

- Decrease the fire rate.

- Increase the damage falloff over range

 

The list goes on, and any one of those suggestions could do wonders for balancing the Brakk.

 

I like balancing options:

2, 4, 5, and 6. I do not like option 1 and 3.

 

Knowing DE... They will do ALL of these things... And then some more

 

Yep... DE loves them overnerfs.

[Zyrusticae]

I'm surprised how many people in this thread are apparently perfectly okay with one weapon being straight up superior to everything else, to the point where NOT using it is essentially handicapping yourself, and there is zero reason to use any other sidearm, period. 

 

Seriously, how do you guys not see the problem with this? I don't understand it at all! 

 

its not only 100% more damage(better than every sidearm), its best in class for EVERY category you can think of.

 

-Damage blance for every race, check.

 

-$&*&*#(%& status procs, check.

 

-Awesome crit, check.

 

-Faster reload and bigger mag than every other shotgun pistol, check.

 

-No damage drop-off, check.

 

The problem is that theres no current sidearm that can beat this weapon in ANY situation.

Not only that, it's straight up superior to most primaries in the game. Most primaries.

 

If DE doesn't nerf the F*** out of this thing, something is very, very wrong. 

Edited December 5, 2013 by Zyrusticae

[SquirmyBurrito]

nerf the F*** out of this thing, something is very, very wrong. 

 

I completely disagree with this line of thought. It ALWAYS leads to DE overnerf'ing weapons to the point of it being a BURDEN to use them.

[Zyrusticae]

Better to have one underpowered weapon that nobody uses than one incredibly stupid overpowered weapon that everyone uses because using anything else is stupid. 

[lautalocos]

WAITING ON DETRON WHERE DID ALL THAT HYPE FOR IT GO?!?!?!?

it went away when we founded that it was just like a laser brakk, instead of a real handcannon. that means, slow firerate, but an assured kill with a headshot against almost, if not , everything

[ObviousLee]

I was with a group in a defence today, and all 3 of the other members where sporting a Brakk with blast elements. They simply stood at the defence point with their REDICULUS status chance and damage taking us easily to wave 40 without moving or using a single ability.

 

I'm just coming back after a few month break, I'm a player from beta with a founders package, and a few purchases of platinum, and I feel pretty cheated. Not only is this weapon among the best for damage, but it does equal damage in every catagory, making it perfect for every situation, has a nearly 100% status chance (10% per pellet x 20 pellets with a multishot mod) I mean, come on, no damage fall-off, massive status chance, massive crit, well rounded damage types, 1 second reload, more shots per mag than DUAL broncos. Theres no reason not to use it.

 

I know you had to do an event to get it, gratsto all that participated, I had a kid and quit gaming all together for a little while, so life got in the way. Hell, if I got an email saying "we are starting an event tomorrow and the reward is a game breaking pistol shotgun better than any primary or secondary in the game and this is your only chance to get it!" I probably would have paid a babysitter for a couple days.

 

Thats just my 2 cents, and I dont feel like things like this should be released as one time event rewards. I've played many an MMO in my days, and similar events usually reward cosmetic things that cant ever be obtained, which is fair. But when I'm seeing an unranked mag frame stun locking and killing groups of 50+ mobs from 50 yards away with a free no longer obtainable pistol, its safe to say I regret every dollar I've spent on this game, beause its obviously going in the wrong direction.

i find it interesting you claim to be a founder, yet i see no founders badge. i see no founder title. i see an account that was created yesterday.

 

either you forgot your original login information and made a new account (woulda helped to announce this were it the case) and you simply need to communicate with DE about getting that account back, OR, you are a newbie who just signed up yesterday and saw some folks wit dat dope azz geah. im leaning towards maybe the first one, as you dont talk like someone who just started.

 

however, it bothers me to no end how these forums go weeks or even sometimes as long as a month without a nerf thread about an event weapon, the brakk in particular, and then one person makes a post thinking something might be op, and the bandwagoneers come out. please, if you are going to suggest a nerf, or even a buff, provide mathematical reasoning, comparisons, and a logical fix. constantly screaming nerf this, or nerf that doesn't solve anything. i look foreward to your proposed fix.

[__Kanade__]

I wanted the Detron, Brakk looks stupid, still waiting for the Detron, even though I wanted the Detron, I still couldn't find the time to do 100 missions, only did 50.

 

I want my Detron.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Better to have one underpowered weapon that nobody uses than one incredibly stupid overpowered weapon that everyone uses because using anything else is stupid. 

 

I completely disagree. At least with that one OP weapon ALL weapons are usable. Nerfing it into the ground means that it is worthless. As I said before, the Brakk's existence doesn't change how much damage your weapons are doing. It just makes them look worse IN COMPARISON. Nerfing the Brakk does nothing but make the other weapons look nicer in a lineup. 

 

Your idea is terrible. Nerfing something to make other things LOOK better is never the solution. If there is truly something wrong with the other weapons that make them worthless (not just in comparison to the Brakk) then they should be BUFFED. If they aren't actually worthless your argument goes out the window and we get into a different discussion. 

 

To take the face away:

Let's say we have 10 X's, of those X's all 10 are valid but 1 is [WORD INDICATING SUPERIORITY I.E- FASTER, STRONGER, ETC] than the others. Using your method we take those 10 perfectly valid X's and remove one of them from validity. Now we are left with 9 valid X's, and one invalid X.

 

Swap the 'X' with things like car, restaurants, etc. 

Edited December 5, 2013 by SquirmyBurrito

[Robsbot]

Why should event rewards be better than anything else and exclusive? I still have never heard a valid line of thinking for this argument. Because you weren't busy that weekend? Because you don't have a job that forces you to be on call? Most of the weapons that are event exclusive don't even require skill to get. You simply do X number of some repetitive task and it spits it out like a cash machine. Why should nobody else be able to perform repetitive task Y X number of times and get reward Z? 

 

Why should they be better? That skews game balance towards a select few who were able to participate in the event, were aware of the event, and played Warframe during that time frame. Why should new, enthusiastic players not be allowed to obtain these weapons? Balance is key in multiplayer games. Anything you can do mechanics wise I should be able to do. Handing out skins for events is fine but there is a fundamental flaw in handing out exclusive never to be seen again weapons in events.

[Detheroc]

WAITING ON DETRON WHERE DID ALL THAT HYPE FOR IT GO?!?!?!?

I tell you... the stats of it suck... its a shotgun with travel time and 105 radiation damage.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Why should event rewards be better than anything else and exclusive? I still have never heard a valid line of thinking for this argument. Because you weren't busy that weekend? Because you don't have a job that forces you to be on call? Most of the weapons that are event exclusive don't even require skill to get. You simply do X number of some repetitive task and it spits it out like a cash machine. Why should nobody else be able to perform repetitive task Y X number of times and get reward Z? 

 

Why should they be better? That skews game balance towards a select few who were able to participate in the event, were aware of the event, and played Warframe during that time frame. Why should new, enthusiastic players not be allowed to obtain these weapons? Balance is key in multiplayer games. Anything you can do mechanics wise I should be able to do. Handing out skins for events is fine but there is a fundamental flaw in handing out exclusive never to be seen again weapons in events.

 

You're wrongly assuming that being able to complete the tasks required for the exclusives (the event missions) is indicative of not being as busy as others. Did it ever occur to you that maybe others are just better at managing their time than those who failed to completely the requirements? Especially in the Brakk's case given the ~6 days the event was live.

 

Don't bring up skill, it is subjective and usually just a sign of someone attempting to downplay the effort that others put in to any given task.

 

Why shouldn't they? The Brakk took more work than the average time it takes to obtain ANY other weapon barring some extreme RNG shenanigans.

 

Technically gear strength balance between players doesn't matter all that much in a Co-Op focused game. YES, keeping things equal across the board generally improves player mood. I'm not disputing that. But whether or not a peer can kill an enemy in less shots than you does little more than make the game easier for you (when grouped with them).

 

If a weapon is exclusive, and is marketed as such, it shouldn't be changed afterwards. This poisons the playerbase's perception of the Devs and often makes them feel as though someone just spit in their face. Think of the Frost Prime event backlash.

 

Handing out skins is okay... but it always comes with the fact that some people will NOT like it, and since it has no stats associated with it there is no reason for them to even try it. 

 

There is nothing wrong with handing out exclusive non-skin content for events. I have yet to see a valid reason against exclusives that didn't revolve around jealously. I DO agree that exclusives shouldn't be massively better than their non-exclusive counterparts, but I don't agree that they should just be reskins of non-exclusives.

[Cranial_Enigma]

I would be happy if they made the Brakk have a high proc chance, low crit chance and low pellet count while the bronco series had a high crit chance and high pellets but low proc chance so there would be reasons to switch between the bronco series compared to the brakk, but as of now the brakk does everything the bronco series can do and does it better. (except impact damage, the bronco series wins on that)

 

Brakk stats:

Critical: 15% chance to do 2 times damage

Status: 10% chance

 

All bronco weapons:

Critical: 2.5% chance to do 2 times damage (except bronco prime which only does 1.5 times damage WHY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?)

Status: dual bronco/bronco have 2.0 chance and the bronco prime is 2.5% which is pretty bad

 

I just want the other variant to be viable instead of having one weapons that completely outshines other weapons of its category.

[TenkoTenko]

Why should event rewards be better than anything else and exclusive?

Probably because of that sense of entitlement for participating in an event and that apparently no one would do an event if it didn't give out OP equipment

 

I don't really care either way, I use what I find is fun and I love my Brakk.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I would be happy if they made the Brakk have a high proc chance, low crit chance and low pellet count while the bronco series had a high crit chance and high pellets but low proc chance so there would be reasons to switch between the bronco series compared to the brakk, but as of now the brakk does everything the bronco series can do and does it better. (except impact damage, the bronco series wins on that)

 

Brakk stats:

Critical: 15% chance to do 2 times damage

Status: 10% chance

 

All bronco weapons:

Critical: 2.5% chance to do 2 times damage (except bronco prime which only does 1.5 times damage WHY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?)

Status: dual bronco/bronco have 2.0 chance and the bronco prime is 2.5% which is pretty bad

 

I just want the other variant to be viable instead of having one weapons that completely outshines other weapons of its category.

 

...so nerf the Brakk and buff the Broncos.

 

Probably because of that sense of entitlement for participating in an event and that apparently no one would do an event if it didn't give out OP equipment

 

I don't really care either way, I use what I find is fun and I love my Brakk.

 

No, it doesn't have to be OP. Just WORTH the effort/time that gets put into obtaining them. If an average prime takes 3-50(way over the top high-end estimate) runs and exclusive weapon X takes 100 runs, is it wrong to ask that it be better than the weapon you could potentially obtain in just 3 runs?

[Cranial_Enigma]

...so nerf the Brakk and buff the Broncos.

 

 

Sadly yes, the Brakk is just too good compared to the Broncos, and attempting to bring the Broncos up to the Brakks level would break it compared to other side arms, if there was a better way around getting other weapons to fill in specific roles or have certain niches then I would recommend that instead of nerfing a weapon since nerfing is a pretty bad way to balance in a PvE specific game.

 

With the Brakk's small spread, balanced weapon damage, a really good critical chance/damage and a good proc chance, why would you want to use any other weapon when this one is great all around?

[SquirmyBurrito]

Sadly yes, the Brakk is just too good compared to the Broncos, and attempting to bring the Broncos up to the Brakks level would break it compared to other side arms, if there was a better way around getting other weapons to fill in specific roles or have certain niches then I would recommend that instead of nerfing a weapon since nerfing is a pretty bad way to balance in a PvE specific game.

 

With the Brakk's small spread, balanced weapon damage, a really good critical chance/damage and a good proc chance, why would you want to use any other weapon when this one is great all around?

 

Or... instead of nerfing the Brakk into the ground you could simply balance it. Decrease its proc chance and/or crit chance, lengthen its reload time. Increase the Bronco's pellet count, whatever.

[Cranial_Enigma]

Or... instead of nerfing the Brakk into the ground you could simply balance it. Decrease its proc chance and/or crit chance, lengthen its reload time. Increase the Bronco's pellet count, whatever.

 

Now you're just putting word in my mouth, I would rather see the Brakk get a slight nerf to balance it then nerf it into the ground, seeing weapons getting hit horribly by the nerf hammer into the ground is a sad sight to watch.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Now you're just putting word in my mouth, I would rather see the Brakk get a slight nerf to balance it then nerf it into the ground, seeing weapons getting hit horribly by the nerf hammer into the ground is a sad sight to watch.

 

Aren't you the one who suggested they give the Brakk a high proc chance yet low crit chance and low pellet count? AKA nerf it into the ground. Quoted you below

 

I would be happy if they made the Brakk have a high proc chance, low crit chance and low pellet count while the bronco series had a high crit chance and high pellets but low proc chance so there would be reasons to switch between the bronco series compared to the brakk, but as of now the brakk does everything the bronco series can do and does it better. (except impact damage, the bronco series wins on that)

 

Brakk stats:

Critical: 15% chance to do 2 times damage

Status: 10% chance

 

All bronco weapons:

Critical: 2.5% chance to do 2 times damage (except bronco prime which only does 1.5 times damage WHY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?)

Status: dual bronco/bronco have 2.0 chance and the bronco prime is 2.5% which is pretty bad

 

I just want the other variant to be viable instead of having one weapons that completely outshines other weapons of its category.

[Cranial_Enigma]

Aren't you the one who suggested they give the Brakk a high proc chance yet low crit chance and low pellet count? AKA nerf it into the ground. Quoted you below

 

Yes, that wouldn't nerf it to the ground though, it would fill a different role instead of being all round perfect. It would still have its 5 round clip, its fast reload, its good damage, its high proc chance, and a tight spread. I never specified how much of a nerf to those stats it should get.

 

Would you have been happier if I said they should lower the critical chance to 2.5% and make it so it only had 4 pellets and such so you could quote me on that instead? (Which is completely stupid and over the top nerf.) How many pellets and how the critical chance/damage should be changed to is up to DE and DE alone if they choose that route. So yes you are putting words into my mouth for no reason.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Yes, that wouldn't nerf it to the ground though, it would fill a different role instead of being all round perfect. It would still have its 5 round clip, its fast reload, its good damage, its high proc chance, and a tight spread. I never specified how much of a nerf to those stats it should get.

 

Would you have been happier if I said they should lower the critical chance to 2.5% and make it so it only had 4 pellets and such so you could quote me on that instead? (Which is completely stupid and over the top nerf.) How many pellets and how the critical chance/damage should be changed to is up to DE and DE alone if they choose that route. So yes you are putting words into my mouth for no reason.

 

I didn't put words in your mouth. If you don't want to be misunderstood learn to better word what you're saying. It is easier to just buff the Bronco prime. Balancing the Brakk could be achieved by decreasing its fire rate to Lex-like levels, and adding damage fall-off. 

[Cranial_Enigma]

I didn't put words in your mouth. If you don't want to be misunderstood learn to better word what you're saying. It is easier to just buff the Bronco prime. Balancing the Brakk could be achieved by decreasing its fire rate to Lex-like levels, and adding damage fall-off. 

 

Not going to continue this since you are misinterpreting what I am saying.

 

The fire rate nerf would piss people off more then fix the issue. And the damage fall off would just be evil and people wouldn't use the gun after that. (I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any damage fall off, instead there should be increased spread the further the pellets go from the gun).

[Zyrusticae]

I completely disagree. At least with that one OP weapon ALL weapons are usable. Nerfing it into the ground means that it is worthless. As I said before, the Brakk's existence doesn't change how much damage your weapons are doing. It just makes them look worse IN COMPARISON. Nerfing the Brakk does nothing but make the other weapons look nicer in a lineup. 

 

Your idea is terrible. Nerfing something to make other things LOOK better is never the solution. If there is truly something wrong with the other weapons that make them worthless (not just in comparison to the Brakk) then they should be BUFFED. If they aren't actually worthless your argument goes out the window and we get into a different discussion. 

 

To take the face away:

Let's say we have 10 X's, of those X's all 10 are valid but 1 is [WORD INDICATING SUPERIORITY I.E- FASTER, STRONGER, ETC] than the others. Using your method we take those 10 perfectly valid X's and remove one of them from validity. Now we are left with 9 valid X's, and one invalid X.

 

Swap the 'X' with things like car, restaurants, etc. 

Besides the fact that you're making the assumption that the only way for them to go is to nerf it into uselessness (which is not an assertion that I will ever agree with), there's also the fact that it is a LOT more work to buff nine other weapons than it is to nerf one single weapon. 

 

If there is an outlier, that outlier should be brought in line. It's really that simple. There's nothing to discuss here, the numbers speak for themselves. 

[Nagisawa]

You're mad cuz you aint got no Brakk

I've been saying that about those people wanting to nerf the Strun Wraith.  And it happened.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Besides the fact that you're making the assumption that the only way for them to go is to nerf it into uselessness (which is not an assertion that I will ever agree with), there's also the fact that it is a LOT more work to buff nine other weapons than it is to nerf one single weapon. 

 

If there is an outlier, that outlier should be brought in line. It's really that simple. There's nothing to discuss here, the numbers speak for themselves. 

 

It is less work, but the end result is (apparently) unsatisfactory as far as a large portion of people in this thread feel. If you guys feel that the other weapons are worthless, nerfing the Brakk doesn't change those other weapons. The BETTER choice would be to go through the extra work needed to bring all weapons to a usable state (taking the tier system into consideration). If the Brakk is STILL too good it could then be brought down to a level that is both balanced and indicative of whatever tier DE wanted it to fall into.

 

I didn't make an assumption, I based my statements off the claims of those in this thread.

[KittyDarkling]

WAITING ON DETRON WHERE DID ALL THAT HYPE FOR IT GO?!?!?!?

 

    Did you see the new white coated Corpus in Jupiter? ;D

 

Yeah it looks like the Detron is an electric Brakk